[MERGED]--Room inside Kaba is a forbidden.Why? - Pict page 43

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 21-11-2003 03:34 PM:
Kennkid and rest of his gengs running again.

My question still stand:

I need pics as an evidences inside the room at Ka'ba.

If u Muslims can produce Pics inside that room, I will d ...

'an evidences' (wrong English again).

I told you to get all the 'an evidences' yourself since you are the one who is accusing. Accusers should provide the evidence to authenticate your accusation. So, get your evidence by employing the tactic I taught you (by bluffing to be a Muslim in Mecca and take all the pictures you want) and show it to the whole world.

Am I running??? I'm giving you all the loopholes and you accuse me of running. How strange a person you are.

You are accusing us without evidence. The evidence should be provided by you.

If you accuse a thief of stealing, do you provide the evidence first or would the thief have to provide the evidence based on nothing but 'saliva evidence' (cakap kosong) by the accuser?  See, how christians think?  :bg::stp:

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 21-11-2003 at 04:37 PM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by KENNKID at 21-11-2003 04:27 PM:
'an evidences' (wrong English again).

I told you to get all the 'an evidences' yourself since you are the one who is accusing. Accusers should provide the evidence to  ...

never mind about wrong english.

thanks for pushing my thread. keep to topic, ok.

got to go now. wanna to watch Al- Kulliah in TV3, now at 435.

saja nak tengok kawan kita berdebat.

happy hunting

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2003-11-21 04:35 PM:

never mind about wrong english.

thanks for pushing my thread. keep to topic, ok.

got to go now. wanna to watch Al- Kulliah in TV3, now at 435.

saja nak tengok kawan kita berdebat ...

Thats the end of my pushing this thread. I have given my summation.:2cool:

But you have yet to give any answers. You haven't got teh answers yourself my fren!

peace

Originally posted by SFE talk at 2003-11-21 04:40 PM:
But you have yet to give any answers. You haven't got teh answers yourself my fren!

peace

No answers required to accusations that are not accompanied by concrete  evidence. Bring in the evidence (the non - mere saliva ones) and I will gladly answer. Case dismissed.

Evidence is obvious, insides of kaaba not open to public viuew, not even photographs. What is there to hide?

Evidence is obvious, insides of kaaba not open to public viuew, not even photographs. What is there to hide?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SFE talk at 21-11-2003 04:58 PM:
Evidence is obvious, insides of kaaba not open to public viuew, not even photographs. What is there to hide?

yup, i agreed with SFE. Why must hide from public viewing??? if nothing to hide exposed it.

When earlier Christian and Jews facing Jerusalem the temple, they did not hide anything. Because we know we worshpping the  true God of Adam, Abraham right up to Jesus.

Why Muslims need to hide for public viewing????
:stp::re:

Truth.8

Allah - the Moon God
The Archeology of The Middle East
The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

Archeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites."
In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon-god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.
A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."
During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 22-11-2003 at 06:53 PM ]

Truth.8

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.
This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.
The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al-ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."
This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.
In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.
Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?


CONCLUSION
The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.
The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm

Truth.8

Just like Tuhan is the Malay word for God, Illah is the Arabic/Aramaic word for God.

The name of THE God is Allah - The God. The one and only - The Unseen. The Creator. When the ancestors of the present day Muslim Malays, for example,  were animists, Hindus and Buddhists they also referred to God by using  the Malay word, Tuhan and when they embraced Islam, their true Tuhan is Allah.

When the Arabs were pagans (before Islam came in its complete and final sense and essence), their illah  were so many types of pagan dieties. But the true illah, as revealed in the Qur'an is THE GOD - ALLAH. All the other illah has become obsolete, dismissed, annulled, just like Christianity and Judaism is obsolete, dismissed, annulled by God Almighty.:2cool:
________________________

The concept of a Supreme Creator of the universe has been something, which the western world has been trying to prove or refute now for thousands of years. However, only in the past 200 years have the creme de la creme of western intellectuals, come to the conclusion that a God/Creator of the universe is and has been a figment of man's imagination. This conclusion was formed as a reaction to the beliefs and practices of Christianity, which was a major force in European life at this time.

Beliefs such as that of the Trinity and the divine nature of Jesus Christ, were so complicated to understand - even for the elite of the church - that eventually the idea of a supreme and perfect creator (which Christianity had distorted) was replaced by many new theories which tried to explain how mankind came about and developed. Many different theories were introduced to the western world, but one common trait, which they all shared, was that there was no Supreme force, which governed the universe.

So where does Islam come into all of this?

Islam is the one way of life, the one religion which until now has not been challenged successfully by any philosopher, atheist or intellectual. Rather the case has been the exact opposite and there have been thousands, if not millions, of so-called 'atheists' who have reverted back to Islam.

So how does Islam explain the existence of this Supreme Creator?

The Natural Way

Allah says in his final revelation, the Qur'an:

"Therefore turn your face steadfastly towards the true faith, away from all that which is false, in accordance with the Pure nature with which Allah has Created people. Let there be no altering in the laws of Allah's Creation. This is surely the true religion, but most people do not know it."
(Surah Ar-Rum 30:30)

The pure nature which is mentioned in this verse is probably the most convincing proof of a divine creator to any sincere seeker of truth. Which person can deny (atheist or otherwise) that when he/she is in dire trouble, when life is about to be taken away from them, when the pressures are unbearable - that then do they turn to that force above the skies. How many times are we confronted by a scenario in which the words: "lease God help me, and I promise that I will always pray to you and be good." roll off our tongues with such sincerity? Every time something bad happens, words such as these come out of the people's mouths. Yet as soon as the harm is removed the very same people beseeching the help of their creator, turn away:

"And whatever of blessings and good things you have, it is from Allah. Then, when harm touches you, unto him you cry aloud for help. Yet no sooner does he remove your ills then some of you set up partners to their lord."
(Surah An-Nahl 16:53-54)

This pure nature which every human is born with is known as the Fitrah in the Arabic language. Every human being, man or woman is born with this natural instinct to recognise the Creator and turn to Him. This is proved by the hadeeth  of the last messenger to mankind Muhammad (s.a.w.) who said:

"Every child is born upon the pure fitra, it is only his parents that later turn him into a Jew, a Christian, or a Magian. "

:eek:http://islamcanada.com/god.htm

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 23-11-2003 at 11:52 AM ]

Therefore, the picture of the moon deity statues pasted by .8 are nothing but the 'illah' or 'god' of the pagan Arabs before Islam was revealed. When Islam was revealed, the holy prophet was asked   by the angel Gabriel to proclaim and to spread the message of La Ilaha ha Ila Allah (There is no Ilah except Allah)-:eek:http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fund ... ilahaillaAllah.html:eek:that Allah is the one and only unseen, true, almighty creator - who also created the stones (that pagan arabs used to carve their idols) and human beings and the whole of creation.

Yes, when Islam came, all the idols were destroyed. No more worshipped for they do not deserve to be worshipped.

Unlike some so-called self-proclaimed 'monotheists', they say that they are monotheists, but in practice, they have remained idol worshippers  and pagans and this is their deity, their god.:stp::2cool:


:eek:http://jews-for-allah.org/messia ... bout_crucifixes.htm

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 23-11-2003 at 01:18 PM ]

Truth.8

PHOTOS PLEASE!!!!

Truth.8

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 23-11-2003 02:15 PM:
PHOTOS PLEASE!!!!

Tok Pin

Foto itik si truth ada lah...
hehehehehhehehehehe

Sapa nak layan itik gila cam ko tuh!
hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

WLIO

Originally posted by Tok Pin at 24-11-2003 09:54 AM:

Foto itik si truth ada lah...
hehehehehhehehehehe

Sapa nak layan itik gila cam ko tuh!
hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Betul Tok
Gambar Itik hilang buah ZAKAR adalah...

Truth.8

Originally posted by Tok Pin at 24-11-2003 09:54 AM:

Foto itik si truth ada lah...
hehehehehhehehehehe

Sapa nak layan itik gila cam ko tuh!
hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

BACA INI MR.TOK PIN:

What is inside the Kaba?

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi is the president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA). He had the opportunity to go inside the Kaba in October 1998. In an interview with Sound Vision, he described the following features:

-there are two pillars inside (others report 3 pillars)

-there is a table on the side to put items like perfume

-there are two lantern-type lamps hanging from the ceiling

-the space can accommodate about 50 people

-there are no electric lights inside

-the walls and floors are of marble

-there are no windows inside

-there is only one door

-the upper inside walls of the Kaba were covered with some kind of curtain with the Kalima written on it



But, My question still stand why no pics are allowe to be taken inside that room rather than all those written document???

Why Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi , did not carry his camera and snap few pics inside the room if he claimed that the inside room has lanterns, pillars and all those rubbish execuses.

Sometime is not right in that room. IDOLS OR WHAT????

Truth.8

Originally posted by WLIO at 24-11-2003 09:57 AM:

Betul Tok
Gambar Itik hilang buah ZAKAR adalah...

ORANG NYA SAMA. TOK PIN DAN WILLO SAMA PUNYA OLANG

KALAU DAH AJARAN PALSU....MAKA LAHIRLAH OTAK2 PENIPU

WLIO

ke ke ke kekekekeeeee

ketawa lah aku

khar   khar   khar