[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Debmey

Here's logical question.

If those verses in the hadiths are wrong, why are they still there? Why didn't generations of Muslims delete it?

You see, Muslims are stuck on this issue because on teh one hand, they can't discount al Bukhari but at the same time, they are embarassed of Mo's bahvior as recorded in these hadoiths.

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-11-2005 09:54 PM
Here's logical question.

If those verses in the hadiths are wrong, why are they still there? Why didn't generations of Muslims delete it?

You see, Muslims are stuck on this issue because on  ...

Because we know the difference between sunnah and narrations - and we have good intentions. We also trust the integrity and excellence of character of God's final prophet (Al Amin - The Trustworthy).  You are the opposite.

[ Last edited by KENNKID at 16-11-2005 10:04 PM ]

Debmey

Really? So why are the false narrations still there if they are false? That is the question you will never answer.
The truth is, the narrations are part of the sunnah. You can't fool anyone here with such cheap lies.

Mo did have sex with a 9 year old Aisha. If you are ashamed of such behavior, perhaps you may want to consider quitting Islam.

[ Last edited by Debmey at 16-11-2005 11:40 PM ]

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-11-2005 09:54 PM
Here's logical question.If those verses in the hadiths are wrong, why are they still there? Why didn't generations of Muslims delete it?

First of all the marriage of Ayeshah to the prophet is not Sunnah as it was reported only as a historical personal event. Do you understand whta means Sunnah? Morever Bukhari  in his lifetime work as a author/recorder had heard from over 1,000 men, and learned over 600,000 traditions, true and false. That's right! TRUE OR FALSE. Remember that? Although we do no know his affiliation, him being Iranian, most Sunni Moslems accept his works, including the narratives of the Iraqi father and son team of Urwa and Hisham.

Any inaccuracies [if any] DO NOT come from Bukhari, as Bukhari records and not reports them.Why do you find that so hard to understand? So what is there to delete? As after all what that is finally recorded in Bukhari is a compilation of narratives that are common acceptances; just like you have in canon form. The Gospels are factually the hadiths and Sunnah of prophet Jesus all rolled into one. So why are you not making a mountain out of that mole-hill?

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-11-2005 09:54 PM
You see, Muslims are stuck on this issue because on teh one hand, they can't discount al Bukhari but at the same time, they are embarassed of Mo's bahvior as recorded in these hadoiths.

If there ever was a trophy for the Singaporean Crap Master Award Of The Year, you'd win that trophy with flying colors because you're very talented when it comes to the subject of hardcore crap. LOL. Again Bukhari is and never will be subjected to scrutiny as Bukhari never did any narrative reportings in his lifetime. So why should we ever doubt him? If doubt should be brought into play, it should only be shouldered upon the reporting narrators. You understand?

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-11-2005 11:39 PM
Really? So why are the false narrations still there if they are false? That is the question you will never answer. The truth is, the narrations are part of the sunnah. You can't fool anyone here with such cheap lies.

No narrations are ever "false". Problems only arise when there are no supporting chain narration coming from either a localised reportings or generalised view. So having to depend on just one source narrative supresses autheticity and creates doubt although doubt might not exist. How can the marriage of Ayeshah be seen as Sunnah? Is there any recorded Hadiths by the prophet asking the Ummah to wed 9 year old girls? Are there reports of all of his companions marrying girls the age of Ayeshah? Has the prophet continued marrying gilrs the age of Ayeshah after her? C'mon my fren, stop the crap. Stop the spamming. Stop the lies. You're making a fool of yourself with your cheapskate lies and scenarios that don't work.

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-11-2005 11:39 PM
Mo did have sex with a 9 year old Aisha. If you are ashamed of such behavior, perhaps you may want to consider quitting Islam.

First of all the prophet was married to Ayeshah. Don't make it sound so dirty by saying that the prophet "had sex with a 9 year old Ayeshah". I know you hate prophet Mohammad because he represents things that you can't ever be. You hate him because he had taken the thunder from your faith and Book. You know what hate does? Hate spawns resilience. Hate fuels inner strength and subsequently greater faith. I'm very sure my Father will reward you accordingly through fate or luck.

Come on Debmey, by taking the age of engagement of Ayeshah to be 6 and the marriage age to be 9, as reported by Hisham and Urwa, please tell me the age of Ayeshah when her father, Abu Bakr engaged her off to Jubair ibn Mut'am and the age when the contract was broken?

Going by my calculations from  the Hisham 6 and 9 age  narratives, and by back tracking, Ayeshah had to be 3 when the marriage contract was broken off with Jubair. So that means Abu Bakr had betrothed an un-named Ayeshah still in her mother's womb and not knowing the gender of the unborn Ayeshah! Does this make any sense to you? I hope you will give me an intelligent answer here. I know how you hate it and wouldn't dream of having all of us here think that you're someone who doesn't know how to calculate, thus making you look kinda stoopid. Right am I?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Really? Its funny how you choose to lie so blatantly.

Sunnah means the deeds, sayings and approvals of Muhammad. Having sex with a 9 year old aisha was a deed of Mo. Thats why it was recorded and followed by Muslims throughout history.

No amount of twisting and turning and nonsensical hair splitting can change that fact. Had muslims considered Bukhari inaccurate, they would have deleted all those hadiths long ago.

cheers

Originally posted by Debmey at 17-11-2005 06:24 AM
Really? Its funny how you choose to lie so blatantly.

Sunnah means the deeds, sayings and approvals of Muhammad. Having sex with a 9 year old aisha was a deed of Mo. Thats why it was recorded and followed.....

Marrying a 9 yr old girl is not sunnah. The fact that it was not practised by Muslims show that it is not sunnah and that Ayeshah was not 9 yrs old at the time of the consummation of her marrriage as narrated. Living practices speak better than narrations. Examples are set and followed from living practices not from narrations.  

Debmey: No amount of twisting and turning and nonsensical hair splitting can change that fact. Had muslims considered Bukhari inaccurate, they would have deleted all those hadiths long ago.

The only people famous for doctoring & deleting their own religious books are Christians

Debmey

Marrying a 9 yr old girl is not sunnah. The fact that it was not practised by Muslims show that it is not sunnah and that Ayeshah was not 9 yrs old at the time of the consummation of her marrriage as narrated. Living practices speak better than narrations. Examples are set and followed from living practices not from narrations.  

Wrong, he married her when she was only 6, not 9.
So you do admit child sex. Its was the living practrice of Mo as recorded in Al Bukhari and never rejected by Muslims.





[quote]
The only people famous for doctoring & deleting their own religious books are Christians

Originally posted by Debmey at 17-11-2005 03:49 PM

Wrong, he married her when she was only 6, not 9.
So you do admit child sex. Its was the living practrice of Mo as recorded in Al Bukhari and never rejected by Muslims.

Meaning to ...

You have difficulty in comprehending & understanding  what people say. You also have a flawed understanding of what consummation, sunnah, narration and corruption mean.

Debmey

Al Bukhari clearly stated many times that Mo married Aisha when she was only 6 and consumated the married when she was only 9 years old.

Originally posted by Debmey at 18-11-2005 11:16 AM
Al Bukhari clearly stated many times that Mo married Aisha when she was only 6 and consumated the married when she was only 9 years old.

Did Bukhari live during the time of the prophet?

Debmey

Oh I see, all the hadiths are in doubt then. Classical Islam don't think so.

Is the Quran around during the time of Mohamed? Nope.

Was Mo around during teh time of Jesus? Nope.

Was Mo around during the time of Moses, David, Abraham, Isaac etc? Nope.

Originally posted by Debmey at 18-11-2005 10:06 PM
Oh I see, all the hadiths are in doubt then. Classical Islam don't think so.

Is the Quran around during the time of Mohamed? Nope.

Was Mo around during teh time of Jesus? Nope.

Was Mo aro ...

No, I didnt say that. You still cannot differentiate between a  narration of the sunnah and the sunnah itself.

In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them.

The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah.

The sunnah, apart from obtainable from the written hadith are also obtainable through tradition, practiced  from one generation to another.

It is from the practices of the holy prophet and his companions who lived during his lieftime  that matters like solat, fasting, zakat, haj and even the memorization by heart of the Qur'an are known by the Muslims of today and in the future. These were the practices of the holy prophet from whom his companions had a hands on training & experience & then conveyed to be followed and practiced by Muslims from the earliest generations to the next. They witnessed themselves what the prophet practiced and they were taught by the prophet. .

The supposed age of lady Ayesha (as written by the narrators centuries later)  is not a sunnah because no Muslim during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad or later put into practice such thing as marrying a six or a nine year  old girl. There is also no record whatsoever to even suggest that the holy prophet recommended or encouraged such a practice. The fact that it is not a Muslim practice shows that it was not the practice of the holy prophet.

Of course the accusation by Christians about paedophilia is totally absurd because for argument purposes a legalized marriage cannot be termed as paedophila, as per the paedophiliac practices of mostly western men and women (from the christian culture) or as per the sexual child abuses by the ministers and clergies of the christian churches of yesteryears and today and tomorrow. The accusation is made because of the Christians' own embarrasment of the huge number of paedophiles among them and to divert the attention of Christians..



[ Last edited by KENNKID at 21-11-2005 08:59 AM ]

Fuzzman

Way ta go Kennkid. That's a very strong piece of writing you got going there, with regards to case characterization for the understanding of the Sunnah-Hadith differential that has undoubtly eluded poor miserable Debmey. I'm with you on all counts in what you wrote and by observation they remain very well word placed in content.

Debmey [as usual] has turned this thread into another 2:23 haunting when he cannot move beyond the two Bukhari narratives he got for defence, while he tries to feed us with the forced view that Bukhari "knows not what he writes". What Debmey has failed tested-ly again and again in understanding is the fact that Bukhari records and not reports the Ayeshah age narratives. If any character assasination is to be forwarded, he should have done it towards Hisham and Urwa, for they reported the age narratives from Iraq meant for Iraqi traditions. Those narratives then had found their way towards Bukhari during the course of his recording works. Sonny~~ nailed Debmey with the spammer tag and I agee with Sonny~~ for his simplistic yet seriously direct outlook of Debmey's sojourn in this thread. DEBMEY'S FREAKIN LOST IN THE WILDERNESS!

Until now, neither Debmey nor Heckler want to get into doing the math ding-dong of the timeline of events from Jubair to Mohammad, because if they did they would know that there exists many difficulties in the age progession that starts off with the engagement and break-off of the earlier engagement to Jubair ibn Mut'am.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Ahahahahah.... even up till now, Fuzzman cannot tell us that Al Bukhari's account was wrong about Mo marrying Aisha at 6 and having sex with her at 9 years old.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
            "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.  Hisham said:  "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""


Bukhari vol. 7, #88:
            "Narrated Urwa:  "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Originally posted by Debmey at 22-11-2005 11:24 PM
Ahahahahah.... even up till now, Fuzzman cannot tell us that Al Bukhari's account was wrong about Mo marrying Aisha at 6 and having sex with her at 9 years old.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
       ...

Which one holds water Debmey? Narrations (either written or passed verbally  from one narrator to another centuries later) OR  living examples....practised  from the time of the prophet by the prophet himself, his companions and the followers of his companions from one generation to another until today?

The solat, the hajj, the zakat, the memorization of the Qur'an by heart, the shahadah etc  are all inherited from the prophet from the time of the prophet - and they have lasted  until today & will continue to last as long as there are Muslims.

No  practice of marrying a six year old or nine year old girl have been passed from the Muslim generation then, to the Muslim generation of yesterday, today or tomorrow.

It cannot be his sunnah.   




And....for argument sake... let me ask you something Debmey - the practice of worshipping Jesus as God  - was it practised by Jesus?  He did not of course.

Was it practised by Moses?

Of course not....

So, who are you following?  

[ Last edited by KENNKID at 23-11-2005 12:45 AM ]

Debmey

So are you saying that Al Bukhari was wrong?

Are you ashamed of Mo's behavior?

[ Last edited by Debmey at 23-11-2005 01:18 AM ]

Originally posted by Debmey at 23-11-2005 01:17 AM
So are you saying that Al Bukhari was wrong?

Are you ashamed of Mo's behavior?

You are so dumb aren't you?

And.. You have not answered my question yet (in red above).

Baiduri Othman

Yes Kennkid! Just pom pom :pom pom: I hope it's working. I want to paste the pom pom emoticon but somehow I received "page cannot be displayed message". How long are we going to have such problems here?

sonny~~

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 22-11-2005 08:03 PM
Way ta go Kennkid. That's a very stronWay ta go Kennkid. That's a very strong piece of writing you got going there, with regards to case characterization for the understanding of the Sunnah-Hadith differential that has undoubtly eluded poor miserable Debmey. I'm with you on all counts in what you wrote and by observation they remain very well word placed in content.

mark u wotever u guys gonna write, DEBMEY gonna sing same ole song

but the song not gonna stretch to accusation that others r spammin since DEBMEY is good ole spammer n heckler himself

n he couldnt sing bout paedophile or molestin coz SUPERDUPER MOD DAR has put his foot down.  uh huh  :solute:

[ Last edited by sonny~~ at 25-11-2005 12:58 PM ]