TLDM uji misil OTOMAT

nando

betul kata-kata mu kalau utk satu  & 2 ujian. tapi seban tahun sejak tldm ada missil exocet 70 an sampai sekarang, tiada satu pun ujian pakai "moving target" ke?

I punya view ialah % hentam kapal bergerak banyak kurang berbanding dgn kapa static.Value missil itu banyak bergantung cara ia mengesan & keep track ia punnya target serta tidak termakan ECM musuh dan bukan ianya punya range shj. Buat apa guna, missil boleh pergi jauh-jauh tapi mudah kena tipu oleh ECM musuh atau kurang manuover bila target buat radical "arah" pandu. kalau silap, tolong bagi tau.

kimyee73

Missile dah nak expire, kena lah buat test fire, tak membazir.

nando

Lepas itu boleh jual kat kedai besi buruk!

tin

pertama-tamanya kebanyakan test dibuat hanya untuk validation sahaja. iaitu untuk menunjukkan keupayaan tu ada dan boleh dilakukan. jadinya tak perlu untuk persediaan yang belbagai. cukup satu target yang statik. kalo tak kena tu maknanya missile hampeh la.

kalo ujian komprehensif tu ada pernah buat rasanya. wa ingat2 lupa. lu kan duduk mindef, lu tanya la pegawai TLDM kat Markas TLDM. tapi seingat wa ada satu test  yang exocet mana kena jam dan kena chaff. tak pasti kena target ke idak. I maybe mistaken.

perlu diingat, test mcm ni cukup merbahaya dan cukup mahal. kalo mampu buat pon sekali sekala je dlm satu dekad. bahayanya, bila missile tu dah kena jam, takut dia terpesong dan lock target lain pulak. mcm yang terjadi kat kapal HMS Sir Galahad masa perang Falklands dulu. karang tak pasal2 TLDM pulak yang jenuh menjawab.

tin

tak jugak.

missile yang dah expired tu kena refurbish laa... ganti benda yang dah rosak dan litar elektronik serta program serangan terbaru. kalo mau kick lagi, ganti warhead baru

kita masih lagi mempunyai MM38 Exocet yang sepatutnya dah expired lama dah dan masih boleh digunakan. beberapa bijik dah ditest tembak pon.

malarky

tin.... MM38 boleh upgrade jd MM40 ka?

tin

whoa!!!

soklan lu dasat aaa malarky

ermmm... wa bukan pakar atau jurutera peluru berpandu TLDM. so wa tatau laaa boleh upgrade ke tidak.

tetapi wa rasa la. wa rasa tableh. sebab kalo boleh, dah lama FAC(M) kita pakai MM40.

MBDA pon nak buat duit bertan2 jugak bro

kapakterbang

otomat nih mmg pilihan utama kelas laksamana ke sbb dah siap pasang... so tldm aci ambik ajer...

malarky

MBDA tu daar orng meniaga...mmg ler diorang suruh beli baru....

nando

wa teriklan ujian starburst oleh rmaf (tak silap wa tahun lepas-lepas) dlm satu eks. Kapal terbang falcon digunakan utk tarik satu drone diguna sebagai moving target. wa tak silap ingat ada satu orang tembak starburst missil kena tepat sekali lagi drone itu. Penembak itu pakai optic shj utk pandu missil ke drone itu.

tin

starburst nih bukan senang mau handle. sebabnya dia pakai panduan laser dan operator kena guide peluru berpandu ke sasaran.  itu perlu keyakinan tinggi dan motor function yang tepat untuk kasik kena pada sasaran. tu sebabnya hanya orang2 tertentu je yang mampu kendalikan starburst nih. cuba lu tengok eks yg lepas2, musti ada operator yang sama

ntah-ntah setiap tahun mmg orang yg sama.

yellowfin

Tak silap wa pernah terbaca 6 bijik otomat boleh tenggelamkan Aircraft Carrier dlm masa 1/2 jam jer..

wah kl betul...kecik2 cili padi Laksamana ni rupanya...

nando

u mean ronald reegan atau thai punya carrier?

areguard

Mamat kat Milnuts takajut TLDM dah join OTH club..depa punya Navy pun belum bulih lagi buat OTH ni..

belacan79

Artikel konfuse OTH(over the horizon) targeting using redar atau sensor with mid-course guidance for misel(depend on misel. some misel has it some dun) using datalink to ship dan heli.

SG memang dah ader OTH dah lamer. Including Thai. That why they have MPA Foker dan UAV berbagai-bagai.

But here we talk abt mid-course guidance for thier harpoon or atack misel using datalink to ship dan heli. Not OTH targeting. So far, only Isreal harpoon has such mid course guidance for harpoon. Upgred sendiri with US permision.

So SG big brother Isreal has it for thier kurent harpoon. Sg never say they has it or dun has it. But look at thier suport equipmen like MPA, AWAC and UAV. You think they has it ? Or some other Isreal, USA misel in thier inventori which has it?

New Harpoon 3 upgred will be coming out next year till 2010 which will have beter mid corse guidance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Harpoon

[ Last edited by  belacan79 at 27-9-2008 01:09 AM ]

razhar

pakai brahmos sebijik je...

areguard

Ada bapak orang kata utk midcourse correction, pecularity Otomat ni misel tu  kena passed betul2 bawah Lynx tu baru boleh buat corrections, pendek kata misel tu kena lancar directly at the heli baru buat course corrections... Itu mcm kalu pilot lynx tu kena bnyk2 shalawat masa nak pergi misi..ini ada betui ke belacan??

[ Last edited by  areguard at 27-9-2008 05:53 AM ]

tin

unfortunately, yes...

"TESEO system requires that the missile fly under the helicopter, allowing the engagement of only one target at a time (even if with two missiles), the missiles must be launched to helicopter and so, this one must fly practically fixed for several minutes, while the missiles must fly a longer flight path, being this launch a non linear flight path." - Wikipedia.

"TESEO is used by the Italian Navy Marina Militare (MMI or MM) and not allowing updated from the ship, don't needs altitude variations in the flight for missiles.
The limiting factor with the Otomat as incorporated in the TESEO system is that the Helo platform used for update has a limited radar range of no more than 60 km (with a 2,000 m2 RCS target, typically a frigate or destroyer), and will be hovering and stationary to allow the missile to fly under it and guide Otomat to its target. If the target ship has a medium range SAM suite like RIM-66 Standard missiles, and is aware of the danger (with radar and ESM suites), the helo's lifespan could be limited to mere seconds, as it is much bigger than anti-ship missiles." - Wikipedia

there's another mid course guidance system called ERATO.

"The ERATO (Extended Range Air Targeting for Otomat) system, used by the Al-Madinah class frigates, is the French version for mid-course guidance of the Otomat missile. In this case updated target information is provided to the ship which controls up to 16 missiles. This allows a multi-ship launch (Madinas have eight missiles each) and single ship control of an Otomat salvo for coordinated attack. The downside of this system is that the Otomat missile must rise to a 900 meter alitude to achieved uplink data. This could theorically warn a target ship of the impending attack, but there are few possibilities to notice such small missiles at ranges of more than few dozens kilometeres. Maximum range for data-link is 100 km, limiting somewhat the missile's maximum range. It's possible to send up to six corrections for each missile, and attack up to six differently targets at once. Consolles are called CLIO, integrated with ship's combat system." - wikipedia

However, ERATO is no longer marketed and used exclusively by Royal Saudi Navy.


but....

missiles used by Laksamana class are from Otomat Mk 2 Block III (or Mod 4) with new INS navigation system, insensitive warhead, new, safer solid propellent for boosters, improved data link to allow TESEO to guide missiles also from the ship directly.   

Otomat Mk 2 Block IV (or Mod 4) standard which is far better and has more capabilities which is equivalent to Italian Navy TESEO Mk 2/A in which is equivalent to Harpoon II. this missile with a new electronic set, partially derived from Marte Mk 2/S missile program. The TG-2 (data-link for helicopters) is abolished, because the ship is capable to guide the missile directly (as happened with ERATO) with information given by external platform with OTH engagements. The missile is capable of: re-attack, 3-D mission planning, coordinate attacks, capability to operate in littoral theaters, and attack with terminal evasive maneuvers. GPS is added and so the weapon can attack also land targets. - wikipedia

All existing Otomat missiles can be upgraded to Mod 4 standard.

while there is no known combat use of Otomat but there were many tests, like the one happened in 1987, when a Venezuelan Lupo frigate hit an old US destroyer used as target at 122 km, leaving a 6 m crater. Flight took a little over than 400 secs. In another example at least 8 missiles were bought by US Navy: thanks to a new evasive, final manoeuvre, the majority of these missiles penetrated inside the formidable missile defenses of US ships.- wikipedia

areguard

Bro, what about the Exocet MM40 Blok II on other RMN platforms? Boleh buat OTH dan midcourse corrections jugak ke mcm Otomat ni??

tin

errr... kalo tak salah wa, MM38 Exocet tak leh buat OTH dan midcourse corrections. tak guna pon sebab range dia cuma 40km je.

MM40 Block II boleh buat OTH tapi takleh buat midcourse corrections. range dia 70km. OTH targeting dibuat oleh heli guna radar pastu hantar pakai datalink kpd kapal. FCS kapal set kedudukan target pastu launch Excocet. missile ni akan bergerak ke arah kawasan di mana sasaran dijangka berada. bila dah dekat, dia akan on dia punya radar, reacquire target, perbetul course pastuh BOOM!!!!   

Dlm hal ini, exposure heli dan kapal adalah minima sahaja sebab heli cuma perlu kesan sasaran kat mana je. lepas Exocet suda launch, dah boleh blah dah.