[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

WonBin

paedophile? Ha ha ha.....what a lame accusation it is....

First of all, since we are currently in Malaysia, I am prefer to speak in Malay....I hope that you can understand Bahasa

Aku sangat suka berbicara dengan mereka dari agama lain. namun aku cukup marah dengan sesetengah daripada mereka kerana secara sengaja ingin menghina Nabi kami, Muhammad SAW.

Semua orang tahu, zaman dahulu adalah biasa bagi kanak2 perempuan berkahwin pada usia yang amat muda kurang 10 tahun. Tidak timbul sebarang masalah dan tiada sebarang isu di sini.

Oleh itu saya tidak faham kenapa anda menuduhnya sebagai paedophile. Yang nyata, anda sengaja menghina Rasul kami.

Debmey

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 25-10-2005 03:03 PM
Okay this one's for you Debmey. Do you hold  Bukhari's narrative of Ayeshah's marriage contract at six and consequent marriage to prophet Mohammad at the ag ...

you mean you don't?

Debmey

Originally posted by Baiduri Othman at 25-10-2005 06:15 PM


So what's wrong with that? It doesn't mean he's a paedophile. If he was a paedophile, he won't wait until the age of 53 to satisfy his abnormal sexual desire. Nope, it's not strong enough.

A lot of wrong in having sex witha 9 year old.
Did he wait till he's 53? Maybe not. The Quran never said he waited until he was 53. Perhaps he did get involved in sex with kids and it was not recorded. The fact that he did makes him a paedophile, regardless of when he started.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 23-10-2005 02:57 AM
What you want Ali Sina to do.. laugh at your silly argument? Its been proven using muslim's own material that Mo was a Pedo.. in the 2nd post in the 1st page of this tread..debate ended there. Fuzzy the DizzyBoy already lost. Your prophet was proven to be a pedophilia.  

Say what? Say what? If Ali Sina dares get his butt into here,laughing would be the last thing on his mind bro. The motherfu-cker would be more worried about wire-transfering payday to me..that's what? Yeah you heard me right the first time. Ali Sina ain't nothing but a motherfu-cker. The fictitious figment of some polemical imagination; this Ali creation. Ali Sina's gonna have a hard time not getting his nose bloody in here because the way I push up my fight here, ain't no way the same as the kind of pu-ssy debate he's got going on his site. Edited all the way. I wanna see him stand hindside on the eye, one on one with me. You dig dawg?

As for the paedo charge this far? Nothing's been proven about anything paedo on the prophet by any hadiths or narratives. So how can you possibly drool on a victory call for Debmey with the 2nd post on the first page? Premature ejaculation is all I can say for that false call bubba? Try harder Mr.Heckling Atheist! LOL.

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 23-10-2005 02:57 AMThe rest is your refusal to accept the islamic sorce.. those hadiths recorded by Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim etc.  Muslims like Imam Bukhari believed in those hadiths and considered as authentic hadith.. which is good enough to judge the acts of Mo.

Did I in any way refuse Hadith sources? Where dawg? If you mosey on up backards into the thread, you'd see that I've matter of factly, made the point that hadiths are intact as recorded by the master recorder. See you've done nothing but injustice to prophet Mohammad by not being able to show that the hadiths recorded prophet Mohammad as being a paedo. The hadiths commonly recorded the betrothal and marriage of Ayeshah to prophet Mohammad. Nothing else. Next time you try forcing an argument but fall short of a premature ejaculation, why not try Viagra to perk you up? LOL.

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 23-10-2005 02:57 AM
Now you wanna redefine the defination of pedophilia so that you can excuse your prophet for screwing a 9 year old child. LOL

Talk about popping the hood on ignorance. Ignorance ain't bliss. Learn the hard way. You gotta pay sometime and that time is due and now. Looks like it is you and a fingerful of your buddies here who are redefining the paedo terminology. Stop bitching off your mouths if you don't do detailed research on the psycho-analysis of the paedophile. You gotta work harder to make the proof of paedo stick.

So let me ask you this question aight? Are you agreeable that Ayeshah was betrothed at the age of 6 and married off at the age of nine? Don't be like Debmey. Show me you have got balls or in more polite language, the bile to say yes if you think that's the truth.If you stay quiet, means you are just as weak as Debmey. That's gonna hurt like mad! Oouuchh!!!  Come on dawg, get on back with an answer aight?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 08:48 PM ]

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-10-2005 02:41 AM
you mean you don't?

Do you or don't you? Ahahahahaa Debmey's peeing in his pants already? You see if you do, then the paedo argument by you will be strengthen by your resolve. If you don't, then it means you just threw out the paedo accusation on prophet Mohammad. By your sick standards you let prophet Mohammad walk free and I will thank you for that.

Do you or don't you?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

There is no reason to doubt Al Bukhari on this episode of Mo's life is there?
You mean you doubt Bukhari's hadith record? Sunni boy denying hadiths Ahahahahahahahaha..............

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-10-2005 06:06 AM
There is no reason to doubt Al Bukhari on this episode of Mo's life is there? You mean you doubt Bukhari's hadith record? Sunni boy denying hadiths Ahahahahahahahaha.

Sorry bubba. I don't take Sunni nor Shia sides in the Ayeshah age issue. As for your ignorance definately ain't bliss. Bukhari was and had been Debmey's sole leverage in the paedo issue. So now for all to see, Debmey has now in the post above, confirmed that Ayeshah was 6 during the betrothal and 9 at the time of marriage. Leverage he is using to stab the paedo tag on prophet Mohammad. What he forgets is that all leverages come with a sting. And this sting has the uncanny ability of coming back atcha when you least expect it.

First things first. All Moslems agree that ahadiths collected by Al-Bukhari were common concensus, irrelevant if they were 50% or even 100% correct. Just as long as they were common consensus. Where there is no clear sight, common indicators were made the Islamic Golden Rule. One agreement to put down the disarray.

Now with the part of Ayeshah, there was no clear indicator except for the Iraqi narratives, none were forthcoming out of Medina. Factually there wasn't even a second following narrative in support of the first coming from Hisham and his pops Urwa. This is the dilemma that has struck at the core of the age assumption of Ayeshah. Why was there never any comments or objections coming out of Arabia at that time with regards to her age? Was it because it never happened as recorded? I leave that to you good readers to decide. Now on with the hard facts.

Debmey, you start eye balling from here on aight!

Ayeshah was said to be betrothed to prophet Mohammad at the age of 6 and married at the age of 9. Can this narrative be held true when Ayeshah was factually earlier already betrothed to Jubair, son of Mut'am ibn 'Adi? Abu Bakr tired to get the marriage going before the flee  into Habshah, on the run from persecution. Mut'am  broke off the marriage contract of Jubair and Ayesha as Mut'am didn't want to have a Moslem outcast as a daughter-in-law. The run into Habshah lasted near 3 years.  It was only after the return to Makkah was Ayeshah betrothed to prophet Mohammad after the marriage broker named Khaulah adviced the prophet to take another wife after Kadijah. It was Khaulah who mentioned the bikr named Ayeshah.

My questions to Debmey is this :-

1. How old was Ayesha when she was betrothed to Jubair son of Mut'am?
2. Khaulah mentioned Ayeshah as "bikr" to the prophet. What means it?

ARI FUZZMAN

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 03:01 AM
Ali Sina ain't nothing but a motherfu-cker. The fictitious figment of some polemical imagination this Ali creation. Ali Sina's gonna have a hard time not getting his nose bloody in here because the way I push up my fight here, ain't no way the same as the kind of pu-ssy debate he's got going on his site. Edited all the way. I wanna see him stand hindside on the eye, one on one wirh me. You dig dawg?

Yo Fuzzy, Ali not going to debate with people who calls him a mother-whatever.. so don't expect Ali to come here to debate with people like you. You could go to faithfreedom.org to debate with him using a new nick.. so he won't know what sort of shumbag you are.

Insulting him is a normal thing for muslims who cannot defend Mohammad. So, Ali is not going to waste his time debating with people who insult him.

If you wanna him to debate with you then you should act like a scholar without insulting him.. and when you start losing your debate with him only then you should start insulting him and show your true color.. just like so many other losers did.. LOL

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 03:01 AM
As for the paedo charge this far? Nothing's been proven about anything paedo on the prophet by any hadiths or narratives .

Thats a laugh.

Its so clearly recored that Mo lusted after a 6 year old and boinked her when she was 9year old. Thats enough to clasify him under pedo.

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 03:01 AM
Did I in any refuse Hadith sources? Where dawg? If you mosey on yp backards into the thread, you'd see that I've matter of factly made the point that hadiths are intact as recorded by the master recorder.

Yeah yeah.. and whats that whining about the isnad transmitter Hisham is not from medina and junk like that?

If you or any muslim accept the hadiths.. that says Aisha was 9years old when Mo comsumated his marriage with her, then thats the material needed to say Mo was a childlover.. a pedo for having sex with a 9year old.

If you deny those hadiths then Mo was not a pedo to you. He is a pedo for those you accept those hadiths.

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 03:01 AM
Looks like it is you and a fingerful of your buddies here who are redefining the paedo terminology.

I don't define the defination of pedophilia. Its already been established. Its a term used for adults who fancy kids sexually. You seem to redifine the meaning of pedophilia as a "homosexual serial rapist".. come on Gump you can't BS like that and get away beating your chest..

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 03:01 AM
So let me ask you this question aight? Are you agreeable that Ayeshah was betrothed at the age of 6 and married off at the age of nine?

The hadiths say a bit differently...

Mo married Aisha when she was 6. Hadiths says Mo wrote marriage contract when Aisha was 6. Aisha only moved to Mo's  harem after he had sex with her when she was 9 years old.. (or could it be 8years 9month islamic lunar calendar)

Consumated the marriage mean completing the marriage by having sex.

One thing is for sure.. Mo is no Al-Insan Al- Kamil for other to imitate. Instead of setting good example for other to follow, Mo follow the practice of the jahiliyyah cultures. Child-marriage is no good.. adult weenie is no place for a 9year old girl.

Fuzzman

A-yo Heckler I read you loud and clear. Man you're still dancing the same old monotonous steps for a different tune. Don't they teach you anything updated no more? If you keep up that way, you won't make your way into the Manhattan Dance Sport Championships! But if you display promising talent maybe you could fit into the Open Amateur Standard. You'll need a scholarship to sharpen your chances though! LOL. Let's get back to the chase.

Heckler? You can say much but it don't matter none bubba. And why? You don't have much to work on other then the small digit pointers you have. For me, they ain't nothing but food scrap leftovers. Something you cannot chomp on or even get wedged between molars. So how high is the expected value of proofs you have?

You wrote this:-

Mo married Aisha when she was 6. Hadiths says Mo wrote marriage contract when Aisha was 6. Aisha only moved to Mo's  harem after he had sex with her when she was 9 years old.. (or could it be 8years 9month islamic lunar calendar)

So Ayeshah was betrothed at the age of 6 and married off at the age of 9. You overlooked the fact that Ayeshah was earlier on already betrothed to Jubair, son of Mut'am ibn 'Adi. The key words here are BETROTHED and TO BE MARRIED. Jubair would have married Ayeshah if she had not embraced Islam. Ayeshah then went on the journey into Habshah which lasted a near 3 years. It was on her return journey, that she was betrothed to prophet Mohammad after personal counsel from Khaulah to the prophet Mohammad of her availibility in marriage. I ain't telling but I want you to do the math and tell me with a straight face as what be the age of Ayeshah above all that has been written.

Now answer this:-
1. How old was Ayeshah when she was betrothed to Jubair son of Mut'am?
2. How old was Ayeshah when she was betrothed to prophet Mohammad?
3. Khaulah mentioned Ayeshah as "bikr" to the prophet. What means it?

Debmey has slithered away like the legless abomination in the apple tree. Are you gonna do the same too?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 09:38 PM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by WonBin at 26-10-2005 09:47 PM

First of all, since we are currently in Malaysia, I am prefer to speak in Malay....I hope that you can understand Bahasa

Aku sangat suka berbicara dengan mereka dari agama lain. namun aku cukup marah dengan sesetengah daripada mereka kerana secara sengaja ingin menghina Nabi kami, Muhammad SAW.

Semua orang tahu, zaman dahulu adalah biasa bagi kanak2 perempuan berkahwin pada usia yang amat muda kurang 10 tahun. Tidak timbul sebarang masalah dan tiada sebarang isu di sini.

Oleh itu saya tidak faham kenapa anda menuduhnya sebagai paedophile. Yang nyata, anda sengaja menghina Rasul kami.  ...

kalau zaman dulu biasa kenapa Nabi Sulaiman tak kahwin denga budak perempuan 6 tahun??

napa pula sebagai role model muhammad kamu kahwin lebih dari 10+++++ dengan alasan bahawa mereka adalah janda??? janda atau dot dot dot

sebab itulah kami kristian dan yahudi tolak dia habis habisan bahawa dia bukan nabi terakhir.

Fuzzman

I don't think WonBin is gonna be able to respond to you as he might not be able to gain access into this thread as he's doing 4 for access, while the reading access for this thread has upped to 6.

Since you're in here why not give Debmey and Heckler a fighting edge by helping them out with the issue of Ayeshah's earlier fiancee named Jubair ibn Mut'am and her age when betrothed to him?

ARI FUZZMAN

sonny~~

hi guys
look what i've found from another forum

3 headed trinity followers n pagans couldnt c beyond their nose -  mohammad married young aishah then he must be paedophile.  but not at all says the link.  let's c whether debmey n faithhealer gonna c daylight or they gonna stay blind  

peace  

Prophet Muhammad and Aisha Siddiqa

Definition of a Pedophile:

"edophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998
"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster抯 Collegiate Dictionary
  
The diagnostic criteria for pedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:

Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.
The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them.
The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.

DSM-III-R Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed 3, revised, copyright American Psychiatric Association.

"In addition to their pedophilia, a significant number of pedophiles are concomitantly or have previously been involved in exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape". (Voyeurism抯 the recurrent preoccupation with fantasized or acts that involve seeking out or observing people who are naked, or are engaged in grooming or in sexual activity". Synopsis of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan et al., 5th ed., pg360, Publishers: Williams and Wilkens, 1988

sonny~~

:hmm:

Percentage of his (mohammad) wives who were 17years and older = 91 %

Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75%

Comment: The statistics show that the prophet抯 marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore 慳 pedophile抯 main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 09:35 PM
So Ayeshah was betrothed at the age of 6 and married off at the age of 9.

No.

Asiah got married off when she was 6 and got screwed when she was 9.

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 09:35 PM
Now answer this:-
1. How old was Ayeshah when she was betrothed to Jubair son of Mut'am?

Form the hadiths.. Obviously when she was less than 6years old.

FuzzyBoy.. your Jubair case is not helping your master.. it show more darksides of him.  Mo knew that Aisha was engaged to Jubair and yet he had dreams( don't know wet or dry) about Aisha before his marriage to her.(refer Bukhari:V7B62N15)

Whether Abu Bakar was looking for another mate for Aisha or not.. Bakar definately was not looking for Mo to be his son-in-law. Khaulah may have planted the seed of pedo- lust in Mo's mind.. but still it was Mo insisted and convinced Bakar to had over his daughter to him.(refer Bukhari:V7B62N18)

Anyway, in many cultures, many friends and relatives would engage their childrens to each others when the childrens were very young.. even toddlers.

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 09:35 PM
2. How old was Ayeshah when she was betrothed to prophet Mohammad?

According to Bukhari.. she was 6.
it was not really bethothed but a child-marriage as marriage contact was written.

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 27-10-2005 09:35 PM
3. Khaulah mentioned Ayeshah as "bikr" to the prophet. What means it?

According to Ali Sina.. Bikr means virgin and, just as in English is not age specific. It makes no sense, to marry a matured woman and wait for three years to take her home.

FaithHealer3

Mo had young daugthers when he married Aisha.. and Mo had no problem having a wife who is as young as his daughters..

see the guy in the hadiths below, who had more sence that Mo.. check out the fonts in red..

Bukhari:V4B52N211:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: I participated in a Ghazwa along with Allah's Apostle The Prophet met me (on the way) while I was riding a camel of ours used for irrigation and it had got so tired that it could hardly walk. The Prophet asked me, "What is wrong with the camel?" I replied, "It has got tired." So. Allah's Apostle came from behind it and rebuked it and prayed for it so it started surpassing the other camels and going ahead of them. Then he asked me, "How do you find your camel (now)?" I replied, "I find it quite well, now as it has received your blessings." He said, "Will you sell it to me?" I felt shy (to refuse his offer) though it was the only camel for irrigation we had. So, I said, "Yes." He said, "Sell it to me then." I sold it to him on the condition that I should keep on riding it till I reached Medina. Then I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I am a bridegroom," and requested him to allow me to go home. He allowed me, and I set out for Medina before the people till I reached Medina, where I met my uncle, who asked me about the camel and I informed him all about it and he blamed me for that. When I took the permission of Allah's Apostle he asked me whether I had married a virgin or a matron and I replied that I had married a matron. He said, "Why hadn't you married a virgin who would have played with you, and you would have played with her?" I replied, "O Allah's Apostle! My father died (or was martyred) and I have some young sisters, so I felt it not proper that I should marry a young girl like them who would neither teach them manners nor serve them. So, I have married a matron so that she may serve them and teach them manners." When Allah's Apostle arrived in Medina, I took the camel to him the next morning and he gave me its price and gave me the camel itself as well.  

sonny~~

exactly as me expected, the pagan is blind to HARDfacts

its the norm to marry kids those days -  jews, christians, muslims etc but the pagan prefers to make a fuss over mohammad  

peace

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 28-10-2005 12:28 PM
exactly as me expected, the pagan is blind to HARDfacts

its the norm to marry kids those days -  jews, christians, muslims etc but the pagan prefers to make a fuss over mohammad

peace

Told you aleady lah..

The reason is simply because only Mo is idolised and revered as Al-Insan Al-Kamil.

but his deeds done by him does not reflect a person who can be called Al-Insan Al-Kamil.

Fuzzman

C'mon Heckler show some maturity when you're facing me off one on one. You have given me kintergarten stories for answers. You're not getting off that easy you know. Debmey's more experienced than you, that is why Debmey has not squeaked even once after I mentioned the name Jubair ibn Mut'am. Debmey very well knows that with Jubair now in play, there is no logical way Jubair was gonna get married to a 3 year old girl if Ayeshah's age digits of 6 and 9 come into calculation with regards to prophet Mohammad.

Do the math Heckler.
Jubair engaged to Ayeshah. [you guess the age] > The father of Jubair refuses Ayeshah because she became a Moslem. > Ayeshah goes into Habshah for 3 years.> Returns and was matched to the prophet by Khaulah. > the marriage contract made out.[ what age?] > married off. [what age?]

Let me help you out. Let's say we take we take Bukhari's Ayeshah's age narrative of 9 for the promised marriage contract of Aishah to Jubair. So the marriage contract was broken at 9. > Ayesha goes into Habshah at the age of 9. > Returns three years later to Medina at the age of 12. (9+3) > Khaulah matches Ayeshah with the prophet by mentioning Ayeshah as "BIKR". In Arabic, BIKR means a young women. Therefore it concurs with the age of roughly in the region of 12.

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 28-10-2005 02:55 AM
According to Ali Sina.. Bikr means virgin and, just as in English is not age specific. It makes no sense, to marry a matured woman and wait for three years to take her home.

According to Ali Sina? Who is this Ali Sina fella? Ali Sina I do not know but Ali Sinner?..yeah I've heard about that sick individual. For one Ali Sina is no legitimate authority who is only to you. Again know what Bikr means in Arabic? Read on my fren.
All those who know the Arabic language are aware that the word bikr in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year-old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier, isjariyah. Bikr on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady without conjugal experience prior to marriage, as we understand the word 搗irgin

sonny~~

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 28-10-2005 06:12 PM

Told you aleady lah..

The reason is simply because only Mo is idolised and revered as Al-Insan Al-Kamil.

but his deeds done by him does not reflect a person who can be calle ...

by ur own admission u're indeed piggy pagan coz u're only after mohammad who has done u no wrong

what mohammad did is a reflection of the norm those days, not the norm of nowadays.  mark u rabbis married 3 year old babies n i dont c jews of those days squealing after him much less pagans of nowadays  

peace

sonny~~

ouch, 46 pages  :cak: