Aku nak tanya pada muslim..

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 10:13 AM
berbalik dgn nun pakai tudung....kita kena faham mereka adalah nun sama macam monk , paderi , sami hindu...mereka berpakaian begitu...

OK , cuba terangkan 1cor11:6

(1 Corinthians 11:6), "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head."

Apa makna 'she should cover her head'? Bukan 'self grooming' yg kamu dok bebel.

Truth.8

sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 11:04 AM
Now you are trying to change your argument. Nobody is in disagreement that the breast should be co ...

u fail in this thread...

.Misconception: Muslim women must fully cover up in Islam

Background: Some think that Muslim women must cover their whole body, including face when in public. Women's dress code in Islam is one of the most focussed upon subjects not only in the Western media but also in Muslim countries, yet it remains one of the most distorted and misunderstood.

Firstly, according to The Quran, the most important rule of the dress code for both men and women is as follows:

O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as to adorn you. But the best garment is the garment of piety/righteousness. These are some of God's signs, so that they may be mindful. [7:26]

The garment of righteousness/piety could either refer to choosing a garment that reflects this quality or enveloping oneself in righteous/pious conduct is best, or both.

The following verses tells women to guard their private parts (i.e. genitalia) and cover their chests:

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it, and let them draw with their covers over their chests. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed. [24:30-31]

From the above verse it can be deduced that for the purposes of women's dress code two types of beauty are described:

1) What is apparent (this can be revealed in public)
2) What is hidden (this type must be covered in public, but could be revealed by a striking of feet or walk/stride which is revealing)

Such a striking of feet or walk could only reveal a limited number of parts of the body, e.g. the private parts, buttocks, thighs, breasts, hips, thus any part not revealed by such an action should not be considered part of hidden beauty and therefore part of apparent beauty. Of course, this means such things as face, hair, hands, feet etc would not clearly fall into the category of beauty that is meant to be hidden. Furthermore, the verse clearly brackets what beauty it is referring to by saying "...the child who has not yet understood the composition of women" implying it is relating to what is specific to a woman (i.e. what is different between man and woman) nothing else.
This understanding would also fit with The Quran's instruction on the body parts that are to be cleansed during daily ablution (hands, arms, face, head and feet), see 5:6, 4:43.

A headscarf (commonly called "hijab") is often worn by Muslim women, however this word is not used like this in The Quran. In fact, the word "hijab" is not even used to mean an item of clothing and simply means something which intervenes between two things, e.g. barrier, screen, seclusion. All verses where this word occurs are as follows: 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45, 19:17, 83:15. It should also be noted that believing men and women are free to eat in each other's company, whether family or friends [24:61], thus a veil covering the face (commonly called "niqab", or the full veil "burqa") would obviously be impractical. Again, such an item of clothing is nowhere to be found in The Quran.

Another common mistake regarding dress code is when the following situation-specific verse is applied to all situations:

And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen (or draw near) over themselves their outer-garments. That is more likely they be recognized so not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
If the hypocrites and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain*, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbours except for a short while. [33:58-60]
*proving harm is already occurring, and refers back to 33:58, which is before the modification in dress is mentioned.

The mistake is exposed when the practicalities of applying the above verses are considered. The verses deal with open enmity with significant repercussions for the perpetrators if this behaviour does not stop. The open enmity is direct to the person, hence the need for the women to modify their outer-garment in order to be recognised in public and not harmed. For the suggested solution in these verses to succeed four things must be in place:

1) The open enmity or harm must be present in the community first and direct to the women
2) The modification in outer-garment and the consequence for the perpetrator of not abiding by this identification code must either be made known to the community or this would have to be common knowledge amongst the community
3) The modification recommended would be enough to differentiate one group from another
4) The authority is in place to fight/expel those persisting in this behaviour

Clearly, this specific criteria has to be fulfilled for these verses to work, thus is not a universal rule. It is situation-specific, e.g. if a section of the community become hostile to believing women or women in general and the believers have some power in the land, then they can utilise this solution, effectively giving an ultimatum with no room for excuse for the perpetrators.

These verses are commonly interpreted to mean that Muslim women must lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garment whenever in public even in times of peace. However, this is easily refuted by considering that if this was the case and open enmity then appeared, the modification suggested in these verses would already exist, thus implementing the modification in these verses could not be done, thus rendering the solution described in these verses as void.
However, from these verses it can be deduced that wearing of an outer-garment by women when in public was the norm.

The following verse shows being clothed is the norm but makes it clear that flexibility is allowed in certain situations, as long as we are mindful of modesty. The context is etiquette within the household:

And the women who are past child bearing and who do not seek to get married have no sin upon them if they discard their garments*, provided they do not show off with their beauty. If they abstain, then it is better for them. God is Hearer, Knower. [24:60]
*Arabic word is "thiyab" and refers to ordinary clothes/gowns.

It should be noted that all examples of dress in The Quran of the righteous or believing men and women involve wearing garments, e.g. 18:31, 22:23, 24:58, 24:60, 35:33, 74:4, 76:21. Also, to provide clothing for others is considered a charitable or righteous act [4:5, 2:233, 5:89].

As can be seen, The Quran gives us a set of simple basic rules with flexible guidance for the rest, which can be applied to different situations/society/function. This flexibility is a mercy but has unfortunately been abused by various schools of thought and religious leaders who have issued their own additional rulings and consequently there is disagreement amongst them on other than the basic rules.


coming more and more proof that women head covering is not a must

Truth.8

sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 11:06 AM
OK , cuba terangkan 1cor11:6

Apa makna 'she should cover her head'? Bukan 'self grooming' yg ka ...

already explained ...browse thru

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 12:49 PM
u fail in this thread...

.Misconception: Muslim women must fully cover up in Islam

You are going round and round chasing your own backside. Issit because you do not have an answer? Again and again you make the mistake that hijab = head covering , despite it being pointed out to be wrong. I am beginning  to think that you are mentally challenged.

Your contention :

coming more and more proof that women head covering is not a must

Where is your proof? So far all you have are articles by these so called authors who do not read much less understand arabic. The Quran24:31 explicitly stated of head cover with the word


Authoritative sources like Lane Lexicon and Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran confirm it to be head covering. The foremost scholar Dr Yusuf Qaradawi confirm such along with the scholars from the 4 schools.

Where is your evidence? Articles from lay muslims or polemicist who do not read much less understand arabic don't count. By the way do you know what is scholarship? Appears that you don't.

Provide your proof. Pssst .... do you know what is proof or evidence? I don't think you know. Else you won't be running around like a headless chicken.

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 12:51 PM
already explained ...browse thru

No , you did not explain. All you have been arguing is that the phrase 'cover up' in 1cor11:6 means self grooming which I think is absurd.

The question again : 1cor11:6

"If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head."

What is the meaning of 'she chould cover her head'?

Truth.8

sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 01:26 PM
You are going round and round chasing your own backside. Issit because you do not have an answer?  ...

until now you have not provide soild explanation base the quran did not mention about the covering...all you provide is your  own assumption. poor you

Again:

About Islam; Why Do Muslim Women Have To Wear Head Covers? by Kris A.O.

Many people in the West believe head covers are required attire for Muslim Women. Most Muslim women, for that matter, are not sure what God's exact requirements are for their "Islamic" dress code. Since religious scholars come from diverse religious schools of thought, then of course there are vast differences between what's consider to be appropriate women's clothing. Some believe head covers are a necessity for pious Muslim women, while others don't. In order to come to the correct understanding on required garments, it is important to explore what God tells us through His scripture, the Quran. Refering back to the Quran allows us to avoid confusion from contrasting opinions. There will be no contradictions, and the truth will be exhibited.

Upon referencing the English Quran tanslation by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, we find nowhere in the Quran does it require women to cover their hair, arms, legs, etc. The religious rules imposing head covers, or Hijab, are from sources outside of the Quran; mainly from religious scholar’s edicts, and Hadith [1]. However, it is not wrong to wear head covers on account of cultural tradition, and so rules should not be imposed stating that head covers can not be worn. The rules in the Quran for women’s dress code are as follows. First, the best garment is the garment of righteousness; for women and men [2]. Second, women shall cover their chests, and reveal only what is necessary. This implies modesty [3]. Third, women shall lengthen their garments to be recognized as righteous [4]. Fourth and final, women AND men shall subdue their eyes and maintain their chastity [5]. We can now see that in the Quran, the parameters of the Muslim women's dress code are simple and unimposing [6].

Relevant Quran Verses: [1] 12:111, 31:6, 39:23, 39:29, 45:6, 52:34; [2] 7:26; [3] 24:31; [4] 33:59; [5] 24:30-31; [6] Appendix 18, and Appendix 19 of the Quran translation by Rashad Khalifa.

ibnur

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 03:00 PM
until now you have not provide soild explanation base the quran did not mention about the covering ...

Mister Truth,

You can bring Rashid Khalifa opinion and take that as what you believe.

To real muslim who follows quran and sunnah, his opinion is rejected.

How BIG or small your alphabet to attaract attention, it will not change the true facts about true Islam.

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 03:00 PM
until now you have not provide soild explanation base the quran did not mention about the covering...all you provide is your  own assumption. poor you

Ha ha , anyone who read your response would be laughing their asses off. Ignorance seem to be a value to you. You have been proven wrong but you still persist despite being embarrassed to no end. At this point I really do not know whether to laugh or take pity on you. I feel that I have embarassed you enough but you still come back for more.

Do you have problems understanding the english language? I provided evidence from
(1) Lane Lexicon
(2) Glossary of the Koran
(3) Contemporary fatwa by the scholar Dr Yusuf Qaradawi
(these being the foremost authority(ies))
that in Quran24:31 states of head covering due to the word


Suddenly in your wild imagination , you argue that its my assumption. Is there something mentally wrong with you? I know you are trapped but the very least try to argue with intelligence. Why are you trying to bulldoze your way? Such is the action of people who are unable to think and utilize their intelligence , if you have any.

Upon referencing the English Quran tanslation by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, we find nowhere in the Quran does it require women to cover their hair, arms, legs, etc. The religious rules imposing head covers, or Hijab, are from sources outside of the Quran; mainly from religious scholar’s edicts, and Hadith

Translation by Dr Rashad Khalifa? This person has been deemed a deviant as he altered the Quran to suit his obsession with the so called number 19 miracle. Ha ha , is this the person that you refer to? He is not a scholar. He is just a layman who tried to alter the Quran to fit to his obsession with the number 19 so called numerical miracle. You must be out or your mind to appeal to Dr Rashad Khalifa. Oops , I really think you are out of your mind. You have been going around like a headless chicken - no direction.

Why do you appeal to translation? You should look into the arabic text because my argument is based on the arabic text. Oops , you don't know arabic. Well for that matter , english is also problematic for you.

My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

Until now you have nothing except copy paste from sites like 'free minds' , ' answering Islam' etc. You are in trouble , aren't you? Its ok , it is not shameful for your case to admit that you are wrong. Ha ha

Truth.8

ibnur posted on 16-4-2014 04:02 PM
Mister Truth,

You can bring Rashid Khalifa opinion and take that as what you believe.

Mister Truth,

You can bring Rashid Khalifa opinion and take that as what you believe.

To real muslim who follows quran and sunnah, his opinion is rejected.

How BIG or small your alphabet to attaract attention, it will not change the true facts about true Islam.

than  you peoples has been misquided...simple as that

Truth.8

sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 04:22 PM
Ha ha , anyone who read your response would be laughing their asses off. Ignorance seem to be a va ...

for u everything is laymen...sometime it make wonder whether God cursed you ?

Question: Does the Quran Require Women to Wear the Veil?
One of the most visibly contentious issues in Islam as well as in the Western world is women's wearing of the veil. To western feminists, the veil is a symbol of oppression. To many Muslims, it can equally be a symbol and an act of empowerment, both for its explicit rejection of Western values and its implicit meaning as a status symbol: many Muslims see the veil as a sign of distinction, the more so because it evokes a connection to the Prophet Muhammad and his wives. But does the Quran, in fact, require women to cover themselves--with a veil, a chador or any other form of head covering?

Answer: The quick answer is no: the Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador, as in Iran and Afghanistan. But the Quran does address the matter of veiling in such a way that it has been interpreted historically, if not necessarily correctly, by Muslim clerics as applying to women.
Historical PerspectiveThe veiling of women was not an Islamic innovation but a Persian and Byzantine-Christian custom that Islam adopted. For most of Islam’s history, the veil in its various forms was seen as a sign of distinction and protection for upper-class women. Since the 19th century, the veil has come to represent a more assertive, self-consciously Islamic expression, sometimes in reaction to Western currents--colonialism, modernism, feminism.

The Veil in the QuranInitially in Prophet Muhammad's life, the veil was not an issue. His wives didn't wear it, nor did he require that other women wear it. As he became more important in his community, and as his wives gained stature, Muhammad began adapting Persian and Byzantine customs. The veil was among those.
The Quran does address veiling explicitly, but only in so far as the Prophet’s wives were concerned. The wives were to be "covered," that is, unseen, when in company of other people. Significantly, the Quran's requirement did not mention a veil as it’s understood in the West—as a face covering—but a hijab, in the sense of a "curtain," or a separation of sorts. Here is the relevant passage in the Quran, best known as the "Verses of the Curtain":

Believers, do not enter the houses of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless you are given leave. But if you are invited, enter; and when you have eaten, disperse. Do not engage in familiar talk, for this would annoy the Prophet and he would be ashamed to bid you go; but of the truth God is not ashamed. If you ask his wives for anything, speak to them from behind a curtain. This is more chaste for your hearts and their hearts. (Sura 33:53, N.J. Dawood translation).

What Led Muhammad to Require Some CoveringThe historical context of that passage in the Quran is instructive. Muhammad's wives had been insulted on some occasions by members of the community, leading Muhammad to see some form of segregation for his wives as a protective measure.  One of Muhammad's closest companions, Omar, famously chauvinistic, pressured Muhammad to limit women's roles in his life and to segregate them. The Verses of the Curtain may have been a response to Omar’s pressure. But the event closest connected to the Quran's Verses of the Curtains was Muhammad's wedding to one of his wives, Zaynab, when guests wouldn't leave and acted improperly. Shortly after that wedding, Muhammad produced the "revelation" of the curtain.
Regarding manners of dress, and other than that passage, the Quran requires only that women and men dress modestly. Beyond that, it never requires face or full-body coverings of any form for men or women.

ibnur

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 04:26 PM
than  you peoples has been misquided...simple as that

You will know who is actually being misguided after the end of Time.

mashimaru83

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 04:37 PM
for u everything is laymen...sometime it make wonder whether God cursed you ?

Question: Does th ...

Apparently what you are doing here is just a copy-paste activity. Find some sources from the Internet that fit your view, put it here, size up the fonts, make it colorful and then make a conclusion that Muslims got it all wrong. I don't really see you addressing the issue at all.

It is obvious that the contention here is about the meaning of word 'khimar'. Bro sam1528 had provided the evidence from authoritive source that the 'khimar' means head covering. I don't see from your copy-paste articles saying 'khimar' does not mean 'head covering'. So, where is the evidence (authoritive source) to prove that 'khimar' is not 'head covering'?

Like bro sam1528, I'm eagerly waiting for the evidence!

Truth.8

mashimaru83 posted on 16-4-2014 05:42 PM
Apparently what you are doing here is just a copy-paste activity. Find some sources from the Inter ...

well my copy and paste base on Islam source plus born muslims who are scholar in islamic study  and others. do we need further than that?
here is another:

                Do Muslim women have to be covered from head to toe?
Email with Question:
Dear brother, I am a newly converted muslim woman and I have been having
a lot of pressure on me to cover my whole body except my face. Please give
me any assistance brother that this is not what Muslim women must do, I need
your help because this is not what I really want to do.
‘
Is there any proof from the Quran that this is wrong?
‘
please help me, thank you, Samantha
Reply:
Dear Samantha,

I am glad you wrote to me and not followed whoever is giving you a twisted
version of Islam.
Yes we have proof from the Quran that this is a false claim:
Many so-called Muslim scholare have invented extreme rules for women’s
dress which are not found in the Quran. Some, like the ones putting the pressure
on you, say that all the woman’s body must be covered except for her face,
while others even more extreme say that all the woman’s body must be covered
from head to toe exceot for two holes where the eyes can peep out from!
Proof 1: There are no words in all the Quran where God commands the woman
to cover all her body. We must accept that the Quran has all the details (6:114),
and that God does not forget. If God wanted the woman to cover all her body
from the neck to the feet God would have said that clearly. Those who make
such un-Quranic claims cannot find words in the Quran with such extreme
commands, so they manipulate Quranic words, mainly in 24:31 and 33:59, to
comply with their false claims.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display
of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over
their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or
fathers or husbands’ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their
brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, or their women, or their slaves,
or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women’s
nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of
their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye
may succeed. 24:31
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to
draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better,
so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving,
Merciful. 33:59
Proof 2: The fact that God says in 24:31 to specifically cover the breast indicates
clearly that there are other parts of the woman’s body that do not have to be
covered.
The following example God willing should make the point clear:

Think of your house and in it you have a garden. You have a gardener who
comes to look after your garden. One day you ask him: please water the area
around the trees and also water the back of the garden.
What does this example tell us?

It tells us that since you specified only certain areas to be watered, then this
is a clear indication that there will be other areas in the garden that do not
need to be watered. If you wanted the gardener to water the whole garden you
would have asked exactly that, by saying: please water the whole garden.

When we apply this example to the issue of women’s dress code in the Quran,
the same principle applies, if God wanted the whole body of the woman to be
covered, God would not have bothered saying “cover your chest” since an
overall command to cover all the body would be a more appropriate command,
and it would also be the only command that is needed.
But since God specifies certain parts of the woman’s body to be covered, then
this is clear proof that here are other parts of the woman’s body that do not have
to be covered, as long as there are not beauty spots of sexual connotation (zinah),
and as long as righteousness in dress is maintained (7:26).
O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your
private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness – that is best.
That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember. 7:26
Proof 3: The command to “lengthen the garment” also proves that the woman is
not commanded to be all covered from head to feet. For if that is the case, and
the woman is covered down to the ground, there would be no meaning to
“lengthen the garment”.
“Lengthen your Garments “O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and
the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they
will be recognised and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.” 33:59
How can the woman lengthen a garment that is already down to the ground?
I hope this will help you expose the extreme hypocrites who are distorting the
beautiful religion of Islam.
The following page has more details about the Quranic law regarding women’s dress:
Women’s dress code in the Quran
                        

Truth.8

ibnur posted on 16-4-2014 05:33 PM
You will know who is actually being misguided after the end of Time.

read the topic from begining and you agreed with me.... why on earth want wome covering all over?? is not only good for health but it give wrong idea

The Dress Code for Women in the QuranIntroduction:
Before presenting the Quranic rules for women’s dress, it is essential first
to remind ourselves of the following:
1- The Quran is the only source of law that is authorised by God (6:114).
2- The Quran is complete and fully detailed (6:38, 6:114, 6:89 and 12:111).
3- God calls on His true believers to make sure not to fall in the trap of idol
worship by following the words of the scholars instead of the words of God
(9:31).
“They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and
[also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except
to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above
whatever they associate with Him.” 9:31 4
- God calls those who prohibit what He did not prohibit, aggressors, liars
and idol worshippers (5:87, 6:140, 7:32, 10:59).

“O you who have believed, do not prohibit the good things which Allah
has made lawful to you and do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like
transgressors.” 5:87

“Those will have lost who killed their children in foolishness without
knowledge and prohibited what Allah had provided for them, inventing
untruth about Allah . They have gone astray and were not [rightly]
guided.” 6:140

“Say, “Who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He has produced
for His servants and the good [lawful] things of provision?” Say, “They are
for those who believe during the worldly life [but] exclusively for them on
the Day of Resurrection.” Thus do We detail the verses for a people who
know.” 7:32

Say, “Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of
which you have made [some] lawful and [some] unlawful?” Say, “Has
Allah permitted you [to do so], or do you invent [something]
about Allah ?” 10:59

The command to follow the Quran alone is given very clearly in
the Quran, see: Dozen Reasons
Quranic guidelines for women’s dress
First Rule :
The Best Garment
“O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover
your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment
of righteousness. These are some of God’s signs, that they may take
heed.” 7:26
Righteousness is the basic rule of dress code in the Quran. Any woman
knows quite well what is decent and what is revealing. Women do not need
to be told, they know how to maintain righteousness and how not to.
God created the woman and therefore He knows that she can make that
distinction, and that is why God set this rule of righteousness as the first rule.
Second Rule :
Cover your Bosoms
The second rule can be found in 24:31. Here God commands women to
cover their bosoms. But before quoting 24:31 let us review some crucial
words that are always mentioned with this topic, namely ‘hijab‘ and ‘khimar‘.
The word ‘hijab‘ in the Quran Hijab is the term used by many Muslim
women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering
their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye.
The Arabic word ‘hijab‘ can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other
meanings for the word ‘hijab‘ include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain,
drapes, partition, division, divider.

Can we find the word ‘hijab‘ in the Quran?
The word ‘hijab‘ appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as ‘hijab‘ and
two times as ‘hijaban‘, these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 &
19:17.

Arabic text used :

ihijabin – Patition

hijabun – Partition

Wabaynahuma hijabunwaAAala al-aAArafi rijalun yaAArifoonakullan
biseemahum wanadaw as-habaaljannati an salamun AAalaykum lam
yadkhuloohawahum yatmaAAoon

“And between them will be a partition, and on [its] elevations are men
who recognize all by their mark. And they call out to the companions of
Paradise, “Peace be upon you.” They have not [yet] entered it, but they
long intensely.” 7:46

                                                           ***********************

“O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except
when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But
when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse
without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior]
was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah
is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask
them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their
hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the
Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that
would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.“ 33:53

                                                           ***********************

Faqala innee ahbabtu hubbaalkhayri AAan thikri rabbee hatta
tawaratbilhijab

And he said, “Indeed, I gave preference to the love of good [things] over
the remembrance of my Lord until the sun disappeared into the curtain
[of darkness].” 38:32

                                                           **********************

Waqaloo quloobuna fee akinnatinmimma tadAAoona ilayhi wafee
athaninawaqrun wamin baynina wabaynika hijabun faAAmalinnana
AAamiloon
‘
And they say, “Our hearts are within coverings from that to which you
invite us, and in our ears is deafness, and between us and you is a
partition, so work; indeed, we are working.” 41:5
                                                           **********************
Wama kana libasharin anyukallimahu Allahu illa wahyan aw min
wara-ihijabin aw yursila rasoolan fayoohiya bi-ithnihima yashao
innahu AAaliyyun hakeem
‘
And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except
by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to
reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and
Wise. 42:51

                                                           **********************

Wa-itha qara/ta alqur-anajaAAalna baynaka wabayna allatheena
layu/minoona bil-akhirati hijabanmastoora
‘
“And when you recite the Qur’an, We put between you and those who
do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.” 17:45

                                                          **********************

Fattakhathat min doonihim hijabanfaarsalna ilayha roohanafatamaththala
laha basharan sawiyya
‘
“And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our
Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.”
19:17

None of these ‘hijab‘ words are used in the Quran in reference to what the
traditional Muslims call today ‘hijab‘ as a dress code for the Muslim woman

God knows that generations after Muhammed’s death the Muslims will use
the word ‘hijab‘ to invent a dress code that He never authorised. God used
the word ‘hijab‘ ahead of them just as He used the word ‘hadith‘ ahead of
them (45:6).

“These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad)
with truth. Then in what fact, after Allah and His portents, will they
believe?” 45:6

The word ‘hijab‘ in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim women’s
dress code. Historical Background: While many Muslims call ‘hijab‘ an
Islamic dress code, they completely ignore the fact that, ‘hijab‘ as a dress
code has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with the Quran.
In reality ‘hijab‘ is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith
books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through alleged
hadith and sunna.
Any student of the Jewish traditions or religious books will see that head
cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious
leaders.Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time
and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities.
This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed
by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed
down to the Jewish culture.
Some Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while
the nuns cover their heads all the time. This religious practise of covering
the head was established from traditions thousands of years before the
Muslim scholars claimed the ‘hijab‘ as a Muslim dress code.
The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used
to wear ‘hijab‘ not because of Islam, but because of tradition.
In Saudi Arabia, up to this minute most of the men cover their heads,
not because of Islam but because of tradition. North Africa is known for
its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim men wearing ‘hijab‘ instead of
women.
Here the tradition has the ‘hijab‘ in reverse. If wearing ‘hijab‘ is the sign of
the pious and righteous Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been
the first woman to be counted. In brief, ‘hijab‘ is a traditional dress and has
nothing to do with Islam or religion.
!
In certain areas of the world, men are the ones who wear the ‘hijab‘ while
in others the women do. Mixing religion with tradition is a form of
idol-worship since it implies setting up other sources of religious laws
besides the Quran.
The word ‘khimar’ in the Quran: The word ‘khimar‘ can be found in the
Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim
women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women
can be found in 24:31.

link :  http://wiki-islam.org/2012/08/18 ... women-in-the-quran/

mashimaru83

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 06:28 PM
well my copy and paste base on Islam source plus born muslims who are scholar in islamic study  an ...

I don't mind you to do the copy-paste. The problem here is you didn't address the brought up issue through a proper reasoning at all. Your reasoning so far is just 'only take whatever fit your view'.

1) They are many muslims scholars talk about head covering for women, but for obvious reasons you didn't consider their's view at all. I wonder why?
2) You have yet to address the question posted by bro sam1528:

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

Truth.8

mashimaru83 posted on 16-4-2014 06:41 PM
I don't mind you to do the copy-paste. The problem here is you didn't address the brought up issue ...

u want to know the khimar issue. did not i given lot copy and paste?
Can we find the word ‘hijab‘ in the Quran?
The word ‘hijab‘ appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as ‘hijab‘ and
two times as ‘hijaban‘, these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 &
19:17.

Arabic text used :

ihijabin – Patition

hijabun – Partition

Wabaynahuma hijabunwaAAala al-aAArafi rijalun yaAArifoonakullan
biseemahum wanadaw as-habaaljannati an salamun AAalaykum lam
yadkhuloohawahum yatmaAAoon

“And between them will be a partition, and on [its] elevations are men
who recognize all by their mark. And they call out to the companions of
Paradise, “Peace be upon you.” They have not [yet] entered it, but they
long intensely.” 7:46

                                                           ***********************

“O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except
when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But
when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse
without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior]
was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah
is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask
them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their
hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the
Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that
would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.“ 33:53

                                                           ***********************

Faqala innee ahbabtu hubbaalkhayri AAan thikri rabbee hatta
tawaratbilhijab

And he said, “Indeed, I gave preference to the love of good [things] over
the remembrance of my Lord until the sun disappeared into the curtain
[of darkness].” 38:32

                                                           **********************

Waqaloo quloobuna fee akinnatinmimma tadAAoona ilayhi wafee
athaninawaqrun wamin baynina wabaynika hijabun faAAmalinnana
AAamiloon
‘
And they say, “Our hearts are within coverings from that to which you
invite us, and in our ears is deafness, and between us and you is a
partition, so work; indeed, we are working.” 41:5
                                                           **********************
Wama kana libasharin anyukallimahu Allahu illa wahyan aw min
wara-ihijabin aw yursila rasoolan fayoohiya bi-ithnihima yashao
innahu AAaliyyun hakeem
‘
And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except
by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to
reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and
Wise. 42:51

                                                           **********************

Wa-itha qara/ta alqur-anajaAAalna baynaka wabayna allatheena
layu/minoona bil-akhirati hijabanmastoora
‘
“And when you recite the Qur’an, We put between you and those who
do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.” 17:45

                                                          **********************

Fattakhathat min doonihim hijabanfaarsalna ilayha roohanafatamaththala
laha basharan sawiyya
‘
“And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our
Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.”
19:17

None of these ‘hijab‘ words are used in the Quran in reference to what the
traditional Muslims call today ‘hijab‘ as a dress code for the Muslim woman

God knows that generations after Muhammed’s death the Muslims will use
the word ‘hijab‘ to invent a dress code that He never authorised. God used
the word ‘hijab‘ ahead of them just as He used the word ‘hadith‘ ahead of
them (45:6).

“These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad)
with truth. Then in what fact, after Allah and His portents, will they
believe?” 45:6

The word ‘hijab‘ in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim women’s
dress code. Historical Background: While many Muslims call ‘hijab‘ an
Islamic dress code, they completely ignore the fact that, ‘hijab‘ as a dress
code has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with the Quran.
In reality ‘hijab‘ is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith
books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through alleged
hadith and sunna.
Any student of the Jewish traditions or religious books will see that head
cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious
leaders.Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time
and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities.
This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed
by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed
down to the Jewish culture.
Some Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while
the nuns cover their heads all the time. This religious practise of covering
the head was established from traditions thousands of years before the
Muslim scholars claimed the ‘hijab‘ as a Muslim dress code.
The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used
to wear ‘hijab‘ not because of Islam, but because of tradition.
In Saudi Arabia, up to this minute most of the men cover their heads,
not because of Islam but because of tradition. North Africa is known for
its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim men wearing ‘hijab‘ instead of
women.
Here the tradition has the ‘hijab‘ in reverse. If wearing ‘hijab‘ is the sign of
the pious and righteous Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been
the first woman to be counted. In brief, ‘hijab‘ is a traditional dress and has
nothing to do with Islam or religion.
!
In certain areas of the world, men are the ones who wear the ‘hijab‘ while
in others the women do. Mixing religion with tradition is a form of
idol-worship since it implies setting up other sources of religious laws
besides the Quran.
The word ‘khimar’ in the Quran: The word ‘khimar‘ can be found in the
Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim
women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women
can be found in 24:31.


24:31 The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a
khimar such as a curtain, a dress, a table cloth that covers the top of a table
is a khimar, a blanket can be called a khimar and so on. The word khamr,
which is used in the Quran for intoxicants, has the same root as khimar.
Both words mean that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body,
a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind.Traditional translators, obviously influenced by Hadith and culture, claim
that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that veil or hijab, and thus
mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their
hair!
This fact that the word khimar can mean any cover is a matter that can be
verified by consulting any Arabic dictionary.

read more : http://wiki-islam.org/2012/08/18 ... women-in-the-quran/

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 04:37 PM
for u everything is laymen...sometime it make wonder whether God cursed you ?

Question: Does th ...

By the way we muslims are the people blessed by God according to the bible. In Genesis12:3 , God bless the people who bless Abraham. We muslims beseech Allah to bless Prophet Abraham(as) in our prayers 5x a day. Gen12:3

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

So how?

Until you show me a scholar and an authoritative source(s) for your argument , you have no ground to stand on. You have been like a headless chicken copy pasting anything and everything but none comes from any authoritative source.

Why are you changing the argument to veil? The requirement for veil is in the bible. The issue now is that you argue that there is no need and no mention in the Quran for 'head covering'. You have been proven wrong and how you are running left and right copy pasting articles which you did not read much less understand in order to argue your point. Not very intelligent , are you?

My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

Come on , have a bit of backbone and address the issue instead of going off tangent.

Truth.8

sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 07:29 PM
My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

My challenge to you : Can you provide the  Arabic words 'shaar' (hair) or 'raas' (head) in 24:31?  

'hijab' is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through the hadith. Any student of Jewish traditions  would know that the head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

So, the jewish practised such is a traditions. is not part of the Bibical teachings.  

ibnur

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 06:37 PM
read the topic from begining and you agreed with me.... why on earth want wome covering all over?? ...

wiki link is a weak link.  it can be written by anybody.  the arguments in it is coming from anti hadith arguments.  not worth for me to argue base on those arguments.

sam1528

Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 08:50 PM
My challenge to you : Can you provide the  Arabic words 'shaar' (hair) or 'raas' (head) in 24:31?  

'hijab' is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through the hadith. Any student of Jewish traditions  would know that the head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

So, the jewish practised such is a traditions. is not part of the Bibical teachings.  

What a simple challenge :
- hair : شعر
- head : رئيس

What is the issue? You now want to argue that there is no رئيس in the verse? This is where your ignorance came to the fore again. Arabic words are built from tri lateral roots. Let me give you an example
- headache : صداع   

Where is the  رئيس  in headache? You will never be able to answer because you in your ignorance think that there has got to be the word 'head' (رئيس ) in headache.

I thought I have already explained (my post #46) about tri lateral roots for the construction of arabic words. Why are you trying your best to display your lack of intelligence?

My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

Are you not embarrassed that you continuously display your ignorance to everyone? Really thick skinned person you are. Tak tau malu. Why argue on issues that that you have no knowledge of?

Like I stated before. We muslims believe that the Israelites were once chosen by Allah. Allah's laws have already been implemented. What is the issue when such laws persist in Islam. Its a continuation of the divine message. We muslims don't have any problem with such.

Veil and headcovering is in the Old Testament as already pointed out. You must blind or simply ignored it. It is also agreed by Prof Geza Vermes a reknown academic in the field of Jesus research that head cover is mentioned in 1cor11.

Ha ha , see the difference. We muslims provide the reference to scholars and authoritative sources. You , a christian , can only provide reference from lay people like Rashad Khalifa lah , wiki islam lah. In short you are not an intelligent nor a critical person.