sam1528 posted on 18-11-2013 11:59 AM
Nobody is denying that the concept of angels in Quran differ from the bible.
In the Quran , ang ...
Nobody is denying that the concept of angels in Quran differ from the bible.
In the Quran , angels are obedient creation of Allah.
In the bible angels have free will and can disobey the biblical God.
If you look at the difference , it is illogical in the bible. ps103:20
that why the fallen angles can impersonate as angle of light....did not muhammad went in fear after seeing the so called angle in cave of hira???
none of our prophets before muhammad went in fear or cover with blanket after seeing angles....good angles went appear will introduced " do not fear I am Gaberile " this what the Bible says...
your angles in islam concept is very misleadings which can be doubth...but ur choice to believe...we do not believe jinn or all angles are pure as one has fallen out
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If in the bible , angels can disobey the biblical God , what makes you think there won't be another war in the christian heaven? There might be a an incident where another obedient angel joining forces with your so called 'lucifer' and take the war to your biblical God. Can happen , can't it?
God cast down the fallen angles in earth and these angels are cunning angles to misleads humans in their path...like i said, they can impersonate as angles of light to misleads many....
we do not believed all thos jinn which nothing but a cook up stories from pak arabs
Now, watch and listen to the following video with open heart than doubt mind:
Apa pun orang kristian berkata tentang Lucifernya namun orang Islam tetap tahu tentang hakikat malaikat disisi mereka. Allah berkata tentang malaikat Nya seperti berikut :
"Bagi tiap-tiap seorang ada malaikat penjaganya silih berganti dari hadapannya dan dari belakangnya, yang mengawas dan menjaganya (dari sesuatu bahaya) dengan perintah Allah. Sesungguhnya Allah tidak mengubah apa yang ada pada sesuatu kaum sehingga mereka mengubah apa yang ada pada diri mereka sendiri. Dan apabila Allah menghendaki untuk menimpakan kepada sesuatu kaum bala bencana (disebabkan kesalahan mereka sendiri), maka tiada sesiapapun yang dapat menolak atau menahan apa yang ditetapkanNya itu, dan tidak ada sesiapapun yang dapat menolong dan melindungi mereka selain daripadaNya." (Al-Ra'd : 11)
Truth.8 posted on 18-11-2013 12:06 PM
that why the fallen angles can impersonate as angle of light....did not muhammad went in fear after seeing the so called angle in cave of hira???
none of our prophets before muhammad went in fear or cover with blanket after seeing angles....good angles went appear will introduced " do not fear I am Gaberile " this what the Bible says...
your angles in islam concept is very misleadings which can be doubth...but ur choice to believe...we do not believe jinn or all angles are pure as one has fallen out
Aiyoyo , this is hilarious tambi. Now you are dictating how an angel should behave? We've been thru this. Biblical Daniel also got scared when the angel appeared to him. Are you now admitting that it was satan that appeared? You never did respond to this issue. You just ran away and bring up the same issue over and over again but not answering the question. Why is it so?
You claim that a fallen angel can appear being light. Therefore Paul did not meet biblical Jesus but Satan as he admitted he was blinded by the light on his way to Damascus. Could be true as his teaching is opposite to that of biblical Jesus.
I think the christian concept of angels is misleading. Imagine angels which is supposed to be obedient can then have a mind of its own and rebel against God. Like I stated , what is to prevent another angel to joint forces with the so called 'lucifer' and bring the war to the biblical God? Downright confusing , isn't it?
God cast down the fallen angles in earth and these angels are cunning angles to misleads humans in their path...like i said, they can impersonate as angles of light to misleads many....
we do not believed all thos jinn which nothing but a cook up stories from pak arabs
Now, watch and listen to the following video with open heart than doubt mind:
Again you are ignorant of your own bible. Jinn is in the arabic bible and it existed at least 500 years before the english bible. Are you now admitting that Paul actually met Satan? Peter also met satan in acts 12. What gives?
Truth.8 posted on 18-11-2013 09:57 AM
kau ini bodoh ke atau sahaja nak buat bodoh,...
kau tak paham ke fallen angles???
kau ini bodoh ke atau sahaja nak buat bodoh,...
kau tak paham ke fallen angles???
kalau itu pun tak paham pegi belajar dulu beza fallen angels ini....
kami tidak percaya jinn2 ini semua...lucifer asal malaikat tapi inigin merampas kuasa takta DIA...simple as that...
if u difficult to understand ...not my problem..u can stick to you so call jinn which made of fire lah and this
bodoh? Eh, kamu yang cakap Lucifer/Cherub itu MALAIKAT, SEBELUM DIA ADA KEINGINAN UNTUK MERAMPAS TAKHTA TUHAN.
Saya tak argue pun samada dia malaikat atau tidak. Saya cuma tanya, DARIPADA MANA LUCIFER/CHERUB (MASA ZAMAN MALAIKAT) TIBA2 ADA PERASAAN INGIN MERAMPAS TAKHTA??? Daripada nafsu ke, daripada akal ke, daripada mana?
Soalan simple je, tapi kamu tak boleh jawab. lepas tu cakap orang lain bodoh.
rasanya, kalau ikut logic, yang tak boleh jawab soalanlah yang bodoh, sbb tak cukup ilmu nak jawab soalan simple.
takpa, saya tanya lagi skali :
DARIPADA MANA LUCIFER/CHERUB (MASA ZAMAN MALAIKAT) TIBA2 ADA PERASAAN INGIN MERAMPAS TAKHTA??
sam1528 posted on 18-11-2013 06:28 PM
Aiyoyo , this is hilarious tambi. Now you are dictating how an angel should behave? We've been thr ...
Aiyoyo , this is hilarious tambi.
makcik ini tak paham lagi ka.....
hilarious ke atau sudah kena tipu???
the Bible prefect in giving in details how this earth was made and etc...
compare the quran who still think jinn is made of fire and etc....
ct_og posted on 18-11-2013 04:41 PM
Apa pun orang kristian berkata tentang Lucifernya namun orang Islam tetap tahu tentang hakikat malai ...
kamu dah tengok video itu?? sudah paham ke?? dari penjelasaan dari video tersebut....ia memang sungguh sempurna sebab ia menceritakan mengikut Bible macam bumi ini di cipta dan lain2 ....dlm konteks ini...islam tidak dpt memberi penerangan dgn terperinci berbanding dgn Bible....
Truth.8 posted on 18-11-2013 09:39 PM
makcik ini tak paham lagi ka.....
hilarious ke atau sudah kena tipu???
the Bible prefect in giving in details how this earth was made and etc...
compare the quran who still think jinn is made of fire and etc....
The bible give perfect details of how the earth was made? You must be joking
Lets see
- the bible states that the earth was made in 6 days
- vegetation was produced first gen1:11 , then the sun was created , gen1:14
Science has again proven the bible to be wrong.
Do tell us how , in the bible - how did the biblical God created angels?
sam1528 posted on 19-11-2013 12:22 AM
The bible give perfect details of how the earth was made? You must be joking
Lets see
The bible give perfect details of how the earth was made? You must be joking
Lets see
- the bible states that the earth was made in 6 days
- vegetation was produced first gen1:11 , then the sun was created , gen1:14
Science has again proven the bible to be wrong.
Do tell us how , in the bible - how did the biblical God created angels?
lying again? alway lie lie lie...this is the tactic done by some muslims to lie and down grade the Bible ....only fool will fall trap with muslims tactic...
God says let there be light(sun) and list follows:
Genesis 1-11
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
as 6 days and 1 day God rested....God not tired but showing example how humans should work 6 days and rested 1 day which is Sabbath (saturday) to remind HIS creations ...as this day Sabbath, we observed , pray and thankful for HIS creations...this was observed by all prophets expext muhammad who called himself seal of all prophets but broke the Sabbath...which observed friday prayer which is pagan observation ...hindus pray on friday ...which is special holy day ..
...and the angles was not created by fire ....some pagan believers pray to fire .... and islam jinn is made of fire....that explained...
Truth.8 posted on 18-11-2013 09:51 PM
kamu dah tengok video itu?? sudah paham ke?? dari penjelasaan dari video tersebut....ia memang sun ...
Kalau bible tu sempurna maka apa ayat dalam bible yang dapat membalas ayat Allah kata dalam al-Quran seperti berikut :
Katakanlah : “Tuhan ku ialah Allah Yang Maha Esa; Allah Yang menjadi tumpuan sekalian makhluk untuk memohon sebarang hajat. Dia tiada beranak, dan Dia pula tidak diperanakkan. Dan tidak ada sesiapapun yang serupa dengan Nya”.
Truth.8 posted on 19-11-2013 10:15 AM
sila ke C&C dkt situ saya sudah tulis One God but Two...
Saya dah pergi ke sana dan baca... ada 21 pages.. tapi ayat Bible yang dapat membalas ayat al-Quran yang saya postkan di atas tu tak ada.. cuma yang ada hanya mengatakan Tuhan tu lebih dari satu... mana ayat bible yang mengatakan Tuhan tu BOLEH beranak dan boleh diperanakan?
Truth.8 posted on 18-11-2013 09:39 PM
lagi2 nak tunjuk kebodohan ...bodoh atau pura2
have u watch video? i doubt
laaa, dahlah tak jawab soalan, nak hentam orang 'bodoh' pula.
btw video tu aku tengoklah Truth.8. Dia siap cakap the 'sons of god' (referring to the angels) came unto the daughters of men (manusia, perempuan) and they bore children with them.
video tu cakap
1. Malaikat SEMUA LELAKI
2. Malaikat datang kepada MANUSIA PEREMPUAN DAN KEMUDIAN DAPAT ANAK.
3. Anak2 ini adalah 'imighty men' or 'men of reknowned'.
Nah, video tu sendiri cakap mende ni. Macam mana malaikat boleh datang ke perempuan dari golongan manusia kemudian tiba2 ada anak pulak? Video tu salah ke, macam mana? (rujuk minit ke 2:30 onwards kat dalam video yang Truth.8 on post #61)
btw, dalam video tu kata, Lucifer turned away from God because of HIS PRIDE. He have REBELLION IN HIS HEART.
Now, PRIDE TU DATANG DARI MANA? Adakah SEMUA MALAIKAT BOLEH ADA PRIDE?????
Truth.8 posted on 19-11-2013 09:24 AM
lying again? alway lie lie lie...this is the tactic done by some muslims to lie and down grade t ...
soalan bro kami sam1528 :
Do tell us how , in the bible - how did the biblical God created angels?
ini pula jawapan dari Truth.8:
...and the angles was not created by fire ....some pagan believers pray to fire .... and islam jinn is made of fire....that explained...
Tidak menjawab soalan langsung! You know why? Because according to Truth.8's video, the Bible DID NOT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE ANGELS.
btw not sure what Truth.8 is trying to point out in his response quoted above.
Truth.8 posted on 19-11-2013 09:24 AM
lying again? alway lie lie lie...this is the tactic done by some muslims to lie and down grade the Bible ....only fool will fall trap with muslims tactic...
God says let there be light(sun) and list follows:
Genesis 1-11
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
as 6 days and 1 day God rested....God not tired but showing example how humans should work 6 days and rested 1 day which is Sabbath (saturday) to remind HIS creations ...as this day Sabbath, we observed , pray and thankful for HIS creations...this was observed by all prophets expext muhammad who called himself seal of all prophets but broke the Sabbath...which observed friday prayer which is pagan observation ...hindus pray on friday ...which is special holy day ..
...and the angles was not created by fire ....some pagan believers pray to fire .... and islam jinn is made of fire....that explained...
I don't understand fundies like you. Bible scholars a couple of generations ago have declared that the bible is inerrent. Yet you claim the opposite but in reality you don't really know your bible.
I can accept if the '6 days' is '6 era or epoch' as the hebrew word 'yom' is used. However a bigger problem arise. Refer to verses 11 & 12 (hilited in red). Your biblical God created vegetation first , then the sun. Basic science tells us that vegetation needs sunlight to survive and grow. Again science has proven the bible wrong.
Waaah! A God need to rest issit? Why can't you still work and take a break to worship? It does not make sense that the biblical God became tired and needed a rest. What kind of God is such?
My question and also been asked by 'bro gunblade712'
Do tell us how , in the bible - how did the biblical God created angels?
Your answer :
...and the angles was not created by fire ....some pagan believers pray to fire .... and islam jinn is made of fire....that explained...
I thought you stated that the bible teaches you everything? Appears its not everything then.
gunblade712 posted on 19-11-2013 12:02 PM
laaa, dahlah tak jawab soalan, nak hentam orang 'bodoh' pula.
btw video tu aku tengoklah Truth ...
Malaikat ini lelaki ...itu yg di sebut dlm video.....And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
simple understanding ...muslims failed to understand ...now we know why muslims nations are so backwards
Truth.8 posted on 19-11-2013 03:30 PM
Malaikat ini lelaki ...itu yg di sebut dlm video.....And God said, Let us make man in our image, ...
Malaikat ini lelaki ...itu yg di sebut dlm video.....And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
simple understanding ...muslims failed to understand ...now we know why muslims nations are so backwards
eh? eh? apa ni? apa awak cuba sampaikan? "Let us make man in our image" tu refer to penciptaan MANUSIA, bukan MALAIKAT. Meh saya quote balik :
video tu cakap
1. Malaikat SEMUA LELAKI 2. Malaikat datang kepada MANUSIA PEREMPUAN DAN KEMUDIAN DAPAT ANAK.
3. Anak2 ini adalah 'imighty men' or 'men of reknowned'.
Nah, video tu sendiri cakap mende ni. Macam mana malaikat boleh datang ke perempuan dari golongan manusia kemudian tiba2 ada anak pulak? Video tu salah ke, macam mana? (rujuk minit ke 2:30 onwards kat dalam video yang Truth.8 on post #61)
btw, dalam video tu kata, Lucifer turned away from God because of HIS PRIDE. He have REBELLION IN HIS HEART.
Now, PRIDE TU DATANG DARI MANA? Adakah SEMUA MALAIKAT BOLEH ADA PRIDE?????
All those bold points requires your attention, seeing that you're the ones who bring the video into this discussion. Backward countries or not, that's not the discussion here. The discussion is about your points mention here. Don't tell me YOU are backward and can't answer those simple questions?
the dense accumulation of fogs and vapors which enveloped the chaos had covered the globe with a settled gloom. But by the command of God, light was rendered visible; the thick murky clouds were dispersed, broken, or rarefied, and light diffused over the expanse of waters. The effect is described in the name "day," which in Hebrew signifies "warmth," "heat"
gen1:14
the sun, moon, and stars were for the first time unveiled in all their glory in the cloudless sky
It is clear that the sun was created after the vegetation on earth. How can the vegetation survive without sunlight? The biblical God missed out on this scientific fact.
You are blindly denying the scientific contradiction of the bible. Faith shattering , isn't it?
sam1528 posted on 19-11-2013 06:16 PM
John Gill commentary of gen1:3
gen1:14
As far as the Bible concern, it clearly stated light first and than rest...
so what difference does it make whether sun or moon later???
Creation Week: Light on Day 1 but the Sun on Day 4? Genesis 1:3
tells us, "Then God said, 'Let there be light.'" If all the rest of the initial creation had to occur after this verse, then there would seem to have been nothing to produce this light (i.e., no sun).
Genesis 1:3
tells us, "Then God said, 'Let there be light.'" If all the rest of the initial creation had to occur after this verse, then there would seem to have been nothing to produce this light (i.e., no sun). And we can't argue that the new light source was God, who is light (1 John 1:5), because He eternally existed before the introduction of the light described in verse 3. The account makes more sense when we realize that the earth and sun were both created at an earlier time, and that the earth later became a lifeless, ruined wasteland—its atmosphere choked with debris that prevented light from penetrating to the surface.
It's important to understand that of all the galaxies and planets God created, it is the earth that is the focus of God's greatest creative works, and therefore the events of the six-day account are described from the perspective of the earth itself, specifically from the vantage point of its surface (where all life-forms will be brought into existence). R.K. Harrison's Introduction to the Old Testament says: "In explaining this phenomenon it must first be noted that the standpoint of the first chapter of Genesis is an ideal geocentric one, as though the writer were actually upon the earth at that time and in a position to record the developing phases of created life as he experienced them. From such a standpoint the heavenly bodies would only become visible when the dense cloud-covering of the earth had dispersed to a large extent" (p. 554).
Verse 5 says, "God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day." Note that the cycle of day and night, or evening and morning, requires a rotating earth as well as an atmosphere allowing enough sunlight to come to the surface.
Through the next three days of the account, the process of renewing the earth continues. (It should be pointed out that these are literal, 24-hour days.) God next separates water on the earth's surface from water in the atmosphere, with a breathable expanse of air between the two (the second day). Next God separates the surface waters from land masses and causes flora to spring up from the land (the third day).
Now we come to the fourth day: "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night'" (verse 14). On this day the atmosphere is further cleared so that from the observation point of the earth's surface, the sun, moon and stars are now clearly distinguishable in the sky. " Let there be " is not a statement of the initial creation, but a statement of appearance. This passage tells us that these celestial objects were allowed to be visible so that they could serve people as markers of signs, seasons, days and years.
Verse 16 then specifies that "God made two great lights." The Hebrew verb for "made" here ( asah ) could also be translated as"had made," denoting a previous action. Since the earth was already in existence prior to the first creation day, there is no reason to conclude that the celestial bodies were not also already in existence—since verse 1 states that in the beginning, God created both the heavens and the earth. However, the word asah also has the broader meaning of "set" or "appoint." This translation would not necessitate a previous action, for it appears that God set the sky in order on the fourth day and appointed the time keeping role already mentioned.
Now that the atmosphere was fresh and clean, with light and warmth coming to the earth, we next see God putting life on the restored planet—fish, birds, animals and human beings. The last thing God created was the Sabbath rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:2-3 ). Last edited by Truth.8 on 19-11-2013 07:18 PM
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Post time 18-11-2013 04:41 PM
