HINDUISM IS NOT THE OLDEST AND BEST RELIGION

salam03

ke kau pun terasa sama..kau terasa pendatang kat mesia ni ke...? pelik la kau ni...kalau barney50 terasa aku paham..ni kau pulak terasa...? kau pendatang gak ke..?

tickmeoff

eleh.. jangan lari dari topik, ko sesat ker?

salam03

ha'ah..kau baca balik apa topik kat atas tu...

" HINDUISM IS NOT THE OLDEST AND BEST RELIGION" kan...?

WLIO

Originally posted by barney50 at 21-3-2007 10:08 PM
responded by salam03:


Where did you great great grandfather come from? Could you please tellme. Where were you great great grandfather when the first dayParameswara set foot on the islad of Temasek? Any clue? Start thinkingbefore you call others pendatang. 1000 years ago this land was acomplete jungle inhabited by orang Jakuns and Sakais who are now knownas orang asli. So tell me were your ancestors among these people?  Timeto think my dear fellow....

Oh ! my great great great great ...................................... grand parents come from HEAVEN.

You know who they are

ADAM dan HAWA ( peace be upon them )

kharrrrrr   kharrrrrr   kharrrrrr

wei_loon5063

pendatang? non-malay?
i do not agree with barney on other comment but on the post #55 i totally
agree with barney...
like the americans...... the red indians are the orang asli..
the first batch americans start to call second, third batch or pendatang as
immigrants....
now globalization is pon us and people are immigrating here and there..... so....
are we all pendatang here n there as well? do not think sesat`ly....

wei_loon5063

hindu is the oldest? what about the african zulu religion? the mesopotamian? the babylonian? the greek religion?
as i learn in history the mesopotamian(currently iran) is the oldest civilization in
the world... they have their own religion.... are they older than hindusim?
also china`s yee jing..... its also dated back 3000b.c

barney50

1. responded by wei_loon5063:hindu is the oldest? what about the african zulu religion? the mesopotamian? the babylonian? the greek religion?
   
2. 
   
3. as i learn in history the mesopotamian(currently iran) is the oldest civilization in
   
4. 
   
5. the world... they have their own religion.... are they older than hindusim?
   
6. 
   
7. also china`s yee jing..... its also dated back 3000b.c

Copy the Code

Let us talk about civilized religions. Read it carefully before you jump to any conclusion.

Dravidian Religion

Of the five continents, Asia alone is the birthplace of the Major WorldReligions. Of the existing major religions, Jainism, Buddhism, Six-fold religion (Saivism,Vaishnavism, Saktham, Gowmarram, Ganapathyam, Sowram) and Sikhism were founded in India.Other religions like Israelites' religion, Judaism, Christianity and Islam were founded inAsia but outside India.

The common father of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Israelites' religionwas Abraham (Ibrahim). The Bible says that Abraham was from a place called 'Ur' 1,the Capital of the Sumerian Kings. 'Ur ' is a Tamil word for a village or a town.

It is said in the Bible that eight persons of the family of Noah, who isthe forefather of Abraham, alone escaped from the flood since they were in the ark.2When Noah's Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat, those eight people who were in the ark,started multiplying and moving towards other areas and their culture and language spreadwhereever they went.

  

   

"Now the whole world had one language and one speech. And it came    to pass as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar,    and they dwell there."3

  

According to recent research, Sumerians were not the original inhabitantsof Sumeria but came from outside and settled there. The following statements furtherexplain it.

  

   

"At some time before the dawn of history, people whom we called    Sumerians moved into Babylonia from the East."4

  

says George A. Barton.

It is given in 'The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia' that theSumerians have cultural links with the Indus Valley culture of India as follows.

  

   

"The original homeland of the Sumerians is unknown, but there is    no question that they did enter Mesopotamia from outside area. Their language includes    many non-Sumerian words for basic economic concepts such as farmer, herdsman    etc.,.......... One theory is that the Sumerians came from the mountainous region to the    north east. Most scholars, however, believe that the Sumerians arrived via the Persian    gulf, because the concentration of the Sumerian population in historic times was in what    is now Southern Iraq. Early Sumerian history also shows signs of cultural links with the    Indus Valley culture of India."5

  

It should be noted that Indus Valley civilization is of the Dravidians.
The teakwood from Chera country found in the place called 'Ur' the capital of theSumerian Kings shows the trade relationship between South India and Sumeria before 4000B.C. says Sayce.6 K.K. Pillai points out the trade relationshipbetween Babylonians and the Tamilians noted on the clay plaques were found in Nippur inBabylonia. They also give evidence for the settlement of Tamilians in Babylon7.

  P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar quotes H.R. Hall and further explains it as follows.
  "Says H.R.Hall, 'And it is to this Dravidian ethnic type of India that the  ancient Sumerian bears most resemblance, so far as we can judge from his monuments. He was  very like a Southern Hindu of the Dekkan (who still speaks Dravidian languages)."8  

Apart from these, there are ample evidences that show the relationship between theDravidians and the Sumerians.9
Dravidian Memorial Stone
One of the ancient Dravidian worships that could be seen in the Dravidian religions isthe 'memorial stone worship.' The memorial stone found in the Indus Valley worship iscalled Sivalinka . The term Sivalinka was coined in the later period (after 3rd c.A.D.)but this worship is very ancient.
In the term 'Sivalinka', Siva denotes God of love10and linka meanssymbol. Hence the term 'Sivalinka' means symbol of love or symbol of God11.The term belongs to a later period. It is totally misinterpreted and degraded by theAryans as a phallic symbol, since it is an object of Dravidian worship.12
The Dravidian worship is the basis for the Dravidian religions. The Indus Valleycivilization shows the Ancient Dravidian worship explicitly. In India there existed manyforms of worship and religions. Worship is universal but religion requires literature,philosophy or theology. A distinction between worship and religion is made on this basis.
Indus Valley Worship
In the Indus Valley civilization people worshipped God in semiform (Memorial stoneworship), female form, demigods form..... Many memorial stones called Sivalinkas (whichmean symbol of love or God) are excavated in Harappa and Mohenjadaro and Ring Stones andsymbols like Swastika etc., occur. Mother goddess worship or female worship played asignificant role in the Indus Valley. Usually the goddesses and gods are symbolicallyrepresented by horns on their heads. Sacrifice did take place in the Indus Valley worship. Bull is often seen on the Indus Valley seals and trees are venerated as they are veryoften seen on the seals.13
Jainism and Buddhism (6th c. B.C.)
In Jainism and Buddhism, the memorial stone worship is known as Stupa. In memory ofBuddha, Mahavir, and the Buddhist and Jain Teachers, they installed the stupas andworshipped them. Ayagapathas, snakes, trees and many symbols are there and are given asignificant place.

Ancient Dravidian Worship
Reference about Ancient Dravidian Worship can be seen in the ancient Tamil literatureknown as the Sankam literature, which is dated between 3rd c.B.C. and 3rd c.A..D. and canbe extended up to the 7th c.A.D. In this worship the memorial stones are known as Kanthu14.People offered sacrifice and worshipped God in female and male form. Amongst the gods andgoddesses, Kotravai (goddess of Victory) and Velan played a vital role, and hero worshipwas prevalent then.
Six-fold Religion
Ancient Dravidian Worship was later on developed into Six-fold religion and the worshipof Sivalinka is developed in different angles in these Six-fold religion.
The Memorial stone worship, the ancient Dravidian worship was also seen in theDravidian religions which developed outside India since they are all the branches ofDravidian religion. Besides these memorial stones there are many more objects which havecorrelations amongst the Indus Valley worship and the other Dravidian religious worshipswhich developed outside India.
The following are the Dravidian religions that developed outside India

  

   

• The Religion of the Israelites
• Judaism
• Christianity and
• Islam.

  

barney50

continuation:

Israelite worship and religion
Memorial stone worship is widely prevalent in Israelite worship and it is known as astone pillar in the Old Testament of the Bible. For instance, when Jacob had a vision, hetook the stone which was kept as a pillow by him while he slept on the way, and set it upfor a pillar and poured oil on the top of it, and he said,

  

   

'and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God's    house; and of all that thou givest me I will give the tenth to thee'15

  

A stone pillar stands as witness between Laban and Jacob.16
Before Moses went up on the mount Sinai, he built an altar at the foot of the mountain,and set up twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel and an altar.17
When the Israelites passed over Jordan, Joshua set up 12 stones in the midst of Jordan.18

Also Joshua set up a stone under an oak and the following verses explain about it.

  `And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great  stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.
  And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us;  for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore  a witness unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.'19

Samuel set up a stone in Ebenezer and worshipped God.20 Hence, thestone pillar worship was widely prevalent in the Israelite worship.
Stone Pillar, Altar and Calf
Jeroboam, the king of Israel, set a calf in Bethel and another one in Dan and offeredsacrifices upon the altar.21So in the Israelite worship memorial stone,sacrificial altar and Calf were present and these three are present in the Saivite templesof India.
According to historical analysis, the earliest instance for the form of worshipmentioned above is found in the Bible from the period of Jacob to Hosea (approx. 1700B.C.-722 B.C.), whereas the Saivite temples which also have the memorial stone, altar andcalf are found in the post-Christian era.
Judaism
In Judaism, instead of memorial stone worship, temple worship is seen. Instead ofplacing a stone and worshipping God, they built a temple which was built of many stonesand offered sacrifice upon the altar and worshipped God. In Judaism, a single memorialstone worship had developed into a temple and there are no stone pillars and the image ofthe calf inside the temple.
Indus Valley and Old Testament
Reference to the tree Moreh finds a place in the Old Testament. People gathered underthe tree to hear the word of God. God revealed Himself to Abraham under the tree.22Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beer - Sheba and there called on the name of the Lord.23People made Abimelech as a King beside the great tree at the pillar in shechem.24Joshua installed a pillar under the Oak in the sanctuary of the Lord and worshipped God.25The bones of King Saul and his sons were buried under the tamarisk tree in Jabesh.26 Peoplemade offerings upon the hills under Oak, Poplar, and Terebinth.27
As in the Indus Valley worship, the figures with horns represent divinity, the hornsrepresent divinity (god), ruling authority (King) and Teaching authority (Guru) in Sumeriaand Babylonia too, says Marshall.28
In the Old Testament, the horns represent power, victory and ruling power.29The loss of power, victory or ruling power were symbolically represented by the cuttingoff of the horns.30
In Babylonia, seals bearing the figures of deities with horns and in Palestine deitieswith horns have been excavated. Graven stones like Ring Stones which are found in theIndus Valley were also seen in the Israelite's worship.31 Many suchsimilarities occur between the Indus Valley worship and the Israelite worship whichobserved the elements of the Sumerian, Egyptian, Cannanite .....worships.
Christianity
The Dravidian memorial stone worship as was found among the Israelites, attained itsfulfillment in Christ and he is referred to as the living stone in Christianity.

  "Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God's sight chosen  and precious....
  Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a corner stone chosen and precious, and he who  believes in him will not be put to shame "32

Referring to the 'Son of God' as living stone in Christianity leads to the ideology ofcalling everyone of us as the temple of God.

  "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's spirit dwells in  you?"33
  "For we are the temple of the living God."34

This same concept is also in Saivism.35
Islam
The same memorial stone worship could be seen in the Islamic worship also.36Amongst the five important duties of a Muslim, one is to pay a visit to Mecca and worshipthere.
The Encyclopedia Britannica elucidates;

  Every Muslim who makes pilgrimage is required to walk around the Ka'bah seven  times, during which process he kisses and touches the black stone ... Muslims consider the  Ka'bah the most sacred spot on earth and they recite their prayers looking in its  direction...37

In Mecca there is Ka'bha (or Qaaba) and a black stone (memorial stone) and, it isbelieved to be the Old Sivalinka. Malkani says:

  "Also much of what passes for Islam is Pre - Mohammedan Arab tribal  customs, Qaaba, says Syed, is believed to be an old Shivalinka."38

A person who reaches Mecca for worship he should change his clothes whoever he may beand wear only white dhoti and a white towel which are unstitched, go around the Ka'bhaagain and again and kiss the memorial stone as a mark of his worship. They claim that theyworship in the way their forefather Abraham (Ibrahim) worshipped.
Scholars are of the opinion that wearing unstitched white dhoti and a white towel andgoing around a stone kissing and worshipping it, are the Tamilian or the Dravidian methodof worship. Thus we find the memorial stone worship in all the Dravidian religions. Thereare many such historical links found among these religions since they are the developmentsof the same religion.
The term 'Dravidian religion' is based on the Dravidian race and includes all thereligions which take their origin from the Dravidians.

barney50

continuation:

Reference

• Genesis 11:31
• Genesis 8
• Genesis 11:1 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
• George A. Barton, Archaeology and the Bible, American Sunday School Union, 3rd    ed.,      Philadelphia,1920
• The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia - Vol IV, Goefrey    W. Bromiley (Gen.        Ed.) and others, Michigan,    William B. Eerdmans publishing company, Grand                            Rapids, Reprinted        1991.
• K.K. Pillai, Tamilaka Varalaru - Makkalun Panpadum, Madras Tamil    Nadu Text Book        Society, 1972, Pp.49-50
• Ibid - P.49
• P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar, History of the Tamils, (from the    earliest times to 600 A.D.), New Delhi, Asian Educational Services, 1982, _Pp. 36-37.
• (i) Ernest Mackay, Early Indus Civilzation, New Delhi    Indological Book corporation, 1976 (ii) D. Devakala Jothimani, Origin and    development of Tamil Bhakti Movement ( in the light of Bible) (in Tamil), Dept of    Christian Tamil literature, University of Madras, 1993.
• Thirumular Thirumantiram p.257
• 'Sivalinka Worship in Bible', 'Dravida Samayam', October 1994 - Research Movement    for the study of   Dravidian Religion, Chennai -23
• Rigveda, vii : 21 : 5; and x.99.3 'Sisna devas'
• (i) Ernest Mackay, Op.Cit.,  (ii) JohnMarshall, Mohenjodaro and the    IndusCivilization Vol&Vol.II,Arthur Probsthin, London - 1931.
• (i) Pattinappaalai - pp. 246 -249  (ii)Purananooru - 52 : 12-13
• Genesis 28 : 16-22; 35:14
• Genesis 31:41-48
• Exodus 24:4
•   Joshua 4:9
• Joshua 24:26,27 King James Version (KJV)
• 1 Samuel 7:12
• 1Kings 12:28-33  Genesis 13:18
• Genesis 21:33
• Judges 9:6
• Joshua 24:26
• 1 Samuel 31:12,13
• Hosea 4:13
• John Marshall, Op.Cit., Vol.I, P.55
• Deuteronomy 33:17; Micah 4:13; Psalms 92:10
• Jeremiah 48:25
• Leviticus 26:1
• 1 Peter 2 : 4
• .I Corinthians 3:16 (RSV)
• II Corinthians 6:16 (RSV)
• Thirumular Thirumantiram 1821
• .Gnana Robinson, 'Isravelar Samayam', T.T.B.C, C.L.S., Madras. P.62
• . Encyclopaedia Britannica-Vol.5, Micropaedia, 15th (Ed), 1982.
• . K.R. Malkani, 'Why a Separate Sindh', Indian Express, Madras,    February 2,1992

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by barney50 at 21-3-2007 06:45 AM
CHINA, MELAYU, INDIA DAN PORTUGESE SEMUA PENUMPANG NEGARA INI.

HANYA KAUM ASLI YANG BERASAL DARI NEGARA MALAYASIA INI.

barney.. this is the only thing you say that i could agree with....
is it a scenario we seen before?? america.....
the original american which is the red indians..
the christopher columbus batch(from UK)
claimed they owned the land of america
reminds me of the Pocahantas OST... colour of the wind..... the starting part...
"you think you own whatever land you land on, the earth is just a dead thing
you can claim...."
then the second and next batch of
immigrants of british and other europians are deemed to be "pendatang" to the
first batch of british wana be americans.... so... what say you now? who is the
pendatang in america??
why cant we all just abandoned thephysical differences mindset and embrace
and integrate the similarities within that we are all malaysians.... anak malaysia
racist card will be raised by our children if we do not abandon the differences and do not
judge other by our colour or religion..... other people have their belief and some belief might
be contradicting to other religion.... why not we just keep it to ourself and practise it by
OURSELF as it is us who believe it and do not judge other religion on our religion.
if other people from other religion is making a stupid comment on your religion, they might be stupid and
ignorant as they do not understant your religion and making a judgement on their view...

SONofODIN

Originally posted by prototaip at 19-3-2007 07:22 PM
Islam will not die....instead all religions other than Islam will totally die....so sad...

Just wait and see...and you will regret later....The evil will be destroyed and the justice will  ...

????? Soooo .... childlish