Top Ten Tanks

Nakabu

Read somewhere that Abraams and Leopard were initially the same tank. US and West Germany combine effort to develop the ultimate tank to counter Soviet's threat. However, later in the project, both nations decided to go separate ways and develop tanks based on their own requirements and suit their own needs.

Even now you can see that most of the time, the Abraams are used in the desert and the Leopard pictured in the wet and cold jungle area.

Laxamana.

Leopard 2 really is the best... so versatile in movement unlike any other tanks.

Laxamana.

Leopard 2 really is the best... so versatile in movement unlike any other tanks.

reinloch

What is important is not the machine but the doctrine. It needs to be understood how Soviet tanks will fight in the battlefield they were designed for, and why their perceived shortcomings are actually not critical under those circumstances. These tanks have no place in the limited battlefields today though.

alphawolf

Originally posted by Nakabu at 11-7-2006 18:27
Read somewhere that Abraams and Leopard were initially the same tank. US and West Germany combine effort to develop the ultimate tank to counter Soviet's threat. However, later in the project, both ...

Indeed...the Germans and Americans originally developed a common tank designated MBT-70.

I still vote for the leapord 2... It's way cooler than the Abrams... and just becoz it ain't been used in combat don't mean it can't put the hurtin on the enemy as well as the Abrams...

taiaha

Resurrecting this thread 'cos i think my thread on ERA is loong gone hehe:

Loo at this unique Iraqi add on armour: http://tanxheaven.com/t55enigma/t55enigmapic.htm

alphawolf

Originally posted by taiaha at 30-8-2006 14:47
Resurrecting this thread 'cos i think my thread on ERA is loong gone hehe:

Loo at this unique Iraqi add on armour: http://tanxheaven.com/t55enigma/t55enigmapic.htm

http://data.primeportal.net ...

Ah yes..the T-55 enigma, a relatively cheap solution to improve protection...use cement blocks!

taiaha

Is it just cement blocks or is there something else added? Rubber?

alphawolf

Originally posted by taiaha at 30-8-2006 15:09
Is it just cement blocks or is there something else added? Rubber?

I think it's just concrete-filled steel boxes.

taiaha

Originally posted by alphawolf at 30-8-2006 03:38 PM


I think it's just concrete-filled steel boxes.

Hehe, probly effective against RPG7s but nothing else!

How effective do you think in the modern land war for an upgraded T-55 (or similar) tanks?  I heard that China has more than 5000 T-55(and family), upgraded or not.  Would it be useful if the hull is maintained, but with upgraded gun, fcs, armour, or even power pack?  Lets hear from the experts.

alphawolf

Whose that with the 'Bra armor'?


p.s. kepada yang tak tahu..bra armor ialah armor tambahan yang dipasang pada T-55AM dan T-72B...hehehe

ef/x

Originally posted by taiaha at 30-8-2006 03:41 PM


Hehe, probly effective against RPG7s but nothing else!

Not RPG-7V......

taiaha

Originally posted by jebat987 at 30-8-2006 05:09 PM
How effective do you think in the modern land war for an upgraded T-55 (or similar) tanks?  I heard that China has more than 5000 T-55(and family), upgraded or not.  Would it be useful if the hull  ...

Upgrading MBTs is a cost effective way for some countries. Armada International did a three part series on upgraded MBTs a while back if my memory serves me right.

taiaha

Originally posted by alphawolf at 30-8-2006 05:10 PM


Whose that with the 'Bra armor'?


p.s. kepada yang tak tahu..bra armor ialah armor tambahan yang dipasa ...

Hehe Giselle windecher bro, she's got a Myspace Acct...

taiaha

I'll share this with u guys, was thinking of writing something on this a while back:
The Ch'onma-ho main battle tank: a look at the present and future of North Korea's "Flying Horse"
Armor,  Sept-Oct, 2005  by James M. Warford
"Seeing tankmen overcome in a moment difficult conditions, such as mountains and valleys, marshes and rivers, and charge toward 'enemy 'positions, he noted with great satisfaction, that all tankmen have deep hatred for the enemy and a high spirit of devotion to the country and people, and are fully prepared in military technique to cope with modern warfare, each being a match for a hundred foes." (1)

On 25 April 1992, a large parade was held in Pyongyang, North Korea, to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the North Korean People's Army. While many known and some unknown new weapons systems participated in the parade, perhaps the most interesting was the extensively modified North Korean T-62A main battle tank (MBT), known as the Ch'onma-ho, which translates to "Flying Horse" or "Pegasus." This tank, based on the Russian T-62A, not only represents an important example of North Korea's efforts toward modernization and self-reliance, it also provides a very rare glimpse at the status of North Korean tank development.

While an old design by today's standards, the upgraded Russian T-62A tank incorporates some significant improvements over the original T-62. Beginning in 1983, the Soviets started to significantly upgrade the capabilities of their T-62s (now known as the T-62M) to include an improved fire control system, an externally-mounted laser rangefinder mounted above the tank's 115mm smoothbore main gun, a more powerful 620-horsepower engine (up from 580), improved suspension components, and the addition of BDD (Brow) add-on armor to the turret front and hull glacis. Adding BDD armor is particularly significant because it is credited with adding 120mm of protection against armor-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) ammunition and 200 to 250mm of protection against high-explosive antitank (HEAT) ammunition. Fitted with BDD armor, the 60-degree frontal arc of the T-62M is immune to U.S. and NATO 105mmAPDS and HEAT ammunition

taiaha

In most cases, the T-62M upgrade also included the 9K116-1 main gun launched antitank guided missile (ATGM) system. Russian T-62s not equipped with this system were designated as the T-62M1. The 9M117 Sheksna missile fired by the T-62M and designated as the AT-12 by NATO has a maximum effective range of 4,000 meters. According to the Russians, the latest version of this missile, known as the 9M117M, is fitted with a new tandem HEAT warhead. This new missile reportedly penetrates 550mm of conventional armor protected by an external layer of explosive reactive armor (ERA).

In 2003, the Russians announced an even more extensive upgrade package for the T-62, simply referred to as the "modernized T-62." This package includes replacing the original 115mm main gun with a new 120mm main gun, adding a new fire control system that incorporates a thermal night sight and built-in laser rangefinder, and upgrading the engine with a new 690-horsepower engine. Additionally, this upgrade package includes the advanced built-in ERA that looks similar to the Kontakt-5 reactive armor, which is used to protect the more advanced T-80U MBT.

While these modifications incorporated into the T-62M are fairly well known, there are other variants of the T-62M and T-62M1 that complicate the identification of each variant. These other modifications include using different engines, not fitting the complete BDD armor arrays, and the application of the initial version of Kontakt ERA. These T-62M variants, fitted with Kontakt ERA, are designated as the T-62MV. Over the years, the T-62M has proven to be a successful and widely deployed battlefield workhorse, and has seen combat in various locations globally, to include Chechnya, and more recently, Afghanistan.

Like the Russians, the Ukrainians realized that to maintain their position as a viable force in the international military export market, they needed to develop an upgrade package for the T-62 as well. Also designated as the T-62M, the recently announced Ukrainian upgrade program includes the use of a new fire control system, incorporating a combined day-night sight, an externally-mounted laser rangefinder, two-axis gun stabilization, and a digital computer. The Ukrainian T-62M is also capable of mounting either the KBM2 120mm or the KBA3 125mm main guns (both of which can fire Ukrainian-designed ATGMs). The tank is powered by the 5TDF 700 horsepower engine and is also fitted with new Ukrainian modular reactive armor. While both the Russian and Ukrainian T-62M upgrade packages successfully breathed new life into the old T-62 design and provided the capabilities for the tank to remain a threat on today's battlefields, they also provide a glimpse of what can be expected from the North Korean Ch'onma-ho.

The North Korean Ch'onma-ho MBT remains one of the most mysterious tanks currently in use around the world. While very little detailed information is known about this tank, there is enough available information to provide a general description and overview. To date, the only available photographs of the Ch'onma-ho are a few poor-quality images that were taken during the massive military parades held in Pyongyang. The secrecy surrounding the Ch'onma-ho could be an example of the North Koreans copying the old Soviet behavior of keeping selected high-priority weapons systems hidden from prying eyes.

taiaha

While most published sources report that North Koreans acquired Russian T-62 tanks in the 1980s, some sources claim that these tanks were actually acquired much earlier. According to a former North Korean army colonel who defected to South Korea in 1999, North Korean "agents" stole the blueprints of the T-62 from Syria in the late 1970s. These blueprints were reportedly used to develop the North Korean version of the T-62. While it is not known exactly when or how the "new" T-62 was acquired, the Ch'onma-ho has since become a serious concern to the South Korean military.

According to the available information, the name "Ch'onma-ho" actually refers to a series of North Korean tanks that relate to upgraded versions of the original Russian T-62A. According to the published 1998 and 1999 South Korean Defense White Papers, the South Korean military has apparently identified at least two different modified T-62 variants. The white papers explain that the North Koreans have put larger guns on their "T-62 tanks," in addition to producing "new Ch'onmaho tanks." However, the 2000 South Korean Defense White Paper describes the new tanks as "domestically produced T-62 Ch'onma-ho tanks that feature larger caliber munitions." Additionally, in 2001, U.S. military officials reported that the North Korean version of the T-62 is being armed with a larger gun and that this variant of the tank is known as the Ch'onma-ho. This information would seem to confirm that there are at least three variants in the Ch'onma-ho series. Interestingly enough, the same U.S. military officials confirmed that the North Koreans resumed tank production after a ten-year shutdown.

It now appears that the Ch'onma-ho MBT series includes as few as three and perhaps as many as seven different variants. The tanks that were paraded in Pyongyang in April 1992 are certainly the most advanced variant seen to date and confirm the development of a North Korean tank with the capabilities of the Russian and Ukrainian T-62M MBTs. It is likely that the North Koreans felt a significant upgrade of earlier Ch'onma-ho variants was necessary to remain competitive with the "new" South Korean 105mm-armed K1 MBT, which has been in service with South Korea's army since 1986.Most likely, the 1992 variant of the Ch'onma-ho is actually the Ch'onma-ho III. Additionally, unconfirmed reports of a command variant and armored recovery vehicle (ARV) variant of the Ch'onmaho series continue to make tracking these tanks a challenge. Based on the available information, the different variants of the Ch'onma-ho series are likely identified as follows:

* Ch'onma-ho I--slightly modified copy of the Russian T-62A with 115mm main gun and 14.5mm anti-aircraft machine gun.

* Ch'onma-ho II--upgraded Ch'onma-ho I, incorporating an externally mounted laser rangefinder above the main gun.

* Ch'onma-ho III--first seen during the parade in 1992, incorporating a laser rangefinder above the 115mm main gun, a thermal shroud on the main gun, full-hull skirting, turret smoke grenade launchers (two sets on each side of the turret), add-on armor to the turret front and possibly the glacis, what appears to be ERA "bricks" on the turret sides (from the turret midpoint back to the turret rear), and an improved fire control system.

taiaha

* Ch'onma-ho IV/V--upgraded variant fitted with the "larger gun" (reliable reports say that this larger gun is in fact the 125mm main gun--with autoloader--from the Russian T-72 MBT).

While reports concerning the "larger gun" variant of the Ch'onma-ho confirm that this variant exists and is fitted with the 125mm main gun, they are not the only tanks in the North Korean army that have this level of firepower. According to unconfirmed reports, North Korea received a small number of Russian T-72s for evaluation, testing, and to support the potential establishment of an internal T-72 production capability. It has also been reported that North Korea acquired a single T-90S MBT from Russia in August 2001 for testing and evaluation. The future of the Ch'onma-ho series of tanks is clearly based on the financial capabilities of North Korea's economy. The production and continuing deployment of these upgraded MBTs will, for the foreseeable future, be tied to the performance of North Korea as a whole.

In spite of the status of North Korea's economy, reports concerning an even newer tank developed by North Korea began to appear in the defense-related press during July 2002. Reportedly, this new tank was developed by the Ryu Kyong-su tank plant in Shinhung and completed performance trials on 16 February 2002. These reports followed a well-publicized trip to Russia by North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in August 2001. The focus of this trip may have been on shopping since, after traveling to Russia in his 21-car armored train, Kim visited the Omsk TransMash tank plant, the makers of the Russian T-80U tank series. According to published reports, this new North Korean tank has capabilities that "are nearly identical to those of the T-90 tank Russia developed in the early 1990s." It was also reported during Kim's trip to Russia that North Korea wanted to buy an "upgraded" T-90 recently developed by the Russians. While the North Koreans had apparently been attempting to get additional help from Russia to develop their tanks for some time, Russian sources report these new 125mm-armed MBTs were developed by the North Koreans with help from Iran. In spite of these reports, the relationship between Russia and North Korea remains strong; as seen by the participation of a senior North Korean military officer during Russian celebrations in May 2005, marking the anniversary of the victory in World War II. Perhaps the highlight of these celebrations was the traditional military parade in Red Square, which included, for the first time, Russian T-80BV MBTs. Exactly why that particular Cold War-era tank was paraded during that particular parade remains a mystery.Certainly, the development and production of the Ch'onma-ho series of MBTs represents an impressive achievement for North Korea. This is especially true with the 125mm-armed variant since it has the firepower necessary to be a threat on future Korean battlefields. While the small number of T-72s and the single reported T-90S are too few to pose a real threat, they have paved the way for the reported development of a new North Korean T-90-equivalent MBT. This latest tank development may not only be a crowning achievement of the North Korean military's efforts toward self-reliance, it may also be driving the continuing development of new tanks in South Korea. In addition to the production and deployment of their own 120mm-armed K1A1 MBT, the South Korean military has confirmed that a new sophisticated tank, known as the Korean Future Main Battle Tank (KFMBT), is being developed in South Korea. Apparently, the threat posed by the North Korean Ch'onma-ho tank series (the most recent 125mm-armed tanks in particular), along with the new North Korean T-90 equivalent tank, is significant enough to drive the continuing development of a new tank for South Korea's army.