Is Fuzzy Ashame Of Mohamed's Behavior?

Debmey

There is no trade sir, what is there to trade when you have no answers to Muhamad's obvious paedophilia?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-10-2006 11:14 PM
There is no trade sir, what is there to trade when you have no answers to Muhamad's obvious paedophilia?

Self-imolation exists. Self-mutilation exists. Self character assasination exists here and it comes from you. Hahahaha.
You say I have no answers for defence of the prophet over the paedo charge? I have all the answers but I want it to come from your mouth. That is why I want you to talk about Asma. You fear that very much to the extent you wrote this in post #37:-  Asma's age? Who cares fuzzy. All we care about is Aisha's age when she was married and her marriahge consumated"

My answer to Aishah's age lies in the age of Asma who was ten years older than Aishah. Timeline records prove that in tandem with historical events, Aishah's age could not have been 9 when she married the prophet of Islam. You know that for a fact. That is why you chose to ignore Asma altogether. I'm happy to note that all those who follow this thread will know you for your worth.  

Another laugh would be that you quote Tabari but refuse Tabari's mention of Aishah as "bikr" [young maiden]. Ohh there is trade in here and it is very much alive here Debmey. The item we're trading here is your CREDIBILITY. Ahahahahaa.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You are absolutely in denial Fuzzy and you are a liar.

Tabari has already stated many times in his records that Aisha was married at 6 and Mo had sex with her when she was only 9 years old.

These ages are also corroborated by hadith al Bukhari which is considered the most authoritative of all hadiths. It doesn't take a genius to know that there was no mistake in these records.

Your mention of Asma's age is pure speculation, with no evidence at all and meant to be a lame distraction.

Answer me fuzzy, why are you so ashamed of Muhamad's paedophilia? What is there to be ashamed of?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-10-2006 11:57 PM:
You are absolutely in denial Fuzzy and you are a liar. Tabari has already stated many times in his records that Aisha was married at 6 and Mo had sex with her when she was only 9 years old.

Me a liar? Hohohoho you'd better cool it my friend in Christ. It's your credilbility on the line here not me. Tabari was mirror parroting Al-Bukhary. In addition to that in Tabari, Volume 9, page 29, you had chose to igore the fact that Tabari contridicted himself again by reporting the conversation between Khawlah bint Hakim and Prophet Mohammad where Tabari recorded Aishah as being mentioned as "bikr" - meaning a young maiden and not "jariyah" - meanig child. Don't you trust Tabari? Ahahahaha.

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-10-2006 11:57 PM:
These ages are also corroborated by hadith al Bukhari which is considered the most authoritative of all hadiths. It doesn't take a genius to know that there was no mistake in these records. Your mention of Asma's age is pure speculation, with no evidence at all and meant to be a lame distraction.

Asma's age is no speculation my friend in Christ. According to almost all the historians Asma, the elder sister of Ayesha was ten years older than Aishah. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aishah should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage. What is written is facts and not speculation. Now try debunking those timeline facts if you can.

The only lame distraction in here comes from you with your lameduck credibility, you try so hard to cloak real facts with your lies, planned ignorance and deceit, but as always Fuzzman prevails all the time.

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-10-2006 11:57 PM:
Answer me fuzzy, why are you so ashamed of Muhamad's paedophilia? What is there to be ashamed of?

My dear friend in Christ. May the blood of Christ wash over your ignorance so that you may be at peace with your soul. I donate three graces to that effect. Now my friend if ever my prophet was guilty of being a paedo - so be it. I will accept that accusation if it be true. No turning back on that. So you see there is nothing to be ashamed about on my part of the deal and bargain. But what I'm truly ashamed over is you, my friend in the dear Lord Christ. You make shame for the dear Lord Jesus Christ, Savior of the After Life. You try so hard to discredit my prophet while galring and sharp evidences exist to show that there is contradiction with regards to the true age of Aishah when she married my prophet. I have put up the evidences for all to see and almost everybody should be able to vouch for that evidential presentation effort on my part to grovel you into dirt. You no the other foot, refuse to even engage, speak, talk, argue, grumble, reason or even point out rebuttals against them. So you see I'm only ashamed of ever meeting a born loser like you who fears polemical failure, when you already are. Ahahahaha.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by  Fuzzman at 25-10-2006 12:45 AM ]

Debmey

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 25-10-2006 12:42 AM
Me a liar? Hohohoho you'd better cool it my friend in Christ.

Fren in Christ? You mean you accept Jesus as savior?
You see, you don't even know what you are tlaking about, how can you be an ex-Christian? Ahahahahahaha....................

It's your credilbility on the line here not me. Tabari was mirror parroting Al-Bukhary.

How do you know? You mean you are smarter than both Al Tabari & Al Bukhari? Hwo abt you being smarter than mohamed?

In addition to that in Tabari, Volume 9, page 29, you had chose to igore the fact that Tabari contridicted himself again by reporting the conversation between Khawlah bint Hakim and Prophet Mohammad where Tabari recorded Aishah as being mentioned as "bikr" - meaning a young maiden and not "jariyah" - meanig child. Don't you trust Tabari? Ahahahaha.

You can certainly call a young girl a young maiden if that is what it means. Where is the contradiction.
Is there anywhere that says that a 9 year old girl cannot be called a bikr? Please show us so we can verify what you said.

Asma's age is no speculation my friend in Christ. According to almost all the historians Asma, the elder sister of Ayesha was ten years older than Aishah. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aishah should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage. What is written is facts and not speculation. Now try debunking those timeline facts if you can..

Proof please. Primary source please, not claims.


cheers

Leybra

I want to help Fuzzman but my english is not good. What can I say, keep it up bro.. I will always support you..

Debmey

Dear Siti,

You may want to help Fuzzy because you were born Muslim, but numbers don't count on this one sis. It reason, logic and hard evidence.
Sadly, you can't help Fuzzy on this one and neither can anyone. Nope, denial and bigotry won't do me frens.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Leybra at 26-10-2006 09:25 PM
I want to help Fuzzman but my english is not good. What can I say, keep it up bro.. I will always support you..

Thank you for wanting to help me out. Believe it or not but it is voices like yours that beacon and aids my cause in RF.  At least it shows Debmey that true support is better than self-created nicks being used by him. LOL

Thank you again.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-10-2006 11:15 PM
Dear Siti,
You may want to help Fuzzy because you were born Muslim, but numbers don't count on this one sis. It reason, logic and hard evidence. Sadly, you can't help Fuzzy on this one and neither can anyone. Nope, denial and bigotry won't do me frens.

Oh don't you go believing in  him Leybra. The only reason Debmey is not "performing" well in this thread of his is due to the fact that it is [ironically] NUMBERS THAT crunched him real good and hard. Debmey's stuck in a handful of hadith NUMBERS from Bukhary and Tabari while Debmey can't even get over answering not even one of my responses. Debmey's definately in DENIAL and SELF-CREATED bigotry.

If it is reason, logic and hard evidences that Debmey really sincerely wants, then he's come to the right post. Eat this Debmey. It's got your name in it. Try crunchnig them [ in red] if you can which surely you 2:23 can't Ahahahahaha.

According to hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteenwas allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am抯 son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.

Tabari also reportsthat Abu Bakr抯 four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah, the pre Islamic period, which could be said to have ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE.

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was thirty-five years old, meaning Aisha was born when he was forty years old, and thus twelve when Muhammad married at fifty-two.

According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur抋n , was revealed, 揑 was a young girl

Debmey

Dear of dear Fuzzy,

What you claim are plain wild assumptions with no evidence to support what you said.

The very sources you quoted states the following :


From Tabari, volume 7, page7:
            "....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."

From Tabari, volume 9, page 131

            "Then the men and women got up and left.  The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old.  Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal.  She was eighteen years old when he died.

Deal with that Fuzzy. Not with baseless claims but with hard evidenses like me.

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-10-2006 06:24 AM
Dear of dear Fuzzy,

What you claim are plain wild assumptions with no evidence to support what you said.

The very sources you quoted states the following :


From Tabari, volume 7, page7: ...

Muahaha, u are a rotten parrot who just sing the old song again and again. U cant answer Fuzzman's questions. U LOSER !!

Debmey

You expect me to be so stupid as to go along with a weak strawman argument that has no basis? All when teh very same source that Fuzzy took from says that Mo had sex with Aisha when ahe was only 9 years old?

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-10-2006 10:20 PM
You expect me to be so stupid as to go along with a weak strawman argument that has no basis? All when teh very same source that Fuzzy took from says that Mo had sex with Aisha when ahe was only 9  ...

Weak argument ? U are afraid to talk about Aisha's sister asma's age. Why afraid ?

Debmey

What is there to talk when all Fuzzy had was wild claims with no evidence and he does nothing to back up his claims?

Muslims in denial like you and fuzzy are however afarid to discuss verses in hadiths and tabari that clear says that mo had sex wiutha 9 year old aisha.

what else?

Fuzzman

Yeah SilentKiller's got a very good suggestion for yer Debmey? Why don't you want to discuss Asma's age? After all Asma was not married to the prophet IS SHE? I'm very sure then, Asma will be of no intimidation to you, as Aishah largely is. So it should be fairly easy for you to breeze through Asma's age discussion.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by  Fuzzman at 30-10-2006 12:59 AM ]

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-10-2006 06:24 AM
Dear of dear Fuzzy,
What you claim are plain wild assumptions with no evidence to support what you said.
The very sources you quoted states the following :
Deal with that Fuzzy. Not with baseless claims but with hard evidenses like me.

C'mon Debmey it is very rude of you to turn away sincere invitations. You're behaving like a individual who is lost of religion and self-worth. Why don't you put your self-dignity and most importantly - CREDIBILITY back on track by taking on the red highlights of post #49.Are you  finding it rather difficult in hammering home the paedo charge on my prophet? Looks to me like you're struggling really hard on your lonesome.Pity you for if I were still your brother in Christ, I would have helped you out very easily. Since I ain't you're gonna pay if you stray.

ARI FUZZMAN

Jamaloogy

hey man...
this topic turn into a hot debate among us... lets cool down k?

what wrong  with 9 year old aisha if

1) she is biologically matured --- at least, but I do believe she is mentally matured to..
what's the prob playing with doll, maybe she don't have something else to play.. today we also see adults still playing with toys running around (except it's sony PSP)

2) It might be the custom or some kind of "not so odd" practice back on that day.... pls do research on this dear sir... do not flaming around when some people raise concern about tis...

my 2 cents... salams and may god bless us all...

SquiZZ

By Jamaloogy: hey man...
this topic turn into a hot debate among us... lets cool down k?

- Yeah i know its a hot topic. The obvious question is, can muslim handle it?

1) she is biologically matured --- at least, but I do believe she is mentally matured to..
what's the prob playing with doll, maybe she don't have something else to play.. today we also see adults still playing with toys running around (except it's sony PSP) :D

- Nothing wrong with it, IF the said circumstances are true. But unfortunately no evidence to support the argument. According to Ibn Hajar, aisha havent reached puberty because she was allowed to play with dolls.

Shaykh al-Islam Imam Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-'Asqalani, Commander of the Faithful in Hadith, Qadi of Egypt, said regarding doll-playing and little girls:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 008, Book 073, Number 151

    Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

2) It might be the custom or some kind of "not so odd" practice back on that day.... pls do research on this dear sir... do not flaming around when some people raise concern about tis...

- Accepted custom does not make it morally correct. That custom can put Muhammad in jail if he have done it today. Because of Muhammad action, today many underaged girls are subjected to marriage in some arab countries.

Morality comes from Almighty God and from Him alone. However, if ones studies the Bible, it is plain to see that it is not a foundation for morality.  The people who promote "Biblical morality" pick and choose from the text as they please.  Only in Islam can one with good conscience accept "the whole package" without ignorantly or hypocritically denying things that they don't like.  This is how true internal peace and balance are achieved.  If one belongs to a religion  without accepting everything in its scripture (real or alleged) one is not only bearing false witness againt himself  but against God Almighty. With all the false ideas in the modern age, it's easy to be led astray.  The liberal Western morality that has now touched all corners of the globe is, culturally speaking, something like an eight-hundred pound gorilla. It's very hard to stand in its way or speak out against it. However, being encouraged by others to follow "vain desires" has been an eternal problem for mankind, as Almighty God makes clear in the Qur'an:




"Say: 'I will not follow your vain desires:
if I did I would stray from the path
and be not of the company of those who receive guidance.''

Qur'an - Surah al-An'aam - 6:56


The Prophet Muhammad  was a great example for all of humanity and peoples of different cultures (from "modern" Europeans to the aborigines of Australia). Not only was he a great Prophet and Messenger, but he was also a statesman, military leader, ruler, teacher, neighbor and friend.   Family life was one of the most important areas where he was a great example, since he was both a husband and a father.  Due to God's wisdom, His last and final prophet experienced a wide array of marriages and family situations.  Due to this, he is an example for people who are monogamous, for those who are polygamous, for those wishing to marry those older than themselves and for those wondering how early someone can rightfully marry. Muhammad  reestablished the Religion of Abraham so that it would continue to the Last Day.

[ Last edited by  KENNKID at 30-10-2006 12:12 PM ]