he he... dah biasa kena.. tapi gua tetap tak pueh hati dengan penyemak forum cam depa ni, suka2 mak bapak derang nak hina agama orang...especially when it got nothing to do with them!!
main isu here is about gaza, but it became a religions debate once they start to associate terrorism with Islam and when they start to be racist.. its the moslem been terrorize in gaza by the jews..not the other way around..
when the berlin walls trumble, they jews built a new wall around palestine land, with a new type of apartheid and then they spread lies to every corner o the earth....claiming they are the victims.
Australia regulary detains asylum seekers trying to enter Australia in International waters. Most of these people are detained indefinately including over 2,000 children. There has been certain instances where some have died due to their own stupidity of trying to set their boat on fire. The ADF doesn't board these boats with paintball guns either, but live ammunition, and if they were to be attacked many people would be killed. I doubt the international community would bat an eyelid.
No one is investigating Australia over this because a country has certain rights in International Waters for ships bound to it's shores.
This debate has been done over and over and over and I'm sick of people such as yourself blatantly ignoring the facts.
If you tried to enter Australia illegally you would be detained. If you tried to attack an ADF member you would be shot and killed. All in international waters. There would be no international investigation. So why demand Israel has one??
he is a jew.. he knows whats he saying coz hes one of them, maybe later you can get a sentence of the word the rabii has said and wanna argue about it? like us , the quran in which we need to read is from starting to the end and must be observed by a guru so we did not make mistake while reading it... . not just pick a verse and translate it like you do...and again you are not moslem nor jew, you would not understand . go back to your religion and dont try to inflame others.. dont just pick up something which are not from your religion and ask other people to debate on it... it make you look stupid!!
and its no point to argue to a non believers you are not even the people of the book...and the jewish name you use Nick_Perelman its a laughing stock, pretend to be one of them ....u dont even eat like they do!! ha haah
(This speech was originally delivered in Durban, South Africa by Rabbi Y D Weiss)
[Translations: En español]
May our words be pleasing to the Creator and cause His Great Name to be sanctified.
Assalaam Aleikhum:
The world stands aghast as the atrocities being committed by the Zionist regime in Gaza, becomes known in ever greater and shocking detail.
Mere words are insufficient to express the pain that all mankind feels at the plight of the Gaza and Palestinian people.
For over one hundred years, they have been subject to a carefully conceived plan, to drive them from their homes and their land.
Throughout their history, the Zionists have resorted to intimidation, war, ethnic cleansing and state—sponsored terrorism to achieve their goals.
This is, has been and continues to be, the criminal agenda of the Zionist movement. But among this movement’s greatest crimes, is that it has claimed to carry out these nefarious actions in the name of holiness, in the name of the Almighty, in the name of Judaism and the Jewish people !!
This is a wicked and monstrous lie !!
It is a desecration of our religion !!
Judaism forbids and rejects Zionism and the existence of the State of “Israel”. We have been expressly commanded by the Almighty that we are forbidden to have our own sovereignty in this heavenly decreed exile, we are also forbidden to rebel against any nation. Torah believing Jews, under the leadership of the most esteemed rabbis of the 20th century have always opposed and fought against Zionism and ultimately the State of “Israel”.
Unfortunately in recent years the Zionists have succeed in seducing and co—opting members of the religious community and some rabbis into support of not allowing the return of the rightful owners, the Palestinian people, to their land, by fear mongering, by appealing to their worst fears, that there is a religious conflict and that the Arabs always have had an ingrained hate for the Jews. Especially, they claim, that because of the many years of the existence of the State of “Israel”, if the Palestinians where to return to their land, they would massacre the Jews, may the Almighty protect us.
Anyone familiar with the ploys and techniques of the Zionist State is aware of this fact.
Before the advent of Zionism, Muslims and Christian, Arabs and Jews, lived peacefully together in the Holy Land, as in all the Muslim lands, — Ask your grandparents! — They remember those peaceful days! And in fact it is here the opportune time to thank all the Muslim countries for their extraordinary friendship, hospitality and safe haven that they have provided to the Jewish people throughout the ages!
The Zionists rely on the Bible, the Torah, for their imaginary right to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian people and to subjugate them. This is a pathetic joke! The Zionists have always been heretics and rejected all the fundamental tenets of our faith, and yet they have the nerve, the arrogance, the audacity, the chutzpa, to pretend to base their behavior on our holy Torah.
We know what our holy writings and our great rabbis have taught us — that we are forbidden to subjugate or oppress anyone or to desecrate the holiness of the Holy Land with paths of violence, ethnic cleansing, discrimination and military power. Our religion teaches justice. It teaches peace. It teaches compassion. In fact, the greatest and ultimate hope and prayer of the Jewish people is, that when the Messiah comes that then “Nation shall no longer lift up sword against nation, and they will make war no more.” All nations will serve God together in peace.
To the governments of the world, it is not through your support of the Zionist regime — the State of “Israel”, that the Jewish people are being helped! On the contrary, this tragic historical mistake has led to the killing of Arabs and Jews alike. The governments of the great powers, by supporting the State of “Israel” are not only harming the Palestinian people but they are also unwittingly contributing to the growth of hostility towards Jews worldwide!
To our Jewish brethren, we beg! Do not be intimidated by ruthless Zionist bullying and violence!! — Proclaim loudly and clearly your outrage, pain and sympathy for the people of Gaza and that those who show contempt for the Torah, the teachings of our rabbis, and disregard the ethical and moral basics of our faith, have no right to speak on behalf of the Jewish People or Judaism!
We must tell the world that self rule, sovereignty and ALL the rights of the Palestinian people, must be restored throughout historic Palestine! This is a requirement of Jewish ethics and values! Jewish justice demands the return of the Palestinian refugees to their homes, towns, villages and cities throughout Palestine! Tell the world, loudly and clearly, that you support Palestinian statehood over the ENTIRE Holy Land —— not despite your Jewish identity, but because of it.
To our Islamic brethren – let us speak up for the people of Gaza and please do not judge the Jewish faith or its people, on the basis of this passing lunacy of Zionism. The Jews have always been your friends and cousins. Do not allow your understandable anger to be directed at those who are innocent of wrongdoing, regardless of whether they reside in Occupied Palestine, Europe, or anywhere around the globe.
Together, people of all nations, may we be worthy, with God’s help, speedily and peacefully, without further suffering and bloodshed of anyone, be it Arab or Jew, to witness the peaceful end of the Zionist occupation over every inch of Palestine.
And may we yet merit to see, in the very near future, the revelation of the One God, over the entire world, with all mankind in His servitude, in joyous brotherhood.
The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell.
read the rest of it
Zionists Do Not Represent Jews
From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points:
■A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments.
■The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very people hood is based exclusively on the Torah.
■The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell.
■This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish people were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this time, the Jews always remained faithful to the country in which they lived.
■The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which have allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed.
■From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic peoples have always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always reigned between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in all the Arab lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst mutual esteem.
■Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil of the Holy Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill the commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. Never, G-d forbid, did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever which, as mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy Land, our fathers lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the land, helping one another, to mutual benefit.
■Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews observed the Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah scholars, who directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal citizens in the host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed for the welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that time a small number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and commandments. Together with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their people. This assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the ideology of Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had abandoned the Torah.
■Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's veteran inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently opposed the movement with all force.
■The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah authority. They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the "establishment of a national home for the Jews in the land of Israel." To our great sorrow, from that point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the Jews and the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the Arab people understood that the Zionists wished to seize ruler ship from them. In addition, the Arab people had suspicions as if the Jewish people wished to seize control of the Temple Mount and other similar sites. Matters worsened as a result.
■The Jewish leadership of that time saw it as proper to clarify before the Arab leaders that the Torah-true Jews had no desire whatsoever for sovereignty, and that our desire was to continue to live in peace with the Arabs, as we had always done. The leader of the G-d-fearing Jewish community at that time, Rabbi Yoseph Chaim Zonnenfeld. of blessed memory, organized a delegation in July of 24' which visited King Hussein and his sons Faisal the King of Iraq and the Amir Abdullah In order to lucidly present to them the position of the G-d-fearing Jewish community. The Jewish delegation clarified unequivocally that Torah Jewry is totally opposed to the Zionist sovereignty over the Holy Land. It Is worth noting that the delegation was received with great honor. They were even assured that all Arab lands were completely open to Jews, however, on the condition that the Jews do not demand political rights. This condition also applied to the Holy Land. One of the members of the Jewish delegation, Professor Yisroel Yaakov De Haan, paid with his life for his participation.
■Torah Jewry protests at every opportunity against the Zionist rule over the Holy Land, and the Zionist rebellion against the neighboring nations. Torah Jewry has condemned the Zionist oppression of the Palestinians, the land's veteran inhabitants who have been driven from their homes and properties. The Zionists' barbaric and violent deeds are absolutely antithetical to the essence of the Jewish people.
■Torah Jewry has never ever recognized the Zionist state. Since the Zionists succeeding in establishing their state, Torah Jewry has continuously announced to the world that the Zionists do not represent the Jewish people, and that the name "Israel" that they use is a forgery. For as has been stated above, it is forbidden to us from the Torah to rebel against the nations, and all sovereignty by us is prohibited. Rather, we await the days when all the world will recognize the sovereignty of the Creator, and the words of the prophet Isaiah will yet be fulfilled: "And they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword against any other, nor will they learn warfare anymore."
■Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews have refrained to this day from taking any funds from the Zionist regime, whether for their educational institutions, synagogues or other benefits. Obviously, they do not participate in the Zionist elections, whether for the "Knesset" or for the municipality. We do not serve in their army, and we even avoid speaking in the Hebrew language that the Zionists Invented. (incidentally, this is not the holy and true Hebrew language in which the Bible is written.) All this is done because Torah Jewry does not recognize the Zionist regime, which Is against the Torah and against humanity.
■Lately, the question has once again arisen concerning the Temple Mount and sovereignty over it. Thus, we wish to state unequivocally: a) In our time, it is a severe Torah prohibition for any Jew to set foot on any part of the Temple Mount area. b) The Jewish people have no claim whatsoever to sovereignty over this holy site, which is under Islamic authority, nor over any other holy site. Rabbi Zonenfeld was once asked, "is it true, that the Rabbi prefers an non-Jewish government over all of the Holy Land"? Rabbi Zonenfeld replied, "if King Hussein would rule over Palestine, the holiness of the Holy Land would not be diminished to even to an Iota degree". We yearningly await G-d's great day, when He will return His Divine Presence to Zion, restoring the holy city to its former holiness and glory as in days of old, to be a light to the peoples and the nations.
■The Zionists have no right of any sovereignty over even one inch of the Holy Land. They do not represent the Jewish people in any way whatsoever. They have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people. Therefore, their words, declarations and actions are not in any way representative of the Jewish people. This is because the Zionists' seizing of power over the Holy Land is antithetical to Jewish law, and also because the Zionists do not behave like Jews at all rather, they desecrate the sanctity of the land.
■We once again clarify that it is our desire to live in peace with our Arab and Palestinian neighbors, as we did before the Zionist revolution, and as Jews all over the world till today live, accepting the yoke of rulership of their host nation, with complete loyalty. Our sole desire is to serve our G-d and to fulfill His commandments with a perfect heart and to delight in the radiance of the sanctity of the Land. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm
There is nothing innovative about this nationality. Before the sixth congress, Max Nordau, one of the leaders and founders of the Zionist movement wrote:
“…If Eretz Yisroel will once again be inhabited by Jews, the Jews will be able to hold onto her with their strength and with their labor (Today the number of inhabitants in Eretz Yisroel amounts to 600,000 people, among them 60,000 Jews, at the same time that some 6 million Jews aspire to return to this land.) Anti-Semitism shall no longer affect them for there they will be able to find rest and work and dedicate themselves to their occupation in peace, like any other nation that lives with confidence on their land. On the contrary the Jews who do not wish to return to Eretz Yisroel can remain in their places, as they wish, and if anti-Semitism shall continue to degrade them in the future as well, we will be forced to endure this situation as well. They could have escaped from it and they didn’t escape – probably they feel surrounded by good things and they tolerate their suffering with indifference, or they are not at all affected by it, or they have some other remedy. Let the situation be whatever it is – there is no need to worry about these people.”
If so, the purpose was already determined in the beginning of Zionism – Israel above all, and that is foremost. And so the people are for Zionism and the state, and not the state and Zionism for the people. If the state is an asset in its own right, then everything is legitimate in the quest to attain the state, because without the state there is no nation. (It’s interesting to note the explanation of Dina Poras, one of the most noteworthy holocaust researchers, for this argument in “Ho’oretz” 4.12.91: “From the moment that the state was made the most important, Jewish lives became secondary, because “the state of Israel is above all”; and again there is a striking similarity to “Deutschland iber ales”.
Once again, we find ourselves reading horrifying headlines regarding the unrest in the Middle East. In one long chain of tragedies and civilian bloodshed, residential neighborhoods have been transformed into war zones, the daily lives of civilians distorted by ever-present shadows of terror and fright.
Our readers have long been familiar with the Torah position; let us re-announce it boldly and clearly:
The Zionist ideology is antithetical to the Torah. Zionism was deviously designed to replace the Torah and its holy, God-given commandments with nationalistic, power-driven ideals that are devoid of holiness, godliness, or spirituality.
God-fearing Jews believe that the ultimate Redemption of the Jewish Nation will come about only through the Hands of God, and that at the time of the Redemption, peace will reign in the entire world. Any other type of forced redemption is but a sinful transgression, condemned by God and His Holy Torah.
What more proof does one need than the fact that for centuries, Jews have lived peacefully in Arabic countries, enjoying the respect and friendship of their neighbors? The tragedy of Zionism changed all of that. The painful truth is that in the eyes of the Zionist government, Jews are merely the cannon-fodder needed for the State of Israel to achieve its agenda.
Obviously, the State of Israel has absolutely no connection with either Jews or Judaism. Furthermore, Torah-true Jews did not participate in the founding of the State, and for decades, we have announced our disapproval and disassociation from the State of Israel at every opportunity.
"The following explanation clarifies this issue beautifully: Would the Jews be held responsible in a conflict between North Korea and South Korea? Obviously not! In the same way, Jews should not be held responsible for the Zionists conflicts with their neighbors. The State of Israel has as much to do with Jews and Judaism as does New Zealand or Zimbabwe," said Rabbi Hersh Lowenthal.
May it be clear to every nation, to every person in the entire world: JEWS ARE NOT ZIONISTS!
The Zionists are neither our representatives nor our spokesmen. They have absolutely no right to speak in the name of world Jewry. It is a terrible mistake to confuse Jews with Zionism, or to blame Jews for Zionist actions. We truly wish to live in peace with every nation in the world. We pray for our Jewish brethren as well as for the non-Jews in the Middle East, that they may be saved from danger and peril.
And most of all, we await that great day when G-d's glory will be revealed in the entire world, and there will be peace for all of humanity. Amen.
nick.. i hope you can diffrentiate what is jew and what is zionist..
even the rabii has claimed that they have no right to claim the land of palestine as theirs..they are exile and forbidden by god to have a nation or state.. its the zionist that has manipulated the jews and make them go against the true teaching of Torah..
this is what a rabii got to say about the zionist :
he is a ...
malberi8 Post at 14-6-2010 19:39
Malberi, you should make up ur mind. Yesterday you said that God orders Jews to occupy Palestine, when I showed you that Koran says the same now u chahanged your mind and say that Jewish religion is against Zionism
Religious Jews like secular Jews have different opinions, but overwhelming majority of them suport Zionism. Also 20% of Israel's citizens are Arabs. If you ask them they will all tell you that they want to live in Israel, not Palestinian state.
my understanding is clear, jews should leave palestine n go back to their origin state poland,german rusia etc..... even the rabii says that they should not come to palestine ... only the zionist jews said that they are told by god to occupied the palestinian land, wonder which god? even their rabii said according to Torah they are forbidden to have a nation or state, they are forbidden to enter temple of mount , yet they disobey, and again they (zionist) changed the scripture as to their like.. again and again !!
but i dont think that you would understand , you are not one of them nor one of us.... you worship idols , or ghost or spirit, just go back to your religion and dont disturb others...
■The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, they are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, they are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection they dwell.
there is no true religion that promotes hate , racism..no religion would ask its people to takes other people land!!
Post Last Edit by Nick_Perelman at 15-6-2010 09:18
my understanding is clear, jews should leave palestine n go back to their origin state poland,german rusia etc..... malberi8 Post at 15-6-2010 02:04
The overwhelming majority of Jews were born here and dont want to go anywhere. Majority Jews intermarried with each other: Russian Jew married German, German Jew married Moroccan, Moroccan married Yemeni... Arab citizens sho live in Israel are also happy to live in Israel. So what do u want from us? May be Spanish people should also return to mountains and give their country to Arabs so you will be happy? Or Singaporeans should go back to China? Americans should go back to England and all humanity should go back to Africa?
even the rabii says that they should not come to palestine ...
He represents 1% of the religious Jews at most.
only the zionist jews said that they are told by god to occupied the palestinian land
This land was never " Palestinian". Land was assinged to Jews both according to Bible and Koran. If you find any Palestinians in Koran i will pay u million dollars. Actually name " Palestinian" was invented 20 years after establishment of modern Israeli state.
The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments.
Genesis 17 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
Koran several times says that this land belongs to Jews and never says it was taken from them. So its nothing but your hallucinations.
Post time 14-6-2010 10:21 AM
Author
Or Singaporeans should go back to China? 
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