The evil that had blinded Muslims

barney50 · Post time 29-3-2007 07:50 PM

Reply #159 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
If I am shaken, I won't reveal any Quranic verses here. Because I am
confident that my book is perfect. And then, I revealed my book to a
Hindus like you..who just only read small part of scripture and say you
know the whole scripture. So, up to you say my book got flaws or not
because reading small part of it won't proof anything.I am feel so
sorry, even many times explained, you still go to other sources first
before going to Quran. That's why in your head Quran got flaws, but for
Muslims who read the whole Quran many -many times, know the Book is
perfect and you claimed are wrong.

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I believe what I have seen and have read in the hadith as well as the Quran. You Quran has nothing that could give me any spirituality. I can tell you in simple short note that the Quaran is a meaningless. An exmple surah:009.002:YUSUFALI:Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (byyour falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.These verse is what warning those who reject HIM? Heh! Allah must have forgotten that he also said he has given the freewill to man to make his own choice. But then why is he worried and threatens i this verse. You see there is nothing that I could gain for it. May be you like those verses because you fear hellfire. But I do not because I know there is no hellfire and GOD is not a revengful character as made our by Mohammed.

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You see..this what I am trying to tell you above.Explained with the
evidences from the scriptures, but still you understand not.Still going
to hadith first, and then going to Quran. Hadith and sunnah is
different but still have connection.In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah
has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of
Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic
jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are
indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of
them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah,
but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the
Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself,
which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.
Quran is the leader of the hadith. So, by that you can refer which hadith is true and fake.
I am not saying the hadith is the wisdom of Islam,I said Wisdom of
Muhammad that Allah has given to him to reveal the Quran
physically.Explained, but unfortunately, you always go another way
around,

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But you did not show me a verse in the Quran that says Muslims must refer to the hadith in ordeer to understand the Quran. You do that and I believe you otehrwise it is all the work of the bigots of Islam who made such that the hadith became the second Quran for Muslims.

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by eastrun:
See..explained, and once again you act like a stupid Hindu, in order
to say you are right, you repeat and repeat the same things.Well..
maybe your head to big like an alien, until keep thinking something
that you cannot imagine. Virgins?.I have explained this and you keep
repeating this, meaning that you are so desperate for the virgins which
Muslims know that they are only a parable in the
paradise.And...war...looks like you also desperate for that where
Muslims know that Islam taught nothing about that.Seed of violence.

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The seed of violence was planed in the mind of Muslims since 622AD. The day Mohammed fle to Medina the seed of violence was planed in his mind as per hadith. The 72 virgins were promised to those who fight in the cause of Allah and Mohammed as per hadith. The paradise of vine and women was promised to those who die in jihad by Allah and Mohammed and so the seed was planted and it has grown so big today that none can control the hight nor are able to chop it down. In fact they are still being natured and manured by the Saudi Government.

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by eastrun:
Huh...reading a small part,and the you can see the whole
picture?.You must be kidding. About the charge of Syariah court, that
one you made your own law. By the way, I feel, the more you talk, the
more flaws about yourself you revealed.Just read a small part and then
asking someone who has nothing to do about Quran, and then you accept
it.Then who is a true liar here?.

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Huh! Getting worried that the myth is bing exposed. Did you not read about the religious department officers busted inot a hotel room and took pictures of couple in compromising position? It was also posted in the youtube. Huh! This is the knid of islamic rule by the syariah laws? Oficers paid to peep on courting couples? Heh! Whoever comitted ilicit sexs is theoir problem and are answerable to GOD but why this JAIM so kepoci? The couple are Muslism and they know what will happen on judgement day if they believe in Islam but still they commit such which means they do not believe in Islam. So why bother if they do not believe? And knowing that those who believe would not commit such sin then there would be no job for them. Is that not right? What is the big deal saying ours is a divine law and yet you see Muslims commiting sins?Which means to say there are Muslims who do not believe in Islam but just have to carry the name because their parents force them. So is a forced religion like forcing a bitter drug into a child throat.

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by eastrun:
Then, disperse la the rezeki, if you can.Changing the topic once you failed.Stupid old man.

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What rezeki? Did you not understand what I explained that Islam cannot do. Your rezeki comes from you own action and not from GOD. But Muslims fail to uynderstand that and what can I do if you canot understand. Do you know how you are getting your meals. It is also reziki that you earned in your past life other wise you'd be begging in the street fro your next meal.....hahahahaah

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by eastrun:
Hahaha...the tsunami not the end of the world and the rain which
Noah suffered not the end of the world also.The trumpet will b blew
when the world destroyed and we will be gathered at a place called
Padang Masyhar.I said about the Judgement Day but you changed the topic
to disasters.Read carefully before comment.Or better read the whole
Quran first

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You must be joking... The whole world was in water and only Noah's family was saved for the next new generation and yet you say no. Well, Quran must have a new story created to make it more interesting uh!? Well, then wait for the trumpet to blow some 420,000 years later.

barney50 · Post time 29-3-2007 08:08 PM

Reply #159 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
Hek eleh...Christian faith is totally different with Islam even
though believe in the same God. The Christian make the confession to
the priest, but Muslims make the confession direct to Allah. Of course
la we have to ask forgiveness everyday because we are humans which are
not flawless.Everytime we do wrongdoings and then we repent.That's not
dreaming, that is reality
About you, when you do wrongdoings, you feel happy.That's why you call yourself God.Dreaming to be flawless
"Doth not man see that it is We Who created him from sperm? yet
behold! he (stands forth) as an open adversary!.And he makes
comparisons for Us, and forgets his own (origin and) Creation: He says,
"Who can give life to (dry) bones and decomposed ones (at that)?"(Surah Yaasiin 36:77~78)

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Knowing or unknowing man makes mistake everyday of his life. At the end of the day asking pardon from GOD is normal for all who believe in GOD butit does not mean GOD forgives all your sins. You created it and you have to repent while GOD only wittness it. But you cannot escape the sins you commited. Muslim or no Muslim you pay for the sins one way or other. And beware your generations too would have to pay for you sins and that is called law of Karma.

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by eastrun:
It is continuation as well as RE-CORRECTING the previous
scriptures.I have explained this. Still not able to understand ,old
man?.Allah is true:
"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6). Subhanallah!!

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Yes, GOD is the truth but that does not make Islam is the truth or any others for that matter.

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by eastrun:
Eh!..out of topic...I asked you to compare the verses with different
translations, in order to proof that they are talking the same things
or not, but this is your answer?.Did I ask you to refer to Hadith
before the Quran?.My goodness, your brain just cannot remember what we
have talked about, within a day.No wonder la, worshipping the idols
will always produce a fool..just like the idols.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:1)

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But its Muslims who refer to hadith. Even now you are quoting for the hadith and that makes Muslism having more faith in the hadith then their Quran. I just saw the new in TV 3 where a father of a Muslims girl had taken the school to court for failing his daughter because she did not take religious class but attended moral education. This is what will happen in the future if you force someone against his or her own freewill. It is very obvious that Muslims are like bonded slaves. They cannot do as they chose as far as religious believe is concern, The religious department is worried that Islam wil deminish if such freedom is given.

eastrun · Post time 30-3-2007 08:41 PM

1)
I believe what I have seen and have read in the hadith as well as the Quran. You Quran has nothing that could give me any spirituality. I can tell you in simple short note that the Quaran is a meaningless. An exmple surah:009.002:YUSUFALI:Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (byyour falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.These verse is what warning those who reject HIM? Heh! Allah must have forgotten that he also said he has given the freewill to man to make his own choice. But then why is he worried and threatens i this verse. You see there is nothing that I could gain for it. May be you like those verses because you fear hellfire. But I do not because I know there is no hellfire and GOD is not a revengful character as made our by Mohammed.

My answer:
Obviously, you don't understand the freewill that Allah has given to you even though explained before.

He gave you two ways, and it is up to you to to choose which way.It is all your choice:

"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)

And He already gave you which way need to be avoided and which one need to be followed.That is:

The bad way:
"Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-"(Surah Yaasiin 36:60)

The straight way:
"And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way?"(Surah Yaasiin 36:61)

And He told you, what you will get when you follow the bad way:
"Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:9)

"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:39)

For those who follow the Straight Way:

"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!- beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of Unbelievers in the Fire."(Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35).

So, blame yourself don't blame Allah because Allah punish you after you punished yourself in making wrong choice:

"In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:10)

Reading small part of the Quran won't help you to understand it!!.
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2)
But you did not show me a verse in the Quran that says Muslims must refer to the hadith in ordeer to understand the Quran. You do that and I believe you otehrwise it is all the work of the bigots of Islam who made such that the hadith became the second Quran for Muslims

My answer:
My goodness...Allah said:

"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."(Surah Al-Imran 3:164)

Read the verse, it explains, beside the Scripture, you have to follow the Wisdom.See the word INSTRUCTING.

Allah say to Muhammad:

"Have patience at what they say, and remember our servant David, the man of strength: for he ever turned (to Allah.."(Surah Saad 38:17)
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3)
Huh! Getting worried that the myth is bing exposed. Did you not read about the religious department officers busted inot a hotel room and took pictures of couple in compromising position? It was also posted in the youtube. Huh! This is the knid of islamic rule by the syariah laws? Oficers paid to peep on courting couples? Heh! Whoever comitted ilicit sexs is theo....

My answer:
Then, you want to just let them do the wrongdoings and destroy themselves?.I wonder if your son do the same thing, will you just let them?.Will you call yourselves kepoci?.The reason they do that is to prevent the youngsters from commit the wrongdoing and prevent them from destroy themselves. Allah said:

"When some of them said: "Why do ye preach to a people whom Allah will destroy or visit with a terrible punishment?"- said the preachers:" To discharge our duty to your Lord, and perchance they may fear Him."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:164).

It just for reminder, after that Allah will decide:

"When they disregarded the warnings that had been given them, We rescued those who forbade Evil; but We visited the wrong-doers with a grievous punishment because they were given to transgression."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:165).

Explained!!.Alhamdulillah.
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4)
What rezeki? Did you not understand what I explained that Islam cannot do. Your rezeki comes from you own action and not from GOD. But Muslims fail to uynderstand that and what can I do if you canot understand. Do you know how you are getting your meals. It is also reziki that you earned in your past life other wise you'd be begging in the street fro your next meal.....hahahahaah

My answer:
Well..changing the topic, I said, since you said that you are God, why don't you disperse the rezeki..if you are not believe that Allah who disperse the rezeki to those who He has chosen. Allah said:

"Allah enlarges the sustenance (which He gives) to whichever of His servants He pleases; and He (similarly) grants by (strict) measure, (as He pleases): for Allah has full knowledge of all things.."(Surah Al-Ankabut 29:62)
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You must be joking... The whole world was in water and only Noah's family was saved for the next new generation and yet you say no. Well, Quran must have a new story created to make it more interesting uh!? Well, then wait for the trumpet to blow some 420,000 years later.

My answer:
You are joking...because I never said the trumpet blew during the disaster.Furthermore, I was talking about the Day Of Judgement.

Regarding the time when the world will be destroyed,nobody knows only Allah.You can say 420,000 years later.but maybe it will happen next year etc. Nobody knows.

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:187)

But...

"Verily, this is the Very Truth and Certainly.So celebrate with praises the name of thy Lord, the Supreme."(Sural Al-Waaqiah 56:95~96)

[ Last edited by eastrun at 30-3-2007 09:00 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 30-3-2007 08:53 PM

6)
Knowing or unknowing man makes mistake everyday of his life. At the end of the day asking pardon from GOD is normal for all who believe in GOD butit does not mean GOD forgives all your sins. You created it and you have to repent while GOD only wittness it. But you cannot escape the sins you commited. Muslim or no Muslim you pay for the sins one way or other. And beware your generations too would have to pay for you sins and that is called law of Karma

My answer:
You see how cruel your faith is.You do the wrongdoings, and then you make the next generations to pay back what you have done?.It just like, you kill people, but your son will be punished?.In Islam, no such practice. When you do wrong, you will suffer with what you have done, not your generations because:

"Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:48)

You do the wrongdoings, you will pay for that yourself...unless you repent.

"Others (there are who) have acknowledged their wrong-doings: they have mixed an act that was good with another that was evil. Perhaps Allah will turn unto them (in Mercy): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."(Surah At-Taubah 9:102).
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7)
Yes, GOD is the truth but that does not make Islam is the truth or any others for that matter

My answer:
I repeat:
"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)
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8)
But its Muslims who refer to hadith. Even now you are quoting for the hadith and that makes Muslism having more faith in the hadith then their Quran. I just saw the new in TV 3 where a father of a Muslims girl had taken the school to court for failing his daughter because she did not take religious class but attended moral education. This is what will happen in the future if you force someone against his or her own freewill. It is very obvious that Muslims are like bonded slaves. They cannot do as they chose as far as religious believe is concern, The religious department is worried that Islam wil deminish if such freedom is given

My answer:

You are not answering my question...show to me where in the holy Quran which was translated by different translators, saying that Allah is weak. You changed the topic already. No Muslims refer to Hadith first before go for Quran.Answer my question!!

[ Last edited by eastrun at 30-3-2007 09:02 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 31-3-2007 08:02 PM

Reply #163 beastrun's post

responded by eastrun:
Obviously, you don't understand the freewill that Allah has given to you even though explained before.
He gave you two ways, and it is up to you to to choose which way.It is all your choice:
"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)

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So why worry if it is man's own freewill. Muslims seem to think they are the voice of Mohamemd and Allah. It is very obvious what the Quran says. May be you do not undertand the above verse. It says that Allah will never change the grace which he had given to mankind until they change what is in their souls. So, why would Allah worry or tell Mohammed to force the pagans to convert. Did he not tell Mohammed that his duty is only to depart the message and not anything else. But how come Muslims contradict by saying Mohamed told to do this and that saying Muslims must follow the sunnah of their prophet?
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by eastrun:
And He already gave you which way need to be avoided and which one need to be followed.That is:
The bad way:
"Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-"(Surah Yaasiin 36:60)
The straight way:
"And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way?"(Surah Yaasiin 36:61)

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So, you mean to say the Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhist are all praying to Satan? Is that what you mean? How do Muslims know that Allah is not Satan? Can you proof that Allah is not Satan in disguise?
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by eastrun:
And He told you, what you will get when you follow the bad way:
"Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:9)
"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:39)
For those who follow the Straight Way:
"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!- beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of Unbelievers in the Fire."(Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35).
So, blame yourself don't blame Allah because Allah punish you after you punished yourself in making wrong choice:
"In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:10)
Reading small part of the Quran won't help you to understand it!!.

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All these are figment of the mind. If you want a Garden and beneath it flow rivers and shade to rest is all right on earth. Need not have to die and find one. You can find the same right here on earth. So, what is the big deal about something that you are not sure fo getting?
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by eastrun:
Allah said:
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."(Surah Al-Imran 3:164)
Read the verse, it explains, beside the Scripture, you have to follow the Wisdom.See the word INSTRUCTING.
Allah say to Muhammad:
"Have patience at what they say, and remember our servant David, the man of strength: for he ever turned (to Allah.."(Surah Saad 38:17)

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I asked you did Allah say create another book to interprete my Quran? That is the question you need to answer not some verse mentioned by so and so.

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by eastrun:
Then, you want to just let them do the wrongdoings and destroy themselves?.I wonder if your son do the same thing, will you just let them?.Will you call yourselves kepoci?.The reason they do that is to prevent the youngsters from commit the wrongdoing and prevent them from destroy themselves. Allah said:
"When some of them said: "Why do ye preach to a people whom Allah will destroy or visit with a terrible punishment?"- said the preachers:" To discharge our duty to your Lord, and perchance they may fear Him."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:164).
It just for reminder, after that Allah will decide:
"When they disregarded the warnings that had been given them, We rescued those who forbade Evil; but We visited the wrong-doers with a grievous punishment because they were given to transgression."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:165).
Explained!!.Alhamdulillah.

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My dear fellow, if that is the case you only need to advice Muslims who had sinned, no need to raid take photograp and charge them in court and then you come here to give verse 7:165. Isn't that a contardicting statement? The Quran says one thing and the hadith contradicts it. That is why I say it is a religion of confusion.
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by eastrun:
Well..changing the topic, I said, since you said that you are God, why don't you disperse the rezeki..if you are not believe that Allah who disperse the rezeki to those who He has chosen. Allah said:
"Allah enlarges the sustenance (which He gives) to whichever of His servants He pleases; and He (similarly) grants by (strict) measure, (as He pleases): for Allah has full knowledge of all things.."(Surah Al-Ankabut 29:62)

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That is a myth Muslims had been told to believe in. Reziki does not come from GOD but based on your actions. You sew the seed and you reap the harvest. Good you get good tidings, bad you get bad tidings. Simple to understand but why drag GOD into it? Let me give you a good example. Ahmad meets a woman who ask for help. She says a man had raped her and she needs his help to make a police report. Ahmad takes her to the police and helps her to make the police report and then helps her by sending her to her home. So Ahmad had done a good deed. Some years later his daughter was about to be raped and manage to escape with a help of a stranger. Now that is the return of good tidings which Ahmad had done some years later. In the next case Halim in the pretex of helping to give a lift to a woman takes her to a remote place and rapes her and warns her that if she reports the incident to police he will find and kill her. So now he thinks he has escaped a crime without paying for it. 15 years later he gets a call from the police that his daugher is admitted to hospital because someone found her lying on the road bleeding from waist down and is suspected to be rape victim.. Now this is what you call bad tidings that he is receiving for his evil work that he did some years back. Get the point. GOD is not in play here but the karma of each individual.
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by eastrun:
You are joking...because I never said the trumpet blew during the disaster.Furthermore, I was talking about the Day Of Judgement.
Regarding the time when the world will be destroyed,nobody knows only Allah.You can say 420,000 years later.but maybe it will happen next year etc. Nobody knows.

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Oh! Yes, we Hindus knew about it but its Muslims and others who do not know about it. You speak of something that you are not sure when it wiloccur but we can tell you when and how it will happen.
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by eastrun:
"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:187)
But...
"Verily, this is the Very Truth and Certainly.So celebrate with praises the name of thy Lord, the Supreme."(Sural Al-Waaqiah 56:95~96)

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Looks like your Allah himself does not know when the world would end. Why the secret? Man has to know if the end is coming so that he would repent but it seems Allah only keeps guessing and wants man to sin more and more and thatmy friend is the work of the Devil. The Devil would not want you to know when the end is coming because he wants you to sin as much as you want so that you will suffer more in your next life. This is the truth which Muslims fail to realize

salam03 · Post time 31-3-2007 08:13 PM

" Man has to know if the end is coming so that he would repent"

i dont buy that argument.....than it is better for you to know when you'll be die is'nt it... ahaks

barney50 · Post time 31-3-2007 08:16 PM

Reply #164 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
You see how cruel your faith is.You do the wrongdoings, and then you
make the next generations to pay back what you have done?.It just like,
you kill people, but your son will be punished?.In Islam, no such
practice. When you do wrong, you will suffer with what you have done,
not your generations because:
"Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not
avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall
compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from
outside)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:48)
You do the wrongdoings, you will pay for that yourself...unless you repent.
"Others (there are who) have acknowledged their wrong-doings:
they have mixed an act that was good with another that was evil.
Perhaps Allah will turn unto them (in Mercy): for Allah is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."(Surah At-Taubah 9:102).

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Is your son not your seed? It has to so that man will realize that the sin he commits will not be just him alone that would suffer but his seeds too. Only then would he have fear in his heart that his lived ones would pay the price for his evil ways. If a man loves his family would think twice before he commits a sin. Since Muslims do not believe such no wonder they are so free do commit sins. Which is more effective? Time to figure out.......
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by eastrun:
I repeat:
"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)

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Then leave them alone why bother? But it is not what Muslims do instead they think they can somehow compel others to believe what they believe. Again the Quran is in contradiction. Musims say something and do something else.
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[code] by eastrun:

You are not answering my question...show to me where in the holyQuran which was translated by different translators, saying that Allahis weak. You changed the topic already. No Muslims refer to Hadithfirst before go for Quran.Answer my question!![.[/cdoe]

What is there for me to answer ans you have answered my question. When comes to syariah laws Musims refer to the hadith instead of the Quran. Sometime they become so confused they argue among themselves who is right and who is wrong. We have seen such argument in the news report. Cases such as death of Muslim converts and cases where a convert wish to revert to his original religion. So, can you now see the many problems islam and Muslims face in their daily life?

salam03 · Post time 31-3-2007 08:22 PM

barney in the deep of confusion indeed..he is trying so hard to confuse,yet he is the one who confused...it is in our Pillars of Faith,you'll find that those confusion will be answered by itself....pity barney...

barney50 · Post time 1-4-2007 07:19 AM

salam03,

I feel sorry for you but what can I do if you want to believe something that is meaningless. Allah does not know when the end is coming but keeps saying it is soon. Well I too can guess. If he is a true GOD he would tell mankind when this world would end but looks like he is not because he is unable to tell when his creation of this would would come to an end. What judgement day is Allah talking about when he himself do not know when it is going to end. So, he had left Muslims is limbo. That is what I'm trying to point out to you.

eastrun · Post time 1-4-2007 11:44 AM

1)
So why worry if it is man's own freewill. Muslims seem to think they are the voice of Mohamemd and Allah. It is very obvious what the Quran says. May be you do not undertand the above verse. It says that Allah will never change the grace which he had given to mankind until they change what is in their souls. So, why would Allah worry or tell Mohammed to force the pagans to convert. Did he not tell Mohammed that his duty is only to depart the message and not anything else. But how come Muslims contradict by saying Mohamed told to do this and that saying Muslims must follow the sunnah of their prophet?

My answer:
In order to make someone change their souls,of course we have to tell them and preach them and by that they will think, which way is the best way for themselves. Even though to the bad peoples or Pagans. The intention of preaching is to give them reminder so that they will get back to the right path.

"When some of them said: "Why do ye preach to a people whom Allah will destroy or visit with a terrible punishment?"- said the preachers:" To discharge our duty to your Lord, and perchance they may fear Him."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:164)

Then, after they have rejected the reminder, then let Allah decide:

"When they disregarded the warnings that had been given them, We rescued those who forbade Evil; but We visited the wrong-doers with a grievous punishment because they were given to transgression."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:165)

Muhammad never FORCED the Pagans to convert Islam:

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge."(Surah At-Taubah 9:6)

Islam taught:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)

In Islam,

we have WAJIB, SUNAT, MAKRUH and HARAM, you find out these four before you go further.

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2)
So, you mean to say the Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhist are all praying to Satan? Is that what you mean? How do Muslims know that Allah is not Satan? Can you proof that Allah is not Satan in disguise?

My answer:
This is what happen when you claimed that have read the whole Book...I thought you already know there are many fake ways other than worshipping the Satan. For example:

Idol worshipping:

"(The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: They call but upon satan the persistent rebel!"(Surah An-Nisa 4:117)

"Out of what Allah hath produced in abundance in tilth and in cattle, they assigned Him a share: they say, according to their fancies: "This is for Allah, and this" - for our "partners"! but the share of their" partners "reacheth not Allah, whilst the share of Allah reacheth their "partners" ! evil (and unjust) is their assignment!"
(Surah Al-An'aan 6:136)

The conclusion, other than worshipping the One and Only Allah are the wrong paths and the wrong paths created by Satan:

"Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:257)

And the verse above already explained that Allah and Satan have two different characters, therefore they will be never be in one.

Allah remind:

"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:90)
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3)
All these are figment of the mind. If you want a Garden and beneath it flow rivers and shade to rest is all right on earth. Need not have to die and find one. You can find the same right here on earth. So, what is the big deal about something that you are not sure fo getting?

My answer:
My goodness... that is all are PARABLE of heavens:

"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!- beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of Unbelievers in the Fire."(Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35)

How the real heavens look like, only Allah knows, because Muhammad said:

"The heavens never seen by the eyes, heard by the ears and thought by the brain"

Allah knows best
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4)
I asked you did Allah say create another book to interprete my Quran? That is the question you need to answer not some verse mentioned by so and so.

My answer:

That was not your original question, you asked whether Allah asked the Muslims to follow the hadith or not and the verse above totally explained the questions because Allah sent Wisdom beside sent down a scripture.

Allah said He sent Muhammad to EXPLAIN also:

"O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:19)

So, the hadith is considerable.
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5)
My dear fellow, if that is the case you only need to advice Muslims who had sinned, no need to raid take photograp and charge them in court and then you come here to give verse 7:165. Isn't that a contardicting statement? The Quran says one thing and the hadith contradicts it. That is why I say it is a religion of confusion.

My answer:
Why in this case, you blamed Syariah Court?Why don't blame the Police too?. They also do even worst to the wrongdoers..without giving them chance to repent.

Another example:

If your son commit adultery, and that 'memalukan' keluarga you.Will you just stand still?.Automatically you will beat your son for his wrongdoing because you never taught your son to act that. I wonder if in that situation, you can still stand calm and talk to your son as usual.So, this shows, in order to make your son realize what he has done is wrong, you beat him. You won't talk softly because he already memalukan you!.

You made yourself confused. I told you look at the Quran and then go to other sources, but you go to the sources before go the Quran.That's why until now you cannot understand.

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7)

My answer:
Regarding the rezeki...to those who do bad deeds, Allah will give him terrible life:

"But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment."(Surah Thaha 20:124)

Those who do good deeds Allah will reward he/she with good rezeki. It's no myth and it's happened.

If we are the one who manage our own rezeki, then tell me why there are peoples outside there that are very kind, work very hard, but still fail to get what he/she desired?!!
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8)
Oh! Yes, we Hindus knew about it but its Muslims and others who do not know about it. You speak of something that you are not sure when it wiloccur but we can tell you when and how it will happen.

My answer:
Huh!. Did I speak that something I am not sure?.You spoke that the world will be destroyed 420000 years later, which at that time you already died and cannot confirm whether it will happen at that time or not..So, the logic answer is:

"Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur."

[ Last edited by eastrun at 1-4-2007 12:20 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 1-4-2007 12:14 PM

9)
Looks like your Allah himself does not know when the world would end. Why the secret? Man has to know if the end is coming so that he would repent but it seems Allah only keeps guessing and wants man to sin more and more and thatmy friend is the work of the Devil. The Devil would not want you to know when the end is coming because he wants you to sin as much as you want so that you will suffer more in your next life. This is the truth which Muslims fail to realize

My answer:
Then, ask yourself.Do you know when you will going to die?.Of course no. Why don't your scriptures tell you when are you going to die?.So, can I call your scripture created by Devil?.

So, same thing for the Day Of Judgement Day.The reason Allah kept it as secret, is He wants us to remember to repent always.And ask Him forgiveness always.InsyaAllah.Because like death, the day of Judgement comes without giving you clear sign.

Since you expected that the world will be destroyed another 420000 years, so will you only repent at the last minute?.Well at that time, you already died, my friend.Stop dreaming.

"Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous."(Surah AN-Nisa' 4:18)
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10)
Is your son not your seed? It has to so that man will realize that the sin he commits will not be just him alone that would suffer but his seeds too. Only then would he have fear in his heart that his lived ones would pay the price for his evil ways. If a man loves his family would think twice before he commits a sin. Since Muslims do not believe such no wonder they are so free do commit sins. Which is more effective? Time to figure out.......

My answer:
The son of course my seed.But when I do wrongdoing, I am not blaming my son.Because what I am doing is what I have desired to do and it is nothing to do with my son.The Karma is cruel because you want others to be blamed for what you have done.

Islam teaches to leave the wrongdoings as a whole, because the root cause is the wrongdoing:

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger.s duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:92)

Simple!.
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11)
Then leave them alone why bother? But it is not what Muslims do instead they think they can somehow compel others to believe what they believe. Again the Quran is in contradiction. Musims say something and do something else.

My answer:
You are wrong, Allah said:

"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance."(Surah An-Nahl 16:125)

and no FORCE:

"And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah. nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots."(Surah An-Nahl 16:127)
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12)
What is there for me to answer ans you have answered my question. When comes to syariah laws Musims refer to the hadith instead of the Quran. Sometime they become so confused they argue among themselves who is right and who is wrong. We have seen such argument in the news report. Cases such as death of Muslim converts and cases where a convert wish to revert to his original religion. So, can you now see the many problems islam and Muslims face in their daily life?

My answer:
At last...Barney failed to answer my question.Hmm...the researcher failed.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 1-4-2007 12:16 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 1-4-2007 02:00 PM

Reply #170 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
In order to make someone change their souls,of course we have to
tell them and preach them and by that they will think, which way is the
best way for themselves. Even though to the bad peoples or Pagans. The
intention of preaching is to give them reminder so that they will get
back to the right path.
"When some of them said: "Why do ye preach to a people whom Allah
will destroy or visit with a terrible punishment?"- said the
preachers:" To discharge our duty to your Lord, and perchance they may
fear Him."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:164)

Copy the Code

Yeh! Preaching is one thing but forcing is another. It was through war that the pagans of Mecca lost and had to submit to the warth of Mohammed and his men. You fail to see this but trying to butter and apply honey as though it was all sweet that the pagans accepted the new religion with any risistant. Please! You are making a mockery of the truth.

Then, after they have rejected the reminder, then let Allah decide:
"When they disregarded the warnings that had been given them, We
rescued those who forbade Evil; but We visited the wrong-doers with a
grievous punishment because they were given to transgression."(Surah Al-A'raaf 7:165)

Copy the Code

So here it is Allah who decided but the bigots of Islam who used their sword to force the pagans to convert. What kind of a religion is this that uses force and then say Allah has given freewil to man. Too many contradiction and lies in the hadith and Quran.

Muhammad never FORCED the Pagans to convert Islam:
"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him,
so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he
can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge."(Surah At-Taubah 9:6)
Islam taught:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear
from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the
most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and
knoweth all things."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)
In Islam,
we have WAJIB, SUNAT, MAKRUH and HARAM, you find out these four before you go further.

Copy the Code

These verses are to con the ignorant people who did not know the actual truth about the beginning of Islam. Blood was spilled of innocent people who refused to accept Mohammed's religion. Islam was born of blood shed and not by humble preaching. You are lying here because the above verse is a misleading and does not show the true picture of Islamic conquest.

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by eastrun:
This is what happen when you claimed that have read the whole
Book...I thought you already know there are many fake ways other than
worshipping the Satan. For example:
Idol worshipping:
"(The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: They call but upon satan the persistent rebel!"(Surah An-Nisa 4:117)
"Out of what Allah hath produced in abundance in tilth and in
cattle, they assigned Him a share: they say, according to their
fancies: "This is for Allah, and this" - for our "partners"! but the
share of their" partners "reacheth not Allah, whilst the share of Allah
reacheth their "partners" ! evil (and unjust) is their assignment!"
(Surah Al-An'aan 6:136)

Copy the Code

This is what I call rekaan. It may or may not apply to the era of pagan worship in Mecca and around the region. May be these pagans of Mecca did not have any scriptures. But have scriptures far greater then what you call yours as the holiest of the holiest. You do not have the slightest idea nor have you ever in your life read any such but mere listen to your Muslims preachings and come here to calim all other are satan. As I have said earlier if satan is what we believ in then it would satan that would be mentioned in our scriptures. Do you know what we call satan in our scriptures? It is known as Asura or being with evil power. We can differentiate with Evil and Good. We were far mnore advanced in this aspect while Muslims knew about evil only 1400 years ago. All the while Mohammed did no the difference between Evil and Good until he learned of the Jewish and Christian faith. So, your are trying to teach the duck to swim.

by eastrun:
The conclusion, other than worshipping the One and Only Allah are the wrong paths and the wrong paths created by Satan:
"Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths
of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject
faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them
forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire,
to dwell therein (For ever)."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:257)
And the verse above already explained that Allah and Satan have two
different characters, therefore they will be never be in one.

Copy the Code

That is the opinion of Islam but not us. To us GOD can be with or without form. GOD can expand to one, two or three and who are we to question HIS power of expansion. To us those who wish to believe GOD is one we let it be and to those who believe GOD is three in one is also acceptable. The approach may differ in may ways but the aim is one and that is believe in the TRUTH which say GOD the creator is All knowing, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. He is loving and show compassion to His creatures. He does not punish nor curse you to hell fire as believed by Muslims or Christians or Jews. So, all your calim about Allah this and Allah that are composotion of the Arab Muslims to put fear in the heart of their people so that they would comply to all their whimps and fancies. Only those without thinking power would subscribe to such a belief.

Allah remind:
"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of)
stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's
handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:90)

Copy the Code

No religion of GOD would encourage gambling nor intoxication. These are desire of individual beings which GOD forbids. So, please do not think only islam preach such but I think all major religions ahd said it long before Islam.
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sambung.....

barney50 · Post time 1-4-2007 02:01 PM

by eastrun:
My goodness... that is all are PARABLE of heavens:
"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!-
beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the
shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of
Unbelievers in the Fire."(Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35)
How the real heavens look like, only Allah knows, because Muhammad said:
"The heavens never seen by the eyes, heard by the ears and thought by the brain"
Allah knows best

Copy the Code

So, that is why I say figment of the mind. I'm not wrong when I saysuch. Even if Muslims believ it to be real then they are wrong becausesuch can be found right here on earth. No need to die by sucide toattain it.
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y eastrun:
That was not your original question, you asked whether Allah asked
the Muslims to follow the hadith or not and the verse above totally
explained the questions because Allah sent Wisdom beside sent down a
scripture.
Allah said He sent Muhammad to EXPLAIN also:
"O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you,
Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye
should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no
warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad
tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:19)
So, the hadith is considerable.

Copy the Code

No, there is no such verse but you are saying something else. So mewhere the Quran says you must refer to another book in order tounderstand the Quran. If you cannot then please admit that these arework of the relgious bigots.
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by eastrun:
Why in this case, you blamed Syariah Court?Why don't blame the
Police too?. They also do even worst to the wrongdoers..without giving
them chance to repent.
Another example:
If your son commit adultery, and that 'memalukan' keluarga you.Will
you just stand still?.Automatically you will beat your son for his
wrongdoing because you never taught your son to act that. I wonder if
in that situation, you can still stand calm and talk to your son as
usual.So, this shows, in order to make your son realize what he has
done is wrong, you beat him. You won't talk softly because he already
memalukan you!.
You made yourself confused. I told you look at the Quran and then go
to other sources, but you go to the sources before go the Quran.That's
why until now you cannot understand.

Copy the Code

You are trying to twist the facts stated my me. You consider theQuran as a divne inspiration and yet make contradiction. The law of thecountry is for all irespective of religious belief. The secular lawdoes not say that you will be judged by GOD and then would be punishedaccording to your grade. The law is clear on this aspect. If it says 6months imprisonment for stealing then it is as what as been written bythe penal code. But Islamic law is bias and confusing. First it saysGOD has given man the freedom to chose then it says no you must adhereto GOD's comand and surrender to him otherwise you'd burn in hellfire.If you have sinned you'd be judged on lthe final day and punishmentwould be hellfire. But the syariah says you would be stoned to death orwhipped a 100 lash. What nonsense is this? Either he is punished hereand forgiven for his sins or let him be and let GOD judge him on thelast day as believed by Muslims. We have the civil and criminal laws totake care of other matters.

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by eastrun:
Regarding the rezeki...to those who do bad deeds, Allah will give him terrible life:
"But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment."(Surah Thaha 20:124)
Those who do good deeds Allah will reward he/she with good rezeki. It's no myth and it's happened.
If we are the one who manage our own rezeki, then tell me why there
are peoples outside there that are very kind, work very hard, but still
fail to get what he/she desired?!!

Copy the Code

That is the point I've been driving into your hear. That is becauseof his past karma. Even though you are good here now but you cannotescape the past and so with all your good deeds still you need to payfor your previous sins. But when your karma is exhausted then in yournext life you would enjoy the goodness of what you did before yourdeath in this life. Can you understand?
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by eastrun:
Huh!. Did I speak that something I am not sure?.You spoke that the
world will be destroyed 420000 years later, which at that time you
already died and cannot confirm whether it will happen at that time or
not..So, the logic answer is:
"Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur."

Copy the Code

Come on lah it is the same with your claims. No one knows of heavanor hell but you are told to believe there is such world in thehereafter. We are not worried about the end as we know it would be pastus so why worry about it now. It is here that we have to worry. Worryif you are doing right to your family, to your parents and to yourneighbours. Worry what you need to do inoder to secure you familieswell being because your life is uncertain. These are the things a manhas to think about instead of think about the hearafter. The hereafteris too far away ans you would not be here to wittness nor know of itsconsequences. It is right here that you need to think and work for thebetterment of your life, family and friends. That is the most logicalthing to do then smoe silly idea that does not confim.

barney50 · Post time 1-4-2007 02:25 PM

Reply #171 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
Then, ask yourself.Do you know when you will going to die?.Of course
no. Why don't your scriptures tell you when are you going to die?.So,
can I call your scripture created by Devil?.
So, same thing for the Day Of Judgement Day.The reason Allah kept it
as secret, is He wants us to remember to repent always.And ask Him
forgiveness always.InsyaAllah.Because like death, the day of Judgement
comes without giving you clear sign.[code]
[b]Hello! My dear ignorant friend I know when my death is coming. My death is on my 71st birthday and also know the time of my deatha and the cause of death. But it is a pity that Islam is ignorant of this secret. Knowing this truth is secret imparted by the great sages. No, it is not clear sign but the truth is your Allah does not know of the end and so made it like great secret. Life is to be discovered and explored not be an ignorant and just believe something that is unpredictable. That is why we have our brain that is much superior to other creatures. Animals cannot know if they have and remove a tumor it but it is man who with his brain discovered there such disease exist and found ways to treat and remove it. Use your brain to think and rationalize instead of talking nonsense.[/b]
[code]Since you expected that the world will be destroyed another 420000
years, so will you only repent at the last minute?.Well at that time,
you already died, my friend.Stop dreaming.
"Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil,
until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented
indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We
prepared a punishment most grievous."(Surah AN-Nisa' 4:18)

Copy the Code

Again you are showing your stupidity here. I have already said about repenting. The karma of man. You see the suffering of other so thatyou would repent as stated in the sastras that what you sew you reap. A lesson to learn to repent is by seeing the suffering of others and ask question why is he suffering so that it will show you a path to repent. You are so ignorant of such simple fact. I pity you for being such an ignorant being and its a pity that your religion had put you inot darkness.
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by eastrun:
The son of course my seed.But when I do wrongdoing, I am not
blaming my son.Because what I am doing is what I have desired to do and
it is nothing to do with my son.The Karma is cruel because you want
others to be blamed for what you have done.
Islam teaches to leave the wrongdoings as a whole, because the root cause is the wrongdoing:
"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye
do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger.s duty to proclaim (the
message) in the clearest manner."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:92)
Simple!.

Copy the Code

So, you forgetting the original sin? Where did it come from? Does not your action shows in your son's well being. If you are a rouge do you think the society would prasie your son? Surely the society would say ah! this is the son of the rouge father and where ever you go you'll be branded as a rouge's son. Does not you sin follow your son? Use you r brainlah instead of being so stupid to understand such simple example.
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by eastrun:
You are wrong, Allah said:
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful
preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious:
for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who
receive guidance."(Surah An-Nahl 16:125)
and no FORCE:
"And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah. nor
grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots."(Surah An-Nahl 16:127)

Copy the Code

I have given my view over this in the first part so I don't have to repeat.
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by eastrun:
At last...Barney failed to answer my question.Hmm...the researcher failed.

Copy the Code

So you make your own assumption that I failed but in reality you have failed to convience me that your religion is of divine birth. You failed mirserably and I pity you. But all is not lost as you still have time to gain knowledge and wisdom by learning from others.

eastrun · Post time 2-4-2007 08:31 PM

1)
Yeh! Preaching is one thing but forcing is another. It was through war that the pagans of Mecca lost and had to submit to the warth of Mohammed and his men. You fail to see this but trying to butter and apply honey as though it was all sweet that the pagans accepted the new religion with any risistant. Please! You are making a mockery of the truth.

My answer:

All these while I revealed to you that there is no compulsion in religion for Islam.And you keep saying Muhammad forced them.Who says?.Islam said?.Quran said?.Come on la,the truth revealed already.No force in Islam and Muhammad himself never forced the Pagans. You act like a person who doesn't know anything.The war started when the Pagans against the agreement.Muhammad never created the war, but Pagans did.

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2)
So here it is Allah who decided but the bigots of Islam who used their sword to force the pagans to convert. What kind of a religion is this that uses force and then say Allah has given freewil to man. Too many contradiction and lies in the hadith and Quran.

My answer:
Hahaha..a short verse I revealed, also hard for you too understand.Is this what you called a researcher?.I don't see in the verse word 'sword' and i don't see in the verse got the word 'force'.Maybe you need to buy new sunglasses.What kind of researcher is this?.A short verse and fact also hard to understand. How do you know the Quran got contradictions?.Huh!!.Just read small parts of the scripture then you made a conclusion.

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3)
These verses are to con the ignorant people who did not know the actual truth about the beginning of Islam. Blood was spilled of innocent people who refused to accept Mohammed's religion. Islam was born of blood shed and not by humble preaching. You are lying here because the above verse is a misleading and does not show the true picture of Islamic conquest.

My answer:
Ok, if you say that Islam spread because of sword, then show me in the Holy Quran saying that Muhammad spread the Islam by sword.If you can, find it in the Bible too...since the Bible came before Quran, so maybe it got prophecy Muhammad will spread a religion with sword..Or if possible, show me from your scriptures since your so-called scriptures came thousands years before us.
Islam is peaceful religion.Only a fool makes it looks dangerous.And an obvious fool here is YOU!.

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4)
This is what I call rekaan. It may or may not apply to the era of pagan worship in Mecca and around the region. May be these pagans of Mecca did not have any scriptures. But have scriptures far greater then what you call yours as the holiest of the holiest. You do not have the slightest idea nor have you ever in your life read any such but mere listen to your Muslims preachings and come here to calim all other are satan. As I have said earlier if satan is what we believ in then it would satan that would be mentioned in our scriptures. Do you know what we call satan in our scriptures? It is known as Asura or being with evil power. We can differentiate with Evil and Good. We were far mnore advanced in this aspect while Muslims knew about evil only 1400 years ago. All the while Mohammed did no the difference between Evil and Good until he learned of the Jewish and Christian faith. So, your are trying to teach the duck to swim.

My answer:
Need me to repeat?. I have NO WORRY when your scripture got such thing, because Allah did sent same messages to other prophets which came after before Muhammad.So, Allah already told above the evil.

You think only Islam rejected the idol worship?.Ask the Christians, do they accept such practice?.Yes!, you got the commands from God about evil long before Islam.Unfortunately, even so, God sent long before us, but you still follow the evil, by creating partner beside Him and only ISLAM praise the Lord STRICTLY and DIRECTLY!.
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5)
That is the opinion of Islam but not us. To us GOD can be with or without form. GOD can expand to one, two or three and who are we to question HIS power of expansion. To us those who wish to believe GOD is one we let it be and to those who believe GOD is three in one is also acceptable. The approach may differ in may ways but the aim is one and that is believe in the TRUTH which say GOD the creator is All knowing, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. He is loving and show compassion to His creatures. He does not punish nor curse you to hell fire as believed by Muslims or Christians or Jews. So, all your calim about Allah this and Allah that are composotion of the Arab Muslims to put fear in the heart of their people so that they would comply to all their whimps and fancies. Only those without thinking power would subscribe to such a belief.

My answer:
Yes...that is the opinion of Islam about God...Got problem about that?.

Since you believe that He is able to do everything He wants, then why are you questioning Him, when He set the hellfire for those who rejected faith and gave the heavens to the righteous?.Why are you question Him when He punish His servants when they against Him?.All these show that He is Almighty.

If He is cruel, He won't give you air to breath, Clothes to wear, water to drink, food to eat and etc.Even, you against Him, still He gives you His mercy so that you will realize and worship Him until the day you die. After that, when He punish you, blame yourself, because you rejected Him.
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6)
No religion of GOD would encourage gambling nor intoxication. These are desire of individual beings which GOD forbids. So, please do not think only islam preach such but I think all major religions ahd said it long before Islam.

My answer:
Really?.Unfortunately,Islam strictly forbids those.By the way, I was trying to show you that is one of the ways of Satan, in the eyes of Islam.
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sAMBUNG...

barney50 · Post time 2-4-2007 09:18 PM

Reply #175 eastruns post

by eastrun:
All these while I revealed to you that there is no compulsion in
religion for Islam.And you keep saying Muhammad forced them.Who
says?.Islam said?.Quran said?.Come on la,the truth revealed already.No
force in Islam and Muhammad himself never forced the Pagans. You act
like a person who doesn't know anything.The war started when the Pagans
against the agreement.Muhammad never created the war, but Pagans did.

Copy the Code

You hadith sahih Muslim says so:

"It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira who said: We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (God's Message to us). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this (i.e. you should admit that God's Message has been communicated to you), accept Islam and you would be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (Allah's Message). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this ... He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he added: You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I wish that I should expel you from this land. Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind)".
Sahih Muslim vol 3, p.963, or chapter DCCXXIII and vers 4363.

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by eastrun:
Hahaha..a short verse I revealed, also hard for you too understand.Is
this what you called a researcher?.I don't see in the verse word
'sword' and i don't see in the verse got the word 'force'.Maybe you
need to buy new sunglasses.What kind of researcher is this?.A short
verse and fact also hard to understand. How do you know the Quran got
contradictions?.Huh!!.Just read small parts of the scripture then you
made a conclusion.

Copy the Code

It has been proven but it is Muslims like you who refuse to accept the truth. I say the crow is black and yo say the crow is white but the the whole world knows the crow is black. Period!

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:
Ok, if you say that Islam spread because of sword, then show me in the
Holy Quran saying that Muhammad spread the Islam by sword.If you can,
find it in the Bible too...since the Bible came before Quran, so maybe
it got prophecy Muhammad will spread a religion with sword..Or if
possible, show me from your scriptures since your so-called scriptures
came thousands years before us.
Islam is peaceful religion.Only a fool makes it looks dangerous.And an obvious fool here is YOU!.

Copy the Code

Why are you talking about the bible. The bible mentions no name of Mohammed. It was coined by Mohammed to mislead the pagans of Mecca. Go and read the Christian bible and tell me if you can find any prophecy on the coming of a religion called Islam or a prophet caleld Mohammed. If you can proof that then I will believe that iIslam is a true religion of GOD. Please don't not come here with the Islamic version which is a doctrated version as they also say the Hindu purans had mentioned about the coming of Islam and Mohamemd. All these are worlk of Islamic propagation and to me they are bull#.

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:
Need me to repeat?. I have NO WORRY when your scripture got such thing,
because Allah did sent same messages to other prophets which came after
before Muhammad.So, Allah already told above the evil.
You think only Islam rejected the idol worship?.Ask the Christians, do
they accept such practice?.Yes!, you got the commands from God about
evil long before Islam.Unfortunately, even so, God sent long before us,
but you still follow the evil, by creating partner beside Him and only
ISLAM praise the Lord STRICTLY and DIRECTLY!.

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That is what you believe and are told to believe. What makes you think Allah is GOD? Just becuase the Quran says Allah is the creator of the universe? May be Allah is another name for Satan and Mohammed believed he was GOD the creator? It is Satan that would not want to associate himself with any other because Satan is the lord of darkness and he alone holds the power and do not wish to share his roile with others. Did you think about that? Talking is easy becuase that is how you have been trained but if you think otherwise the whole senario changes. So, everybody in this world who are believers believe so because of FAITH. It is faith that keeps them going and it is Faith that holds their belief. remember that.
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by eastrun:
Yes...that is the opinion of Islam about God...Got problem about that?.
Since you believe that He is able to do everything He wants, then why
are you questioning Him, when He set the hellfire for those who
rejected faith and gave the heavens to the righteous?.Why are you
question Him when He punish His servants when they against Him?.All
these show that He is Almighty.
If He is cruel, He won't give you air to breath, Clothes to wear, water
to drink, food to eat and etc.Even, you against Him, still He gives you
His mercy so that you will realize and worship Him until the day you
die. After that, when He punish you, blame yourself, because you
rejected Him.

Copy the Code

I argue on that because Muslims refuse believe GOD can take manifestation. If you do not believe so why should I believe in hellfire? It works both ways. You refuse to believe in our way then why should I believe in your way?
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by eastrun:
Really?.Unfortunately,Islam strictly forbids those.By the way, I was
trying to show you that is one of the ways of Satan, in the eyes of
Islam.

Copy the Code

And so is in ours too. So, what is your problem?

eastrun · Post time 2-4-2007 09:25 PM

8)
So, that is why I say figment of the mind. I'm not wrong when I saysuch. Even if Muslims believ it to be real then they are wrong becausesuch can be found right here on earth. No need to die by sucide toattain it.

My answer:
Figment of the mind?...Ok, acceptable, but when you say the Muslims want to get there by suicide?.I am sorry, you are wrong. But at least, in Islam, the souls will get where they should go, not roaming around...nowhere to go.

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9)
No, there is no such verse but you are saying something else. So mewhere the Quran says you must refer to another book in order tounderstand the Quran. If you cannot then please admit that these arework of the relgious bigots.

My answer:
Don't believe me?.Then open the Holy Quran yourself.As for the Muslims, we know the verse is in our scripture.Well..maybe you overlooked it.Allah gave you chance to see the verse.Alhamdulillah. Muhammad was there to make things clear other than brought the scripture from Allah.Please don't make conclusion before you read the whole Quran, I said!.
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10)
You are trying to twist the facts stated my me. You consider theQuran as a divne inspiration and yet make contradiction. The law of thecountry is for all irespective of religious belief. The secular lawdoes not say that you will be judged by GOD and then would be punishedaccording to your grade. The law is clear on this aspect. If it says 6months imprisonment for stealing then it is as what as been written bythe penal code. But Islamic law is bias and confusing. First it saysGOD has given man the freedom to chose then it says no you must adhereto GOD's comand and surrender to him otherwise you'd burn in hellfire.If you have sinned you'd be judged on lthe final day and punishmentwould be hellfire. But the syariah says you would be stoned to death orwhipped a 100 lash. What nonsense is this? Either he is punished hereand forgiven for his sins or let him be and let GOD judge him on thelast day as believed by Muslims. We have the civil and criminal laws totake care of other matters.

My answer:
The punishments on earth is to control the human from commit bad things.And as reminders for human. That is laws of Allah. Allah said why He gave such punishments on earth:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"(Surah Al- Maidah 5:33)

The laws are the punishments on earth. so human will repent and realize that the bad things are never been blessed by Him.That is the disgrace in this world for wrongdoers.On the Day of Judgement, Allah will give heavier punishment, when they are not repent.

"Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:34)
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11)
That is the point I've been driving into your hear. That is becauseof his past karma. Even though you are good here now but you cannotescape the past and so with all your good deeds still you need to payfor your previous sins. But when your karma is exhausted then in yournext life you would enjoy the goodness of what you did before yourdeath in this life. Can you understand?

My answer:
Then what is the different with the day of Judgement and the law of Allah?.

"Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside)"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:48)

All you get from Allah is because of what you have done!.
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12)
Come on lah it is the same with your claims. No one knows of heavanor hell but you are told to believe there is such world in thehereafter. We are not worried about the end as we know it would be pastus so why worry about it now. It is here that we have to worry. Worryif you are doing right to your family, to your parents and to yourneighbours. Worry what you need to do inoder to secure you familieswell being because your life is uncertain. These are the things a manhas to think about instead of think about the hearafter. The hereafteris too far away ans you would not be here to wittness nor know of itsconsequences. It is right here that you need to think and work for thebetterment of your life, family and friends. That is the most logicalthing to do then smoe silly idea that does not confim.

My answer:
See...you misunderstood about Islam.See the verse below which explains all you have misuderstood in one shot:

"But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee, the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world: but do thou good, as Allah has been good to thee, and seek not (occasions for) mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief."(Surah Al-Qasas 28:77)

You have to think both.You don't know whether the Day of Judgement is near or not, but at the same time, you have to work to live on earth.Never Islam asked you to just praying and praying...non-stop.
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13)
Again you are showing your stupidity here. I have already said about repenting. The karma of man. You see the suffering of other so thatyou would repent as stated in the sastras that what you sew you reap. A lesson to learn to repent is by seeing the suffering of others and ask question why is he suffering so that it will show you a path to repent. You are so ignorant of such simple fact. I pity you for being such an ignorant being and its a pity that your religion had put you inot darkness.

My answer:
Did I argued you about the repent?.I argued with you about why Allah kept the day of Judgement as secret.Then who is stupid?.You la..out of topic.See..always forget about something you yourself raised!.Kalau dah bodoh tu, tetaplah bodoh!.
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14)
Hello! My dear ignorant friend I know when my death is coming. My death is on my 71st birthday and also know the time of my deatha and the cause of death. But it is a pity that Islam is ignorant of this secret. Knowing this truth is secret imparted by the great sages. No, it is not clear sign but the truth is your Allah does not know of the end and so made it like great secret. Life is to be discovered and explored not be an ignorant and just believe something that is unpredictable. That is why we have our brain that is much superior to other creatures. Animals cannot know if they have and remove a tumor it but it is man who with his brain discovered there such disease exist and found ways to treat and remove it. Use your brain to think and rationalize instead of talking nonsense.

My answer:
That is just a prophecy, you also doesn't know whether you will die on that age or not.It makes you dreaming. Like I said before, the reason Allah kept the death and the Day of Judgement as secret, to make us beware always. And remember Him always.Since it is just a prophecy, you are welcome to do the last minute repentance.I am afraid that you will die before the 71st birthday.I am sorry for that.

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15)
So, you forgetting the original sin? Where did it come from? Does not your action shows in your son's well being. If you are a rouge do you think the society would prasie your son? Surely the society would say ah! this is the son of the rouge father and where ever you go you'll be branded as a rouge's son. Does not you sin follow your son? Use you r brainlah instead of being so stupid to understand such simple example.

My answer:
Which original sins you referred to?.

About the situation above, It is an evil!.And Islam against that.Unfortunately your Karma pours the oil in the fire. Unfortunately your religion not against that.Is that what you called the true religion?. When you do wrong, you should be punished, not your son.Use your brain. Don't blame others for your failure.You should against such idea!.
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16)
I have given my view over this in the first part so I don't have to repeat.

My answer:
Alhamdulillah...at last you know that Islam is not forcing.
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17)
So you make your own assumption that I failed but in reality you have failed to convience me that your religion is of divine birth. You failed mirserably and I pity you. But all is not lost as you still have time to gain knowledge and wisdom by learning from others

My answer:
Aik?.Still not able to answer.Show me..the verses that you said talking about different things caused by different translators.I don't mind if I failed to convince you.At least I have chance to show something that you have overlooked about my religion.And at least I have given a chance to reveal all lies brought by you about Islam.
That is my pleasure!.

But...let's back to the topic.Show me the verse where the Quran says Allah is WEAK!.You failed...

eastrun · Post time 2-4-2007 09:50 PM

1) You hadith sahih Muslim says so:

"It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira who said: We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (God's Message to us). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this (i.e. you should admit that God's Message has been communicated to you), accept Islam and you would be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (Allah's Message). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this ... He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he added: You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I wish that I should expel you from this land. Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind)".
Sahih Muslim vol 3, p.963, or chapter DCCXXIII and vers 4363.

My answer:
But did he expelled the Jews from the land?.The answer is NO!.
Then, how can you say he forced the Jews?.

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2)
It has been proven but it is Muslims like you who refuse to accept the truth. I say the crow is black and yo say the crow is white but the the whole world knows the crow is black. Perio

My answer:
Just confess that you are not able to proof that.The world say that upon Islam because they are not reading the scripture.Same like you..who read small parts of the scripture.And made a conclusion which revealed your stupidity
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3)
Why are you talking about the bible. The bible mentions no name of Mohammed. It was coined by Mohammed to mislead the pagans of Mecca. Go and read the Christian bible and tell me if you can find any prophecy on the coming of a religion called Islam or a prophet caleld Mohammed. If you can proof that then I will believe that iIslam is a true religion of GOD. Please don't not come here with the Islamic version which is a doctrated version as they also say the Hindu purans had mentioned about the coming of Islam and Mohamemd. All these are worlk of Islamic propagation and to me they are bull#

My answer:
Aik..What was the original topic.Good!.At least you realiized that Muhammad never been said by any scripture on earth that he would spread the religion by sword.Either the Bible or the Vedas.So, don't make such accuses when your scriptures failed to say Muhammad will do all these.Don't blame Islam for that because Islam, Muhammad and Allah never taught about that.Please don't come here and act like a clever Hindu that knows everything about Islam.You don't.All you said out from what Islam had taught!.
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4)
That is what you believe and are told to believe. What makes you think Allah is GOD? Just becuase the Quran says Allah is the creator of the universe? May be Allah is another name for Satan and Mohammed believed he was GOD the creator? It is Satan that would not want to associate himself with any other because Satan is the lord of darkness and he alone holds the power and do not wish to share his roile with others. Did you think about that? Talking is easy becuase that is how you have been trained but if you think otherwise the whole senario changes. So, everybody in this world who are believers believe so because of FAITH.  It is faith that keeps them going and it is Faith that holds their belief. remember that.

My answer:
Faith without evidences is meaningless. And Faith because insulting other religion also meaningless..That's the answer.Think about that!.

By the way, in any religion on earth.No religion will mix the evil with the good deeds, God with Satan, believers with unbelievers.So, how can you put God on that level...same with the SATAN?..I wonder if your religion taught that.Read the Scriptures...not only the Holy Quran,but the Holy Bible,the Psalms...never once God was put on the same level of Satan.
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5)
I argue on that because Muslims refuse believe GOD can take  manifestation. If you do not believe so why should I believe in hellfire? It works both ways. You refuse to believe in our way then why should I believe in your way?

My answer:
Manifest on what?.Did I forced you to believe.My goodness...this old man really failed in understand something.Four books confirming these, pakcik!.
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6)
And so is in ours too. So, what is your problem?

My answer:
No problem...Like I said..Allah sent part of His knowledge to the previous scriptures.Only you make that as a threat.

[ Last edited by  eastrun at 3-4-2007 06:11 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 3-4-2007 06:36 PM

Reply #177 eastrun's post:

: Figment of the mind?...Ok, acceptable, but when you say the Muslims want to get there by suicide?.I am sorry, you are wrong. But at least, in Islam, the souls will get where they should go, not roaming around...nowhere to go.

Copy the Code

Now this more like it. You accept that it is figment of their mind. Well, that is what their Ullamas had thought them. They had been told that if they fight in the cause of Allah by sucide bombing they would get the grace of Allah and would be send to paradise then any others. The souls that roam aboud are the ones whose time has yet to come from leaving earth. Have you not had experience of ghost [the spirit of dead people]? Do not pretend because the Malays are more prone to be possessed by these ghost whose life had been taken off suddenly such as accident, murder and sucide. You need to learn from experience masters then half baked ullamas.

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: Don't believe me?.Then open the Holy Quran yourself.As for the Muslims, we know the verse is in our scripture.Well..maybe you overlooked it.Allah gave you chance to see the verse.Alhamdulillah. Muhammad was there to make things clear other than brought the scripture from Allah.Please don't make conclusion before you read the whole Quran, I said!.

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I asked you to show me the verse where Allah says "beside my Quran Muslims should refere to anotherr book call the hadith to understand my Quran". That is al I ask of you.

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: The punishments on earth is to control the human from commit bad things.And as reminders for human. That is laws of Allah. Allah said why He gave such punishments on earth: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"(Surah Al- Maidah 5:33)

Copy the Code

Makes no sense. What God is Allah? He says punish the wrong doers who go against Islam and the he would again punish them in the hereafter. Now that is the most stupidest thing in Islam. First it says freewill then it says obey or you'll be punished with such severe punishment here then he wil burn you in hell fire. It is now very clear that with such threat Mohammed had manage to subdue and controlled the minds of his followers by these punishment here and the hereafter. This is phychology on the mind. He had played into the mind of his follewers and silly Musims did not know of his motif. I feel sorry for them. Now they have become mindless zombies who would act on the slightest click of fingers. No wonder you see even kids are used in their champaign against non Muslims. I see them picking up stones and throwing at soldiers. Looks like their future is uncertain by such behaviour.

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The laws are the punishments on earth. so human will repent and realize that the bad things are never been blessed by Him.That is the disgrace in this world for wrongdoers.On the Day of Judgement, Allah will give heavier punishment, when they are not repent. "Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."(Surah Al-Maidah 5:34)

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What laws? A courting couple holding hand and walking is sin? As long as they do not srtip naked in the public and have a go how could that be a sin? The most Merciful and forgiving does not fit into verse 5:33. So, it is lie to delude the followers of Islam. For those who break the law of the country have punishment under the penal code and the judge would not say after this punishment when you die GOD will punish you again.

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: Then what is the different with the day of Judgement and the law of Allah?. "Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside)"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:48) All you get from Allah is because of what you have done!.

Copy the Code

No, it is a wrong concept adopted from the Jewish talmud. GOD's work is done here on earth and now HE is only a wittness to all actions of mankind. Man would suffer for his own wrong doing and would enjoy if he repants and walk the right path. GOD would only come inot action again when the time comes to end this cycle and create a new beginning. Understand that if you do not know. Islam is wrong right from the start and is wrong till to this very day. You are trapped in your on dreams and I feel sorry for you and many others lie you.

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: See...you misunderstood about Islam.See the verse below which explains all you have misuderstood in one shot: "But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee, the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world: but do thou good, as Allah has been good to thee, and seek not (occasions for) mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief."(Surah Al-Qasas 28:77) You have to think both.You don't know whether the Day of Judgement is near or not, but at the same time, you have to work to live on earth.Never Islam asked you to just praying and praying...non-stop.

Copy the Code

What wealth? If he had bestowed why are the Uthopeans suffering from starvation? So it is lie. It is a saying " GOD helps those who help themselves" so that man would not become lazy like sloth. This is a life you had taken and it is you who have to slog it out in order to have desent life. Not wait for handouts from others or the government. If you do that then you future would become bleak. These are motivation from the elders of the older religions before Islam. Hoiw does the bird and animals survie here? They workd on their instinct and search for food and man have the 6 senses can do better. Use your brain and your body to earn a living. That is all is asked of mankind. Think of the creator in mind and thank HIM for providing you this body and do your work. Do not harm any other for selfish reasons but defend you family and your country when danger arise. These are words of wisdom from elders of the earlier religions. What does GOD want beside these?

barney50 · Post time 3-4-2007 06:37 PM

:
Did I argued you about the repent?.I argued with you about why Allah kept the day of Judgement as secret.Then who is stupid?.You la..out of topic.See..always forget about something you yourself raised!.Kalau dah bodoh tu, tetaplah bodoh!.

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There should be no secret? Why should the end be a secret? Just say Islam or Allah does not know about the end.

1.The Krita yuga, which is the era of perfection, is 1,728,000 years in duration
2.Treta Yuga, in which dharma is reduced by one quarter, is three quarters as long, 1,296,000 years
3.Dvapara yuga, dharma is reduced to one half, and its length is only 864,000 years
4.Kali yuga, in which dharma is reduced to one quarter, lasts for only 432,000 years

So, when kali yuga ends there would be a new world again and the cycle of life will start again. It is very clear but as I have saoid earlier Allah is unaware of it because he could not be GOD. GOD would not keep this a secret. He created man and had tolld man all that has to be know to mankind. I'm sorry because you folow a religion that is so secretive like a cult. That is why I doubt your religious teachings which are concocted my kmen of the 7th century.

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:
That is just a prophecy, you also doesn't know whether you will die on that age or not.It makes you dreaming. Like I said before, the reason Allah kept the death and the Day of Judgement as secret, to make us beware always. And remember Him always.Since it is just a prophecy, you are welcome to do the last minute repentance.I am afraid that you will die before the 71st birthday.I am sorry for that.

Copy the Code

No prophecy but a reality. Why are you afraid to know your death is coming? I'm not. Just say Islam and Muslims are ignorant of these and I'll accept it but do not give me baseless reasons. We are not stupid as those of the 7th century.

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:
Which original sins you referred to?.
About the situation above, It is an evil!.And Islam against that.Unfortunately your Karma pours the oil in the fire. Unfortunately your religion not against that.Is that what you called the true religion?. When you do wrong, you should be punished, not your son.Use your brain. Don't blame others for your failure.You should against such idea!.

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Do you think your sins would not fall on your children? Why do Malays say sumpah tujoh keturanan? Ever heard of the legand of Mashuri? How did id come by? Islam is a religion born from the belif of others and most it did not know but made own ideas and the result is what you see now. Just believe whatever is told without question and you'd be called a good Muslim but if you question you'll be branded a traitor to Islam and branded as khafir. Simple solution! And that my friend is Islam for you.

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:
Alhamdulillah...at last you know that Islam is not forcing.

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What are you talking? Oh! I see shok sendiri kah? Islam was forcefull and used sword to spread in the beginning. Iqar, Persia and India was invaded and conquered by Muslims who forced their religion upon peole of thses countries. YOu cannot denny this truth not can you lie to the future generation about islam being peaceful. Period!

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:
Aik?.Still not able to answer.Show me..the verses that you said talking about different things caused by different translators.I don't mind if I failed to convince you.At least I have chance to show something that you have overlooked about my religion.And at least I have given a chance to reveal all lies brought by you about Islam.
That is my pleasure!.
But...let's back to the topic.Show me the verse where the Quran says Allah is WEAK!.You failed..

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The verse had come from Muslims own mouth. Muslims do not believe GOD can take menifestation and that makes your Allah weak. But for us GOD is Al Powerfull who can take any form when He desires. The difference is the Shiahs have a different version of hadith and Quran. See the different practice of Suffis, does not that show Islam has different teachings and practice? You are lying to protect your religion atany cost without realizing the truth. You have been living in lies all throughtout your life as other Muslims and I wonder how long can you live with such lies. Sorry, you religion cannot bluff me with make believe verses.