What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by OnEdge at 2005-3-9 10:30 AM:
extremely smart...smarter than anyone here I have to say..Like i said before...call your witnesses...and if they agree, I will too.

Whoa really longgg silence here! The reason Debbo cannot call the required witnesses from his faith is because they [Debbo's witnesses] must have readily agreed through PM contact with Debbo that his created "Hickory Dickory Dock" sura would only be comparable to the Holy Bible only! Why? The Bible and his created sura are nothing but creations of lesser men. LOL

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

I already asked Truth to be my witness, the real question is, will Fuzzman accept his judgment?

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-10 08:43 AM:
I already asked Truth to be my witness, the real question is, will Fuzzman accept his judgment?

In Islam, one of the prerequisites of a witness is that he must be of sound mind.  I don't think .8 fits the bill. ... come to think of it...there's really not much difference between the 2 of you.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 10-3-2005 at 02:24 PM ]

... and being so used to the way  .8 reacts to things, he would probably say.."how you expect my mind to  make any sound?"   :lol

Debmey

Originally posted by KENNKID at 2005-3-10 02:21 PM:



In Islam, one of the prerequisites of a witness is that he must be of sound mind.  I don't think .8 fits the bill. ... come to think of it...there's really not ...

Where is that written in the Quran? Please show me.

Didn't Edge say I call call anyone to be judge? Why do you contradict him?

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-10 06:35 PM:


Where is that written in the Quran? Please show me.

Didn't Edge say I call call anyone to be judge? Why do you contradict him?

Look in the hadith. Under Islamic jurisprudence. Do your own research. I was talking about witnesses. If witnesses have to be of sound mind, don't judges have to be more so? I'm not contradicting Edge. I'm sure he agrees with me.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 10-3-2005 at 06:50 PM ]

Debmey

I'm sorry fren, the Quran says I can get anyone to help me. Why r yu disobeying the Quran? Are you having cold feet for allah already?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-10 06:53 PM:
I'm sorry fren, the Quran says I can get anyone to help me. Why r yu disobeying the Quran? Are you having cold feet for allah already?

YES you can bring witnesses from the likes of your own faith to see whether you have performed well. That is the main pre-requisite and fundamental basis for doubtors of soora 2:23 which evidently is part of the criteria to compliment the objective of the soora itself.
But then again how can you bring on any helpers to aid you when you say that the soora does not qualify as a Objective Criteria? If you bring on Truthy as your witness, you automatically contradict your stand on the Objective Criteria as not having a objective criteria because ironically the presence of Truthy as your witness compliments the soora? Is that what you will go for?

Before you can bring on Truthy to stand by you [which BTW Fuzzman welcomes overwhelmingly] you must first openly admit that the soora has a valid objective criteria, or else you contradict yourself shamefully!

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 10-3-2005 at 07:55 PM ]

Debmey

Since you muslims do not want to specify the objective criteria, I'll do it for you. Its very fair isn't it. Why? You chickening?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-10 09:20 PM:
Since you muslims do not want to specify the objective criteria, I'll do it for you. Its very fair isn't it. Why? You chickening?

I put it to you that the whole,verse of the soora 2:23 is the most perfect objective criteria for doubtors who think that Quran was created by Prophet Mohammad, but you have yet to prove or show evidence otherwise. You just keep on rattling about fairness and chickens? Don't you think that that is a wrong turn you're taking there? Looks like you making your way into a chicken farm and not this thread!
The 2:23 has an objective and that objective is to produce a soora "like it" and not "of it". The criteria of the 2:23 is to produce only when in doubt. So that makes the objective criteria as "producing a soora like it and not of it only when in doubt." The extension of the criteria leads into you being able to obtain helpers of your faith in completing this task.

So to bring Truthy into the picture as a helper or witness is just great? Means we're getting somewhere after all? What a relief for everyone? So by that act of inserting Truthy as your witness, you have automatically self-fullfilled one of the of the greater requirements of the soora itself. Now what's left for you to do is just simply admit that  the 2:23 has the objective criteria required for Truthy's insertion as your legitimate witness, judge or whatevveerr!

Do it like it is, so we can move on to the next level of metamorphosis.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

I already took the challenge. Since you can't lay out the objective criteria, I will do it for you Muslims. Are you getting cold feet for allah already? Ahahahahahahahaha...........

peace

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-10 11:34 PM:
I already took the challenge. Since you can't lay out the objective criteria, I will do it for you Muslims. Are you getting cold feet for allah already? Ahahahahahahahaha...........peace

First you create the "HICKORY DICKORY DOCK" sura which you want to use as a comparison to Quran, through the criteria of the 2:23. Feeling really confident about your newfound "attributes" that the good Lord has given you, you become much bolder and want to bring on Truthy as your helper or witness to nail home your "victory run". Your inflated ego made you forget that without realising it, you had initiated the requirements of the soora which you said did not carry the needed objective criteria? Now why would you carry on if the objective criteria was not there as you say? Wouldn't it be stupid to do what you did and tell that the "challenge" is baseless and without merit? LOL Go see a shrink. Get a head check. You need one right about now! LOL.

YES you took the challenge [if you call it so] b ut only half of it. You very well know that half measures don't always end up as complete solutions if you don't provide full disclosure. Please explain how can you come up with a "Hickory Dickory Dock" creation of a sura and bring in Truthy as your witness or even helper, when you don't confirm that the soora 2:23 has the necessary requirements of a objective criteria? YOU REJECT THE SOORA AND YET YOU FOLLOW THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SOORA ITSELF? This just isn't the time to show us your "nutty disposition" that's making you sound off really nuts! LOL

So who is it that's getting cold feet for failing complete full disclosure? Can't be us cos' we're waiting on you?  Looks like in your own zest , you fell into the trap that you set.

PROVE TO US THAT THE 2:23 IS WORD FOR WORD WITHOUT OBJECTIVE CRITERIA?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You see, Muslims are chickening out already, giving lots of excuses along the way tht don't even sound coherent.

The Quran is defeated by default by me.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-11 12:00 PM:
You see, Muslims are chickening out already, giving lots of excuses along the way tht don't even sound coherent. The Quran is defeated by default by me. cheers

Coherent? Looks like Debmey is trying to make himself sound off really sophisicated like here by "utilising" new vocab but too bad it doesn't fit his package! LOL
Coherent? Not only is Fuzzman that but consistent as well. Everybody knows that the only turkey here with cold feet is Debbo. Man the guy's literarily a one man show with no backup here. Even Truthy ain't going to go for the post of FALLGUY for Debbo's HICKORY DICKORY DOCK garbage that will make Truthy look like an idiot, unless of course Truthy is Debbo in another multinick.

Coherant also means "sticking together". That again isn't happening here for Debbo cos' Debbo's the lonely Humpty Dumpty wobbling on the wall just waiting to take the lonesome fall.

Then again finally, the only COHERENT that fits Debbo really tight is the "Coherent" used in Physics that means relating to, or having waves with similar direction, amplitude, and phase that are capable of exhibiting interference as in a TSUNAMI. Like in being washed away miserably for not being able to put up a strong defence at all. LOL

SO DO YOU AGREE THAT THE 2:23 IS A PERFECT OBJECTIVE CRITERIA?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 12-3-2005 at 01:27 AM ]

Can i?

have you ever heard of the Quranic miracle?
These a verse saying that:
"Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. And the night as it passes. And the morning as it shines. This is one of the great miracles."  [74:32-35]  

have you ever heard of the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran?
The Quran is mathematically composed.

here's a couple of simple contohs:
1.  The first verse (1:1),known as "Basmalah," consists of 19 letters.
2. The Quran consists of 114 suras, which is ..............19 x 6.
3. The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or ....19 x 334. [6234 numbered verses & 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs) 6234+112 = 6346] Note that 6+3+4+6 =.......19.
4. The Basmalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27) & 114= 19x6.
5. From the missing Basmalah of Sura 9 to the extra Basmalah of Sura 27, there are precisely ...............19 suras.
6. It follows that the total of the sura numbers from 9 to 27 (9+10+11+12+...+26+27) is 342, or .............19 x 18.
7. This total (342) also equals the number of words between the two Basmalahs of Sura 27, and 342 = ........19 x 18.
8. The famous first revelation (96:1-5) consists of .......19 words.
9. This 19-worded first revelation consists of 76 letters .19 x 4.
10. Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists of .....................................................19 verses.
11. This first chronological sura is placed atop the last ..19 suras.
12. Sura 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, and 304 equals .19 x 16.
13. The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of ............19 words.
14. The first verse of the last revelation (110:1) consists of ................19 letters.
15. 14 different Arabic letters, form 14 different sets of "Quranic Initials" (such as A.L.M. of 2:1), and prefix 29 suras. These numbers add up to 14+14+29 = 57 = ......19 x 3.
16. The total of the 29 sura numbers where the Quranic Initials occur is 2+3+7+...+50+68 = 822, and 822+14 (14 sets of initials) equals 836, or ................. 19 x 44.
17. Between the first initialed sura (Sura 2) and the last initialed sura (Sura 68) there are 38 un-initialed suras 19 x 2.
18. Between the first and last initialed sura there are ....19 sets of alternating "initialed" and "un-initialed" suras.
19. The Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, & 100,000. The sum of these numbers is 162146, which equals 19x8534.

if ya'll tak puas hati, checklah sendiri.

as you can see nineteen is the common denominator throughout the Quran's mathematical system. Is this humanly possible?


ok...a challenge...[2:23] If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.

Debmey

Thew number 19 hoax of Quran exposed. http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html


BTW, didn't muslims says that i get to chose any sura i like for comparison? Getting cold feet for allah again?

If you think of it as that...then don't listen to me.

oklah...let say that it isn't a hoax.
Try to produce a sura like these according to that.

Try. Then you'll see the logic behind that challenge.

Debmey

Am i not comparing against the quran. Since the Quran does not contain the number 19 miracle, why shld i need to produce the same?