Is black, a color?

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:47 AM

.. just out of curiousity , kan ?

why they always said in quatum world the rules of the conventional / law of conventional physics doe snot apply?

why?

any comments on this ?

pasal at quantum level, everything goes against our intuition. conventional (or called newtonian) laws of physics ni yg kita rasa dlm hidup seharian, we can feel the logic of the law, atau it concurs with our intuition and feel of things. but it is actually just a subset of a more general law.

contohnya, at quantum level, semuanya tak smooth, tapi bertangga atau bertongkol. that's the meaning of quantum actually. kalau kita nak bayangkan, smoothness tu macam fluid, mengalir secara continuum, tapi quantum physics pulak kata actually dia mengalir secara seketul2, tapi pasal ketul2 (quanta) tu terlalu kecik, maka secara macroscopic nampak macam continuous la. another way to look at is kalau something tu nak pancarkan radiation, dia akan tunggu energy tu bertambah satu quantum baru dia pancarkan seketul...radiation tu tak keluar secara smoothly continuous.     ..you wouldn't be able to guess this phenomena just by conventional physics.

another thing is the wave-particle duality, pun tak dapat diagak jugak based on conventional physics...... some other principal ideas in quantum physics pun sama jugak la.

but anywaysss..... yg masih memeningkan physicists ialah quantum physics dgn general relativity tak bertemu untuk menjadi satu teori yang padu dan general. quantum is applicable only at subatomic level, relativity pulak at astronomical level.

pssst ...post script : I do not have an LV purse just a black Purse from Mark and Spencer bought in 1999....dah lusuh dah ni ..

(buat-buat tak dengar @ tak paham je...)

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 05:55 AM
http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthr ... ht=%2Bmbhcsf&page=4

Betulkah teori ini by Fie'Z'idane = this thread was cool!!! but i cannot find it anymore plus the factthat depa merge geography and sci ...

rasa macam pernah baca thread ni... around last year kan? lupa plak isi dia

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 06:13 AM


why don't you try the problem - based approach?

ni ada rules lah tapi basically means case studies...?

maybe boleh dicuba, i'll try.... tapi tak semua fields sesuai kaedah ni. yg problematic to me ialah kita expect budak2 ni jadi as genius as newton. kalau problem based approach, from the problem, kita harap dia boleh infer something fundamental. the case study is i drop a durian on the kids heads, and i want them to come up with the theory of gravity. tall order neh?

atau in case of application; bagi dia problem, suruh dia solve...that requires a full background knowledge.... full background knowledge tu nak dapat macamana? problem based jugak ke? dah jadi macam tadi jugak, expect budak jadi genius...

i guess i ni dah keras kot, takleh nak adjust2 dah hehehehee...

saden

[ more Yoda ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6widIfpgIbU&NR=1

hehe enjoy..

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 06:17 AM
rambling pun..mmg pun   [ keh keh kepala dah tak leh process]
anyway yg  i tau penggunaannya ialah dalam imaging modalities lahbebenda macam ni like PET - SCAN etc etc depa guna positron, katanyabila that thing habis kena dapatkan that "thing  luar Malaysia sebabpositron tu half life dia cep[at sangat decay..so i terbayang macammana depa kaut and simpan that positron ...hmm? hurmm?

positron tu ada positron source. source tu continuously emits positron due to radioactive decay. kita pakai ke tak pakai ke utk pet-scan, dia emit jugak... sampailah habis due to half life. so, takleh nak store la, just pakai je...radioactive sources ni yg banyak produce is canada kalau tak silap la...

blastoff

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:09 AM

imagine this... u are surrounded by a lot of snakes. in your hand is a stick. if someone were to advise u to do something, what would be a logical advice? hit the snakes with the stick? or throw away your stick?

You ask the right person , I've learned about animal behaviour dolu-dolu    , so jeng jeng jeng .... kalau di kelilingi oleh ular yang banyak , advice yang paling sound adalah :

- firstly, remain calm and still ,

secondly, alert the snakes about my present by striking the ground slowly with the stick so that they will back away from me , I can even throw away the stick provided that it does not land on the body of any of the snakes la , sebab ular tak akan mencederakan manusia tanpa sebab ( melainkan kalau ia di pijak la ) , because memang tabiat ular in the wild yang tak suka dekat dengan manusia , kalau boleh dia nak hide aje untuk keselamatan dia sebab itu cara defense dia sebenarnya,  so kalau dia tau kehadiran manusia dia akan belah dulu-dulu lagi  ,

thirdly, once the snakes have moved further away then try to back away slowly and carefully .

the worst thing to do is to hit the snakes with the stick , itu cari bala nama nya

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 5-2-2009 11:07 PM ]

blastoff

I baru balik , sehari gak kat luar so agak letih, I will try to comment post lelain tu later lah  

blastoff

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:12 AM

hindsight is indeed 20/20.. u see the logic only after the fact. but before u know the outcome, if something is unknown to u, wouldn't u say it is against logic? and if this is so, wouldn't it be faith instead?

if something is unknown to us , then its only logical for us to just admit that we know nothing about it   and start learning  rather than hastily conclude it to be against all logics

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 12:05 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:18 AM

i think and lemme try...

i think the message is :

the scientist ( of the West ) are trying their best in producing the finest quality of fuzzy  system through out the years. However, the system they have created I guess,  still inadequate if we compared to the flawlessly - coordinated - human being , and the most they could produce is ASIMO -well  in  a way it is still an achievement though. It may not be near perfection as yet but dear sooner or later , with passion, patience and great motivation i think they could reach near perfection. I guess in inventing something out of knowledge ,and as the knowledge itself it's pretty fluid  you know, meaning it keeps on being updated, improvised in which the previously thought theory has been  proven wrong/ or being refuted and more  - hard - and - sound and proven theory / law lah kan? is being accepted. so I would say , in each and every invention, we could see the inidaction that the  newly acquired knowledge being applied . Same goes with computers etc etc..the more we know, more improvement in the products thus indicating how "fluid" the current knowledge could be. Tey are struggling yes, of course as they i.e human is the one who built the robot / system out of  what they currently understood. They need to at least first learn and acquire the knowledge. Allah Is MOST knowledgeable...HE is the OWNER of knowledge, kan?

exactly

we aim for the best , not second best . So of course we must set the limit to flawless and comprehensive level , so that we will work as hard as we can to acquire the highest possible achievement , because we know not for certain the limit of our ability so its only logical for us to not limit ourselves during the process of our struggle .

Allah jadikan kita sesempurna makhluk , Allah sebut dalam Al Quran bahwa tak ada satu pun ciptaannya yang ada crack ( kekurangan ) kat memana pun . Jadi bila kita sebut bahwa manusia ni sempurna , maka memang ya mereka sempurna .

(Surah 75 : verse 38 )
Then he ( mankind) was a clot of blood, so He created (him) then made (him) perfect.


Bukan itu saja , malah jiwa manusia pun Allah ciptanya dengan penuh kesempurnaan

(Surah 91 : verse 7)
And the soul and Him Who made it perfect


Seluruh cakerawala ni pun Allah cipta tak ada yang tidak sempurnanya , semua sempurna belaka  .

[Surah 67: verse 3] Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent God; then look again, can you see any disorder?


Jadi kalau Allah kata kita sempurna maka kenapa apa yang kita buat sering tak sempurna aja ?

Itu kerana yang tak sempurna adalah usaha manusia , sebab itu adalah daya upaya kita sendiri yang Allah bagi kita sendiri control , jadi selaku makhlukNya maka memang lah kita akan memperlihatkan kelemahan dari segi usaha kita  , tapi apa saja kat badan kita yang Allah control secara direct , maka memang sempurna tak terkira la , sebab Allah Tuhan yang tak ada cacat cela dari segi perbuatan , dzat etc .

Apa yang sempurnanya tu pada setiap ciptaan Nya ? Dari segi action and reaction yang Allah letakkan sebagai the law of nature pada segala yang di ciptakan Nya  ! All actions and reactions occur in nature in the most logical sense , if we can't make sense of it then it is our effort to understand it yang lemah sebenarnya !

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 12:44 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:31 AM
hmm?

In physics, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on the phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics.


if an instrument keeps on altering the state of the entity it is measuring

i just wondering what would the effect would be in terms of its validity and reliability?

hasil kajian tu valid, tapi hanya untuk suasana yang terhasil oleh instrument tu aje la , jadi tak boleh di kata bahwa teori yang terhasil tu nantinya sesuai untuk semua suasana , so ruang lingkup validity tu kecik aje la , and reliable untuk ruang lingkup tu aje la .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 10:10 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:44 AM
but then , contih satu tool/ instrument ni , kan....

it could always be reliable as it is measuring what it is suppose to measure lah kan ? irrespective of how much "similar" disturbances in state it has caused but as long as the instrument will only affect one aspect of state alteration, it would then be  considered  ok?
yer ker ni?

kalau dia affect satu energy level but then later dia affect mass secara tak konsisten , then of course the reliability of this instrument would be questionable , right?

disturbance adalah hasil tindakbalas kepada a certain action , kan in nature every action will produce a reaction , kadang-kadang it will not just produce one reaction but many , like a ripple through water , jadi banyak atau tidaknya reactions yang boleh terhasil dari penggunaan instrument tu tidak akan affect reliability intrument tu lah kan sebab memang itu nature nya pun  .

Instrument akan menjadi tak reliable bilamana theory yang terhasil dari penggunaan instrument tu nak di apply to all situations secara umum . Maknanya amat penting untuk di tekankan mengenai di mana limit validity theory tu bila kita memperkatakan mengenai theory itu , bukannya cuma menyebut theory tu secara umum gitu aje .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 11:05 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:47 AM

but anywaysss..... yg masih memeningkan physicists ialah quantum physics dgn general relativity tak bertemu untuk menjadi satu teori yang padu dan general. quantum is applicable only at subatomic level, relativity pulak at astronomical level.

scientists suka sangat nak generalize kan theory mereka , seolah-olah macam nak memperlihatkan bahwa ilmu mereka dah luas ya amat kan sampaikan theory mereka applicable untuk semua keadaan , kalau di limitkan validity theory mereka tu nampak macam - " cuma sikit ini aje yang aku tau pun hasil kajian aku tu, banyak lagi yang aku tak tahu sebenarnya  " - jadinya depa rasa lekeh lah pulak kang kan

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 11:19 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 02:04 AM

maybe boleh dicuba, i'll try.... tapi tak semua fields sesuai kaedah ni. yg problematic to me ialah kita expect budak2 ni jadi as genius as newton. kalau problem based approach, from the problem, kita harap dia boleh infer something fundamental. the case study is i drop a durian on the kids heads, and i want them to come up with the theory of gravity. tall order neh?

atau in case of application; bagi dia problem, suruh dia solve...that requires a full background knowledge.... full background knowledge tu nak dapat macamana? problem based jugak ke? dah jadi macam tadi jugak, expect budak jadi genius...

i guess i ni dah keras kot, takleh nak adjust2 dah hehehehee... ...

Lihat saja teknik Al Quran mendidik manusia berfikir , cara Allah mengajar manusia berfikir mengenai ciptaanNya adalah dengan bagi clue aje   . Kalau kita nak apply dalam teknik mengajar student , then kita jangan terus beri semua info secara detail sekali gus tapi bagi clue sikit-sikit , tengok what kind of conclusion they can come up with dengan setiap clue yang kita bagi tu  , kalau depa silap maka baru kita akan mudah faham kat mana tahap pemahaman mereka yang sebenarnya mengenai perkara tu . Explain kat depa kenapa conclusion depa tu silap. Dengan cara tu depa di latih untuk berfikir . Tak de lah nak menghafal aje dan muntahkan fakta balik tanpa faham macam mana fakta tu terbentuk step by step .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 11:33 AM ]

blastoff

mengenai apa yang berlaku pada nabi Musa, memang logik la Nabi Musa campak tongkat dia tu bila di di kelilingi oleh ular-ular para ahli sihir sebab bertepatan dengan apa yang manusia biasa patut buat pun apabila terserempak dengan ular-ular yang banyak ,

lagi pun once di campak maka tongkat tu menjadi ular besar lalu memakan kesemua ular-ular para ahli sihir tu , itu pun logik gak tu , ular besar la yang boleh lawan ular-ular kecik, dan memang wujud ular besar makan ular kecik di alam semulajadi kita la ni pun   ,

the fittest and the strongest has the overwhelming power to overcome the weak , not by being violent but by being smart  - that's the law in nature so its totally logical la perintah Allah ke atas nabi musa untuk mencampakkan tongkatnya tu apabila dia di kelilingi oleh banyak ular kecik  .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 6-2-2009 12:55 PM ]

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:04 AM

your dad is very VERY clueful! i have my own theory about the nature of dimensions of this physical world. yg tu boleh buat thread lain la kot. but anyhow, if it is still the physical world, ...

thank you sure dia belanja you nasi kandaq ni...kalau dia tahu , i think personally he exerts a great deal of influence on me when i was young ....till now but then as you grow older then you 'll know at at the end of the day they mean well. It is him who has made me  search for this palindromes though....

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 7-2-2009 03:23 PM ]

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:09 AM


contohnya ....

imagine this... u are surrounded by a lot of snakes. in your hand is a stick. if someone were to advise u to do something, what would be a logical advice? hit the sna ... [/quote]
when you are confronting   this kind of reptiles, well..the safest thing to do is to stand still, any flickers of movement of that  human will be interpreted as a threat  by that Mr Snake.But then, this is  Moses we taking about...and this just the stick what about the red sea splitting into two? cayalah kan..

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:12 AM



atau kita yang tak nampak logic nya tu maka kita kata ia bertentangan dengan semua logic  , mana kita tau samada kita dah fully explore semua logic ke tak lagikan , jadi kebolehan pemikir ...

It is the faith of course then comes the logic, how about my saying that they are parallel..

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:16 AM

itu pasal kena jadi engineer instead of scientist ... engineering = the art of approximation ... it is valid; up to a certain extent. it is reliable; up to a certain extent... and learn to li ...

alaaa..cam ner nak jadi engineer physics pun i tak ambil ler masa matriks....so iam stuck at physics 101 jer..
but  then i ma just curious to know ..is there a term like  - precision engineer?


and  why things need to be that way though? why does it have to be  applicable up to a certain point but not beyond? why there has to be a limit?

would these "phenomenon" serve to obey certain law of i dunno say equilibrium of some form of enrgy conserving "mechanism"?

because to me there must be a reason it . However, certain thing is rather stright forward jugaklah , kan like explaining why the elasticity of a spring is actually exist within a certain range jer kan ? because if the beban ( what you call it in english ? i lupa lah ) is getting  heavier , the spring will be stretched a lot more and it will come to the point where well, it becomes lax...and it has something to do with atoms in that spring being pulled apart from one another too...
itu the given explanation and it is logical ..yg lain tu cam ner ?

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:28 AM

i think i understand what u are saying, but i'm not too sure.

then u picked an unfortunate example of measurement which affect both energy and mass. at the subatomic level, energy and mass d ...

lama tak dengaq org cakap "bak kata....." ..

yep got me lright..clever  boy.

mbhcsf

Originally posted by saden at 5-2-2009 01:47 AM

pasal at quantum level, everything goes against our intuition. conventional (or called newtonian) laws of physics ni yg kita rasa dlm hidup seharian, we can feel the logic of the law, atau it c ...

okay..macam tu ka rupanya.....the catch is to find the convergent point. But then , to think about this , in a way kan , konsep ilmu dalam Islam
i will quote something from a book ( Kasmo et al 2003):

" Wahyu yang diterima oleh para Nabi daripada sumber Ilahi ialah ilmu yang paling pasti ( mutlak). Al - Quran juga mengiktiraf bahawa terdapat sumber - sumber ilmu lain jika diiringi dengan kajian dan orientasi yang betul akan dapat menyempurnakan kebenaran ilmu wahyu; sebab pada akhirnya  ia berasal daripada sumber yg sama iaitu ALLAH S.W.T .  Walaubagaimanapun, oleh kerana ilmu bukan wahyu tidak dianugerahkan Allah s.w.t secara langsung pada manusia dan ia terdedah kepada begitu banyak batasan metodologi dan sistem nilai maka ia tidak mendukung status yg sama seperti wahyu".

well for surelah kan?

but in theory based on the above statement , would you think there must be , somewhere at somepoint a point where all these theories  etc etc shoudl , would meet?

mbhcsf

well tak faham pun tak pa ada maknaa noo....well i  am not the kind of window - oh so - fun - shopping lady - not that type lerr .. at times when i think i want to go and buy errr...something i wil go to Sogo or KLCC or etc etc etc etc but at times when i want to relax myself i buy books..i wil go to Kino ..but i do dearly loves shoes.....e wa weee... ... but is it  LV ker aper ker well depends which is appealing and the quality of course. but as i'm on the go...I serahkan LV tu pada Datin Datin seri Nurhaliza jer lah...tak dak masa lah nak melaranm dgn all those stuffs,

a laptop - carrying bag HP is far more i dunno practical then oh so lovely LV though LV is a good brand...

ni yg marc and Spencer pun i simpan lagi sampai lusuh  but my mom just gave me a new purse...she bought at Bandung.

shoes? the most ergonomic and practical ones - scholl ni mahal pun tak per for health purpose lah good shoes i important .....so LV? naah impracticle apart from meetings, tapi depa tak tengok kaki I pun..buat apa.?

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 7-2-2009 05:32 PM ]