The evil that had blinded Muslims

barney50

Allah after all is a pagan GOD who desires in the spoils of war of mere mortals and to proof my point please read this surah [The Spoils of War) The Eighth Surah of the Qur'aan.

1. They ask you (O Muhammad ) about the    spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for All鈎 and the Messenger." So fear    All鈎 and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey All鈎 and His Messenger    (Muhammad ), if you are believers.

GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point.

12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the    angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will    cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks,    and smite over all their fingers and toes."

13. This is because they defied and disobeyed    All鈎 and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys All鈎 and His Messenger, then    verily, All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

14. This is the torment, so taste it, and    surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.



GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point. Why would Allah want them to listen to him when he had already given the freewill to man. Is man not free to make his choice?



23. Had All鈎 known of any good in them, He    would indeed have made them listen, and even if He had made them listen, they would but    have turned away, averse (to the truth).

If this is ordained to good and bad people then why pray to Allah? Now this is where the law of KARMA takes effect. You may be good in this life but because of your past life's evil action you pay the price with sufferings such as sickness, lost of loved ones through tragedy, lost of earnings and many such that one needed to experience.


25. And fear the Fitnah (affliction and    trial, etc.) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may    afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

Did Allah mean to say the atheist do not know what is rightand wrong nor the non Muslims are all doing the wrong thing in life?Arde all non Muslims killing innocent people and robbing them of theirlively hood? I wonder if these are truely word of GOD!

29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear    All鈎, He will grant you Furq鈔 a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong),    or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will    expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and All鈎 is the Owner of the Great Bounty.


Here is a clear verse to proof that Musims are thought to make war against non Muslims in order to establish Islam as the world religion.

29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear    All鈎, He will grant you Furq鈔 a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong),    or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will    expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and All鈎 is the Owner of the Great Bounty.

Need I say more about the evil that lurks?

[ Last edited by  barney50 at 7-2-2007 09:32 AM ]

witara

:setuju: :setuju: :setuju: :setuju: :setuju:

Oreng

For barney,

Man is NOT FREE to make a choice with regard to who is the real God, just like you are NOT FREE to choose your real parents.

Debmey

But allah is not real God.
God gave us brains to think and understand. so use it for God's sake!

To oreng,

this is what hERICtic_algon said.

You seem to be saying that yours is an exclusionary Religion.  Are you saying that the beliefs of the other 2/3 of the people on this planet are wrong and only yours is correct?

You are going to find out very quickly that many of the people in this group are much more interested in evidence than in faith.

barney50

1. responded by Oreng:For barney,
   
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. Man is NOT FREE to make a choice with regard to who is the real God, just like you are NOT FREE to choose your real parents.

Copy the Code

Who says so, Mohammed or your Allah? The choice of my parents is in accordance with my past karma and not by GOD. You do not write the operating system every time you  need to use the computer. The operating system has been written earlier by someone and needs to  be loaded in order to run the computer. Man's life is the same, his life has been predestined according to his past life and the next life is being written now based on every move you make now.

Learn the meaning of life before you talk about who is the real GOD. Muslims while they are young do not get the lesson of life but instead lesson on GOD and his only so called prophet Mohammed. Life is not base on Mohammed and Allah but much much more which I think Muslims need to learn from level one.

[ Last edited by  barney50 at 7-2-2007 06:07 PM ]

hiburanmalam

salam,
[quote]Learn the meaning of life before you talk about who is the real GOD. Muslims while they are young do not get the lesson of life but instead lesson on GOD and his only so called prophet Mohammed. Life is not base on Mohammed and Allah but much much more which I think Muslims need to learn from level one.[quote]
my oh my, you guys have to refer to post #5. and barney, life is not base on cows and elephants and much more i do think hindus need to learn from level zero.

barney50

hiburanmalam,

Since Muslims think they are the only species in this world created by GOD for them how could they know the beauty of other species. They do not even know that the elephant has better memory than human beings.

Did Muslism know this facts about elephant?

Did you know?
       
1. The brain of the elephant is larger than any other land mammal and it is
located in the back of the skull well away from the forehead.
2. Elephants are born with 35% of the mass of the adult brain
3. The elephant is among the more intelligent animals
4. The brain weight of the bull African elephant is 4.2-5.4 kg
5. The brain weight of the cow African elephant is 3.6-4.3 kg
6. Brain development in elephants is similar to that of humans.

Anyway we do not emphasize here about elephant or cow but logical topic about Muslim's comprehension of GOD and human life. May be you have zero knowledge about it.

hiburanmalam

salam

Since Muslims think they are the only species in this world created by GOD for them...

we Muslim believe that GOD the Almighty created the universe, the planets, stars, the Earth and every species that ever exist including the elephants you and me.

They do not even know that the elephant has better memory than human beings.

i hope youre not saying that all except Muslim know about elephants unless youre being ignorant and injustice.


and i believe all those are the beauty of God's creation. even so i dont see the logic to worship elephants and cows. perhaps i shall start a new thread about the questionable Hindu.

btw, please state the ayat numbers and the surah title for the above verses.

wira_melayu

Originally posted by barney50 at 7-2-2007 06:58 AM
Allah after all is a pagan GOD who desires in the spoils of war of mere mortals and to proof my point please read this surah [The Spoils of War) The Eighth Surah of the Qur'aan.

1. They ask you (O Muhammad ) about the    spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for All鈎 and the Messenger." So fear    All鈎 and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey All鈎 and His Messenger    (Muhammad ), if you are believers.

GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point.

The Eight Surah refers to the events surrounding the batle of badr in which 319 Muslims faced 1000 evil pagans that you supported who came in large number to frightened the Muslims and slaughtered them,but that's not going to happens,even if they came in a millions they will be defeated.The verse above is concerning the windfall or spoils acquired in the battles.I dont see anything wrong with it.

12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the    angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will    cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks,    and smite over all their fingers and toes."

13. This is because they defied and disobeyed    All鈎 and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys All鈎 and His Messenger, then    verily, All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

14. This is the torment, so taste it, and    surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.

GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point. Why would Allah want them to listen to him when he had already given the freewill to man. Is man not free to make his choice?

23. Had All鈎 known of any good in them, He    would indeed have made them listen, and even if He had made them listen, they would but    have turned away, averse (to the truth).

If this is ordained to good and bad people then why pray to Allah? Now this is where the law of KARMA takes effect. You may be good in this life but because of your past life's evil action you pay the price with sufferings such as sickness, lost of loved ones through tragedy, lost of earnings and many such that one needed to experience.

The passage talks about the fate of these antagonistic unbelievers in the Life to Come, warns them that they will ultimately be defeated and condemned to Hell, and urges them to cogitate on what happened to peoples of earlier eras who were unbelievers .Even to those peoples who invented the laws of Karma will go to hell

25. And fear the Fitnah (affliction and    trial, etc.) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may    afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

Did Allah mean to say the atheist do not know what is rightand wrong nor the non Muslims are all doing the wrong thing in life?Arde all non Muslims killing innocent people and robbing them of theirlively hood? I wonder if these are truely word of GOD!{/quote]

Did the verse mention about Atheist?

[quote]29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear    All鈎, He will grant you Furq鈔 a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong),    or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will    expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and All鈎 is the Owner of the Great Bounty.


Here is a clear verse to proof that Musims are thought to make war against non Muslims in order to establish Islam as the world religion.

Where's the proofs? Where show me?

barney50

1. responded by wira_melayu: The
   
2. Eight Surah refers to the events surrounding the batle of badr in which
   
3. 319 Muslims faced 1000 evil pagans that you supported who came in large
   
4. number to frightened the Muslims and slaughtered them,but that's not
   
5. going to happens,even if they came in a millions they will be
   
6. defeated.The verse above is concerning the windfall or spoils acquired
   
7. in the battles.I dont see anything wrong with it.

Copy the Code

wira_melayu,
You believe so? Never mind about the number of non believers of Islam against a small number of Muslims with a warrior know as Mohammed but what about Allah sharing the spoils of war? Your Allah to was interested in the spoils of war? Waht was he goin to do with that, take the share to his abode? Where did Mohammed get the idea of offering a portion of what he stole from the non Muslims?

1. The
   
2. passage talks about the fate of these antagonistic unbelievers in the
   
3. Life to Come, warns them that they will ultimately be defeated and
   
4. condemned to Hell, and urges them to cogitate on what happened to
   
5. peoples of earlier eras who were unbelievers .Even to those peoples who
   
6. invented the laws of Karma will go to hell

Copy the Code

But why worry of such when your Quran says Allah has given freewill to man to chose his destiny? So, Allah contradicted his own message to Mohammed?

1. Where's the proofs? Where show me?

Copy the Code

    The proof is in your Quran. Go and read again if you have missed out any passage. Why don't you refer tothe Qur'aan
Al-Hilali/Khan Translation.

Originally posted by barney50 at 7-2-2007 06:58 AM
Allah after all is a pagan GOD who desires in the spoils of war of meremortals and to proof my point please read this surah [The Spoils ofWar) The Eighth Surah of the Qur'aan.

1. They ask  ...

You prefer this things rather than your own scriptute, right? That show how  Quran works  and it attract you to discovermore and more. Its ok wheter you have bad intention or not.  Wemuslim here will help you to discover the truth and beauty of Islam.

barney50

israfil,

I appreciate your noble intention but mine is not to discover further about Islam but to prove to Muslims that Islam had natured terrorist with such vesres in the Quran. That Islam is a religion that cloned ruthles men of the Chrsitain crusaders and followed their path in wipping out citizens of nations who were against it.

I know that there are moderate Muslims who are not as aggressive or violent as those fanatics who are bent on  using of such verses to fulfill their dream of making Islam the only religion to exist on this planet. I've met the violent and moderate in my journey of my life of 57 years. What I'm against is Muslims who take the hadith and verses like this to make Islam look more a as a cult than a religon for spiritual growth and right path to GOD. So, if you are a moderate Muslim I apologise for my rude approach but if you are a violent and aggressive Muslim like others then I would continue my crusade to expose the evil effect of Islam.

[ Last edited by  barney50 at 8-2-2007 11:52 AM ]

Oreng

Hi Barney,

After 57 years on earth, you still unable to differentiate between Islam and its followers. How can you say you expose Islam's evil by looking at muslims ? You have wasted your life for 57 years having this kind of conclusion.

rurouni_khairul

Intresting. Barney, I would like to know more about your experience with the violent and ruthless Muslims you've encountered. I admit that we Muslims are like any other human beings and some of us, like any other human being, is capable of terrible things.

The reason I need you to tell me is because I need to know which sect they belong to. Historically, the Khawarij (Khijirites) are the first Muslims terrorists in the Muslim society and the term 'assasins' originated from them. They even declared war against their own fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. To make matter worst they declared war against Saidina Ali k.w. and Muawiyah r.a. the 4th Caliph and the first caliph of the Umayyah Caliphate.

Hope to hear from you soon.

barney50

1. responded by oreng:Hi Barney,
   
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. After 57 years on earth, you still unable to differentiate between Islam and its followers. How can you say you expose Islam's evil by looking at muslims ? You have wasted your life for 57 years having this kind of conclusion.

Copy the Code

It is in your holy book. I'm not blaming Muslims for their behaviour but the religion itself. I never hated Muslims coz they are innocent of the charges but it is the religion that had made them to be what they were in the past and now. Too many  interpretation by too many ullamas had confused its followers to the extend some had become zombies and just follow what has been taught to follow. One interprets that have dog in the house would drive away angels while one interprets that dogs can be held as long as they are not wet.

One interprets that greeting others on their festivities is shirik while one says you can but as long as you do not participate in their festivals. One interprets that Jihad means dying for the cause of Allah while the other interprets jihad means sacrificing for the sake of Islam.

One interpretes that Muslims should not live next to infidels while one interpretes you can but just pretend to be friendly. So, with so much confusion I can understand the predictment Muslims are going through and as I have said it is not their fault but the religion itself.

[ Last edited by  barney50 at 8-2-2007 03:34 PM ]

Oreng

Again your reply indicate that you use muslims' conduct to judge Islam, ie by looking at how muslim interprate our holy book. Dont blame the holy book for the different interpretation - some of the interpretation are readily shallow and it is out of your own misunderstanding. You have to learn Islam in order to know whetehr is there really different interpretation or it is actually an approaching discussion towards understanding the holy book.

rurouni_khairul

Yup, that's why there are Sunni, Shiite, Khawarij, Wahabi and so on..numerous sects of Islam because humans tends to interprate according to their own understanding hence, some of them gone astray and commit terrible things immaginable in the name of Islam.

Blame the person, not the religion he professed.

barney50

rurouni_khairul,

How could I blame the followers if the reigion itself shows different views to different sects. If Islam is the same all over the world how could so many thousands or millions have so many different interpretations. Ofcourse the basic is the same such as believe in Mohammed as the last prophet and Allah is the only GOD and there is no other GOD beside Allah. This is accepted by all Muslims all over the world but beside that the sunnah and the syariah differes according to the authors of various hadith from different sects and that is the crucial point here which gave Muslims of different sects different understandings of the sunnah of Mohammed.

So in short it is the religion that has caused these people to have a different set of mind. Some say apostates are punishable by death while some say no it is wrong. In some Islamic countries stoning to death is still practiced to this very day. Cutting of limbs and wrist were carried out during the Taliban's rule in Afghanistan. Now, tell me, was it the misundertanding and mis interpretaion of the Quran and hadith the cause of chaos? You will say yes but those who hold to such acts would say you are wrong and accuse you of blaspheme aganst Islam if you refute their claim. So how could Muslims be united when having such differences. But the trick to unite them is in the hands of Mullas who raise their voice against the west and Isreal. When this happens Muslims all over the world would unite to wipe out a common enemy. And that I would say is a secret weapon the bigots of Islam hold. Am I not right?

[ Last edited by  barney50 at 8-2-2007 09:36 PM ]

loona

Originally posted by barney50 at 8-2-2007 09:33 PM
rurouni_khairul,

How could I blame the followers if the reigion itself shows different views to different sects. If Islam is the same all over the world how could so many thousands or million ...

you are wrong. Human is designed like that.