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2 juta murtad setiap tahun

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Post time 10-1-2013 12:06 AM | Show all posts |Read mode



Ya Allah..tetapkanlah iman kami.......................
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Post time 10-1-2013 01:10 AM | Show all posts
salaam

semoga selalu dalam bimbingan dan Petunjuk, amin.

ada baiknya, sebuah berita di-verifikasi, sehingga jelas ... manakala terdapat keraguan yg mungkin mengandung fitnah

silahkan merujuk FIRMADANI

Tampaknya campaign type video KONY 2012 adalah sebuah cara baru dalam mengumpulkan uang dari seluruh dunia. Sepertinya ini kemudian di adopsi oleh proyek Save Maryam yang mengeksploitasi Indonesia dengan menciptakan video yang bombastis dan memakai fakta-fakta dan angka-angka yang dimanipulasi dengan tujuan untuk memenuhi ambisi mereka mendapatkan sumbangan sebesar USD 2 Juta.

Setelah melihat video yang berisi ketidak-jujuran tersebut rasanya saya pengen marah sekali, apalagi melihat begitu banyak yang ikut-ikutan membantu menyebarkannya, mereka (mungkin) menganggap hal itu menjadi bagian dari dakwahnya tanpa mempertimbangkan adanya bahaya yang jauh lebih besar dari sikapnya itu. Menyebarkan tanpa terlebih dahulu mengevaluasinya. Sebuah etika yang buruk dalam dunia maya. Justru saya salut dengan sikap ustadz Salim A. Fillah yang telah meng-koordinasikan timnya untuk kroscek langsung ke London, tempat kantor lembaga ini berada.

Apa saja ketidak-jujuran yang disampaikan dalam video tersebut?
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Post time 10-1-2013 01:11 AM | Show all posts
Bukti Pertama

Guna memperjelas video campaign-nya, pada tanggal 25 Juli 2012 MMW mengeluarkan press release yang memuat data statistik tentang jumlah rata-rata Muslim Indonesia per tahun yang pindah agama masuk Kristen, yakni 2.014.837 orang, berdasarkan himpunan data dari tahun 2000 sampai 2009. MMW memakai data yang klaimnya berasal dari 4 sumber: World Harvest, Secretbelievers, International Crisis Group (ICG), dan Departemen Agama RI.

Tapi saya ragu terhadap data statistik yang diajukan Save Maryam. Angka 2.014.837 adalah angka yang fantastis! Secara angka sungguh tidak wajar, jauh dari data resmi Sensus Penduduk yang dikeluarkan oleh BPS (Biro Pusat Statistik), dengan fakta berikut ini:


Rata-rata pertumbuhan setiap tahunnya (2000-2010):
Total = (237.641.326 – 201.241.999) / 10 = 3.639.933
Islam = (207.176.162 – 177.528.772) / 10 =  2.964.739
Protestan = (16.528.513 – 11.820.075) / 10 =  470.844
Katolik = (6.907.873 – 6.134.902) / 10 =  77.297
Kristen (Protestan + Katolik) = (470.844 + 77.297) =  548.141

Dari tahun 2000 ke 2010, total populasi Indonesia mengalami peningkatan sebesar 3.639.933 per tahun, dimana dalam periode tersebut:

Populasi umat Islam meningkat = 2.964.739 per tahun.
Populasi umat Kristen meningkat = 548,141 per tahun.
Jika total pemeluk agama Kristen meningkat 548,141 per tahun, bagaimana mungkin ada 2 Juta umat Islam murtad setiap tahunnya? Dan dari 548,141 itu, persentase terbesar tentu saja berasal dari pertambahan alamiah (angka kelahiran). Jadi, pertambahan tahunan yang berasal dari perpindahan dari agama lain bahkan lebih kecil lagi.

Jadi, klaim proyek Save Maryam bahwa 2 juta Muslim Indonesia pindah agama, masuk Kristen, per tahun, sesungguhnya cuma sebuah dusta. Jika mereka berani membesar-besarkan fakta-fakta yang eksak, bagaimana saya dapat percaya bahwa mereka tidak membesar-besarkan fakta-fakta lainnya?

Angka 2 juta yang bombastis itu saya kuatirkan bisa menyulut bibit-bibit xenophobic, yakni kebencian antar warga yang berlebihan. Kebencian yang seharusnya tidak perlu terjadi, karena kenyataannya tidaklah se-fantastis itu angkanya. Yang pada akhirnya kita akan terjebak pada upaya yang kontraprodukif dalam upaya membangun negeri ini. Semangat membangun negeri disusupi dengan semangat saling curiga tingkat tinggi, karena terjadi gap atau benturan yang keras dengan saudara-saudara yang beraliran berbeda. Konflik horisontal semakin meluas.
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Post time 10-1-2013 01:12 AM | Show all posts
Bukti Kedua

Mereka meng-klaim di dalam video ini bahwa data yang mereka peroleh bersumber dari International Crisis Group 2012. Faktanya bila Anda pause video tersebut pada menit ke 00:36, Anda akan melihat bagaimana surat itu cuma dibuat-buat. Pada kepala surat tertulis “International Crisis Group”, tetapi jika Anda melihat tanggal di sebelah kiri di bawah tulisan “Public Briefing”, tertulis: “Jakarta/Brussels, 24 November 2012”. Lha saya menulis jurnal ini saja masih di bulan Juli 2012. So, how a letter could be produced for a meeting that is taking place in the future (November 2012)?

Bukti Ketiga

Dalam press release MMW itu ditulis bahwa gerakan mereka sudah didahului riset yang intensif dan ekstensif dengan melibatkan banyak pihak di Indonesia, yakni alim ulama, profesor muslim, wartawan, aktivis muslim, anggota komite masjid, usahawan, dan ummah. Dikatakan bahwa mereka semua melihat bahwa memang sedang terjadi pemurtadan umat Muslim di Indonesia dalam jumlah besar. Mereka juga menyatakan bahwa gerakan mereka untuk mencegah Kristenisasi ini dijalankan dengan kerja sama dengan organisasi Muhammadiyah. Benarkah?

Pada kenyataannya tidak ada official information dari pengurus besar Muhammadiyah di Indonesia seputar kerjasamanya dengan MMW untuk proyek Save Maryam ini. Bahkan Ketua Umum PP Muhammadiyah DIn Syamsudin ketika dikonfirmasi via twitter, beliau menjawab tidak tahu menahu soal ini.

Press release MMW itu ditutup dengan kutipan teks dari Surat Al-Anfal ayat 46, yang mereka tafsirkan: “Jangan berdebat di antaramu sendiri, yang mengakibatkan strategimu gagal dan kekuatanmu menyusut.” Ya, tampaknya MMW menghendaki proyek “Save Maryam” dijalankan tanpa kompromi, tanpa dialog, tanpa debat, dan umat Muslim di seluruh dunia (bukan hanya Indonesia) diminta untuk ikut saja, tanpa terpecah-belah. Sehingga pengumpulan dana berjalan lancar.

Anda-pun juga sepantasnya curiga terhadap kegiatannya yang kelihatannya baik namun dibungkus dengan kebohongan-kebohongan.

Pemurtadan memang nyata terjadi dimana-mana, bukan hanya di Indonesia, di negara lain juga terjadi. Namun kenyataannya angkanya kecil. Begitu juga sebaliknya yang berpindah agama dari Kristen ke Islam, atau ke agama lain. Itu juga terjadi. Saya baca ada media Kristen yang juga mengeluhkan umatnya yang meng-konvert agamanya ke agama lain. Di masjid raya di tempat saya tinggal di setiap malam minggunya selalu saja ada prosesi beberapa Maria yang menjadi Maryam. Jadi, soal perpindahan agama bukan masalah umat Islam saja. Namun demikian, kami umat Islam tetap menganggap bahwa pemurtadan adalah masalah yang serius.

Saya sendiri bertanya, mengapa lembaga asing seperti MMW itu mau ikut campur mengurusi kehidupan umat Muslim Indonesia. Tentu siapapun boleh peduli pada umat Muslim Indonesia, sama seperti Barat juga boleh peduli pada umat Kristen di Indonesia. Tapi, yang saya lihat sebagai persoalannya adalah proyek Save Maryam bisa dikatakan terlalu jauh mencampuri kehidupan umat Muslim Indonesia. Dengan dana sebesar ini, para pelaksana proyek Save Maryam bisa leluasa melakukan apa saja di Indonesia, atau malah tidak melakukan hal apapun setelah mengantongi dana besar itu, seperti kasus Kony 2012 yang saya singgung di atas.
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Post time 10-1-2013 01:35 AM | Show all posts
project Malaysia 2.0

coming soon
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Post time 10-1-2013 08:46 AM | Show all posts
Data saudara ISLAM baru ada tak?

Hmmmmm
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Post time 10-1-2013 11:10 AM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 10-1-2013 01:12 AM
Bukti Kedua

Mereka meng-klaim di dalam video ini bahwa data yang mereka peroleh bersumber dari In ...


i have no comment about that though because the language  used in this article is hard for me to understand.

secondly , apakah saudara masih terkejut ?

saya tak terkejut sebab actually dasar negara seperti indonesia - lihat saja pada the spirit of Pancasila dan slogan

baneka inggal eka

kan?

u all aim for assimilation

u all have been under that cruel Dutch regime for well at least 4 centuries ? 1600 and beyond , right?

so in the mother  country of yours your dasar negara disctated that way u go for assimilation

u homogenised semua termasuk SISTEM NILAI

so  i  haev no comment

in malaysia under dasar 1 Malaysia  launched by our PM - it is not assimilation or sama rata , nor it is assimilation that tend to homogenised every single ethic entity  , it is merely a concept for everyone to accept diversity unconditionally...

sebab tu ...u know...not now but ...hal hal kahwin pasangan muslim - non muslim tak popular walaupun dah ada bibit bibit l tu ...
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Post time 10-1-2013 12:54 PM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 10-1-2013 01:12 AM
Bukti Kedua

Mereka meng-klaim di dalam video ini bahwa data yang mereka peroleh bersumber dari In ...

Alhamdullillah...


Saya setuju & salut pandangan bijaksana Tuan Diony!  

Saya lihat "benang" ni malam tadi...& saya rasa sangsi sangat!.. "klik" ke Utube & Alhamdullillah didlm comment ada yg memberitahu supaya berhati hati sebab ada projrk sebegini merupakan 'DAKYAH KRISTIAN"!!!  


Saya sendiri terasa begitu!

Walaupun ianya sesakan memberi amaran kepada umat islam supaya menjaga diri drp dakyah kristian...tetapi....terasa seperti ada mesej tersembunyi yg mempromote kristian!


Sebagai contoh...secara fitrah...bila dikatakan satu perbuatan tu...diakui dilakukan oleh "ramai"...ramai lagi yg akan suka atau berani join melakukannya!

Spt vedio ini...bila dia klaim 2 juta mulim murtad kpd kristian...IANYA AMAT MENGGALAKKAN ORANG UTK JOIN MURTAD!

Alhamdullillah!...syukur saya kerana Tuan Diony & saya sependapat!
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Post time 11-1-2013 02:42 AM | Show all posts
murtad.... istilah berraaattt !!! ....
ada 73 golongan....
mudah bagi Allah untuk menjadikannya satu..

tetapi Allah menduga dengan memberi
manusia itu akal dan fikiran ...
begitupun manusia tetap berpaling dan
berprasangka...

berprasangka diri itu benar ..
pada hal benar-benar telah sesat pada
pandangan Allah ..

(my seposen)
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Post time 13-1-2013 09:47 PM | Show all posts
mbhcsf posted on 10-1-2013 11:10 AM
i have no comment about that though because the language  used in this article is hard for me to ...

assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

may Allah protects us from fitna and gives us strong imaan, amin.

dear sister, i just want to clear the sight ... that i only deliver fair and reasonable response to all information delivered within this forum, or any place i go.

to the Indonesian, we have millions of brothers and sisters, that cry the same calling to Allah, they r all brethren in imaan, that i strongly believe we have responsibilities to care and protect them as one body of Muslim.

as this 2 millions figure ... this is too exagerating, that from the UN, the annual population increase is just 1.0% while CIA calculates 1.03% increase, (this would be around 2 mio) should all population increase means christian-population increase? ... brother Firmadani had already exposed the blunder of those numbers.

2 millions person per annum, is a great number ... we can fill a whole city with these people ... from government census, in year 2000 CE, there are 17.9 mio Christians (Catholic, Protestants, etc) ... so, if the figure is true, in year 2010, we must find more than (17.9 + 10x2 + [christian's babies born - death] between 2000-2010 ) ... but the 2010's census only counts 23.4 mio Christians (Catholic, Protestants, etc) which means only 0.55 mio increase per annum ... contrasted with Muslim number, reaching 5.1 mio increase per annum! ... by all means, Muslim's population is increasing and expanding annually! Badan Pusat Statistik

and about proselytizing issue ... "kristenisasi" "murtad" etc, r sensitive issues which may ignite social conflics, so if there are exist 2 millions murtadin, there must be horrible consequences in indonesian politics-demography-security ... yet, in reality, there is almost nothing related to this ? ? ?

to figure out indonesian religious-demography, i quote excerpt from outside source; pluralism.org
Other government ordinances relating to religion include regulations on building houses of worship, guidelines for receiving foreign religious aid, and a ban on proselytizing. The Child Protection Act of 2002 makes it a crime to try to convert minors to another religion through "tricks" or "lies"; this was recently used to convict three Christian women for trying to convert Muslim children. In addition, Indonesia's criminal code makes spreading hatred, heresy, and blasphemy a crime; this has been used frequently against minority Muslim sects. In 2003 an education law was passed requiring elementary and secondary schools to provide children with religious instruction in their own faith; again students must pick from the officially recognized religions of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism (this law was passed prior to the government’s recognition of Confucianism; additional reports warn of lack of classes in minority religions in general).

Although Indonesia is not an Islamic state, the question of implementing shari`ah (Islamic law) is still an area of contestation. Some Islamic groups argue for more compliance between official law and shari`ah, even advocating for Indonesia to become a completely Islamic state. However, Muslim proponents of pluralism and liberal Islam, as well as members of other religions, want to protect freedom of religion and the secular state. For example, a pending draft of an anti-pornography bill led to fierce debates (both for and against). Furthermore, many individual regencies and municipalities have enacted shari`ah based regulations at the local level. In 2003, the government formally established shari`ah courts in the region of Aceh. Since then Aceh has had a number of cases involving shari`ah and attempts to increase education about and compliance with shari`ah. Throughout Indonesia shari`ah is brought to bear on numerous subjects, ranging from laws prohibiting prostitution, gambling, and the selling of alcohol, to enforcing proper modest dress, to divorce codes.
so, the reality [in Indonesia] gives no hint to the alleged figure of 2 millions r leaving Islam ... fortunatelly

and about "Bhineka Tunggal Ika" ... this has no connection of whatsoever with making any mixture of beliefs in Indonesia ? ? ? is there even any "Government-Supported" beliefs-mixture ? ? ?

and FYI, the media in Indonesia is liberal, and nothing can hide from it , not even the president, even the military, even the house, all be subjects to media and the law and the people tend to protect its freedom ... so, if 2 millions people r leaving one religion to another, this must be a great news ... but there is no such news ...

as conclussion; i think we have to aware and retain consciousness on every information we find, we have to consider all possibilities and fairly judge with keen awareness; be it on Islam or anything ... perchance we get ourself slipped into dubious assumtions, which may lead to false understanding, even fatal actions ... or even lead others to horrible fitna; may Allah protects us from such mistakes, amin.

barakallahu fiikum.

اللَّهُ وَلِيُّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا يُخْرِجُهُمْ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ

QS Al Baqarah 2;257 Allah, Pelindung orang-orang yang beriman; Dia mengeluarkan mereka dari kegelapan kepada cahaya ...

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bineka tunggal ika is a form 'assimilation' that sacrifices diversity of culture ...so there goes religion , being made 'homogenise' well...  Post time 13-1-2013 10:33 PM
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Post time 13-1-2013 10:10 PM | Show all posts
burungantu posted on 10-1-2013 12:54 PM
Alhamdullillah...

salaam

semoga selalu dalam berkah dan lindungan, amin.

terimakasih atas support Tuan kepada saya ... tak pelak, ada rencana tertentu di balik issue ini dan sy merasa curiga, mengapa perkara sebesar ini tidak memiliki perwakilan resmi di Indonesia, namun hanya membakar "opini" di internet ? ? ?

terlepas dari [jika pun ada] niat baik dari fihak2 yg terkait, sy pikir pembelokan informasi semacam ini hanya membawa mudharat saja bagi ummat, apalagi bagi stabilitas bermasyarakat.

namun, sy yakin sahabat2 di Indonesia akan senantiasa menjaga ummat dari rongrongan kaum kafir dan sy yakin mereka akan berusaha sekuat tenaga untuk menegakkan Islam, insyllh, amin.



barakallahu fiikum.
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Post time 13-1-2013 10:11 PM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 13-1-2013 09:47 PM
assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

may Allah protects us from fitna and gives us s ...

so tell me

how many couples are  the likes of

Jamil Mirdad And Lydia Kandou?

hmm?
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Post time 13-1-2013 10:22 PM | Show all posts
mbhcsf posted on 13-1-2013 10:11 PM
so tell me

how many couples are  the likes of

ha ha ha ! ...

i find a good list of some muallaf (mainly from Christianity)

Di bawah ini beberapa nama artis Indonesia yg menjadi muallaf, diantaranya:
• Rebecca
• Dewi Sandra
• Titi DJ
• Angelina Sondakh
• Linda Rahman
• Jessica Iskandar
• Tamara Blezinsky (bintang film, sinetron)
• Tere (penyanyi)
• Monica Oemardi (bintang film, sinetron)
• Dian Sastrowardoyo (bintang film, sinetron)
• Steve Emanuel (bintang film, sinetron)
• El Manik (Aktor)
• Chrisye (Penyanyi)
• W.S Rendra (Penyair, Si Burung Merak)
• Iga Mawarni (Penyanyi)
• Chica Koeswoyo (Bintang cilik, Keluarga Koes Ploes)
• Clara Shinta (Aktris)
• Markus Horison (Pemain Bola)
• Sandrina Malakiano (Pembawa Berita)
• Cindy Claudia (Penyanyi,artis sinetron)
• Davina Veronica H. (Topmodel)
• Tia AFI (Penyanyi,AFI)
• Shelomita (Penyanyi)
• Cahyono (Pelawak)
• Valentino (Bintang Iklan, Presenter)
• Paquita Wijaya (Sinematrografer, Penyanyi)
• Ira Wibowo (Aktris)
• Miranda Risang (Artis)
• Ray Sehatapi (Bintang film)
• Hughes (Host)
• Lidya Pratiwi
• Max Don (Suami Imaniar)
• Angel Elga (Penyanyi Dangdut)
• Willy Dozan (Bintang Film)
• Natalie Sarah (Aktris Sinetron)
• Verawati Fajirn (Atlet Bulutangkis)
• Lulu Tobing (Artis)
• Ki Manteb Sudarsono (Dalang)
• Wahyu Suparno Putro
• Rica dan Doris Callebout
• Marsha Timothy
• Jono 'Gugun Blues Shelter'

and about Jamal Mirdad, this post-mo, secular rebel, is still a Muslim (by his i.d. card ) i heard daughters go with their mother (Christianity, but 1 girl is becoming a Muslimah) and all boys with their "ayah"

this joke is impurity that should be neglected ....
Last edited by dionysusxxyyzz on 13-1-2013 10:30 PM

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Post time 13-1-2013 10:30 PM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 13-1-2013 10:22 PM
ha ha ha ! ...

i find a good list of some muallaf (mainly from Christianity)

then your majlis ugama islam  - muslim / islamic council should do something  about it.

i mean you all have the 2nd largest muslim by numbers...so u know that is the quantity...then politely put , with such amount of muslims , the human capital should also speak volumes, too , by  right ?
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Post time 13-1-2013 10:31 PM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 13-1-2013 10:22 PM
ha ha ha ! ...

i find a good list of some muallaf (mainly from Christianity)

the 'problem ' is ... the jamil mirdad  - lydia kandou - the likes  are no  longer an issue in your country ...

right ?

so u know...
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Post time 13-1-2013 10:41 PM | Show all posts
mbhcsf posted on 13-1-2013 10:30 PM
then your majlis ugama islam  - muslim / islamic council should do something  about it.

i mean  ...

i think Indonesian Muslim population is the biggest in the world



well, the above list shows that beside some neglected confussions of liberalism (like mirdad case )  there r even more Christians who become Muslim (artists in particular) in Indonesia.

and about the mirdad couple ... this happened in the 70's-80's ... before establishment of the law [of marriage] ... and the atmosphere was rather secular back then.

i suppose there is no such marriage nowadays ... i hope

well, there r always be doubtful people arround ... but i think today is not too doubtful for Islam and Muslim by demographic, in Indonesia.


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Post time 13-1-2013 11:23 PM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 13-1-2013 10:10 PM
salaam

semoga selalu dalam berkah dan lindungan, amin.

Assallamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh..

Alhamdullillah..

KALAU BENAR  USD 2 000 000 cukup untuk selamatkan rakyat Islam Indonesia daripada terus murtad 2 000 000 orang setahun...Sepatutnya golongan "pendakwah...Mercy? " tersebut boleh terus sja bentangkan kepada Pak SBY...

Jumlah USD 2 M bukanlah jumlah yg besar bagi Negara Indonesia...kalau betul jumlah tu boleh menyelamatkan umat Islam Indonesia....

Just imagine how big the benefit  will be to Pak SBY in the next elec'n?Takkan Pak SBY tak mau...

Malangnya...kenapa meminta sedekah tetapi mengenepikan kerajaan Pak SBY....

lainlah kalau Pak SBY anti Islam....

fishy....


p/s : Kerajaan Terengganu buat Taman Tamaddun Islam yg ada masjid kritel tu pun makan belaja RM 250 juta......maknanya USD 82 000 000.00   utk buat projek yg entah apa apa......apa ada dengan USD 2 juta.......cipuuuut je tu....    Last edited by burungantu on 14-1-2013 12:28 AM

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Post time 14-1-2013 08:49 AM | Show all posts
dionysusxxyyzz posted on 13-1-2013 10:41 PM
i think Indonesian Muslim population is the biggest in the world


are they  the so called practising moslems?

i guess, if your country wants to uplift the model of good governance concerning islamic affairs management/ issues , your country should be more in the 'thinking mode' of  how to curb illiteracy, poverty of knowledge - islamic and etc , jahiliyyah etc , sebba yg datang di malaysia ni bukan saya nak kata , islam pada nama tapi pada practise aiyoooo masih pakai shorts bila deal dgn org di kaunter   -> you know? waktu haji pun ...ada juga complaints dari perwatakan jemaah seberang so for me ....the targeted area to deal with 'issues' in your country is  in the education...mantapkan itu bebetul ...

apakah kemiskinan itu faktor utama  dalam kualiti depa mempraktikkan nilai islam ?
yes ? no ?



i dunno ...u know...there are problems in your country especially in implementing good governance in many aspects - the policies, the mentality , etc ...yg depa tahu mainkan isu sensasi - like krisis paten itu ini , krisis remeh temeh , reflecting on the true nature of the grass roots mentality in certain strata within the society

no doubt that in higher instuitions , there are the likes of people who are actually good in terms of their ideas about islam , islamisation of  knowledge but you know...their voice are almost unheard.


but then again to be on the fair side , your  muslim populations mostly are deeply ingrained with  very high powerful will of survival, they can practically live  anywhere, high adaptive skills, they are resourceful, hardworking, creative - teh crafts , the way they make embroidery on pieces of cloths  tu...
but tang sistem nilai , susila  agama , judging from the immigrants aiyooooo ....teruk sikit laaa i must say, sorry yeeee....this is what i observe...macam tak kisah je soal  u know ...i dunno pening tengok.

so ...your country should do something about it ler to be honest.

teh numbers are good , but the quality of human capital must also be at par , having said  this, i do not even think Malaysia is any better due to recent development of liberalism in value system  etc but we try to deal with this with every menas i guess...
however  this is easire since we have a good network in media, islamic development dept ... etc ---> this is where your country is lacking actually right - THE GOVERNANCE  side of things?#

hmm?
yes ?  no ? Last edited by mbhcsf on 14-1-2013 08:58 AM

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Post time 14-1-2013 09:01 AM | Show all posts
someone said to me

Abdul rahman in malaysia could plausibly be a muslim malay =- may be 90 % muslim , whether is he a  practising muslim , well that is a different story
but in indonesia it could be that a gent by the name abdul rahman - is actually a priest but then again , macam in egypt jugaklah  kalau arab , tak semestinya dia islam ,he could be coptic ...anyway ...

so u see... Last edited by mbhcsf on 14-1-2013 08:17 PM

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Post time 14-1-2013 11:22 AM | Show all posts
mbhcsf posted on 14-1-2013 08:49 AM
are they  the so called practising moslems?

i guess, if your country wants to uplift the mode ...

this should be addressed to indonesian ...
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