[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Debmey

So why do you deny what Aisha said abt her being taken to bed by Mo when she was only 9 years old?

Originally posted by Debmey at 2-3-2005 12:34 PM:


Where? please show me.

Extracts from Catholic Encyclopedia at www.newadvent.org

Canonical Age

... They divide the years of a man into seven ages, to wit: infancy, from the day of birth, not baptism (Sacr. Congr. Conc., 4 December, 1627), to the seventh year; childhood, 7-14; puberty, 14-25; majority (young manhood), 25-40; manhood, 40-50 or 60; old age, 60-70; decrepitude, 70-100, or death. The terminal year in each of the above ages must be complete. Canonical age is the year. fixed by the canons, or law of the Church, at which her subjects become capable of incurring certain obligations, enjoying special privileges, embracing special states of life, holding office or dignity, or receiving the sacraments.

Ordinary Christian Life

The marriageable age is fourteen full years in males and twelve full years in females, under penalty of nullity (unless natural puberty supplies the want of years). Marriages void because of the absence of legal or natural puberty are held as sponsalia, inducing thereby impediment of "public decorum" (Cap. 14, tit. de despon. impub., X, 4, 2). Civil codes generally require a more advanced age than the canonical.


From TITLE II of Book IV of Decretales

http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/maxpa ... 1/Decretales4-2.htm
C. 2.

Two prepubescents, or a prepubescent and one older, are not to be married, except for the sake of peace.

Pope Nicholas.

Where there is no consent [cf. C. 30 q. 2 c. 1]. (And following By the authority of this decree, we strictly prohibit for the future that either or both, who have not arrived at the age determined by the laws or the canons, be joined in marriage; unless there is a very urgent need that the union be tolerated for the sake of peace.

(NOTE:  But a pubescent and one older can marry!)

C. 3.

One reaches majority for marriage when one has the bodily capacity and can procreate children.


Isidore.

Pubescents are called from ``pubis,'' that is, they are named from the pudenda of the body when these places first bring forth soft hair.

Some think puberty depends on age, that is, when a boy has completed fourteen years he is pubescent, even when he becomes pubescent very late. But he certainly is pubescent when he shows puberty from the appearance of his body and is able to procreate. Girls are pubescent who can bear during the years of puberty.

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Debmey you are so daft.  If the Pope had allowed it, may be you should turn around and ask the Pope if he was a paedo too!  No wonder my clergies and priests following suit!

[ Last edited by samerosie on 2-3-2005 at 02:30 PM ]

aik, sutah ilang lagi ka Debmey?

Debmey

12 years old is three years older than 9. The Catholics are still better than you Muslims if indeed they do follow such rules.
Catholics are superior morally over Muslims, that you can be sure.

BTW, do you know that i am not a Catholic?

peace

Can't you read properly?  Oh, you're twisting the fact.  The fact is Debmey as I posted above, "The marriageable age is fourteen full years in males and twelve full years in females, under penalty of nullity (UNLESS NATURAL PUBERTY SUPPLIES THE WANT OF YEARS).  Which means, if the girl reaches puberty before the age of 12, she is able and can and allowed to be married.

BTW, do you know that the Pope is a CATHOLIC?  And so, according Catholism, your religion is a cult.  If you deny this and say that you are a Christian because as you can see and read the sub title says "ORDINARY CHRISTIAN LIFE", then you are denying the truth just like when you said the Muslims are.

[ Last edited by samerosie on 2-3-2005 at 06:09 PM ]

aenemy7

:lol :lol :lol

There's no way to accused huh???no more point to proof it was a phaedophile act??? so it was a marriage,u can't labelled a marriage couple a phaedophile right??? no matter what u try u can't proof it....even the hadith confirmed it was a marriage!

Allah Knows Best,Peace Yall....

DivinePonytail

No, no aenemy, we don't deny muhammad marry aisha, he did. Custom at that time may permit such marriage, but it doesn't make it right. In romans times, killing baby girl is considered a custom does that make it right you, does God allow such act?

same,
   Good arguments there. But its much better if you use islamic source for your defense for muhammad, not using the christians. Don't use the good christian names to justify muhammad paedophilia, don't drag the christians to the same level as muhammad.

But let see what you have proven here anyway;
1.The marriageable age is fourteen full years in males and twelve full years in females, under penalty of nullity (UNLESS NATURAL PUBERTY SUPPLIES THE WANT OF YEARS).  Which means, if the girl reaches puberty before the age of 12, she is able and can and allowed to be married.

What is youngest age for a girl to achieve puberty? Remember while the catholics, have these guidelines for marrige, they have to observe also another rule or law which is the "age of consent" in repective countries. While you at it named an important catholic leader that marries a girl age 12 or below.

Now compared that to muhammad, who marries a 6 YEAR OLD BABY.

Which is worse.

He was betrothed to Aisha when she was 6.  She lived with her parents until she was 9.  Can you explain why Mohammad waited 3 years?  If he was a paedo, he would've insisted that she live with him at 6 years of age.  The only way to explain this is that he had waited for her to reach puberty.

May be you missed the point, Islam and Christianity laws allows a person to contract a marriage only when he/she reaches puberty.  

What is youngest age to reach puberty? Don't you know? Oh I forget you're not a woman, a girl can get their first menstrual as young as 8 years of age.  You can verify this at any women's health website.

http://www.crha-health.ab.ca/hlthconn/items/growfem.htm

http://www.teenpuberty.com/index ... p;page=menstruation

http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/when_period.html

http://www.coolnurse.com/menstrual.htm

http://www.iwannaknow.org/puberty/girls.html


Remember while the catholics, have these guidelines for marrige, they have to observe also another rule or law which is the "age of consent" in repective countries. While you at it named an important catholic leader that marries a girl age 12 or below.
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Can you not be daft?  Can you name me any catholic leader that was/is married?  Tell me honestly, can you compare the culture of the 7th century to the current century?  Would you honestly think that if Mohammad was to live in the 20th century he would marry a 9 years old?  Or use camel as transportation?

As I said earlier, whilst the Christian law did not have any age of consent they follow the Roman law's age of consent which was 12 BUT they (the Christian/Catholic leaders) gave a PROVISION that in the event the persons reach puberty well BEFORE the age of consent, the persons could contract marriage then.

Gawd, honestly, how did you manage school?

[ Last edited by samerosie on 3-3-2005 at 12:00 PM ]

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by samerosie at 3-3-2005 11:49 AM:
He was betrothed to Aisha when she was 6.  She lived with her parents until she was 9.  Can you explain why Mohammad waited 3 years?  If he was a paedo, he would've insisted that she live with him  ...

And why did muhammad can't wait until aisha is 9 to marry her? Why the need to rush? And no, i didn't miss the point where in islam and christianity, when one reach puberty they can marry. Now did aisha reached puberty when she was married to muhammad at the age of 6?

And in muhammad case, we have to compare the culture of the 7th century to the current one. Why? because muhammad was supposed to be the perfect example of man for ALL TIME. Is His marriage to baby aisha is the perfect example of marriage?

And in case you don't know, first sign of puberty is not the sign of adulthood.
And i manage school quite well, thank you very much.

And why did muhammad can't wait until aisha is 9 to marry her? Why the need to rush? And no, i didn't miss the point where in islam and christianity, when one reach puberty they can marry. Now did aisha reached puberty when she was married to muhammad at the age of 6?

Read the hadith again, betrothed at 6, married at 9.  There is a difference between being betrothed and being married.

And in muhammad case, we have to compare the culture of the 7th century to the current one. Why? because muhammad was supposed to be the perfect example of man for ALL TIME. Is His marriage to baby aisha is the perfect example of marriage?

And so, if Jesus is like Mohammad to the Christians, he would've turned the other cheek when the other was slapped , I don't see you, Debmey or T8 turning the other cheek.  Like I said, and let me repeat here again, I ask you, if Mohammad was living in this century, Do you honestly think that he would've married a 9 years old.  Would he had still use camel as his transport?  Answer these, then we'll know if you are using your brain or your heart.

And in case you don't know, first sign of puberty is not the sign of adulthood.

And in case YOU don't know, the sign of puberty (adulthood) had always been taken as the first menstrual of girls.  Look at those website links I gave you, they are all about "reaching puberty" and age of girls when they have their first menstrual, some as soon as 8-9 years old and some as late as 14-16 years of age.

And i manage school quite well, thank you very much.

I doubt it.

[ Last edited by samerosie on 3-3-2005 at 01:52 PM ]

kyas

good one sam. thanks 4 d info.

Debmey

Nope, it clearly says married at 6 and consumated at 9. Either way, it was still paedophilia.

you expect us to 'turn the other cheek' and accept immorality?
'turning the other cheek' applies to authority, not to you.

kyas

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-2 10:14 AM:
From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old ..."

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:
"Narrated Urwa:  "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old ... "

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:
"Narrated Aisha:  The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six ..."

DivinePonytail

Read the hadith again, betrothed at 6, married at 9.  There is a difference between being betrothed and being married.

Okay i'm reading it again.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him)married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

Err..nope. Still married at the age 6.
Now thanks to you, we not only prove muhammad was a pedophile, he also broke the islamic rules, that a girl can only marry if she reach puberty.

kyas

does the so called 'marriage' completed when she was six... ?

[ Last edited by kyas on 3-3-2005 at 02:47 PM ]

DivinePonytail

Is there anything called uncomplete marriage????

kyas

so what does "consummated his marriage" means?

'turning the other cheek' applies to authority, not to you.
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Oh dear! Who is the authority Debmey cos as far I know, Jesus meant it to all his followers, LOVE THY ENEMIES.  Whose way of life have you been living Debmey cos if you deny this, it ain't Christian.

you expect us to 'turn the other cheek' and accept immorality?
------
No, I expect you to turn the other cheek and go home and study the ancient cultures and traditions.


Nope, it clearly says married at 6 and consumated at 9. Either way, it was still paedophilia
----
And still you have yet to answer me, I ask again, can you show proof that this marriage was Not Acceptable in the 7th Century.

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by samerosie at 3-3-2005 01:44 PM:

And so, if Jesus is like Mohammad to the Christians, he would've turned the other cheek when the other was slapped , I don't see you, Debmey or T8 turning the other cheek.

   Are you slapping us in the cheek? What i know is it is we that are "slapping" your face with the fact muhammad have sexual desire for a 6 year old.

Like I said, and let me repeat here again, I ask you, if Mohammad was living in this century, Do you honestly think that he would've married a 9 years old.  Would he had still use camel as his transport?  Answer these, then we'll know if you are using your brain or your heart.

Would you give yourself, your daughter at the age of 6 to an old man to marry in our current times? I guess not, muhammad will instanly be sent to jail. But he did marry aisha during His time, voiding his title as a perfect example of man for all time.

Are you slapping us in the cheek? What i know is it is we that are "slapping" your face with the fact muhammad have sexual desire for a 6 year old.

No you aint slapping us with anything, we're, well at least my part, entertaining your ignorance of ancient culture and tradition.  That's why I said previously, why don't you go find a historian or scholars and ask them if this was considered paedophilism.   I gurantee after 50 times explaining to you that it is not, they will surely give you a slap.

Would you give yourself, your daughter at the age of 6 to an old man to marry in our current times? I guess not, muhammad will instanly be sent to jail. But he did marry aisha during His time, voiding his title as a perfect example of man for all time.

Because IN HIS TIME which was the 7TH CENTURY, it was acceptable, it was a tradition, a culture, it was THE norm, not only in Saudi, but in other countries like China, India Africa, Rome, Israel, England, France, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia whatever name they were called then.

Go see a scholar, the nearest would be Dato' Prof. Khoo Kay Kim at University Malaya and he will tell you what you "don't want to hear".