[MERGED]--Room inside Kaba is a forbidden.Why? - Pict page 43

mindpropeller

1680# gunblade712

Muhammad s.a.w. was a Messenger AND a Teacher, brother. The same goesfor the previous prophets that came before him. He brought the messageAND teaches them how to understand the message. He teaches them notonly with words, but with actions.

Muhamad had never teach any kind of religious rituals to the people. He was not a religious teacher. He was the messenger of God. His mission was to warn people the danger of religions. He asked them to discard  religions and start serving God in appropriate manner. We must always remember that the only method of communication between God and Muhamad was the Quran. Everything that God wanted him to know and to do, was recorded in the Quran. It was the same Quran that we have today. As far as we all know the Quran teaches nothing on ritualistic conducts? Not even the solat is taught in the Quran. But yet, Muslims today seem to have endless list of rites in the name of God and His prophet. How could that be?

Yes, the prophets are equal. We do not deny that. I don't want to goand discuss about the equality of the prophets (this is totally adifferent discussion altogether), but I would rather want to discussthe point in which you are presenting.

You are saying that due to the fact that all prophets are equal, so allof their message are the same in totality? Allah s.w.t. says, in theGlorious Quran :

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, butWe substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that AllahHath power over all things? (Al-Baqarah : 106)

The verse clearly says that Allah s.w.t has the right to substitute anyLaws which He had made, and He substitute it with something which ismuch more better.

This shows that Allah s.w.t. Himself has the right to change the Qiblat, am I right?

Yes of course. But unfortunately the Qiblah that you understand is not the same as what I understand. I just can't figure out how you could relate qiblah, masjidilharam and solat when the verses mention nothing about the latest. As far as I understand, the verses enlighten us that believers of God and His prophets shall not worry about any specific qiblah unlike the people of religions who need specific spot of worship. Indeed God has provided believers a better qiblah to focus to, which are, the sanctioned consented decrees (masjidilharam). With this qiblah you don't have to associate God with any spot, any location, any building, any state, any country or whatever. It is a way of life. That is the appropriate means to serve God.

itIS an issue, brother. The scholars across the world (be themanti-hadith or not) have clearly agreed that in order to understand theQuran, you need to master Arabic and the history of the Prophets s.a.w.How can you understand the verse when you do not know what has happen?

Remember our discussion on the alcohol issue? If you do not take theevent which has happened into consideration, you can never understandwhat the Quran is trying to tell you.

I don't buy your idea. The Arabs shall have no problem mastering their own language and learning the history of the prophet. But they don't make better Islam than the rest of the world. With the right perspective, a lot of common sense and the keenness to learn, I believe God will help us one way or another if we really look at the Quran for answers.

The alcohol issue? Did you answer my question yet sir?

Yet,the Hadith never contradicts the Quran. Give me just ONE hadith whichcontradicted the Quran, brother, and I would be more than happy toaccept your words. If not, then this is just an allegation which has noproof whatsoever.

Like I say, the contradiction is NOT in the root of the teachings.

Hadith contradicts the Quran. Never you say. That is because you see your religion totally in the perspective of the hadiths. Have you ever try to see your religion in the perspective of the Quran? Try ponder this verses from the Quran."

"The places of worship (common translation for masjid to the religious muslims) belong to God, do not call on anyone else beside God" - 72:18

"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered" - 3:64

There are more verses of the same context. But two would be sufficient for example here. So, do you apply this command of God to call only him and him alone during your worship? No of course. We all know that. Is this kind of disobedient not root enough for you sir?

then tell me, brother, how do you perform your Solat?

My solat? I try my best sir. That is what I can tell you.

mindpropeller

1676# mindpropeller  

boleh saya tanya?

1. agama kamu apa?
2. Jika kamu Islam tapi anti hadis, di sini bukan tempatnya, debatlah di forum agama Islam, berdiskusi di sana sahaja.

berkenaan d ...
Bapa Post at 4-9-2009 16:39

Bapa,

I am a muslim. I find here is the best place for me to share my perspectives on keagamaan, kerohanian and kepercayaan. Is that a problem to you, sir?

Truth.8

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 5-9-2009 02:37
As far as we all know the Quran teaches nothing on ritualisticconducts? Not even the solat is taught in the Quran. But yet, Muslimstoday seem to have endless list of rites in the name of God and Hisprophet. How could that be?

yes true. but why muslims still keeping the pagan arab ritual like circling the object of kaba?? is this muhammad teachings or someone corrupt it???

the Jews never do such ritual.

Truth.8

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 5-9-2009 02:37
Yes of course. But unfortunately the Qiblah that you understand is notthe same as what I understand. I just can't figure out how you couldrelate qiblah, masjidilharam and solat when the verses mention nothingabout the latest. As far as I understand, the verses enlighten us thatbelievers of God and His prophets shall not worry about any specificqiblah unlike the people of religions who need specific spot ofworship. Indeed God has provided believers a better qiblah to focus to,which are, the sanctioned consented decrees (masjidilharam). With thisqiblah you don't have to associate God with any spot, any location, anybuilding, any state, any country or whatever. It is a way of life. Thatis the appropriate means to serve God.

this i agreed because Jesus told his followers not to concern about  the direction of prayer when one of his followers ask shall we pray direct to Jerusalem. Like myself , i pray in direction as the Greatest God is everywhere.....as we do not need system of worship God rather faith is good foundation to build relationship with God

Mindpropeller you are good in debating and brave. People like u should stay here for long . please stay do not leave this forum. ok?

Truth.8

Bapa,

I am a muslim. I find here is the best place for me to share my perspectives on keagamaan, kerohanian and kepercayaan. Is that a problem to you, sir?
mindpropeller Post at 5-9-2009 03:02

yes , please stay here. most of muslims only stay short while because they afraid to  face the truth.

welcome to RSF

wlio_snr

and truth.8 god

still cannot destroy our KAABAH


khar    khar   khar

mindpropeller

yes true. but why muslims still keeping the pagan arab ritual like circling the object of kaba?? is this muhammad teachings or someone corrupt it???

the Jews never do such ritual.
Truth.8 Post at 5-9-2009 11:05

Muhamad did not teach anything beyond the Quran. As simple as that. The rest we have to use our brain to find out.

mindpropeller

Post Last Edit by Truth.8 at 5-9-2009 11:11



this i agreed because Jesus told his followers not to concern about  the direction of prayer when one of his followers ask shall we pray direct to Je ...
Truth.8 Post at 5-9-2009 11:09

I would like to share some verses of the Quran with you, sir.

"And they say: None shall enter the paradise excepthe who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring yourproof if you are truthful. Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah andhe is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and thereis no fear for him nor shall he grieve. And the Jews say: The Christians do notfollow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything(good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge,like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day ofresurrection in what they differ". - 2:111-113

During the revelation of the Quran, these verses must be news to the Muslim Arabs. But now, it is clear that even the Muslims themselves behaving like the Jews and the Christians. It is just history repeating itself.

mindpropeller

yes , please stay here. most of muslims only stay short while because they afraid to  face the truth.

welcome to RSF
Truth.8 Post at 5-9-2009 11:13

Thank you sir. May peace be upon you.

pendakwa

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 5-9-2009 02:37

1680# gunblade712



Muhamad had never teach any kind of religious rituals to the people. He was not a religious teacher. He was the messenge ...
mindpropeller Post at 5-9-2009 01:40

There's a lot of word called religion being quoted by God in the Quran.
mp, it's not that the rest of the brothers here are speechless, but it's unbelievable that we have you here.

wlio_snr

There's a lot of word called religion being quoted by God in the Quran.
mp, it's not that the rest of the brothers here are speechless, but it's unbelievable that we have you here.
pendakwa Post at 5-9-2009 15:57

The best things is that once we identify these people, we make salam and leave immediately, avoid any conversation because they only put doubts into the people's minds. You will never find one making an enlightening comment.

Truth.8

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 5-9-2009 14:05



I would like to share some verses of the Quran with you, sir.

"And they say: None shall enter the paradise excepthe who is a Jew or a Christ ...
mindpropeller Post at 5-9-2009 13:13

So, Jesus was right  in the verses "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father" John 4:21

meaning all those vain worshipped like going to mecca and praying towards jerusalem are not important in eyes of God.

I was right too on this issue.

Wonder why muslims need all those mambo jumbo holy ceremony.

wlio_snr

ding dong

your answer wrong again

please come back again later


khar    khar   khar

Truth.8

The best things is that once we identify these people, we make salam and leave immediately, avoid any conversation because they only put doubts into the people's minds. You will never find one mak ...
wlio_snr Post at 5-9-2009 16:24

i never think such because when our faith is strong, it never shake . one example, i visit all pagan city in india ,entering temples and etc.....does my faith shake? never

maybe u afraid that truth will exposed....u such loser.

as sayings goes " bila datang kebenaran, maka hilang lah kekufuran'

Truth.8

ding dong

your answer wrong again

please come back again later


khar    khar   khar
wlio_snr Post at 5-9-2009 16:43

as sayings goes " bila datang kebenaran, maka hilang lah kekufuran'

wlio_snr

and ISLAM will never die till the end of the world


khar   khar   kharr

mindpropeller

There's a lot of word called religion being quoted by God in the Quran.
mp, it's not that the rest of the brothers here are speechless, but it's unbelievable that we have you here.
pendakwa Post at 5-9-2009 15:57

The word deen or ad-deen does not mean religion. It means way of life. And what's wrong with me being here, sir?

pendakwa

The word deen or ad-deen does not mean religion. It means way of life. And what's wrong with me being here, sir?
mindpropeller Post at 5-9-2009 16:56

There's nothing wrong of you being here, it;s just off topic i guess.
If deen or ad deen means the way of life in arabic, what does the meaning of  religion in arabic?

mindpropeller

So, Jesus was right  in the verses "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father" John 4:21

mea ...
Truth.8 Post at 5-9-2009 16:41

Every prophet of the Book was the messenger of God. They were all men of virtue who had been entrusted by God to convey His Message for the benefit of mankind. They conveyed only what God had asked them to convey. Nothing more, nothing less. But let us look back into the verses of the Quran I have quoted earlier and ponder deeply at the words I highlighted.

"Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes wereJews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who ismore unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah?And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do. This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what theyearned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be calledupon to answer for what they did". - 2:140-141

Maybe we should ask ourselves, do we play any part in concealing the truth regarding the prophets of God?

mindpropeller

There's nothing wrong of you being here, it;s just off topic i guess.
If deen or ad deen means the way of life in arabic, what does the meaning of  religion in arabic?
pendakwa Post at 5-9-2009 17:04

The arabic word for religion is shi'ah. Below is a sample verse to enlighten this

The translation supposed to be:

Surely they who changed their way of life into religion, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.
- 6:159

Transliteration:

"Inna allatheenafarraqoo deenahum wakanoo shiyaAAan lasta minhum fee shay-in innamaamruhum ila Allahi thumma yunabbi-ohum bima kanooyafAAaloona"

The standard translation with"deen" as "religion"

"Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did".