Wanita mati otak dikekalkan hidup demi fetus dalam rahim

Changa

dani-rox posted on 21-12-2014 02:24 PM
My thoughts exactly.
Kesian memang kesian dgn fetus beliyaw, tp si ibu tu dah brain dead... Hak  ...

sekarang kalau anak sis cacat, belum lahir dah boleh tahu sis.
tak perlu tunggu beranak ikut faraj baharu tahu cacat ke tidak sis.

Syd

mbhcsf posted on 21-12-2014 02:08 AM
wow ...cool...yups save the baby. Kalau ibu tu tak ada 'locked - in ' syndrome tak pe. tapi bagi bab ...

itu la etika yang dipegang dek2 doktor2 tu kan sis?
nomot satu, nyawa selamat dulu

itu atuk nenek tak suka ke apa, kena tunggu

Syd

Changa posted on 21-12-2014 04:50 PM
sekarang kalau anak sis cacat, belum lahir dah boleh tahu sis.
tak perlu tunggu beranak ikut fara ...

yup,
doc awal lagi dah tau.

anak down syndrom ke apa
jantung senget ke
degupan tak normal etc

Suchi

jazaa posted on 21-12-2014 01:16 AM
Knp parents dia tak setuju pulakkk....

kan.. atleast baby ade peluang nk hidup.. takkan nk bunuh baby tu gaj

intan_smsb

sedih jugak

xdielzx

lina21 posted on 21-12-2014 06:57 AM
kesian lah dengan si ibu
badan msti membengkak...lebam2..lps tu mereput sikit2
tapi otak dah mati. ...

bukannya jadi mayat lg ibu tu nak membengkak mereput bagai :O

JDT

Macam mana fetus tu dapat nutrisi? Doktor masukkan dalam drip ke?..,maaf, saya kurang pengetahuan dalam bidang ni?

jazaa

Suchi posted on 21-12-2014 05:02 PM
kan.. atleast baby ade peluang nk hidup.. takkan nk bunuh baby tu gaj

Tu lah...sepatutnya dorang bersyukur sbb ada waris kann...
Klu dibantu dgn alat pernafasan, bknnya bdn dia mereput pun...cuma dia tak de tindakbalas je....

naina

Tula.bby tu nk dpt zat dr mana? Melalui injection ke ibu ke?
Iols pernah trpk bnda ni sblm ni.xsangka benar2 berlaku

naina

Tula.bby tu nk dpt zat dr mana? Melalui injection ke ibu ke?
Iols pernah trpk bnda ni sblm ni.xsangka benar2 berlaku

jazaa

JDT posted on 21-12-2014 05:57 PM
Macam mana fetus tu dapat nutrisi? Doktor masukkan dalam drip ke?..,maaf, saya kurang pengetahuan da ...

Jap kita panggil tuan doktor...


@addamnor ....tlg explain..

dani-rox

Dari sudut pandangan pakar perubatan

Key questions that arise when a pregnant woman is on life support

Rare cases where a young woman in the relatively early stages of pregnancy is declared brain dead, such as the case that arose this week, raise a host of moral, ethical, biological and legal issues. In an Irish context must be added the constitutional factors brought about by the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution.

The woman in her 20s, on life support and at the centre of the current controversy, is about 16 weeks pregnant. She is reported to be brain dead – which means she would have lost function of her brain stem, the area at the base of the brain that drives breathing, circulation and other involuntary activities that keep the body alive. It means the woman is now being mechanically ventilated, with specific interventions to maintain cardiac and kidney function. She would be receiving full nutritional support and will be hydrated to keep her body within normal metabolic parameters.

Looking at the biological and medical issues in the first instance, key questions include how long can a foetus survive inside a mother who is brain dead, when is the correct time to deliver the baby by Caesarean section and what is the baby’s long-term outlook assuming it is delivered safely.

Because of their rarity, all doctors have to guide them are individual case reports. A 2010 systematic review of the management of brain-dead pregnant mothers carried out by doctors at the University of Heidelberg found just 30 cases worldwide in a 28-year period. In 12 of those cases a viable child was delivered after extensive life support for the mother.

Although they found no clear lower limit to the gestational stage which would restrict a doctor’s efforts to support both the mother and the foetus, the authors clearly state that the older the baby is when its mother is declared brain-dead, the greater its chance of survival. They found no information on how these children fared in the longer term.

We know from birth statistics that a baby born at 24 weeks has a 20 to 30 per cent chance of survival and a 40 per cent chance of being left with a severe disability. By 28 weeks there is an 80 per cent survival rate and a 10 per cent risk of severe handicap, while a baby delivered at 32 weeks has a 98 per cent chance of survival, with less than 2 per cent of these babies suffering serious disability.

In the patients identified by the German researchers, the longest a brain-dead mother received life support was 107 days; the average was a more modest 38 days.

Complications

In the current Irish case, doctors are likely to delay delivery until the baby is 34 weeks, which would require a further 18 weeks or so (approximately 126 days) of intensive life support for this target to be reached. In general the longer such an intensive care period would be, the more likely it is that a mother would develop complications such as infection, heart failure, acute respiratory distress syndrome and severe blood-clotting problems – all of which could cause the baby’s death if the functioning of the placenta was seriously compromised.

Ethical and legal considerations are of course paramount in a case such as this. When faced with brain death in a pregnant woman, a physician’s initial focus must be on saving the life of the foetus. In the later stages of pregnancy, this will involve supporting the mother until a Caesarean section can be carried out.

However, in early pregnancy brain death, the issue is more complex. The right to life of the mother and foetus help guide doctors to make decisions on an individual basis. In general, if prolonging the mother’s life is likely to have a positive outcome for the foetus then such intervention would be considered ethical.

However, the gestational age of the baby is a key factor in making this decision; many doctors across Europe faced with a brain-dead pregnant woman whose foetus was 16 weeks gestation, would be reluctant, on ethical grounds, to recommend life support for the mother.

Autonomous rights

Another view promotes a right-to-die argument on the woman’s part. Legally, issues that arise include whether a mother in such a situation could be considered what the medico-legal experts would term a “cadaveric incubator”. If so, and it can be argued that such a woman has no autonomous rights, then the rights of the foetus would prevail. Others have put forward the view that prolonged life support is in itself a form of organ donation to the baby.

In Ireland, two legal realities trump other considerations. One is the 2013 Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act; the other is the 1983 amendment to the Constitution. In practice, doctors treating the woman in a case such as the one that has been reported this week could not use ethical principles alone to guide their decision-making. Not because they are invalid but because the Constitution renders them effectively irrelevant.

It is not possible for statutory legislation to cover rare events, such as the case that came to light this week. It would be much healthier, in every sense of the word, if doctors and other healthcare professionals could approach each challenging case on its own ethical merits. Dr Muiris Houston is The Irish Times health analyst

irishtimes.com

dani-rox

Dari sudut pandangan feminism dan kemanusiaan.

A brain-dead Irish woman’s body is being used as an incubator. Be angry

In Ireland, a woman who is clinically dead but 17 weeks pregnant is being kept alive against her family’s will. At this painful time, her relatives must go to court to stop the Irish state treating their loved one’s body as a cadaveric incubator.

Do those facts emotionally affect you? Then please calm down. What we need here is balance. Indeed, the Irish media considers it a moral virtue to trot out pro-life arguments alongside the facts of each and every new horror story that arises from Ireland’s abortion laws. There are two sides to this debate, after all. And Taoiseach Enda Kenny has cautioned us against “knee-jerk” reactions to sensitive cases such as this. What is the opposite of a knee-jerk reaction? Is it a tropism towards the light so slow that we wither and die in the dark? Because I think that might be a more fitting analogy here.

In 1983, due largely to pressure from Catholic lobby groups, Ireland became, as Fintan O’Toole puts it, the only country in the democratic world to have a constitutional ban on abortion. The eighth amendment holds that the right to life of a pregnant woman cannot be privileged over that of a foetus. In 1992 a high court judge ruled that a suicidal teenage rape victim, Miss X, had the right to abortion. Due largely to pressure from the Catholic right, it took the Irish government more than 20 years to legislate for the case. Finally, in 2013, after the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar in 2012, it did so. This resulted in the protection of life during pregnancy bill, which, as the Abortion Rights Campaign argued at the time, was so restrictive that it was doubtful whether it would enable a suicidal teenage rape victim to access abortion at all.

The ARC was not just correct, but prophetic. This year, a suicidal teenage victim of rape and torture (Miss Y) was forced to carry her pregnancy to viability and deliver by C-section. And now we have a clinically dead woman being ventilated and fed for the sake of an insentient foetus, while her heartbroken family takes legal action in order to mourn her.

But we mustn’t get emotional. There’s no political appetite for another abortion debate. Kenny has already dealt with this issue. The passing of the protection of life during pregnancy bill last year was very difficult for him and his party. He deserves a pat on the back for legislating at all.

If you must discuss this case, do so cooly: in terms, perhaps, of its potential effects on the career prospects of male politicians? Is the ambitious Leo Varadkar, the health minister, using this case opportunistically? What might it mean for the future leadership of Fine Gael? That’s what matters here. Women’s bodies, women’s lives, women’s rights: those are messy, incendiary topics, best avoided.

However, you can’t just say “no comment” if you’re the taoiseach. It might look cold. And so, Kenny, while carefully strapping his knees to the legs of a chair lest they betray some kind of humanity, recommends a careful measure of empathy: “Let anybody put themselves in the position of this family,” he says. And I can’t help but wonder if he can countenance this kind of empathy because it allows him a male subject position.

Let anybody put themselves in the position of this family. Then let anybody put themselves in the position of Savita Halappanavar, in pain, miscarrying, at increased risk of septicaemia, denied an abortion. Or of Miss Y, raped, seeking asylum in a country that bureaucratically continues her torture. Or of a woman told her foetus has a fatal abnormality but that she must continue to carry it. Or of a terrified teenage girl waiting for the abortifacient pills she ordered from some dodgy website. Or of a mother-of-two, going through a marriage breakup, who finds she is pregnant. Or of any of the women who contact Mara Clarke’s Abortion Support Network, asking for help to cross the Irish channel, each with their stories, each with their reasons.

Women’s experiences are routinely erased from Irish discourse on abortion. Our government and media won’t engage with the reality of living in a body that gets pregnant. When others do, they are dismissed as irrational, emotive: feminine.

Objectivity, historian Helen Graham once said, is not an equidistant position between any two points. It is right to be angry and upset in the face of injustice. 2014 has shown us the truth about the contempt for women underlying Kenny’s new legislation.

Be angry that a dead woman’s body is being used as an incubator. Be upset that Miss Y was forced to carry her rapist’s child to 24 weeks. These are women’s bodies. These are women’s lives. And that is what matters here.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/19/dead-irish-woman-body-incubator-abortion

mbhcsf

1. Foetus tu masih hidup carry on
2. Memang ibu tu brain dead dan ada complications in intensive care therapy unit
3.situasinya bagi saya complicated dgn ethical issues.
4. Mcm ni kalau ajal ibu tu dengan pelbagai asbab yakni complications semua dan foetus tu tak viable pun, do dedua akan meninggal so tak rugi apa apa pun
5. Kalau switch off the  ventilator atau alat bantuan pernafasan tu ketika foetus tu menunjukkan life sustaining effort sangatlah unethical

6. Lebih baik bagi foetus tu hidup till ay least 37 weeks or doctor stimulate pengeluaran surfactant dlm peparu satu bhn yg amat penting untuk lungs berfungsi dalam persekitaran berudaraketika lahir, kena ingat ya, kita dlm rahim suasana dlm aquous environment atau berair pernafasan atau pertukaran gas melalui placenta ke sistem darah anak...
7. Intensive care unit tu bukan unit passive ade je anaesthetist, physio, specialist nurses, etc yg dok monitor...so to reduce complications so diapa yg familiar ITU OR ICU europe tahula

8. Masyarakat barat ni viewing death ni menarik pada depa ada mati yg tak menyakitkan atau menyakitkan...kitayg islam sedia maklum yg well...sebab tu ada euthanasia concept bagai...even pada haiwan i am unsure legal ke tak secara syariah frasa selalu dengar 'put to sleep'

9. I sokong selagi mana dpt sustain, sustain....do no harm...first medical ethics, dlm konteks ni foetus tu...sebab nampak tak ada pun showing sign of foetal distress that means meconium ke, CTG abnormals ke...

mbhcsf

The child is a child, tak perlu pun nak bubuh rapist's child ke...sebab ini human g tak salah.

Amboi kat sini boleh nampak ye hak asasi berasaskan penilaian mana kita guna pakai?

mbhcsf

So key question? What is life?hmm?how would know that you are alive?
Apa beza coma,vegetative state? Locked in syndrome?

U tengok segala journal cara health care classify ...u know yg kita tak tahu banyak lagi pun..,yg ada so far adequate untuk tahu yg brain tu mati as in not functioning based on findings. A topic for debate or reseach.

mbhcsf

Kat sini satu nyawa dlm badan seorang ibu hidup....tak show pun signs of deterioration


So sapa sanggup matikan ventilator and let the foetus die innaturally?

I tak sanggup...

dani-rox

Hak fetus bwh 16 minggu > Hak wanita dewasa. Okay.

Badut.Sarkas

In 1 part of world,  fetus cube diselamatkan.. in another part of the world, kanak2 mati ditembak. Science and religion.. I know which one I will choose

mbhcsf

dani-rox posted on 21-12-2014 08:09 PM
Hak fetus bwh 16 minggu > Hak wanita dewasa. Okay.

4 months foetus cuma nak prolong at least 34 minggu to37 weeks...

Sebab tu bila fitrah dikecualikan susah. Dah tergaru kepala nyawa dan jasad milik sapa.