Tenaga dalam Atom

Atomic_Omnikid · Post time 20-1-2008 01:53 PM

Originally posted by meitantei at 16-1-2008 23:49

MENGARUT!

Cikgu mana yg ajar ko elektron mengelilingi nukleus ikut arah lawan jam?!?! Kedudukan elektron dlm atom tidak boleh ditentukan dgn jitu disebabkan oleh Heisenberg's Uncertainty P ...

so tak ader arahleh dimana elektron mengelilingi nukleus..macam mana dgn Rotational Operator dlm Pauli Exclusion Principle..konpius sket..

meitantei · Post time 20-1-2008 08:05 PM

erm, aku tak berapa tahu pasal Rotational Operator, tapi Pauli Exclusion Principle mengatakan bahawa, dua electron tak boleh berada pada orbital yg sama kecuali kalau spin electron2 tu bertentangan arah...

Atomic_Omnikid · Post time 20-1-2008 11:13 PM

Originally posted by meitantei at 20-1-2008 20:05
erm, aku tak berapa tahu pasal Rotational Operator, tapi Pauli Exclusion Principle mengatakan bahawa, dua electron tak boleh berada pada orbital yg sama kecuali kalau spin electron2 tu bertentang ...

yang bertentangan arah,maknanya satu ikut clockwise..yang other tuh anti-clockwise ker..

aku_EnSeM · Post time 21-1-2008 11:03 AM

ak x waper dpt bygkn spin ni, tapi rsenye bukan spin cmtu kot...

meitantei · Post time 21-1-2008 08:46 PM

Yep, 'spin' dlm Quantum Mechanics memang berbeza drp 'spin' dlm Classical Physics. Memang susah nak dibayangkan.

Dlm satu orbital yg mengandungi dua electron (katakan elektron A dan B), spin electron A is opposite the spin of electron B. Kita tak boleh kata spin tu 'clockwise' atau 'anti clockwise' sebab kita perlu satu frame of reference utk kata sesuatu itu pusing clockwise atau anti clockwise.

mbhcsf · Post time 23-1-2008 12:48 AM

why they said that the usual law / rule of physics won't be applied when discussing about the "environ" of the sub atomic particles?

what makes it that way?

any comment on that?

and about that PET scan thingy, the said if that "substance" is finished you need to get that " thingy" - i pun tak tahu apa tu "thingy" - but that "thingy" containing very short half life then must be fast enough to be fixed into that PET SCAN.

mbhcsf · Post time 23-1-2008 12:51 AM

U dah belajq ker yg Electron excitation energy tu?
yg Afbau , Pauli Principle?

nak revise sikit boleh? i dah lupa...heheheheh....

oh you know somethinh yg spin spin concept of the electrons ni penting jugak untuk predict the polarity ( polar or non - polar) of a particluar atam like oxygen etc...and this would be i think in the chapter of - predicting the shape of an atom / molecules you know that bipolar pyramidal, bent etc...ni one of thebestest topics in physical chemistry.

meitantei · Post time 23-1-2008 02:05 AM

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 23-1-2008 12:48 AM
why they said that the usual law / rule of physics won't be applied when discussing about the "environ" of the sub atomic particles?

what makes it that way?

any comment on that?

Classical Physics tak dapat nak explain byk perkara dlm dunia dlm atom. Cthnya, mengikut teori Maxwell, accelerating charges will radiate electromagenetic (em) waves. Kalau electron mengelilingi nucleus dlm atom sebagaimana bumi mengelilingi matahari, ini bermakna electron itu akan emit em waves. Apabila electron emit em waves, electron itu akan beransur-ansur kehilangan tenaga dan akhirnya jatuh ke pusat atom. Ini bermakna tiada atom dlm dunia ni yg stabil.

Walaubagaimanapun, terdapat atom2 dlm dunia ni kebanyakannya stabil. Jadi ahli2 fizik telah mencipta teori baru utk menjelaskan fenomena yg berlaku dlm atom ini. Teori ni la yg dinamakan Quantum Physics. Quantum Physics telah berjaya menjelaskan banyak fenomena2 yg berlaku dlm atom dgn tepat. Sebenarnya, kita boleh guna Quantum Physics utk menyelesaikan masalah classical physics. Cthnya, selain menggunakan Newton's laws, kita boleh menggunakan formula2 Quantum Physics utk meramalkan di mana sebuah bola yg dilontarkan ke langit akan jatuh (jika kelajuan serta sudut lontaran tersebut diketahui). Kita akan dpt jawapan yg sama, cuma formula2 Quantum Physics lebih complicated dan penjelasannya lebih rumit.

Buat masa skrg ni, ahli2 fizik dpt menjelaskan behavior electrons yg mengelilingi nucleus dgn kejituan yg mengagumkan. Walaubagaimanapun, behavior of quarks dlm nucleus masih ada byk misteri. Cthnya, ahli fizik masih tidak pernah jumpa satu quark bersendirian dlm eksperimen2 yg dikendali. Quark sentiasa berpasangan atau bertigaan. Mungkin tenaga yg diperlukan utk memisahkan dua quark sangat tinggi, tapi mungkin ada penjelasan yg lebih baik.

As for why the laws of physics in atoms is significantly different from everyday physics, jawapan aku senang jer. The laws of Quantum Physics IS the laws of everyday physics. Cuma pada macroscopic scales, effectnya kecil, jadi guna simple classical physics equation jer pun dah boleh selesaikan masalah.

and about that PET scan thingy, the said if that "substance" isfinished you need to get that " thingy" - i pun tak tahu apa tu"thingy" - but that "thingy" containing very short half life then mustbe fast enough to be fixed into that PET SCAN.

Utk PET ni, ko pi la Wiki baca sendiri. Situ ada penerangannya.

mbhcsf · Post time 24-1-2008 06:05 PM

okay, with all this extensive research conducted in the world of sub atomic particles, what would you think they capable of harvesting?

what would be the application?

meitantei · Post time 24-1-2008 10:02 PM

Application akan datang kemudian. Pada mula2 discovery of teori quantum, org tak dapat lihat pun ape kejadahnyer kegunaan teori nih. Dahla explain benda yg tak bleh nampak! Tapi lepas tu application berlambak-lambak dtg. Cthnya superconductivity liquid helium dsb...

Pendek kata, discover dulu, application kemudian pun takper.

Kenapa nak wat semua discovery ni senang jer. Para saintis dimotivasikan oleh kedahagaan mereka utk memahami fenomena2 yg berlaku kat dunia ni. Kalau diorang tak curious, maka takkan majulah kita....

mbhcsf · Post time 25-1-2008 12:06 AM

hmm superconductivity well... the challenge with this phenomena of superconductivity is basically to do with the practicality, kan?
so far what is the highest temp being recorded for superconductivity to occur?
it's always below 0 degree kan? jap berapa Kelvin?

oh my God i dah lupa conversion Kelvin to Celcius....

meitantei · Post time 25-1-2008 12:19 AM

duh, super conductivity refer pada fenomena dimana sesuatu material tu conduct electricity dgn zero resistance apabila disejukkan di bawah satu suhu yg dipanggil critical temperature. Critical temperature tu bergantung pada material tu sendiri. Lain material, lain critical temperature la. Setakat ni, belum jumpa lagi material yg boleh superconduct pada suhu dibawah 0 degree celcius. Suhu paling tinggi pun lebih kurang 90K jer utk 'high-temperature superconductors'.

0 darjah celcius = 273.15K exactly

mbhcsf · Post time 25-1-2008 12:54 AM

oops..yeah that critical point, you got me on that one heheheh...i just wondering what how would the plant will look like aah? in supplyi..ng those zero resistance le say electricity power plant...would that caused too much or vice versa.Well que sera sera....

oh i actually mixed up jugak just now between magnelev and thsi superconductivity i dunno why may be something to do with zero resistance ability ....

eh by the by when talking about this things, kan magnetism , currenbt etc, why is it among engineer or physicist , they really admired the Tesla guy compared to that Einstein fella?

meitantei · Post time 25-1-2008 10:13 PM

Tesla invent radio. Einstein invent General Relativity. General Relativity takde byk gunanya dlm engineering.

cucusaddam · Post time 27-1-2008 11:05 PM

sapa ada tgk rencana Naked Scient kat tv 1....pasal kekuatan bom....mula mula TNT kemudian otom...then nuklear...then hydrogen bom..last sekali bom 'antijisim'yg mana kekuatannya 1000x lebih kuat dari bom nydrogen ini....

tak faham sangat macam mana bom 'antijisim' ni berfungsi...

meitantei · Post time 28-1-2008 02:28 AM

Antimatter... adalah lawan matter. Kalau Antimatter jumpa matter, kedua-duanya akan annihilate dan jadi pure energy dlm bentuk photons (em waves). Tenaga, E yg dibebaskan = sqrt(m^2c^4 + p^2c^2). Besar tenaganya tuh....

cucusaddam · Post time 28-1-2008 11:38 PM

ya la jisim dia seberat pin klip kertas tapi boleh mendatangkan kemusnahan yg besar...para saintis meramalkan ini akan menjadi kenyataan tak lama lagi...teruja aku dengar nya

Atomic_Omnikid · Post time 2-2-2008 02:49 PM

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 23-1-2008 00:51
U dah belajq ker yg Electron excitation energy tu?
yg Afbau , Pauli Principle?

nak revise sikit boleh? i dah lupa...heheheheh....

oh you know somethinh yg spin spin concept of the electro ...

yep..superficially only,kat physical chemistry stpm..

aufbau-electron akan occupy lowest energy orbital (subshell) 1st - s,p,d,f
Pauli exclusion principle-2 electron may occupy same orbital but must different spin,reason:stability,something to do with magnetic charge
Hund's Rule -a atom tend to as many unpaired electron as possible.

Atomic_Omnikid · Post time 2-2-2008 02:59 PM

Originally posted by cucusaddam at 28-1-2008 23:38
ya la jisim dia seberat pin klip kertas tapi boleh mendatangkan kemusnahan yg besar...para saintis meramalkan ini akan menjadi kenyataan tak lama lagi...teruja aku dengar nya

mmg payah kalo nak kumpul jisim antimatter seberat seklip kertas,energy yg required untuk produce lebih tinggi kalo dibandingkan energy yg akan dikeluarkan...kalo tak silap,ader problem ngan entropy of the universe about antimatter being the ultimate source of energy..

Dulu terjumpa link nie pasal buku Dan Brown,Angels and Demons yang ader citer pasal CERN and antimatter nie..cuba check link nie kenapa antimatter energy nie tak berapa practical in real life..

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html

and nie dier interview dgn scientist CERN about antimatter..
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Spotlight/SpotlightInterview-en.html

[ Last edited by Atomic_Omnikid at 2-2-2008 03:04 PM ]