Concept Of Reincarnation - Let's Debate :)

benign

In Islam, every animal flying or crawling (and swimming) praises Allah in their own language.

barney50

1. responded by benign:In Islam, every animal flying or crawling (and swimming) praises Allah in their own language.

Copy the Code

Yeh! Like you undersand them. What are they reciting, the Salatu-l-Fajr[morning prayers] before they fly out to catch the first worm? Please talk something logic.

benign

do you find any logic that you were originally a horse once????

Sephiroth

by i212   

I say CURIOSITY become a starting point to someone.
- When they curios what contain beneath tree,  they will dig the soil.
- When they curios what offer them at top,  they will try to find way to go up, and people call it CLIMB. Do any children can CLIMB before they learn how to do it?

And I persume people produce Symphony music because they curious about playing the piano, huh? ;)

Same as wright brothers or people in their era,
They curios how the feeling when flying like a bird, so they try to invent something that can make them fly.
They can not fly themself. And the ability to invent comes through several testing. They not just know how to build plane on the spot.
People nowadays know how to build a plane because there already guide how to do it. no reincarnation involved.

There is such thing called Communal Knowledge, you know. Do you know why you get injection with vaccines when you were 3 months, 6 months and 12 years old? It is so the body can use the vaccines' genetic material to produce its own immune system which will be used as defence against disease.

Same way is communal knowledge. People gather knowledge through experience and failures in flights from pervious eras and Wright Brothers just add the right formula and get it flying. That doesn't make them smarter or a god, that just make them one of the person who have learned from their communal knowledge and improvised. Same way is Reincarnation. Just because you can do something today, it doesn't mean it is from mere curiousity, it is from knowledge past from before which exists in your subconsciousness.

About the bacteria,
Genetic bring along some information to their successor. I am not biologist but I know the some concept cause I learn in my school time.(not reincarnation.. heheheh)  

You know how Bacteria's reproduce? They divide themselves to two organism - each with identical information. That is why their remain as low-level lifeforms - they cannot evolve past their pervious form because they kept dividing in equal portion.

Matter a fact, Life as we knows today exist BECAUSE two different organism - the Blue Algae and the Green Algae entered a symbolic relationship. NOT because they kept dividing and dividing till hell freezes over (and it almost did during Cambrian Explosion).

Debmey

Originally posted by benign at 3-11-2006 09:51 PM
do you find any logic that you were originally a horse once????

Some say monkey, some say horse and some say pig.
We must make reincarnation understandable to all.

vixen

Originally posted by Debmey at 4-11-2006 09:02 AM
We must make reincarnation understandable to all.

Yes and looks like the threadstarter(Sephiroth) fails to accomplish that(other than calling people stupid whenever they pose a valid question).Still so many holes that need to be explained in his Reincarnation theory.

[ Last edited by  vixen at 4-11-2006 02:52 PM ]

ussopp

interesting is the story is best...

but sadly no purpuse to the long loooooooooooong journey...

Originally posted by vixen at 4-11-2006 02:51 PM

Yes and looks like the threadstarter(Sephiroth) fails to accomplish that(other than calling people stupid whenever they pose a valid question).

Which brings us back to post #2.  :lol

Sephiroth

by Debmey   

Some say monkey, some say horse and some say pig.
We must make reincarnation understandable to all.  

Hmph ... it is more understandable than a story about a god who get killed by man so man can redeem himself by killing a god, and in return, god condemn man to hell for not believing in a dead god who came to die for them, who is now a dead god. ;)


by vixen   

Yes and looks like the threadstarter(Sephiroth) fails to accomplish that(other than calling people stupid whenever they pose a valid question).Still so many holes that need to be explained in his Reincarnation theory.

And what does an Atheist - who have mentality of animals - could know about Human theories? ;)

Atheists are have not reach the Human level of Intelligence. They should be discussing things relating to humans.

Atheists are have not reach the Human level of Intelligence. They should be discussing things relating to humans.

contradiction here oit oit...

Sephiroth

Originally posted by veydis at 6-11-2006 10:34 AM
Atheists are have not reach the Human level of Intelligence. They should be discussing things relating to humans.

contradiction here oit oit...

Right ... small typo. Proper sentence is "They should NOT be discussing things relating to Humans". Thank you. I was in a hurry.

i212

by Seph
And I persume people produce Symphony music because they curious about playing the piano, huh?

Not curios about piano.. but curios about sound that produce by something.

I produce computer system. And my curiosity  make me learn how to produce one.

by Seph
You know how Bacteria's reproduce? They divide themselves to two organism - each with identical information. That is why their remain as low-level lifeforms - they cannot evolve past their pervious form because they kept dividing in equal portion.

Thats show there is NO such thing on reincarnation.
If reincarnation are Truth, then it should be apply on all living thing. No matter small organism or large one.

by Seph
Matter a fact, Life as we knows today exist BECAUSE two different organism - the Blue Algae and the Green Algae entered a symbolic relationship. NOT because they kept dividing and dividing till hell freezes over (and it almost did during Cambrian Explosion).

If that true... then what is their real form before they exist? sinners?

[ Last edited by  i212 at 6-11-2006 01:11 PM ]

barney50

1. responded byi212:
   
2. 
   
3. Thats show there is NO such thing on reincarnation.
   
4. If reincarnation are Truth, then it should be apply on all living thing. No matter small organism or large one.

Copy the Code

All living beings are reincarnation of the original. If you do not believe it does not mean it dosen't function. You were someone of some being in your previous life and in this life you have not realized the truth than you'd be back again to suffer the consequences of your action in this life. That is a fact.

Sephiroth

by i212   

Not curios about piano.. but curios about sound that produce by something.

Right (sarcasm) ... banging your empty head onto the wall also produces sound, that doesn't mean that someone going to start a Symphony like Beethoven's.

I produce computer system. And my curiosity  make me learn how to produce one.  

Wrong ... you do not produce or learn to produce one, you just mimic those who already produced one before. You are not Beethoven. :no:
No one produce Beethoven's Symphony for him to follow and reproduce it. He, on his own ... and Yes, out of curiosity, learn and mastered his skill and produced the Symphony on his own.

You say your curiosity make you learn to produce one. Can you produce a computer which is more powerful than Pentium Dual Processor which exists in the market today? Nope, because you mimic other people's knowledge, you do not produce any knowledge on your own. Same like writing a fictional story ... anyone can write (even Yaoi and Yuri stuff ;) ), but ONLY ONE in a few thousands (or even millions) can write a truly beautiful story.

If reincarnation are Truth, then it should be apply on all living thing. No matter small organism or large one.

Right ... what's wrong with that? All living things recycles - bacteria do in air and soil (even in your body) the same way you recycle in the ground where you are laid.

If that true... then what is their real form before they exist? sinners?  

What does Sins and being Sinners have to do with Cambrian Explosion? :stp:
You know ... you are trapped in Christian Doctrine too much. ;)

Small ones are Algaes - microscopic lifeforms which was abundant in the Ocean millions of years ago.

Obersliutenant

so do hindus believe in an after life? like where good people go and where bad people go... coz this world is scheduled for destruction aka the day of judgement... this world isnt permanent you know ?

i212

by Barney50
All living beings are reincarnation of the original. If you do not believe it does not mean it dosen't function. You were someone of some being in your previous life and in this life you have not realized the truth than you'd be back again to suffer the consequences of your action in this life. That is a fact.

I see... Then.. if the person have GOOD DEEDS in this life. What will he become after he dead?

by Seph
Right (sarcasm) ... banging your empty head onto the wall also produces sound, that doesn't mean that someone going to start a Symphony like Beethoven's.

Only NOT-THINKING person produce music by banging their head to wall.
For me, better I find some skull to bang it..

by Seph
Wrong ... you do not produce or learn to produce one, you just mimic those who already produced one before. You are not Beethoven.

Thats show I am not reincarnated by past life. Because i need to learn before produce one system.

Did Beethoven can do some symphony without learning or hearing other music?

by Seph
No one produce Beethoven's Symphony for him to follow and reproduce it. He, on his own ... and  Yes, out of curiosity, learn and mastered his skill and produced the Symphony on his own.

Learn and mastered. --> Doesnt explain reincarnation.
He learn music without any curiosity? hmmmmm....
From that the scenario are like these:
He heard people play music.
He curios to learn how to make those sound. ANd mastered it.
Then he think (hmm... why dont I create some new sound). He do it alone because he want the "copyright". hehehh
Then he analyze which sound fit with other sound to produce better sound.
After analyzing and learning and testing then... wallla.... He create Symphony.

If the ability comes from reincarnation.
What type of living things that do sin or good deeds that have those ability and reincarnated become Beethoven?

by Seph
You say your curiosity make you learn to produce one. Can you produce a computer which is more powerful than Pentium Dual Processor which exists in the market today? Nope, because you mimic other people's knowledge, you do not produce any knowledge on your own. Same like writing a fictional story ... anyone can write (even Yaoi and Yuri stuff  ), but ONLY ONE in a few thousands (or even millions) can write a truly beautiful story.

Did the Processor develop by ONE person?
Do you know what they do in order to achieve current Speed?

are your answer.. reincarnation? ...

by Seph
Right ... what's wrong with that? All living things recycles - bacteria do in air and soil (even in your body) the same way you recycle in the ground where you are laid.

Do you mean bacteria also reincarnated?
or you say right about there is no reincarnation?

by Seph
What does Sins and being Sinners have to do with Cambrian Explosion?
You know ... you are trapped in Christian Doctrine too much.

I say about things that reincarnate become bacteria.

by Seph
Small ones are Algaes - microscopic lifeforms which was abundant in the Ocean millions of years ago.

That Algaes reincarnated from what?

Sephiroth

by Obersliutenant   

so do hindus believe in an after life? like where good people go and where bad people go... coz this world is scheduled for destruction aka the day of judgement... this world isnt permanent you know ?

Hello, you think this World is the ONLY World out there ke? ;)

If this World ends, we go to another World and continue our circle of Life in a new form. If one Solar System end, there are others. If one Galaxy ends, there will be others. Hell, even if one Universe ends, there are other Universes as stated by Science.

Circle will continue TILL we reach Purity or when we reach God.

Sephiroth

by i212   

Only NOT-THINKING person produce music by banging their head to wall.
For me, better I find some skull to bang it..

ONLY Cave men will find skulls to bang on. I could MAKE proper tools like hallowed bamboo and such to make muscial intructments. ;)

Thats show I am not reincarnated by past life. Because i need to learn before produce one system.  

Wrong ... Beethoven's music have NEVER come from any other system. MUSIC like Beethoven cannot be produced by instruments alone. It MUST have talent, passion for music and deep understanding of music itself. All this you CANNOT teach anyone else; it MUST come from a person naturally.

Did Beethoven can do some symphony without learning or hearing other music?

No other music prior to Beethoven's Symphony exists in same features. That much I know. In another word, he didn't copy it from anywhere. He produced it.

Learn and mastered. --> Doesnt explain reincarnation.
He learn music without any curiosity? hmmmmm....
From that the scenario are like these:
He heard people play music.
He curios to learn how to make those sound. ANd mastered it.
Then he think (hmm... why dont I create some new sound). He do it alone because he want the "copyright". hehehh
Then he analyze which sound fit with other sound to produce better sound.
After analyzing and learning and testing then... wallla.... He create Symphony.

So this World must be FULL of Great Masters, IF we follow your half-baked theory. ;)

We must have Master Surgeons who can perform great feats of surgery with only learning the stuff, performing a few times, and VOILA! He is a Master.

We must also have Master Engineer who could built anything, Master Physics who can unravel the Mysteries of the Universe in matter of years, Master Artists, Master Strategists and so one.

And the most idiotic part of all this is, NO ONE else CAN claim he or she is a Master of anything because the pervious Master exists and the pervious Master has a copyright to his claim and the very Science he have Mastered. ;)

If the ability comes from reincarnation.
What type of living things that do sin or good deeds that have those ability and reincarnated become Beethoven?

First of all, THROW the crap about Sin and Merit out of the Window first. Life and Death in God's Hands, if He choose you to be reborn in particular fashion, most suitable to redeem yourself from your Sins, that is what you will become. You do not choose your birth, your actions does.

Did the Processor develop by ONE person?
Do you know what they do in order to achieve current Speed?

You tell me that.

are your answer.. reincarnation? ...
Better than saying you doing to die and go to some heaven with 72 prostitutes. ;)

Do you mean bacteria also reincarnated?
or you say right about there is no reincarnation?

Bacteria don't die, stupid. One-cells organisms DO NOT DIE. They split themselves into a new single cell organism and it goes on and one.

That Algaes reincarnated from what?  
From non-living organism which produced oxygen millions of years ago. Happy?

i212

by Seph
ONLY Cave men will find skulls to bang on. I could MAKE proper tools like hallowed bamboo and such to make muscial intructments.

see... now you learning the best way to produce sound.

by Seph
Wrong ... Beethoven's music have NEVER come from any other system. MUSIC like Beethoven cannot be produced by instruments alone. It MUST have talent, passion for music and deep understanding of music itself. All this you CANNOT teach anyone else; it MUST come from a person naturally.

To have deep understanding on music ==> He learn and can be teach.
Talent => yup.. naturally. (thats what i call basic program)
Passion for music => i have passion on programming.

by Seph
No other music prior to Beethoven's Symphony exists in same features. That much I know. In another word, he didn't copy it from anywhere. He produced it.

Yup.. he produce it using instrument that used before.

by Seph
So this World must be FULL of Great Masters, IF we follow your half-baked theory.

We must have Master Surgeons who can perform great feats of surgery with only learning the stuff, performing a few times, and VOILA! He is a Master.

We must also have Master Engineer who could built anything, Master Physics who can unravel the Mysteries of the Universe in matter of years, Master Artists, Master Strategists and so one.

And the most idiotic part of all this is, NO ONE else CAN claim he or she is a Master of anything because the pervious Master exists and the pervious Master has a copyright to his claim and the very Science he have Mastered.

Yup...
In Programming ==> we have someone who mastered the method and teach others.
In Martial Art ==> we have someone who mastered specific or several martial art and teach others.
In writing ==> we have someone who mastered the way of beautifull writing and teach others.

by Seph
And the most idiotic part of all this is, NO ONE else CAN claim he or she is a Master of anything because the pervious Master exists and the pervious Master has a copyright to his claim and the very Science he have Mastered

If people follow reincarnation..

by Seph
First of all, THROW the crap about Sin and Merit out of the Window first. Life and Death in God's Hands, if He choose you to be reborn in particular fashion, most suitable to redeem yourself from your Sins, that is what you will become. You do not choose your birth, your actions does.

How can i throw the thing about sin adn merit as you sad people reincarnated as other living thing depends on what they do in their past live.
Did a sinners reincarnated to become animal or something else?

by Seph
Life and Death in God's Hand

Yes.. I agree.

by Seph
You tell me that.

Do you ever hear about R&D?

by Seph
Better than saying you doing to die and go to some heaven with 72 prostitutes. ;)

Lets say what the author of the Hadith say true,
Then why not?....
Its reward man... reward for the Good Deeds and Pray.
I as a muslim and do all good deeds not for that reward.
Maybe you did.

by Seph
Bacteria don't die, stupid. One-cells organisms DO NOT DIE. They split themselves into a new single cell organism and it goes on and one.

Sure or not. any article?

by Seph
From non-living organism which produced oxygen millions of years ago. Happy?

and non-living organism reincarnated from what?

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 7-11-2006 12:35 PM
by Obersliutenant   
Hello, you think this World is the ONLY World out there ke?

If this World ends, we go to another World and continue our circle of Life in a new form. If one Solar System end, there are others. If one Galaxy ends, there will be others. Hell, even if one Universe ends, there are other Universes as stated by Science.

Circle will continue TILL we reach Purity or when we reach God.

LOL, LOL, LOL, thanks for the joke, man. i really had a good laugh. for everyone sake, ill put the actual one below.

If this World ends, we go to another World and continue our circle of Life in a new form. If one Solar System end, there are others. If one Galaxy ends, there will be others. Hell, even if one Universe ends, there are other Universes as stated by ME, Sephiroth. BELIEVE ME, IT'S THE TRUTH.COM