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If Christian accepted OT, why worship idols?
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If Christian accepted OT, why worship idols?
The First & Second Commandments
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
Some of the most interesting discussions surround what it means to have no other gods before Yahweh.2 Does this mean that other deities could be tolerated as long as Yahweh was given priority (a belief system known as henotheism)? Or, while acknowledging there are other gods, is this a demand that Israel worship only Yahweh (a belief system known as monolatry)? Or are we to understand this command the way it has been traditionally understood, as denying the existence of all other gods except Yahweh (a belief system known as monotheism)?
Do Gods Grow Old and Retire?
Did Yahweh Have a Wife?
Why No Idols
Although the reason for the commandment against idols is not specified in the Ten Commandments, other passages shed light on possible explanations. In Deuteronomy 4:15-16, Moses declares,
Therefore, for your own sake, guard yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day Yahweh spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a graven image in the form of any figure.
That is, since Yahweh did not reveal himself in some anthropomorphic (human-like) or other form, the people must also refrain from making representations of him.
Isaiah 40:18-25 gives another reason why depicting Yahweh with images is unacceptable, even nonsensical.
And to whom can you liken God? And to what image can you compare him?
A craftsman casts an idol, and a smith overlays it with gold, forging silver chains.
As an offering, he chooses a special wood, wood that will not rot.
He seeks out a skillful craftsman to make an image that will not teeter.
Do you not know? Have you not heard?
Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood (from) the foundations of the earth
He is the one who dwells above the vault of the earth, and those who dwell on [the earth] are like grasshoppers.
He is the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent in which to dwell.
He is the one who brings princes to nothing,
the rulers of the earth he makes as though they never existed.
Barely are they planted, barely are they sown,
barely has their stem taken root in the earth,
And then he blows upon them and they dry up,
And the storm wind carries them away like straw.
Therefore, to whom will you compare me,
that I should be likened to him? says the Holy One.
Nothing of human invention could ever be adequate to capture all that Yahweh is. The one who has made everything and sits as king over all the earth and its inhabitants could never be comprehended by the human mind, let alone constructed into an image. The logic is straightforward, especially if one adopts a monotheistic perspective: How could a mere creature ever hope to accurately represent the Creator? And, in fact, one may even argue that making images to represent the Creator is prohibited because they already exist in human form. Using language almost identical to that used to describe the building of idols, God says during creation,
Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness.19
GENESIS 1:26A
God has already made images of himself . . . humans! Any attempt to make another image of God, especially from an inanimate object such as wood or metal, is to degrade both God and humankind.
Despite these injunctions against idolatry, worship of a god without a representative figure would have been nearly inconceivable to the cultures of the ancient world, which helps to explain the propensity on the part of the Israelites to make images representing the divine, such as the golden calf of the story we are about to encounter
======================================================
Excerpt from
book title: THE NINE COMMANDMENTS
writer: DAVID NOEL FREEDMAN
======================================================
The question is:
Why some sect of christian religion worship idols (be it images, or statues, or the cross-sign itself)?
To what i can understand is:
-> christian accepted OT
-> Nine (some say ten) commandments are in OT
-> therefore, this conclude that Christian accepted Nine Commandments.
But, the christian have gone far from the very first and second of the
commands, and not to describe the other seven (or eight for 10 cmmdmts).
Therefore, as it is always claimed... Christian is a fulfillment religion of Moses, and the saying that jesus did came "not to destroy but to fulfil (the earlier religion)"
For the third time i post and asked:
If human was made in god's image - who is the God-mother to whom the woman was based-made?
So, I would be glad if our christian friends here can talk something about this.
But, let me warn you.. please provide proof and strong evident to support your rebuttal. I dont want people (especially debmey) come here to show how good they are, but only talking nothing (cakap kosong), non-sense, immature and out of contact (of the matter above). Please send educated post that come from a reliable source, not from your emotion. Your co-operation would be most appreciated...
GreekGod,
Land of Early Civilization
In your spare time, read something worth writing,
or even better, write something worth reading! |
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Hey greekgod don't you notice something weird that's not happening here? I don't see the Old School fraternity making their presence felt here? Don't that tell us all something ? C'mon Debbo? C'mon Truthy? Anyone? Just say somethin!
ARI FUZZMAN |
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hi ari...
yeah.. i had noticed something...
those hard-shouted guys seem avoiding few of my threads.
they did not post anything, and some even claims that link i had provided does not working.
what a lame tactic here!
probably they require more readings, after all there are so many books where it can be easily accessible nowadays....
besides, i think they did not found any answer at answering-islam.com because i had started my research on my own, to which i had presented materials written amongs christian themselves...
takkan nak serang orang sama agamakan? lagipun apa la kredibiliti dia orang kat sini... ada mengaku teror al-quran (tapi tak pernah baca arabic al-quran), ada mengaku teror math (tapi asas kalkulus pun tak lepas), ada mengaku teror sejarah (tapi sejarah islam dan penulisan al-quran pun tak pernah baca)..
tapi tak per fuzzman.. we can wait, until we feel bored, dan mungkin term dan justification yg debmey guna utk mengaku kata dia menang, kita boleh gunakan pulak kat atas dia...
nampak gayanya, thread ni menang la? tak gitu?
(berdasarkan hukum yg debmey tentukan)
[ Last edited by greekgod on 8-2-2005 at 05:39 AM ] |
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Christians learn from muslims here to fine-tune their belief to more logical. for example, under pressure, Debmey disband the belief on the Original sin. |
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hehehe..nice info greekgod..NICE.. |
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This thread up!
Prove to us that you not worshipping any idols?
If you said that your are not worshipping those idols, will you burn all the clinging things in your church?
Will you step on these idols?
Will you clean up your church without any images and idols things?
And now see who is actually worshipping idols? |
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So its true then, they actually worship idols.
Which is then is true blasphemy against the 10 commandment.
And the xplaination still....................
Silence of the lamb? |
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Idols? What idols? Do you mean that black stone in Mecca that you bow down to?
If you people claimto0follow the laws of God, why bow down to an object at all?
cheers |
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BTW, was away for Chinese new year lah. Busy having fun. |
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Nope. I did not stray. I just think that the top post is disjointed in its presentation.
I don't see how it can claim that Christians worship idols. It simply extrapolates meanings of statements and twist them to suit teh author's agenda.
Perhaps sakinahmawaddah can do more homework and try to put the logic of Freeman's argument in his own words. |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 13-2-2005 04:38 AM:
Nope. I did not stray. I just think that the top post is disjointed in its presentation.
I don't see how it can claim that Christians worship idols. It simply extrapolates meanings of statements ...
then what do you call that statue in churches??action figures..  ..come deb.. |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 7-2-2005 11:09 AM:
If Christian accepted OT, why worship idols?
The First & Second Commandments
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
Some of the most inter ...
Greekgod...For the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox,idols...ok i change that to statues and holy iamges..have the same equivalent definition as religious art.Firstly, these statues arent "worshipped" like what you suggest..
wor穝hip ( P ) Pronunciation Key (w鹯shp)
n.
The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
Ardent devotion; adoration.
often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship
These verbs all mean to regard with the deepest respect, deference, and esteem. Revere suggests awe coupled with profound honor. Worship implies reverent love and homage rendered to God. In a more general sense worship connotes an often uncritical but always very admiring regard. Venerate connotes reverence accorded by virtue especially of dignity, character or age. To adore is to worship with deep, often rapturous love.
Statues and religious images are just like our national flag or honoured people.You do rise attentively when our national anthem is played and the flag is displayed.During your younger schooling days,you do rise up in respect for your teachers each time they entered the classroom as a sign of respect.These actions are similar just that the focus of the respect, deference, and esteem are to the statues and images..It is pretty far-fetched when you mentioned that we worship idols.. |
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Seraphim at 2005-2-14 11:57 AM:
Greekgod...For the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox,idols...ok i change that to statues and holy iamges..have the same equivalent definition as religious art.Firstly, these statues arent "w ...
Really? So you're a catholic huh? This is what your non-catholic bretherens say:
 http://www.letusreason.org/RC2.htm
To me, Catholics or non catholics, all are paul's christians. Worshipping Jesus is idolatry (statue or no statue). |
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Originally posted by Seraphim at 14-2-2005 05:57 AM:
Greekgod...For the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox,idols...ok i change that to statues and holy iamges..have the same equivalent definition as religious art.Firstly, these statues arent "w ...
really, it is an art, a fine art?
it may not be worshipped, but people call it sacred!
why?
read the news about a bread, which have a fungus on it, and people say
"hey, the fungus really looks alike to jesus"
and they keep the bread, and bid it for high price...
even worse... you had the cross-sign.. is for what? you think that cross can save you when you wear it? so, what do call that? just part of dressing?
and debmey.. we dont bow to black-stone in mecca.. never.. you would want to learn about hajj in the first place.. thanks.... |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 14-2-2005 05:21 PM:
really, it is an art, a fine art?
it may not be worshipped, but people call it sacred!
why?
read the news about a bread, which have a fungus on it, and people say
"hey, the fungu ...
I dont know where you get your weird thoughts about the bread and the cross...For me, the cross won't do a nickel if you're without faith..And i wont buy bread just because it has "Jesus image" on it..And this can be safely applied to almot all the Christians out there...No need to get so agitated about it:pray: |
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Originally posted by KENNKID at 14-2-2005 01:43 PM:
Really? So you're a catholic huh? This is what your non-catholic bretherens say:
http://www.letusreason.org/RC2.htm
...
For me i dont believe in Muhammad's teaching and even his own being at all.He's a rather devious person...But dont worry i was just expressing my thoughts since you expressed yours:love: |
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Originally posted by Seraphim at 14-2-2005 11:31 AM:
I dont know where you get your weird thoughts about the bread and the cross...For me, the cross won't do a nickel if you're without faith..And i wont buy bread just because it has "Jesus i ...
hahha... so, i think you would want to learn something about the truth of your language...
you wont be doing the statues, images.. are those things are placed for fun... why bow and kneel down before the any of these things?... you dont go to church eee?
if you say that those things are as a design.. then i think, christian has great interior designer... very great.. and to show their ability in ID, they create church, so that they can separate their home from church...
if you happened to go to italy.. you will know about the statues, which you can find almost everywhere.. at the hospital, anywhere... the bread, the linen.. i'll talk again about the bread (can we buy 'god'? christian bought their god with the highest bid!!!).. about the linen.. i'll post.. it is very interesting, because some say that it was jesus' punya kain kapan...
nak tau.. tunggguuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 14-2-2005 05:44 PM:
hahha... so, i think you would want to learn something about the truth of your language...
you wont be doing the statues, images.. are those things are placed for fun... why bow and kneel ...
You mentioned "worship" earlier..Suddenly there's a drastic change of words into "bow" and "kneeling"... I sure certainly do not worship idols and the likes... And that's final...
About statues existing everywhere in Europe...Of course they suppose to exist everywhere..It's their will to have it there...The majority there are Christians...So you are trying to say that you hate Christians?
And please if you can, provide some more details about bread being god...Thank you...
PS:- Never been to Italy before but would love to...
[ Last edited by Seraphim on 14-2-2005 at 05:58 PM ] |
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Post time 7-2-2005 11:09 AM
变色卡
Author
