JESUS VS PAUL # where to pray?

hERICtic_algon

Paul--"I will therefore that men pray everywhere lifting up holy hands...." (1 Tim. 2:8) versus Jesus--"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.... But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret" (Matt. 6:5-6). Those clamoring for prayer in the schools had better quote Paul and not Jesus.






[ Last edited by  hERICtic_algon at 16-10-2006 02:01 PM ]

Debmey

Can't one pray lifting up holy hands in closet? Where is the contradiction?

Why are Muslims disobeying God and praying so loudly for show?

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by hERICtic_algon at 10/15/06 10:00 PM


Paul--"I will therefore that men pray everywhere lifting up holy hands...." (1 Tim. 2:8) versus Jesus--"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they l ...

I think what it means is simply to pray sincerely.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by Debmey at 10/15/06 10:07 PM
Why are Muslims disobeying God and praying so loudly for show?

that's not the issue here. this is about Christianity. Futhermore, not only some muslims do that. Others, including some Jews and Christians do that too. So, don't allow your senses to discriminate.

Debmey

Its Jesus' teaching. You muslims have contradicted it.

Mgsrulz

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-10-2006 04:11 PM
Its Jesus' teaching. You muslims have contradicted it.

dude,your god is a hypocrite:

Let us look at the following from the Bible:

"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed....(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:39)"

"So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:44)"

"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be HEARD FOR THEIR MUCH SPEAKING. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.  (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)"

btw,the way he prays....doesnt it sound alot like how muslims pray? ;)
what with the bowing down face first and all.. ;)

SquiZZ

Mgsrulz wrote: dude,your god is a hypocrite:

- Jesus' focus in this instruction is on the vain, and not on the repetition. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity.

Debmey

It seems like our fren Mgsrulz have ni idea what he pastes all the time. It always ends up contradicting the islamic position.

vitruvian_man

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-10-2006 02:07 PM
Can't one pray lifting up holy hands in closet? Where is the contradiction?

Why are Muslims disobeying God and praying so loudly for show?

can you explain more on this please? :bgrin:
seems like you didnt even know how we pray

hERICtic_algon

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 16-10-2006 03:37 PM


I think what it means is simply to pray sincerely.

They have to deny Christ and His teachings to pray publicly or to clamor for prayer in school... and they don't even realize it!  You would think that a person who really believes that Christ is the Son of God...would do whatever this Christ said... and taught.. regardless of what others said!! But they don't... they deny Christ and His teachings in lieu of having their own will be done!!  

Debmey

The point is not that one pray publicly but to make it a point to broadcast it to all that you pray. To God, that is vanity.

hERICtic_algon

Mat. 6:6  But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret.

I think many Christians regard the entire world as their personal closet

How do we get them to see that is not the case? I am so tired of Chrisitans passing laws against the peaceful activities of consenting adults which turn normal people into criminals. The world does not belong to Chrisitans and we need to take it back from them. And we are doing just that!

Debmey

We Christians are free to voice our views just as you are free to voice yours.
Why do you think you have the monopoly to opinion?

Fornication, adultery and paedophilia is sinful.

peace

i212

by Debmey
We Christians are free to voice our views just as you are free to voice yours.
Why do you think you have the monopoly to opinion?

Fornication, adultery and paedophilia is sinful.

peace

ohh... thats why they not really follow Bible.
hehehehehehe.....

Debmey

same as why you don't follow quran

hERICtic_algon

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-10-2006 02:07 PM
Can't one pray lifting up holy hands in closet? Where is the contradiction?

Here are some different versions:

Young's Literal Trans.: "I wish, therefore, that men pray in every place..."

KJV: "I will therefore that men pray every where..."

New KJV: "I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere..."

Darby Trans.: "I will therefore that the men pray in every place..."

Amplified Bible: "I desire therefore that in every place men should pray..."

New Living Trans.: "In every place of worship, I want men to pray..."

21st Century KJV: "It is my will therefore that men pray everywhere..."

English Standard Version: "I desire then that in every place the men should pray..."

American Standard Version: "I desire therefore that the men pray in every place..."

Holman Christian Bible: "Therefore I want the men in every place to pray..."

In most versions, Paul wants men to pray everywhere they happen to be; the NLT specifies "every place of worship," the NIV says that men everywhere are to pray (a subtle but important change of wording). This is part of an instruction on how men and women are to behave. Men are to pray everywhere and lift up holy hands (v.8). Women are to dress modestly (v.9), do good works (v.10), learn in silence with all submission(v.11), and not have authority over men (v.12). Oddly enough, there is no instruction to women that THEY are to pray while lifting up holy hands, probably because it would conflict with the command for them to be silent.

At any rate, Paul doesn't mention anything about all this taking place strictly within the confines of a building (the NLT version notwithstanding), so I would guess he expects men (but not women, apparently) to pray wherever they happen to be...unlike Jesus, who said not to be like the hypocrites, but only to pray in private, where no one can see you but God.

Debmey

Ahahahahahaha............... algon seems to play dumb here. really childish
The meaning of closet simply means prayer is a private matter between man and God.
That is the understanding to all Christians since then and no one interprets it any other way.

hERICtic_algon

Originally posted by Debmey at 18-10-2006 08:53 AM
Ahahahahahaha............... algon seems to play dumb here. really childish
The meaning of closet simply means prayer is a private matter between man and God.
That is the understanding to all Ch ...

Right. That's why you pray IN PRIVATE, so nobody can see you. Jesus said not to pray like hypocrites, who want to be heard so they can appear holy, but to go someplace private, shut the door, and pray there to your heavenly skydaddy. Prayer in public schools is automatically ruled out by this instruction.

It happens without fail....another christian who acknowledges the problems; restates the contradiction....and then laughs as if the problem is solved.   Is this taught in sunday school or something.

Debmey

Not true. If you read the entire Matthew 5, 6 and &, you will realised that Jesus was speaking in metaphors throughout.
I don't see what is the point of you attacking the use of metaphors when no one ever took it literal. Ahahahahahaha

i212

Matthew 6:5-6 (King James Version)
5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6)But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


So... why still have church. Is that mean whoever go to church are hypocrites?

Is that mean praying in the house are Better than praying at Church?