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Truth.8

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 9-9-2009 22:52



Okay, have you ever asked someone why you should recite the Revelation to God during prayer? Isn't that totally contrary to the very reason why ...
mindpropeller Post at 9-9-2009 22:49

very nicely and in details explained.

nice work

wlio_snr

truth.8 good you now agree that Quran is the words of god
And come from Allah
yes good explanation
from who?
of cos the explanation is from Muslim
truth.8 you can see who is smarter
must be Muslim again
All christian are useless they know nuts only

Khar khar khar

Truth.8

truth.8 good you now agree that Quran is the words of god
And come from Allah
yes good explanation
from who?
of cos the explanation is from Muslim
truth.8 you can see who is smarter
must be Musl ...
wlio_snr Post at 9-9-2009 23:02

ding dong
u wrong again
try harder next time

wlio_snr

truth.8 good you now agree that Quran is the words of god
And come from Allah
yes good explanation
from who?
of cos the explanation is from Muslim
truth.8 you can see who is smarter
must be Muslim again
All christian are useless they know nuts only

Khar khar khar

Truth.8

truth.8 good you now agree that Quran is the words of god
And come from Allah
yes good explanation
from who?
of cos the explanation is from Muslim
truth.8 you can see who is smarter
must be Musl ...
wlio_snr Post at 9-9-2009 23:08

Ding Dong, Wrong answer !
Please hold on while our customer service
repenstative will assist you.
This forum is monitor for quality control improvement.
I am sorry, all our customer service
repenstative are busy at the moment.
Please come back later!
Good bye......

wlio_snr

truth.8 good you now agree that Quran is the words of god
And come from Allah
yes good explanation
from who?
of cos the explanation is from Muslim
truth.8 you can see who is smarter
must be Muslim again
All christian are useless they know nuts only

Khar khar khar

bronok

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 9-9-2009 22:52



Okay, have you ever asked someone why you should recite the Revelation to God during prayer? Isn't that totally contrary to the very reason why ...
mindpropeller Post at 9-9-2009 22:49

we recite to remind ourselves.
we recite His words. no recite or maybe u mean "preach" to GOD.
u think that our Prophet never performed solat or solah ?

gunblade712

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 10-9-2009 00:31

The root word for Solaa is SL and not SLT. Yes, we should go back to the Arabic root word to make sure we don't make mistake. This is basically the uniqueness and the strength of Arabic words. By having root word as the basis for its formation, each and every Arabic word is precise in its meaning and is easier for us to sense it in whatever context it is used. Thus, God said the Quran is very clear and precise. But then that does not mean we could take for granted all the translations of the Quran are precise and correct. We have to remember that all translations of the Quran are governed by an authority, I don't know what. This is actually how they be able to syncronize and control the teaching of the religion to the whole muslim world.

But the root word ain't "SL" in the first place, brother. I did gave you the link in which it tells you roughly the word in Arabic. Did you check it out?

and please check out this site, too :

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/صلى

If you care to check the verse above, you shall find it located in the middle of God's long deliberation on how to handle your marriage problems. So, don't you think it is kind of odd to say that God suddenly skipping out of the topic, talking about "solat" (the rite) for two verses and then dashing right back into the topic again? From my perspective, I don't see God skipping topic. God is deliberating the issue all the way through. Settling your marriage problems according to God's decree are commitments you must oblige. So, after going through a lengthy part on it, it is just natural for God to remind you to observe those commitments (if they do arise). But if you shall have any fear to something as a result of the crisis you may hold back for a while but proceed to fulfill them once the condition is okay. 

That is how I understand verse 2:238

alrite. seeing that this is your opinion, and we take it that you agreed that in order to fully understand what the Quran says you need to look at the arabic kalimah, let's see what is the arabic word used for "Middle Prayer" . 


There's a word "Al-Was'taa" (pardon me, I do not know how to spell the arabic pronunciation using the Roman lettering), and this means "Central" or "Middle". The verse says "...Wa's-'solaaatil-Wustaa.." what does it mean? Middle Commitment?

The same word (solat) is again used in Surah An-Nisa', verse 101 - 103 :

When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.


When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them: When they finish their prostrations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let the other party come up which hath not yet prayed - and let them pray with thee, Taking all precaution, and bearing arms: the Unbelievers wish, if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage, to assault you in a single rush. But there is no blame on you if ye put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because ye are ill; but take (every) precaution for yourselves. For the Unbelievers Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment. 
When ye pass (Congregational) prayers, celebrate Allah.s praises, standing, sitting down, or lying down on your sides; but when ye are free from danger, set up Regular Prayers: For such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times.

(An-Nisa' : 101-103)

Now, those word which I have underlined used the word "solat" in it, which is the same word that was in discussion above. Does this carries the same meaning of "commitment" just like what you've explained, brother?

Verse 103 says that prayers are enjoined on believers at stated time. In other words, this "solat" is enjoined unto the believers at a fixed time. Does this also carries the meaning of "commitment" , sir?

And please take note on the wording in green. The verse talks about prostration, sujud, derrived from the root word sajada. Does this have anything to do with "commitment" ?

The Surah is very easy to understand. It is about putting some time to read the Quran. God says He knows that we shall be pretty occupied with our commitment (jobs, chores, etc.) during the day (read verse 7). But according to Him, we may also perform our commitments during the nights. It is up to us how long we want to work at night. Half a night, quarter of it. Just take the time (read verse 2-3). However in verse 4-7 He reminds us to do take some of the time at night to read the Quran.

In verse 20, God is just repeating the whole idea of fulfilling our commitments at night and reminding us again to take some time to read the Quran. God even goes further that if we may have lack of time, just read the easier part of the Quran will do. That is our God, sir. Haven't you feel like going to cry?
mindpropeller Post at 9-9-2009 17:59

Thank you for your opinion, but I beg to differ. You've missed one very minor point which can bring about huge differences. You claimed that the surah is about putting some time to read the Quran (bold wordings) and you also says that Allah knows we are busy with our commitment yet we can do it also at night (underlined word)...

But Al-An'am, verse 96, Allah has stated out that :

He causes the dawn to break; and He has made the night for rest, and the sun and the moon for reckoning; this is an arrangement of the Mighty, the Knowing. (Al-An'am : 96)

Now, sir, if you claimed that Al-Muzzammil is talking about doing your commitments at night (chores etc) and you can take your time, how come in Al-An'am Allah stated that He made the night for rest? 

Secondly, the verse itself doesn't talked about reading/studying the Quran during night-time. We can see, from the verse itself, that :

73:1 O you who have wrapped up in your garments! 
73:2 Rise to pray in the night except a little,
73:3 Half of it,or lessen it a little,
73:4 Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.

the word "and" there clearly differs the first order from the second ones. the first ones is to "rise and pray in the night except a little" , the second one is to "recite the Quran as it ought to be recited. This shows that there are two things Allah has recommended for you to do at night..

1. Rise up to pray

AND

2. Read the Quran as it is ought to read.

We do not have problem with the second ones. It's the first ones which we differs, as forwarded by me on my previous points. 

If there is something which I have missed, please elaborate more and explain to us further regarding your opinion that "solat" is actually "commitment" and not the Contact Prayer. 

Allah knows best.

gunblade712

Truth.8, I am STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GATHER YOUR BALLS AND DEBATE WITH ME ON YOUR ALLEGATIONS OF 5:51 FROM THE QURAN.

PLEASE REFER TO MY POST #1779.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE GUTS, IT WOULD BE BEST IF YOU SHUT YOUR WHINING HERE.

Truth.8

Truth.8, I am STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GATHER YOUR BALLS AND DEBATE WITH ME ON YOUR ALLEGATIONS OF 5:51 FROM THE QURAN.

PLEASE REFER TO MY POST #1779.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE GUTS, IT WOULD BE BE ...
gunblade712 Post at 10-9-2009 11:48

Let me get straight for once and for all, the sura promote such hatred verses. it says not to make friend with Jews and Christians.

In Bible we do not find such verses. Show me where in the Bible that God says' do not make friends with pagan faith"

so, u tell me , if you have ball.....why your allah need to  write such hatred remarks in your so call holy book? is this verses injected by human or god?

u tell me now?????

gunblade712

1810# Truth.8

that's all you can say?

do not make friends with them? where does it says that, Truth.8?

seems like you don't even know how to quote and proof to me your allegations in the first place.

you don't have the BALLS to debate with me, Truth.8. Go home and cry to your mama.

wlio_snr

this one also i like

Khar khar khar

1810# Truth.8

that's all you can say?

do not make friends with them? where does it says that, Truth.8?

seems like you don't even know how to quote and proof to me your allegations in the fi ...
gunblade712 Post at 10-9-2009 13:40

pendakwa

Let me get straight for once and for all, the sura promote such hatred verses. it says not to make friend with Jews and Christians.

In Bible we do not find such verses. Show me where in the Bib ...
Truth.8 Post at 10-9-2009 13:35

1 Samuel 15:2,3
2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekitesforwhat they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came upfromEgypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a]everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death menand women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

Numbers 31:17,18
17 Now kill all the boys. And killevery woman who has slept with aman,18 but save for yourselves everygirl who has never slept with aman.

Deuteronomy 20:16
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

What else to show, not only hatred, murderer....what do you have to say about this?????

mindpropeller

But the root word ain't "SL" in the first place, brother. I did gaveyou the link in which it tells you roughly the word in Arabic. Did youcheck it out?

and please check out this site, too :

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/

صلى

I shall maintain my view on the root word of SL. You shall have yours, sir.

alrite.seeing that this is your opinion, and we take it that you agreed thatin order to fully understand what the Quran says you need to look atthe arabic kalimah, let's see what is the arabic word used for "MiddlePrayer" .

There's a word "Al-Was'taa" (pardon me, I do not know how to spell thearabic pronunciation using the Roman lettering), and this means"Central" or "Middle". The verse says "...Wa's-'solaaatil-Wustaa.."what does it mean? Middle Commitment?

God has decreed upon us on many things. All those decrees are supposed to be our commitments. But some of those decrees or commitments may not be something that we have to observe all the time. For example we don't need to divorce our wife everyday just to fulfill the decreed obligations assigned to it. But there are commitments of more significant and those shall be our middle/midmost commitments? What are they? Think.

"Andwhen you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten theprayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surelythe unbelievers are your open enemy. And when you are among them and keep upthe prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them taketheir arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear,and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, andlet them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelievedesire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they maythen turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you,if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms,and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisementfor the unbelievers. Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allahstanding and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keepup prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers. And be notweak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they(too) suffer pain as you suffer pain, and you hope from Allah what they do nothope; and Allah is Knowing, Wise". - 4:101-104

Now, those word which I have underlined used the word"solat" in it, which is the same word that was in discussion above.Does this carries the same meaning of "commitment" just like whatyou've explained, brother?

Okay, Lets look at the verses above. The verses seem to be translated very sloppily. Baffling and hilarious I may say. Do you really believe God had asked the Apostle to lead a prayer for the non-believers? Moreover they were the enemy mind you. These verses are clearly talking about battle tactic. Unfortunately some of the words have been corrupted and most of us fail to realize the truth.

Thankyou for your opinion, but I beg to differ. You've missed one very minorpoint which can bring about huge differences. You claimed that thesurah is about putting some time to read the Quran (bold wordings) andyou also says that Allah knows we are busy with our commitment yet wecan do it also at night (underlined word)...

But Al-An'am, verse 96, Allah has stated out that :

He causes the dawn to break; and He has made the night for rest, and the sun and the moon for reckoning; this is an arrangement of the Mighty, the Knowing. (Al-An'am : 96)

Now, sir, if you claimed that Al-Muzzammil is talking about doing yourcommitments at night (chores etc) and you can take your time, how comein Al-An'am Allah stated that He made the night for rest?

Sir, God is not that stupid like us. Yes in above verse he says He made the night for rest. But that is a general statement. In the Surah we previously discussed, God seem to have no problem if we were to work at night. You can work through half the night, three quarter of the night,or just a brief of it. It is up to you. So, what's wrong with that? Look at the world around you, we do need some people to work during the night,plenty of them even have to work all night long.

But the real message of God in that Surah is, do allocated some time to read the Quran.

Secondly, the verse itself doesn't talked about reading/studying theQuran during night-time. We can see, from the verse itself, that :

73:1 O you who have wrapped up in your garments!
73:2 Rise to pray in the night except a little,
73:3 Half of it,or lessen it a little,
73:4 Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.

the word "and" there clearly differs the first order from the secondones. the first ones is to "rise and pray in the night except a little", the second one is to "recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.This shows that there are two things Allah has recommended for you todo at night..

1. Rise up to pray

AND

2. Read the Quran as it is ought to read.

We do not have problem with the second ones. It's the first ones which we differs, as forwarded by me on my previous points.

If there is something which I have missed, please elaborate more andexplain to us further regarding your opinion that "solat" is actually"commitment" and not the Contact Prayer.

Allah knows best.

I have taken my time to explain about the above Surah and I believe I have said it as I should have said it. Maybe, you should really look back at the surah, read and ponder diligently verse by verse. The verses are very simple and very clear, everybody should have no problem to understand them.

wlio_snr

wow what kind of holy book is that
teach the follower to kill
must be the bible

Khar khar khar

gunblade712

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 10-9-2009 14:20

صلى

I shall maintain my view on the root word of SL. You shall have yours, sir.

fair enough, sir. (this is why I prefer to discuss under the supervision of those who has higher knowledge in both the religion and the arabic language).

God has decreed upon us on many things. All those decrees are supposed to be our commitments. But some of those decrees or commitments may not be something that we have to observe all the time. For example we don't need to divorce our wife everyday just to fulfill the decreed obligations assigned to it. But there are commitments of more significant and those shall be our middle/midmost commitments? What are they? Think.

and what is the midmost commitments as per what the Quran says, sir? When Allah s.w.t. says "Middle Commitment" (as per what you've claimed), what's the reference actually? What does Allah wants us to put as our "Middle Commitment" ?


Bear in mind that you believed that the Quran shall provide you with the answer. I would then insist that you answer this question by supporting your answer with a Quranic verse. and before you answer please look the point and verse which I'll be quoting after this, as it has the same word in the verse (which is "solat")

Okay, Lets look at the verses above. The verses seem to be translated very sloppily. Baffling and hilarious I may say. Do you really believe God had asked the Apostle to lead a prayer for the non-believers? Moreover they were the enemy mind you. These verses are clearly talking about battle tactic. Unfortunately some of the words have been corrupted and most of us fail to realize the truth.

huh? ok, first of all, where does it says that Allah s.w.t instructed the Prophet s.a.w. to lead a prayer for the non-believers? that verse does speaks of war, but it teaches on how to perform our Contact Prayers during war.

If you claim that the verse is loosely translated, then please, provide to us the most accurate translation so that we may learn from the Book. 

Another verse regarding "solat" which you need to take into consideration :

"Verily, I am Allah. There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise. (Noble Qur'an; 20:14)

In the verse, the arabic word used for "celebrating My praise" is "dzikri". Now we all know that "dzikri" also means "to remember" or "remembrance" .

Now, if you say that "solat" is "commitment" , the verse would then read "establish regular commitment for celebrating My praise". then WHAT type of commitment equals to dzikr?

again, let's look at Al-Baqarah, verse 239:

(During war and emergency) if you (are in a state of) fear, then (perform the 'salat') standing up, (walking), or on horseback. Then, as soon as you have peace, remember Allah in the manner He has taught you which you (previously) did not know.(Al-Baqarah : 239)

again, the kalimah "dzikr" is used here. Yet, Allah says that this "dzikr" is not known to the Muslims at that time. 

Now, what type of "commitment" was not known to the Muslims at that time, brother? Allah says that He has taught them the dzikr (which is also the "solat" according to 20:14) which they themselves do not know at that time.

WHERE in the Quran does it stated what this "dzikr" is and where does it show that Allah s.w.t. teaches them this "dzikr" ?

Sir, God is not that stupid like us. Yes in above verse he says He made the night for rest. But that is a general statement. In the Surah we previously discussed, God seem to have no problem if we were to work at night. You can work through half the night, three quarter of the night,or just a brief of it. It is up to you. So, what's wrong with that? Look at the world around you, we do need some people to work during the night,plenty of them even have to work all night long.

But the real message of God in that Surah is, do allocated some time to read the Quran.

and WHY do you deemed that it is a general statement, sir? You haven't made any concrete statement regarding Surah Al-Muzzammil that it speaks of commitment. the usage of the word "solat" itself is still unsettled, due to the many verses which you did not explained to us. 

I have taken my time to explain about the above Surah and I believe I have said it as I should have said it. Maybe, you should really look back at the surah, read and ponder diligently verse by verse. The verses are very simple and very clear, everybody should have no problem to understand them.


mindpropeller Post at 10-9-2009 14:13

sorry sir. Which part of it that I need to look back and ponder? I've quoted even from your own translation of the verse and asked you for the explanations of the words in which you yourself presented to us. 

Please explain to me which part of the verse should I look in order to grasp the true understanding of the verse? Allow me to re-quote back my statement unto you :

Secondly, the verse itself doesn't talked about reading/studying the Quran during night-time. We can see, from the verse itself, that :

73:1 O you who have wrapped up in your garments!
73:2 Rise to pray in the night except a little,
73:3 Half of it,or lessen it a little,
73:4 Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.

the word "and" there clearly differs the first order from the second ones. the first ones is to "rise and pray in the night except a little", the second one is to "recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.This shows that there are two things Allah has recommended for you to do at night..

1. Rise up to pray

AND

2. Read the Quran as it is ought to read.

We do not have problem with the second ones. It's the first ones which we differs, as forwarded by me on my previous points.

If there is something which I have missed, please elaborate more and explain to us further regarding your opinion that "solat" is actually "commitment" and not the Contact Prayer. 

Allah knows best. 

Truth.8

1 Samuel 15:2,3
2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekitesforwhat they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came upfromEgypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and to ...
pendakwa Post at 10-9-2009 13:57

sorry wrong answer. God did not ask us to hate other races rather God will handle this sinful peoples

I have already rebuke this long time ago yet u bring it again and again

tell me, does the verses ask other humans to hate Amelekites?? or doest God handle them?

why God did not handle Jews and Christians rather asking muslims not to make friend with them?

clearly, this verses not from God rather man made verses????

Truth.8

1810# Truth.8

that's all you can say?

do not make friends with them? where does it says that, Truth.8?

seems like you don't even know how to quote and proof to me your allegations in the fi ...
gunblade712 Post at 10-9-2009 13:40

if i hve no balls, why u still running away from my question?

does your god is so powerless that your god need tell muslims not to make friends with jews and christians??
what kind verses is this?

wlio_snr

christian god teach his follower to kill
What kind of religion is this

Khar khar khar

Truth.8

Post Last Edit by mindpropeller at 10-9-2009 14:20

Okay, Lets look at the verses above. The verses seem to be translated very sloppily. Baffling and hilarious I may say. Do you really believe God had asked the Apostle to lead a prayer for the non-believers? Moreover they were the enemy mind you. These verses are clearly talking about battle tactic. Unfortunately some of the words have been corrupted and most of us fail to realize the truth.
mindpropeller Post at 10-9-2009 14:13

Very nicely explained. I give you golden thumb up