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Author: fadhli_2

Peluang pelaburan di Public Mutual

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Post time 17-12-2007 11:26 AM | Show all posts

Reply #219 blastoff's post

mmg tak betul pun apa yg ko kata tuh. sbb jadik UTC bukan utk suka2 goyang kaki seperti yg ko fhm.

ko jeles ekkk....komisen we all jek ribu2 lemon gituk

jgn dengki dgn rezeki org lain.....org lain bekerja keras, so leh la hidup senang lenang.
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Post time 17-12-2007 11:37 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 11:22 AM
masih tak fhm lagik ker......pelaburan dana hanya di uruskan oleh PUBLIC MUTUAL as a company, setiap dana plak ada fund managers yang  akan manage profile dana mengikut category masing2.

contoh nya:

PIEF (Public Islamic Equity Fund) - profile equity. sekurang2 nya pegangan dalam equity more than 80%.
dana ini adalah islamic....segala wang yg berada dalam dana ini di laburkan ke atas shares/companies ber asaskan islam....seperti TENAGA, TM, IOI Properties etc.

PEF (Public Equity Fund) - non islamic equity. wang di dalam dana ini di laburkan dlm shares/companies seperti Public Bank, Genting etc.

PNB hanya company.....mereka juga mempunyai dana2 mereka tersendiri yg di manage oleh fund managers. ASB, ASN, Wawasan etc tuh sume dana amanah di mana wang dari dana2 tersebut di laburkan ke atas shares/perniagaan yg tertentu.


semua company pun mesti akan lantik manager memasing , tak kiralah company ape sekalipun dan itu lumrah bercompany , itu hanya permasaalahan management company tu aje . Tapi yang pentingnya yang perlu ditekankan di sini adalah company yang sama tu lah juga yang uruskan mende yang majoritinya haram dalam masa yang sama company tu jugalah yang uruskan mende seconet yang halalnya tu , tak kiralah sape managernya yang dilantik oleh company tu untuk uruskan yang haram atau yang halal sebab manager tu cuma kakitangan company tu aje . Kalau company tu majoriti pelaburannya dah tak betul dan songsang maka haram laa melabur dalam company yang macam tu . Kita memperkatakan tentang hukum dan fatwa di sini .

PNB pula mana ada major invesment dealings dia berdasarkan yang haram tak kisah lah under nama wawasan ke ASB ke ASN ke ? Yang pentingnya perlu dilihat pada majoriti KESELURUHAN urusniaga dan pelaburan sesuatu company tu untuk mengetahui samada haram atau halal syer-syer yang di tawarkannya.

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 11:39 AM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 11:37 AM | Show all posts
lagik satu aku nak tmbah.....bila aku kata ada lbh 40 dana amanah under public mutaul..tak bermaksud wang bg setiap dana di cmapur aduk kan.

setiap dana mempunyai akaun dan portfolio masing2.

contoh:

PIEF

NAV - RM571.22 M
UNITS - 1,472.73 M

asset allocation:
93.39% in shariah-compliant equities & islamic derivatives
6.61% in islamic money market instruments and others.

top 5 holdings:
1) TEnaga - 5.82% of NAV
2) IOI Corp - 4.57% of NAV
3) Asiatic Dev. - 3.86% of NAV
4) MISC Berhad - 3.85% of NAV
5) MMC Corp - 3.61% of NAV

source: QFR 2, 2007

sekian
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Post time 17-12-2007 11:41 AM | Show all posts

Reply #222 blastoff's post

bila ckp psl investment in UT...org bkn labur or beli PUBLIC MUTUAL. tp beli dana amanah....BELI LAH YG ISLAMIC FUNDS...takyah la beli conventional funds. ada byk islamic....PIEF, PCIF, ITTIKAL, PIBF, PIDF, PIOF, PIADF, PISSF, PIMMF, PI BOND, PI ENHANCED BOND. ETC.
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Post time 17-12-2007 11:45 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 11:26 AM
mmg tak betul pun apa yg ko kata tuh. sbb jadik UTC bukan utk suka2 goyang kaki seperti yg ko fhm.

ko jeles ekkk....komisen we all jek ribu2 lemon gituk

jgn dengki dgn rezeki ...


aku banyak dengar consultant UT yang buat tak peduli aje kat client nya (tak semua laa ye) , haram tak pernah telefon pun untuk apa-apa info , bila di tanya , ini maklum balas yang di terima , client banyak sangat sampai beratus orang lalu client yang invesment belatus libu aje yang akan diberi keutamaan , yang invest cuma selibu dua tu di biarkan termangu-mangulah pulak   .... itulah padahnya kalau duit gaji demand awal-awal lagi , kerja tak laksanakan tapi dah nak untung instantly ..... betul apa, bila client laburkan automatically di deduct service charge tuh company tuh untung serta merta woooo skim cepat kaya bagi company tu laa sebenarnya... dalam dunia ni mana ada skim untung serta merta bagi sesuatu company melainkan dana mutual fund ni lah yee ? Cerdik , cerdik , company yang uruskan UT nih cerdik benor yee

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 11:50 AM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 11:47 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by blastoff at 17-12-2007 11:16 AM
kalau kau perjelaskan lagi bagus dari dok tergelak saja , kat mana yang tak betulnya apa yang aku sebut tu ?   Sebab betul kot ye yang menyebabkan kau tak boleh nak kelentong dah so kau mampu gelak aje laa ye bagi menutup malu kau tu


malas aku nk layan org berfikiran sempit mcm ko ni..
lgpn, benda ni dah bincang byk kali...selak je la thread2 lame tuh..

[ Last edited by  leukoplast at 17-12-2007 11:52 AM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:02 PM | Show all posts

Reply #225 blastoff's post

wakakakkaka

client kena charge.....6.5%...next year lak 5.45% n 3%....tp leh dpt return more than 15% net a year....agak2 client bother tak psl initial fee tuh.

charges tuh sekali jek..mula2....lps tuh segala keje monitoring/managing/switching/redeem selepas itu tidak langsung kena caj apa2.

tak call/tak contact tak bermakna portfolio each client di abaikan.
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:03 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 11:41 AM
bila ckp psl investment in UT...org bkn labur or beli PUBLIC MUTUAL. tp beli dana amanah....BELI LAH YG ISLAMIC FUNDS...takyah la beli conventional funds. ada byk islamic....PIEF, PCIF, ITTIKAL,  ...


alaa , dana amanah tu macam syer laa , cuma bezanya syer kebiasaan ni di laburkan dalam satu -satu company aje dan company tu pulak laburkan duit tu dalam certain spesific area aje , tapi UT ni di laburkan oleh satu company dalam banyak-banyak area . Islamic funds ke atau conventional funds ke semua tu di urus oleh satu company kan yang di panggil PUBLIC MUTUAL , habis tu kalau kita nak faham dari segi halal dan haramnya melabur di company yang cenggitu maka kita kena tengok KESELURUHAN pelaburan company tu sebenarnya , bukannya tengok satu area aje dari berbagai area investments company tu . Semua company pelaburan dalam dunia ni pun akan mempelbagaikan area pelaburan mereka , akan ada duit pelaburan tu di labur ke perkara yang halal dan akan ada yang jelas haram ,  jadi kalau kita focus pada certain specific area aje maka semua company pelaburan dalam dunia ni jawapnya halal leee . Tak boleh lah cenggitu kalau nak nilai dari segi hukum , kalau keseluruhan invesments company tu banyak yang haram dan cuma sket aje yang halal , maka haram laa untuk invest dalam company cenggitu , mana boleh asing-asing plak !

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 12:15 PM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:10 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by leukoplast at 17-12-2007 11:47 AM


malas aku nk layan org berfikiran sempit mcm ko ni..
lgpn, benda ni dah bincang byk kali...selak je la thread2 lame tuh..


Kalau berkaitan dengan hukum , yang haram tetap haram , dah jelas PUBLIC MUTUAL ni dana dia majoritinya terang-terang haram dan tak ikut syariah pun , sama aje dengan bank conventional yang majoriti dealings mereka haram . Aku tak kisah di gelar berfikiran sempit asalkan aku tak bergelumang dengan mende haram kasi makan famili aku ..... dunia ni sementara aje , bukan boleh bawak masuk kubur duit bebanyak , duit sumber yang haram lagi laa bawak bencana aje di akhirat kelak  

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 12:11 PM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:12 PM | Show all posts
aduh...
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:14 PM | Show all posts

Reply #225 blastoff's post

hello banggg..standard la tu buat keje ada upah, UT ejen mana ada makan gaji..mana ada org kasi servis percuma..parkin' pun skrang pakai kupon
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:19 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by mrbelalang at 17-12-2007 12:14 PM
hello banggg..standard la tu buat keje ada upah, UT ejen mana ada makan gaji..mana ada org kasi servis percuma..parkin' pun skrang pakai kupon


Servis charge tak ape , cuma biarlaa lepas kerja di laksanakan barulaa betul , ini immediately nak charge servis tinggi-tinggi , tak logik laa , PNB pun kenakan servis charge juga tapi setelah dapat untung ,setelah kerja dilaksanakan ,setelah pelaburan di jalankan,  itu baru betul

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 12:20 PM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:23 PM | Show all posts

Reply #229 blastoff's post

public mutual haram??

what about mutual companies yg lain......contoh seperti CIMB WA, CIMB PRINCIPAl, MAA MUTUAL, AM MUTUAL etc.

jgn pepandai letak hukum...kalau sendiri pun tak fhm apa itu UT...kemana duit2 UT nih di laburkan.

1st UT company in Malaysia is KL Mutual (sekarang PMUTUAL)....tahun 80an then baru di tubuhkan PNB (mutual company gak nih).....PNB pun part iof UT industries.

harap maklum.
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:26 PM | Show all posts
Tabung Haji dan byk lagi corporate bodies pun melabur dlm dana amanah under PUBLIC MUTUAL. agak2 nya kan.....fikir2 la sendiri.

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Post time 17-12-2007 12:42 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 12:23 PM
public mutual haram??

what about mutual companies yg lain......contoh seperti CIMB WA, CIMB PRINCIPAl, MAA MUTUAL, AM MUTUAL etc.

jgn pepandai letak hukum...kalau sendiri pun tak fhm apa itu UT...kemana duit2 UT nih di laburkan.

1st UT company in Malaysia is KL Mutual (sekarang PMUTUAL)....tahun 80an then baru di tubuhkan PNB (mutual company gak nih).....PNB pun part iof UT industries.

harap maklum.


Itulaa , baca lah fatwa yang di keluarkan oleh majlis fatwa kat M'sia dan ni haa website di link ni adalah fatwa yang dipersetujui oleh ulamak seluruh dunia  http://monzer.kahf.com/fatawa/FATAWA%20SHARES,%20OPTIONS,%20FUTURES,%20CURRENCIES%20AND%20INVESTMENT.pdf

Bukan aku suka-suka keluarkan fatwa , dah jelas fatwa yang di keluarkan yang menyatakan kalau majoriti dealings sesuatu company tu berurusniaga secara haram maka haram laa menyertai apa-apa syer yang di tawarkan oleh company tu . Kita memperkatakan di thread ni mengenai PUBLIC MUTUAL punya fund kan    , kalau fund atau syer company lain pun sama laa juga kena tengok majoriti dealings dan invesments company dia orang tu laa pulak , kalau haram maka haram laa . Kau heret mai sini fund dan syer dari seluruh duniai pun konsep nak faham halal atau haramnya sama aje still kena tengok keseluruhan company tu punya urusniaga baru boleh determine haram atau halalnya untuk invest .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 12:51 PM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:50 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 12:26 PM
Tabung Haji dan byk lagi corporate bodies pun melabur dlm dana amanah under PUBLIC MUTUAL. agak2 nya kan.....fikir2 la sendiri.



kau main agak-agak aje tak aci laa , fund-fund PUBLIC MUTUAL dah diperakuikan bahwa banyak yang tak ikut syariah maknanya banyak yang haram cuma 10 aje dananya yang halal ,kau sendiri yang kata gitu dan sape-sape pun boleh tahu dengan melihat senarai dana-dananya, yang mana terang-terang dinyatakan mana yang ikut syariah dan mana yang tak , so dah jelas majoriti dealings haram pun . Kalau tabung haji mana ada senarai cenggitu , main teka-teka aje tak boleh laa , tak adil laa . Sebab tu ulamak bercanggah pendapat mengenai company yang dealings mereka majoriti halal tapi sedikit aje dari urusniaga mereka yang haram . Ada ulamak kata boleh beli syer dan ada ulamak kata tak boleh .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 12:52 PM ]
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:52 PM | Show all posts

Reply #235 blastoff's post

fatwa tuh mmg betul......tp cara ko fhm apa itu PUBLIC MUTUAL salah. sbb PUBLIC MUTUAL ADALAH COMPANY PENGURUSAN DANA AMANAH...DI MANA DANA2 AMANAH YG DI URUSKAN ADA CONVENTIONAL..ADA ISLAMIC.

SO KALAU KO INVEST DLM DANA CONVENTIONAL..MMG LA HUKUM NYA HARAM

TP KALAU KO INVEST DALAM DANA ISLAMIC YG DI IKTIRAF, DI REVIEW DAN D MONITOR OLEH SHARIAH COMPLIANT.....HUKUM NYA HALAL.

sekian
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:56 PM | Show all posts

Reply #236 blastoff's post

mana aku ada main agak2......itu real case.

"agak2 nya kan??" tuh aku suh ko pikir.
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Post time 17-12-2007 12:59 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 12:56 PM
mana aku ada main agak2......itu real case.

"agak2 nya kan??" tuh aku suh ko pikir.


Sila bukti kan , kita nak tahu juga , mana kau memperolehi info ni , dan adakah info ni reliable ke tak , so sila bawa buktinya .
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Post time 17-12-2007 01:05 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Jelita at 17-12-2007 12:52 PM
fatwa tuh mmg betul......tp cara ko fhm apa itu PUBLIC MUTUAL salah. sbb PUBLIC MUTUAL ADALAH COMPANY PENGURUSAN DANA AMANAH...DI MANA DANA2 AMANAH YG DI URUSKAN ADA CONVENTIONAL..ADA ISLAMIC.

...


Kau baca balik info yang aku paste kan kat bawah tu , itu adalah fatwa diperakui oleh ulamak dari seluruh dunia , bukan dilihat pada syer atau dana kalau nak tahu haram atau halal untuk invest , tapi dilihat pada keseluruhan urusniaga company yang offer syer atau dana tu . Kalau company CARLSBERG nak wujudkan dana pun lalu melabelkan dananya tu islamik segala , tak halal juga yang oi , sebab untuk menentukan hukum bukan dilihat pada syer atau dana ,tapi kena tengok pada COMPANY tu punya KESELURUHAN urusniaga laa , aku dah ulang mende ni berkali-kali dah tapi kau payah bebenor nak faham ye
____________________________________________

Sila check muka surat 14 di website di bawah ni mengenai haramnya membeli apa jenis stock atau mutual fund yang di tawarkan oleh bank konventional  :
http://monzer.kahf.com/fatawa/FATAWA%20SHARES,%20OPTIONS,%20FUTURES,%20CURRENCIES%20AND%20INVESTMENT.pdf


A - Buying stocks makes you a partner/owner in the company and in Shari'ah it is
forbidden for a Muslim to make decisions that involve Haram transactions, even if these
transactions are done, on his behalf, by his partners. This is the reason for the OIC Fiqh
Academy resolution that: In principle, it is forbidden to buy, own and sell stocks of
companies that do sometimes forbidden transactions although their main line of business
may be within permissible limits.
The exception a handful of Ulama took is essentially based of removing a substantial
Haraj (inconvenience) in relation to those Muslims, like you who deal in stocks and have
not much of other expertise to use their savings.
You see that we can sort stocks into three categories: 1) permissible, the example of
which is stocks of Islamic banks; 2) forbidden; where the main line of business is Haram,
such as conventional banks and alcohol, tobacco, and Pig producers and distributors; and
3) the majority of companies, where the main line of business is permissible, but the
management undertakes some transactions that are forbidden, such as Riba-based
contracts, sale of certain goods before they take possession of them, make parties for
guests and employees with alcohol and cigarettes offered, etc.
Those Ulama who attempt to remove the inconvenience came up with a few criteria to
test the permissibility. These criteria are:
1- Main line of business must be permissible;
2- Percentage of dependence of loans (leverage) must be not high, and they considered
one-third to be a limit for what is high (we have several use of the one-third in Fiqh as a
criteria of what is high: Last Will, Gharar, Jahalah, etc.) Leverage is measured as
percentage of loans to total assets;
3- Indulging in prohibited transaction must not be high. as an example they take Riba and
assumed that a company that has too much cash in banks and too much receivables to
mean that it has too many Riba-based use of their assets, considering one half is a limit
here, that is one half of their assets is a limit for total of cash and receivables;
4- Income from prohibited transactions, such as Riba, must be low, no more that 5% to
10%.
5- The main line of business must not be in an Area that is harmful to the Muslim
Ummah, such as American military industry that usually cooperate with Israel and other
aggressors against Muslims.
6- Once these criteria are applied, you still need to calculate, or at least make an educated
estimation of, the proportion of Haram in the income you get from a stock (this covers
both dividends and capital gain) and exclude that proportion from your own wealth or
property by giving it to charity or similar disbursements for the general welfare of the
Ummah, you may not use this part of income to make up a loss you otherwise incur or to
pay taxes the law requires you to pay, etc.
'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, has a relevant statement: He who does not know
the Fiqh needed to play in our market must stay away from it. My dear Brother you need
to either acquire the technical know-how to apply these points or to hire someone to do it
for you or quit that market.
B - You cannot use an income you know it is Haram for you to compensate a loss of any
asset of yours, stocks or otherwise, because that Haram income is not yours. I belong to
whoever paid it to you and if you do not know the payer, or it is in contradiction with
rational behavior to return it to the payer (as is the case here because the payer is a Riba
player) , You have to exclude it from your own property by giving it to charity. Yes, you
still have to give that amount away.


[ Last edited by  blastoff at 17-12-2007 01:09 PM ]
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