1 + 1 + 1 =1 OR 1 x 1 x 1 =1

Oreng

First, christians could not hold that 1+1+1=1. Logically, 1+1+1=3. So, suddenly they have to look for alternate answer. Yeah ! they find it : 1x1x1=1. But, do they understand what 1x1x1 means ?

1x1x1 is using multiplication. A multiplication is just a substitute for addition. For example, 1+1+1 is written as 1x3.

When we multiply a number with another number, we actually recognising that the number and the other number is separate being. 1x2 means we have 2 separate being. 1x3 means we have 3 separate beings.

But, when we multiply a number with the same number, we actually recognising that there is only one number, no other number except itself. So, 1x1x1 etc (no matter how many times) means no other number except itself. That is why the result is still 1.

But, the issue is our understanding about whether a something is separate being or the same being.

We logically recognise that something is separate from the other because it has its own shape, its own border, its own map, its own territory. A coconut tree is considered separate from a banana tree because its has its own shape, border, map territory and other features. If someone say a coconut tree is the same as banana tree, we can simply say that person is illogical or insane.

Now, jesus has separate shape, border, map and features from god. Thus, logically, jesus is separate from god. So, we cannot apply multiplication here. We must apply addition instead. Instead of 1x1=1 we must say 1+1=2.

Finally, christian cannot hold on to 1+1+1=1 and they also cannot hold on 1x1x1=1 to depict their concept of god.

SHALOM !

TO Oreng :

B4 i go futher with the 1x1x1 = 1 God , i would like to give comment on the coconut tree and banana tree issue .

A coconut tree is considered separate from a banana tree because its has its own shape, border, map territory and other features. If someone say a coconut tree is the same as banana tree, we can simply say that person is illogical or insane.

Well , i agree  100% with u ! Sure, banana tree and coconut tree are two diff trees. you can ask that to a 3 yo kid , and they will give the same answer ! . But the problem here is , coconut tree is COCONUT TREE , banana tree is BANANA TREE - they are not the same tree ( or they are not the same NATURE - Nature of coconut is different of NAture of tree - just like what us aid - shape , border , map etc ) .

But what if .... what if .. we take a look example on the COCONUT TREE ONLY , since we are talking about ONE nature here . Let s imagine there s only one coconut tree in ur "dusun" . This year , the tree is 5 m tall . Next year , it is 6 m tall , and then two years later , it is 7m tall. How many trees do we have in the dusun ? 1 or 3 ? Go and pick and answer ?
If we time the same tree for each year for the last tree years - dont we get the same tree ?

It applies the same with a chair . The original color is white , then we painted it black , then again, we painted it red. Now it is a red chair . SO how many chairs do we have ? 1 or 3 ?

So my point here is , the NATURE that speaks for the 1x1x1 = 3 . The tree , although change in height , still  is the same tree . because it is its nature so . likewise the chair.

So back to trinity rship in accordance to that 1x1x1 =1. It has the same basic idea , the NATURE of GOD. They are ONE .They are not 3 divine natures , but they are one NATURE although they are of three different persons, but they share that one nature . That s why , in the end , they are still considered as ONE GOD , rather than 3 gods .

Father ( God Nature ) x Jesus ( God Nature ) x Holy Spirit (God Nature )= GOD (God Nature)

So you are actually multiplying the same NATURE  three times and get the Same NATURE in the end (although these three persons are distinct from one another ) .

NOTE : It is the nature that makes GOD a GOD , it s not the physical being (yes , The father is different person , Jesus is different person and HS is different person ) that makes someone GOD , but it is that NATURE . and these three persons share one nature . That s the whole idea of the rship , and in this matter , the equation.


-ARCHANGEL -

Typos -

So my point here is , the NATURE that speaks for the 1x1x1 = 3 . The tree

supposed to be 1x1x1=1

Oreng

Originally posted by Archangel at 2005-5-12 03:05 PM:
It is the nature that makes GOD a GOD , it s not the physical being (yes , The father is different person , Jesus is different person and HS is different person ) that makes someone GOD , but it is that NATURE . and these three persons share one nature .

So you are segregating god into his physical and his nature. It is like saying a stone physically is a stone but it's nature is not stone (may be a cabbage) ? How come the same thing has its nature separate from its physical ? It think you are out of your mind.

greekgod

Originally posted by Archangel at 12-5-2005 09:05 AM:
SHALOM !

TO Oreng :

B4 i go futher with the 1x1x1 = 1 God , i would like to give comment on the coconut tree and banana tree issue .



Well , i agree  100% with u ! Sure, banana tree a ...

Multiplication, according to mathematical laws, are used to describe things that same (but exists, according to accordance) or exist separately. It is vital for physics, because multiplication helps to combine different dimensions (weight, time etc).

But, it happened to be different with addition, whereelse, it is used to combine things with same units. U cant combine things with different units.

For example,

x + x = 2x   --- eq 1
x * x = x^2  --- eq 2

all the same,

x + y = y + x  --- eq 3
x * y = xy   --- eq 4

see, from the 3rd equation, one can see that different variable cannot be added together, while the case can be easily changed using the multiplication.

What about vector, let us see... In easy word, vector describes the unit/units.

For example

time (s)
length (m)

s + m = m + s  --- eq 5
s * m = ms  --- eq 6

If god can be describes with different "meta" or variables, therefore

God the father, God the son and Holy Ghost must agree with having "vector", and in accordance to mathematical equations (number 2 and 6), it must be multiplied together.

God the father (god) * God the son (god) * Holy Ghost (God) = God^3

Whereelse, one can realise the cubic variables, which is mentioning 3 physically (or imaginary) that must exist separately in order to fulfil the equations.

The same things cannot be said or multiplied to any other number unless there is a copy of it.

For example,

Archangel cannot be multiplied to another Archangel, and return the same Archangel^3, unless there is a copy of Archangel that exist the same to the original Archangel.

In this case, god (father, son, HG) must have the same equality to share the same "vector". If it is not, then, one have to agree,

GodF * GodS * GodHG = F.S.HG.God = (F*S*HG)God

See, three vectors, and conclusion here is:

Trinity is telling about 3 different gods!

Remember, one thing cannot be multiplied to how many you want, unless you have that many to be multiplied!

If you have one god, how come you can claim that god can be times to god, since if there is one copy, you cant mention about another copy that doesnt exist!@

Oreng

phew !. What is taught in christians universities around the world surely inconsistent with what christians try to apply here regarding the concept of addition and multiplication.

Terlebih Kuah

Originally posted by Archangel at 2005-5-12 03:09 PM:
Typos -
supposed to be 1x1x1=1

1x1x1=1
Father X Holy Gost x Jesus = 1 God

Jesus died for entire human sins.
So
Father (Live) x Holy Gost (live) x Jesus (die on de croz) =?
Is trinity still exist when jesus died?
how formula should be?
1x1x0=?, Supposed 2 be 0 rite?
if 1+1+1 = 1, during period jesus deth, the formula 1+1+0=?, error or still one?

Lets say jesus deth 4 human, which part from jesus die? human? God? If God should die 4 human then God shuold not said + ask help from anatner god (the Father) - Eli Eli Lama Sabaktani? - God, God, Y do U forseken me?

The Father + Holy Gost foseken Jesus?
1+1-1=? or 1x1-1=?

anti_aktivis

"""1x1x0=?, Supposed 2 be 0 rite?
if 1+1+1 = 1, during period jesus deth, the formula 1+1+0=?, error or still one?""""

Funny and true 1x1x0 (0 mean nothing because  jesus is dead which claim by some ppl) the anwser is 0. Hmmm no God . Ki ki , damn funny

anti_aktivis

terlebih kuah , pls delete ur above posting . it killing me , after 1 hour I still laughing and if u have mercy , delete it before I run out breath

sparrow

neither... where did u guys get the idea of describing God using a mathematical formula anyway?

i'm not here to offend anybody, but i've been reading a lot of articles here, disputing whether God is one, two or three persons in the Christian belief.
so, i'm intrigued by the questions, and i'd like to share my answers to your questions.

so in reply to the above question:
let me ask u a question in a similar manner: u are a human... u have a physical body, a soul and a spiritual nature

a human = body + soul + spirit

so how many persons are you? 1 or 3? are you 1x1x1 or 1+1+1?
neither, right? as someone mentioned above, you are one being instead of 3 separate beings.

well, you are just one person, right? use the same concept on God... and you may be able to see the answer! =)

so a better way to describe it is THREE-in-ONE -
just like your 3-in-one shampoo... (this is the closest thing i can find to describe.. tho it's not that exact either.

[ Last edited by sparrow on 14-5-2005 at 11:15 AM ]

sparrow

Originally posted by Terlebih Kuah

Jesus died for entire human sins.
So
Father (Live) x Holy Gost (live) x Jesus (die on de croz) =?
Is trinity still exist when jesus died?
how ...

uhm... in case you didn't realise, Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day

so yeah, God the Son still exists.. and living too!

greekgod

Originally posted by sparrow at 14-5-2005 05:09 AM:
neither... where did u guys get the idea of describing God using a mathematical formula anyway?

i'm not here to offend anybody, but i've been reading a lot of articles here, disputing whether ...

Well said sparrow.

3-in-1 shampoo..

let have another easy example according to your idea,
3-in-1 milo, and it made a packet of milo.

but, dont forget, those 3 items can be separated into, sugar powder, milk powder and cocoa powder itself.

it is describing a group or mixed of 3 different items. If it can be applied to your god, then it will be well understood that your god is mixed of three different gods.

and these three different gods can live separately, but still known as a family-god!

How would that sound to you sparrow?

sparrow

Originally posted by sparrow at 14-5-2005 11:09 AM:
so a better way to describe it is THREE-in-ONE -
just like your 3-in-one shampoo... (this is the closest thing i can find to describe.. tho it's not that exact either.

i did say that it's only a CLOSEST example that i can find, and i did say that it's not exactly that either... perhaps my mistake, but then again, we are all trying to describe God in human terms aren't we?

LOL.. i DIDN'T say MILO!! i said shampooo!! (why did you change my example??)
yes, milo may be cocoa+sugar+milk powder... but shampoo-not really.
the 3-in-one shampoo works as a shampoo, and conditioner and nourisher (let's say, egg... (i'm using a conditioning egg shampoo lah.. for example only).. but it's not reallly shampoo and conditioner and egg mixed together right? (well, before processing.. maybe, i don't know... but literally, u can't just pour shampoo and conditioner and crack an egg an mix together on your head.. it just doesn't add up to what you get from the bottle the same way your milo does... it is just ONE solution.. but contain the properties of a regular shampoo, conditioner and nourisher all in one
(ok.. better stop this shampoo business, or someone might kick this thread to the Beauty forum.. haha!)

right.. you are going to argue that there are alot of ingredients used to make my shampoo.. well.. i hv nothing to say to that..
i'm using a HUMAN-MADE item to give an idea to the three-in-one concept (my shampoo was made by human, so naturally it was made out of ingredients found in this world, but God was never created by anyone else, to begin with....)

what i was just trying to describe is,
three elements in the shampoo,  one shampoo, but it does three things to our hair...
three persons in God.. ONE God, but He reveals Himself to us in three ways...

perhaps the human=body+soul+spirit is a better example than the shampoo after all...

to see the point, i suppose you'll hv to understand what God the Father means, what God the Son means, and what Holy Spirit means.. then you get a better of picture of God revealing Himself to us in the three ways...

[ Last edited by sparrow on 14-5-2005 at 02:15 PM ]

Terlebih Kuah

Originally posted by sparrow at 2005-5-14 11:17 AM:
uhm... in case you didn't realise, Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day

so yeah, God the Son still exists.. and living too!

I realise dat.
The point is.... trinity was collapes during the death of jesus.  wehre xplaination abt trinity during de deth of jesus?

1x1x0= error...

1 mo point is... Jesus was yell to whom? De Fader or Holy Gost?
Eli Eli lama Sabakhtani?
My God, My God, Y do U foseken Me?
Jesus never mention De Fader + Holy Gost?
It seem Jesus was foseken by anathor  2 god here? It seem trinity not work very well here..

If sambody  say MYGOD... There is 2 defferent parts. GOD - 1 part, person who say mygod - 1 part. So Jesus said My God, My God it show dat jesus is NOT GOD.... Not supose 2 said my god but De Fader or De Holy Gost.

sparrow

When do people's spirit die when their body dies? Not in Christianity, we believe that altho our body die, our spirit lives on.. and will be destined to go to heaven, or to hell. Jesus died physically, but not His spirit.

Jesus was yelling to GOD. I know you guys have difficulties understanding this. God in three persons, doesn't mean there are three Gods - it's just that God revealed Himself to us in three ways. (ie, we see Him in three ways, we come to know Him in three ways He works with us, and shows Himself to us in three ways...)

God the Father - the God Almighty, all knowing, all loving,.. all things great and mighty  
God the Son - God is revealed to us through God the Son (ie, Jesus Christ). ie, we come back God through Jesus - it is through Jesus death, that we are can come back to God.. (after being separated from God because of sin).
God the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God that fills our hearts, after we believe in the Lord Jesus. (ie, the holy spirit that guides us in God's truth and love)

When we pray, we don't pray to God the father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit separately, we just pray to GOD as one being.


sigh.... any Christian wanna add on to this?

Oreng

Originally posted by sparrow at 2005-5-15 07:57 PM:I know you guys have difficulties understanding this.

Not only us, but YOU as well. You are pretending as if you understand. God is ABSOLUTE ONE, that is very much better and easily understood. God make us easy to understand Him, not difficult. I think it is your bible translators that make it difficult for you.

Oreng

Originally posted by sparrow at 2005-5-14 11:09 AM:a human = body + soul + spirit

body cannot act on its own. soul cannot act on its own. But, god jesus can act on its own, and father god can act on his own. ability to act on its own is a proof that each is separate entity.

Oreng

Originally posted by sparrow at 2005-5-15 07:57 PM:we come back God through Jesus - it is through Jesus death, that we are can come back to God.. (after being separated from God because of sin).

Getting more interesting.

Do you mean that initially man are part of god ?

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by sparrow at 15-5-2005 07:57 PM:
When do people's spirit die when their body dies? Not in Christianity, we believe that altho our body die, our spirit lives on.. and will be destined to go to heaven, or to hell. Jesus died physica ...

Do you mean god suffer multiple personality problem? Hmmmmm interesting , and don't tell me there might be the 4th god which is psyco therapist GOD

sparrow

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-5-2005 09:37 AM:
Getting more interesting.

Do you mean that initially man are part of god ?

Pardon me for my bad English language.. i don't mean to make it douns this way..

what i meant by separated from God, and come back to God.. i didn' mean to make it sound as if we were part of God. it's just this:

When human were made back in the beginning (Adam and Eve) - human were sinless then. At that time, they can walk and talk with God, ie, they can communicate with God directly. When they sinned, this relationship was broken. We are separated from communicating with God because of sin. (why? because god is holy) And because of this, we cannot go to heaven when we die.

Jesus died to bear the punishment of sin for us. Since our sins have been suffered for, through our Lord Jesus Christ, we are now forgiven. And since we are forgiven, we can now come back to God directly and communicate with God again.

Get the idea?