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Sperms are produced in chest not testicle ! According to Quran....
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 01:19 PM 
You just repeat the same argument from Ghaith where after got owned, he change the word Sulb from ...
This post of yours really expose your weakness that you cannot even stand your ground and debate with facts. Why bring the debate of others in the picture? Hello! I am debating you. Why behave like a pimp and try to promote 'faithfreedom'. Are you too scared to debate in a open forum like this one?
You just repeat the same argument from Ghaith where after got owned, he change the word Sulb from backbone and loins!Refer to here:http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/ ... 9d0604b01d&start=20
Lets take a look what your own arabic scholars about Sulb.Here is the extract from Centaur:
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Here is Abd-Allah's definition of sulb:
Note that 'sulb' is *singular*. In the dictionary by Wehr you cite below, you will see that its meaning of backbone is *only* when we take the *plural* word of sulb (aslaab). In its singular form, it means hardening.
Ahmed A. Abd-Allah
We do find it surprising that almost all the commonly available translations of the Qur'an refer to sulb as the backbone, though some refer to loins. Even Ibn Kathir accepts backbone. Is Wehr a more authoritative and knowledgeable authority on the Arabic language than Ibn Kathir? This is difficult to believe.
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So in order to your save your ass about the real meaning of Sulb, you desperately try to make a Kafir Wehr more believable than your own saudara seagama Ahmed Abdalllah and Ibnu Kathir?
Remember what your own Kitab and ulamas say? Jangan percayakan Yahudi dan Nasrani.Why you believe in them now when they use loin instead of blackbone?
Ok..lets say it really means loins in order just to be more murah hati to you.It is still wrong though because between loins and ribs is stomach.
Here question from peterpin to Ghaith about the area between loins and ribs:
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Oh dear Ghaith, so now we are back with a different word game?
So, "Between the ribs and the loins" where is that?
It's your STOMACH.
It does not INCLUDE the loins, as otherwise "between" would be the wrong word.
Also "Between the ribs and the backbone" is inside the rib cage, when I last looked, or, at a push, just below the ribcage, just above the kidneys.
Your diagram looks very nice, but is marking the wrong area. Why would you extend the area DOWNWARDS by not up?
If they asked to in a science test to mark the area between the backbone and the ribs, would you draw it like that?
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Why are you still arguing on the translation of 'sulb'. It has been shown that it can mean backbone or loins. Your argument is just selective translation. Dey tambi , your deceitful argument has been called out. You already appealed to tafseer Jalalyn and it states of loins. Why are you flip flopping going around in circles chasing your own backside? Your argument is a farce and it is getting worse with every post of yours. Can you provide the source of Ahmad A Abd-Allah? Why can't one draw an line from the coccyx to the ribs? The line will intersect the seminal vesicles.
I repeat my question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen = sperm? Why so scared to answer?
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 01:48 PM
Semen is not sperm.But semen contains sperm.If semen does not contain sperm, it cannot be called s ...
Your post hilited by me in red
Semen is not sperm.But semen contains sperm.If semen does not contain sperm, it cannot be called semen at all!!!That is so simple to understand this scientific concept, tambi!!!
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By iffo:
You will not be able to get away with it by playing typical muslim games.
We are talking about 'gushing fluid' which is semen, which include sperm.
There is no such thing as semen with out sperms. I hope buddy is old enough to know this personally .
So like I said you lost here, and please defend the next error.
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Koran tries to describe gushing fluid, which creates human. That means sperm and can also means semen which consist of sperm.
Or are you just try to say that there is other liquid that contains sperm other than semen????
Please tell me what liquid other than semen which can contain sperm????You can win Nobel Prize woooooo iof you really think there is other gushing fluid can contain sperm.
If semen is not sperm , why you die die argue about sperm in Quran86:5? Address the correct entity then. It being semen and it is in the seminal vesicles prior to ejaculation. Why bring testes into the picture unless you (mis)understand that semen emanates from the testes. This is horrible understanding on your part. The 'gushing liquid' is semen and semen is not sperm whereas sperm is part of semen. Therefore drawing a line between the coccyx and ribs , it passes thru the seminal vesicles. We can say it is between the backbone and ribs if you die die argue that sulb means backbone. I can argue either way and I still win.
You know you have lost and now you are trying to play with words like what you tried to do with the passage of Al Razi and Socrates. This stunt will not work with me.
Why are you blabbering about other liquid apart from semen which contain sperm? You are not drunk are you? Only drunkards will argue in this manner.
TQ , after more than 10 posts , you finally plucked enough courage to answer my question. If semen is not sperm , why blabber about sperm and testes. The said verse states of semen not sperm. Ha ha, caught you again.
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
Last edited by sam1528 on 30-1-2013 03:36 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 30-1-2013 02:38 PM
You have totally smashed them into smithereens......save some face and grace for them lah... . O ...
He keep repeating sperm = semen argument when none of us ever said that. We should agree from now on that semen contains sperm so we can say location of sperm = location of semen.
Look how desperate he is to keep repeating sperm =semen over and over again.He just want to be the last person to reply to this thread so that he can announce his victory.In other international forum, the winner is the person who addressed the argument nicely.
I think maybe he is angry due to name callings among us. This time I will be professional just in my real life.No personal attack this time.We shouldl stick to the topic about this sperm,ribs,backbone problem, shall we?
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 02:36 PM 
Let refresh back what thread starter try to address about Koran:
---------------------------------- ...
HAHAHAHAHA 
Still being selective when it comes to SULB/TARA'IB translation eh? I pity you for being so ignorant on this. And i must say that most of your postings were purely based on your stupid assumptions/logical thinking/sources from faithfreedom.org.
Now kindly take a good look on the definition of those two:
1. Sulb
2. Tara'ib
Tara'eb (ترائب) is plural of Tareebah (تريبة), and they are derived from Turb (تُرْبْ).
1- Tara'eb (ترائب): means ترابة: تلك لا تُدرك بالنَّظر دقةً TURAABAH, which means something that can not be seen with the eye.
It is in other words microscopic.
2- Al-Tirbatu (التِّرْبَةُ): Is derived from ترائب and it means الكروش كلها the entire tummy or abdomen.
و قيل الكروش كلها تسمى تَرِبَةً لأنها يحصل فيها التَّرابُ من المرتع
It is said that the (females') enlarged tummies are named TARIBATAN (تَرِبَةً) because التَّرابُ (Al-Taraabu) happens in it from sexual consummation and fertilization (المرتع).
Note: TARA'EB here refers to the anatomies, inside the human body, that deal with sexual consummation, fertilization, pregnancy and birth.
See also: Al-Mawrid dictionary [4], Arabic-English section, Page 1016, and Al-Qamoos Al-Muheet [2], Page 705 for more definitions and proofs on المرتع.:
Marta'aa (مرتع): means خصيب, تخصيب fertile, fertilized, fertilization, breeding.
Marta'aa (مرتع): Breeding, fertile.
3- Turbatu (تربة): Is derived from ترائب and it means موضع position or location.
Atarib (أتارب): Is a plural of تربة and it means مواضع positions or locations.
So TARA'EB also means different positions and locations in the abdomen.
4- Al-Turtub (الترتب): means الأمر الثابت a steady process, event, affair or business.
5- Tara'eb (ترائب): means TARIBA (ترب) to have THE BEST AND MOST HONORABLE OF SOMETHING.
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, told one of his companions: ترب نحرك, فقتل الرجل شهيداً TARIBA your death, and then the man died a martyr (the best and most honorable death).
6- Tara'eb (ترائب): means متروب: كل ما يصلح MATROOB, which means everything that is put together or fixed.
7- Tara'eb (ترائب): means أترب: استغنى و كثر ماله ATRABA, which means became rich.
Tara'eb (ترائب): means المُتْرِبْ: الغني AL-MUTRIB means the rich.
Tara'eb (ترائب): means being blessed and having abundance.
تربت يداك May your hands be blessed and full.
إن قولهم تربت يداك يريد به استغنت يداك Their saying تربت يداك means that may your hands be full.
التّتريب: كثرة المال AL-TATREEB means the abundance of wealth.
8- Tara'eb (ترائب): means متربة: لاصق MUTRABAH means something that is sticking.
9- Tara'eb (ترائب): means عظام الصدر The chest's bones.
10- Tara'eb (ترائب): means صلب الرجل The loins and gonads, spinal column, back bone of man.
So what do we see?
We see that to the Arabs of old, the meaning of TARA'EB in the human anatomy varied. It meant
- Something that could not be seen with the naked eyes.
- Different anatomies that are inside the abdomen area and the human body in general.
- TARA'EB refers to the anatomies, inside the human body, that deal with sexual consummation, fertilization, pregnancy and birth (مرتع).
- Different positions and locations inside the body.
- A steady process and event.
- A rich process that involves many things.
- Something that is quite honorable and powerful.
- Something that is mixed and mingled and is the best., which is basically and end-result of very complex and thorough process, such as production of semen and sperms.
- Different parts of the human-body.
This is important, because it is clear that the locations of the TARA'EB varied from the head all the way to the feet. Certainly, the origination of the sperms and the semen come from many parts of the body. The nerves system, the brain, the backbone, the DNA, the blood, the water inside the body are few examples of the anatomies and processes that supply the sperms and the semen liquid, to enable them to carry *copies* of your
- DNA.
- Characteristics (in looks and even in personality).
- Other properties and special and unique features that your body has such as:
- Strength.
- Disabilities if any.
- Skeletal and Muscular structures and formations.
- Height, Width
- Skin, hair and eye colors.
- And many many other features.
- All of these are ultimately contained in that single microscopic sperm that fertilizes that female's egg.
- Indeed, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone!
And it is also important to note that TARA'EB also meant, as I mentioned, something that is mixed or mingled and is the best or the most honorable thing, and is also very rich in substance.
Allah Almighty's use of TARA'EB and Back bone were indeed Miraculous Choices, because they encompassed and covered all of the areas in our anatomy that generate the sperms and the semen. TARA'EB means things that can't be seen with the eye, and it also refers to different areas of our anatomy. Certainly, the generation of the sperms and the semen are very complex processes and the medical and embryological definitions and terms and meaning that we have for each anatomy and activity, today, did not exist 1,500 years ago.
That is why TARA'EB was used, because it is the Term that encompasses all of our modern-day medical and embryological terms.
Now could you please answer Mr Sam's quest?or maybe provide some facts based on your stupid assumption that the verse has got to do with the process of sperms production?
Last edited by Cuai on 30-1-2013 03:31 PM
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 03:17 PM
It does not matter whether sperm = semen. What matters is location of sperm = location of semen si ...
Why are you trying your level best to expose your less than average intelligence? By now you should know playing with words will have no effect on me. It just shows that you are just bull shitter.
It does not matter whether sperm = semen. What matters is location of sperm = location of semen since sperm can only be contained in semen and sperm is produced only and only in testicles, which is not located/backbone between loin and rips. That is what Koran get wrong.
Hahaha! Surprise that I manage to catch you really bad this time????? I spent so many times yesterday to clearly look at your agrument on the first page.I manage to catch your tactic this time.Try to repeat using sperm = semen over and over again.
Lain kali jangan nak debat2 lama dgn abang ye, adik.Abang dah lama hidup dari kamu.Abang pun dah lama habis SPM/A-level/Universiti berbanding dgn kamu.Kan dah kantoi bila abang mula serius.Masa mula-mula abang saja nak troll kamu sebab ini sekadar forum,tapi kadang2 abang risau juga dgn bakal anak kamu tu,terutama sekali kalau anak kamu tu bercita-cita nak jadi doktor. Sebab tu abang nak luang masa sikit perbetulkan cara kamu kutip ilmu tu.Ilmu Agama dgn ilmu sains memang tak akan dapat bersatu,adik.Abang guna bahasa lembut kali ni.
It does matter whether it is sperm or semen. Sperm is part of semen , it is not semen. What is ejaculated is semen and it resides in the seminal vesicles prior to ejaculation. If you want to argue about backbone and ribs , we can draw a line connecting the coccyx and ribs. The said line will pass thru the seminal vesicles , therefore 'between the backbone and ribs'. Either way I will win.
Ha ha , the more you argue , the more I will embarrass you as you already made an initial blunder that you die die (mis)understand that semen = sperm.
Ha ha , nasihat ko tu baik ko yg bebel pada diri ko. Selama kita debat ni , dah sah ko dok lari kiri kanan cuba elak dari penampar geng muslim. Ha ha kalau anak aku jadi doktor , dia tak akan buat salah spt kebodohan yg ko tonjolkan iaitu semen = sperm.
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 03:26 PM
He keep repeating sperm = semen argument when none of us ever said that. We should agree from now ...
Haha.....i'ii get my anger management recalibrate but frankly speaking sometime i just couldn't resist the temptation to respond to those idiotic yet amusing question.....
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 03:26 PM
He keep repeating sperm = semen argument when none of us ever said that. We should agree from now ...
Ha ha , apart from you and 'wkk5159' being like a pimp for Ali Sina / faith freedom why are you seeking the shoulder of a christian to cry on? You claim yourself to be a millitant atheist. Why don't you tell him what you think of biblical Jesus , his death and resurrection. Oops , I know , for the sake of political alignment you need to have a buddy. You are just too scared to stand alone. Same goes for 'wkk5159' who has to appeal to an atheist source to argue against Islam. What a shame ....
He keep repeating sperm = semen argument when none of us ever said that. We should agree from now on that semen contains sperm so we can say location of sperm = location of semen.
Look how desperate he is to keep repeating sperm =semen over and over again.He just want to be the last person to reply to this thread so that he can announce his victory.In other international forum, the winner is the person who addressed the argument nicely.
I think maybe he is angry due to name callings among us. This time I will be professional just in my real life.No personal attack this time.We shouldl stick to the topic about this sperm,ribs,backbone problem, shall we?
Ha ha , why are both of you in denial that you die die (mis)understand that sperm = semen. You guys are not even addressing Quran86:5 accurately. This is what we call inferior comprehension. Are you now saying that semen emanates from the testes with your argument that 'location of sperm = location of semen'?
Ok then. My question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen emanates from the testes as now you argue that 'location of sperm = location of semen' ..... ha ha
Why are you trying to divert the issue to international forums? Are we not in a debate in an open and neutral forum? Are you scared of a neutral venue? Are you not debating me and likewise?
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
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wkk5159 posted on 30-1-2013 03:47 PM
Haha.....i'ii get my anger management recalibrate but frankly speaking sometime i just couldn't re ... Haha.....i'ii get my anger management recalibrate but frankly speaking sometime i just couldn't resist the temptation to respond to those idiotic yet amusing question.....
Awwww .... what an emotional moment. A millitant atheist and a millitant christian crying on each other shoulders as a big bad muslim has buttkicked them.
Its ok to cry. I can understand. BTW , if thre is no muslim in between these 2 will be at each other's throats.
My question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen emanates from the testes as now you argue that 'location of sperm = location of semen'? ..... ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 30-1-2013 07:34 PM
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Cuai posted on 30-1-2013 03:29 PM
HAHAHAHAHA
Still being selective when it comes to SULB/TARA'IB translation eh? I pity ...
What Mr Sam question? Sperm = Semen ? Did you ever read any earlier post by Wkk and my recent post? None of us said sperm = semen. He just twisting other words like snake.
I think you copy paste from answering-christianity website, do you.Answering-islam provides the same refutation also.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm
To avoid attributing a scientific error to the Quran, some Muslims claim that the Quran is not referring to the production of semen. Rather, they claim that the Quran is referring to the area that supplies the testes with the necessary blood supply to produce semen. Typical of such a Muslim response is the following proposed by the Learner:
The latter part of this verse, i.e. "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", has generally been taken to imply the part of the abdomen that lies between these points. In Figure 1, this part has been roughly marked by the red triangle ABC. This implication, obviously, has led the Muslims to believe that the sperm itself or its basic ingredients are made within the (roughly) marked area. I, being a novice in the related fields, asked a few of my doctor friends about the making of the male sperm and the supply of its ingredients to the ultimate place of its making. In response, among a few other things, I was told that although the male sperm is formed in the testes, yet the blood supply which, obviously, is integral to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back. I was also told by one of my doctor friends that the cells that form the sperm originate from between the ribs and the back. If this is true, then the words of the Qur'an are not scientifically incorrect, as the words "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", do not necessarily imply "emanating in its final shape" only, but can also cover "initial emanation". (Source: http://www.understanding-islam.com/qq.htm; bold emphasis ours)
Learner is not alone here. Both Dr. Jamal Badawi and Dr. Zakir Naik have made the same exact claim regarding the meaning of S. 86:5-7. We recommend that our readers view Dr. Badawi's debate with Jay Smith, Is the Quran the Word of God?, and Dr. Naik's lecture Islam, Medical Science and Dietary Laws given at King Fahad Hospital, Jeddah Saudi Arabia (January 28, 1996) for the documentation.
The problem with the above explanation is that Dr. Naik, Dr. Badawi and the Learner are Sunni Muslims. In fact, at the Learner's homepage one will find the following claim:
At 'Understanding Islam', we present the explanation of Islam in the light only of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). (Source: http://www.understanding-islam.com; bold emphasis ours) This means that instead of asking doctors what S. 86:6-7 means, or giving their own private interpretation of the text, they must consult the interpretation given by Muhammad and his followers regarding the correct meaning of this passage. Once this is done, one discovers that both Muhammad and his followers understood the passage in a manner completely incompatible with modern medical and scientific discoveries regarding the human anatomy. The following commentary is taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Abridged Volume 10, Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur'an, abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, September 2000:
<He is created from a water gushing forth.> meaning, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man AND THE WOMAN. Thus, the child is produced FROM BOTH OF THEM by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
< roceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.>
meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs OF THE WOMAN, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from 'Ikrimah, who narrated from Ibn 'Abbas that he said,
<roceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.>
"The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. Th child will not be born except FROM BOTH OF THEM (i.e., THEIR SEXUAL FLUIDS)." (Ibid., p. 439; bold and capital emphasis ours)
According to Ibn Kathir, the first Muslims understood S. 86:5-7 to be referring to the sexual fluid provided by both the man and the woman in producing a child. This implies that the first Muslims believed that women contributed actual sperm necessary in determining the characteristics of a child.
The hadiths provide additional proof that both Muhammad and his followers did in fact assume that a child's characteristics along with its gender was the direct result of the sperm contributed by both the male and the female. Muhammad declared,
"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Number 546)
"Narrated Zainab bint Um Salama: Um Sulaim 'O Allah's Apostle! Verily Allah is not shy of (telling you) the truth. Is it essential for a woman to take a bath after she had a wet dream (nocturnal sexual discharges)?' He said, 'Yes, if she notices discharge. On that Um Salama laughed and said, 'Does a woman get a (nocturnal sexual) discharge?' He said, 'How then does (her) son resemble her (his mother)?'" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 113)
That Muhammad is speaking of actual female sperm becomes clear from the following hadith:
Thauban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: While I was standing beside the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one of the rabbis of the Jews came and said: Peace be upon you, O Muhammad. I pushed him back with a push that he was going to fall. Upon this he said: Why do you push me? I said: Why don't you say: O Messenger of Allah? The Jew said: We call him by the name by which he was named by his family. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My name is Muhammad with which I was named by my family. The Jew said: I have come to ask you (something). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Should that thing be of any benefit to you, if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I will lend my ears to it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew a line with the help of the stick that he had with him and then said: Ask (whatever you like). Thereupon the Jew said: Where would the human beings be on the Day when the earth would change into another earth and the heavens too (would change into other heavens)? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: They would be in darkness beside the Bridge. He (the Jew) again said: Who amongst people would be the first to cross (this bridge)? He said: They would be the poor amongst the refugees. The Jew said: What would constitute their breakfast when they would enter Paradise? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: A caul of the fish-liver. He (the Jew) said. What would be their food after this? He (the Holy Prophet) said: A bullock which was fed in the different quarters of Paradise would be slaughtered for them. He (the Jew) said: What would be their drink? He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would be given drink from the fountain which is named "Salsabil". He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Would it benefit you if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I would lend ears to that. He then said: I have come to ask you about the child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance, it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah. The Jew said: What you have said is true; verily you are an Apostle. He then returned and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He asked me about such and such things of which I have had no knowledge till Allah gave me that. (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, Number 0614)
Interestingly, this idea was not unique to Muhammad, but was something that Greek physicians believed prior to the advent of Islam. Dr. Lactantius comments:
"In the verses listed above nutfah is used when describing the fluid which gushes out during sexual intercourse and clearly this can only refer to semen. However, Prof. Moore is keen to translate nutfah in sura 76:2 as "mingled fluid" [3] and explains that this Arabic term refers to the male and female fluids which contain the gametes (male sperm and female egg). While it is true that the ancient Greeks would not have been able to see individual sperm or eggs, these only being visible through the microscope, the Qur'an emphatically does not mention sperm or eggs; it simply says nutfah. This can reasonably be translated semen, or at a push, germinal fluid - which was a term used as early as Hippocrates [4] who spoke of male and female reproductive fluids (but obviously could not have been aware of the cells contained in the fluids). If Moore wishes to translate nutfah as germinal fluid, he inadvertently reinforces that the Qur'an is borrowing this term from the Greeks." And,
Another Hadith says "If a male's fluid prevails upon the female's substance, the child will be a male by Allah's decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed"[25]. Surely this is not referring to dominant and recessive genes at all, as certain Muslims have claimed [26], but is simply repeating the incorrect belief of Hippocrates that both men and women produce both male and female sperm. The sex of the resulting child is determined by which sperm overwhelms the other in strength or quantity: "...both partners alike contain both male and female sperm (the male being stronger than the female must originate from a stronger sperm). Here is a further point: if (a) both partners produce a stronger sperm then a male is the result, whereas if (b) they produce a weak form, then a female is the result. But if (c) one partner produces one kind of sperm, and the other another then the resultant sex is determined by whichever sperm prevails in quantity. For suppose that the weak sperm is much greater in quantity than the stronger sperm: then the stronger sperm is overwhelmed and, being mixed with weak, results in a female. If on the contrary the strong sperm is greater in quantity than the weak, and the weak is overwhelmed, it results in a male" [27].
Earlier in the Hadith, Muhammed says that the reproductive substance of men is white and that of women is yellow. This sounds very much like the content, white and yellow, that is found inside developing chick-eggs, and which Aristotle was known to dissect [28]." (Source: Embryology in the Qur'an; bold emphasis ours)
Therefore we discover that Muhammad believed that women actually produced the sperm necessary in determining both the gender and characteristics of the fetus. This is an idea that Muhammad clearly took from the Greek physicians as indicated by Dr. Lactantius.
Learner also proposes an alternate theory regarding the meaning of S. 86:5-7. The Learner claims that the reference to "the back and the ribs" is a euphemism referring to the male sexual organ. The Learner explains why the Quran doesn't simply explicitly refer to the male sexual organ in unambiguous terms:
As far as the first question is concerned, it is obvious that the Qur'an, as any decent and sober literature would do, has only avoided direct reference (in words) to the male sexual organ. Through the words that it has used, the Qur'an has made a complete euphemistic reference to the point of emanation of the sperm, while successfully avoiding naming it. Naming it would definitely have negatively affected the literary value of the Qur'an. As far as the objection that the euphemistic style of the Qur'an, in this case, has negatively affected the clarity of the message and has resulted in confusion regarding the implication of the verse is concerned, in my opinion, it seems quite out of place. The mere fact that the previous verse had referred to 'the fluid gushing forth' (semen), which is followed by the words 'which emanates from...', brings to mind the source of the 'gushing forth' of the fluid, without much difficulty. Furthermore, one should not forget that even if the male sperm was actually formed within the two stipulated points, the mention of this source of formation of the male sperm had absolutely no pertinence with the message of the Qur'an and the information would have been of absolutely no relevance to the Arabs of old - the direct addressees of the Qur'an. The mere realization of the point that the Qur'an does not refer to any such information, even if it is true, that has no relevance to its basic message, guides one to the simple physical (non-scientific and uncomplicated) interpretation of the verse under consideration. (bold emphasis ours) The only problem behind the Learner's reasoning is that the Quran does in fact explicitly refer to the sexual parts of a human, specifically the sexual areas of a woman, in rather vulgar fashion. For instance, in narrating the virginal conception and birth of Jesus the Quran unashamedly refers to Mary as one that guarded her sexual organ:
And (remember) her who guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic-farjahaa): We breathed into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all people. S. 21:91And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic-farjahaa) and We breathed INTO IT of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). S. 66:12
Mahmoud M. Ayoub contrasts the birth narratives of the Gospel of Luke with that mentioned in the Quran. All bold and capital emphasis is ours:
"The language of this verse (author- Luke 1:35) is clearly circumspect. It implies no sexual union or divine generation of any kind. Furthermore, while Luke's description agrees both in form and spirit with the Qur'anic idea of the conception of Christ, the language of the Qur'an IS FAR MORE GRAPHIC AND OPEN TO INTERPRETATION." (Christian-Muslim Encounters, ed. Yvonne Yazbeck Haddad & Wadi Z. Haddad [University Press of Florida, 1995], p. 67)
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 03:45 PM
Wowwww......how clever you are.
The guishing liquid in Koran refers to semen.Sperm is not conta ...
Ha ha , why are you like a headless chicken going in circles chasing your backside?
Wowwww......how clever you are.
The guishing liquid in Koran refers to semen.Sperm is not contained in a part of semen.Sperm is contained in the whole semen.Semen that contains no sperm never exist at all, nowhere in any real biological book.
Now I want to highlight your scientific ignorance here:
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Sperm is a part of semen
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So that means you believe that there is part of semen which contains no sperm.Is it right?
Care to tell me which website or reference book teaches the thing mentioned above?Harunyahya?Answering-christianity?Zakir Naik?Are they really biologists to begin with?
It is very accurate to say Semen = Fluid + Sperm.If you remove sperm in equation, only fluid is left.And that fluid cannot be called semen since it has no sperm.
Semen = Fluid WRONG
Semen = Sperm WRONG
Semen = Fluid + Sperm CORRECT
Simpati betul abang dgn kamu, adik.Biologi dapat berapa adik?Oppssss....abang tak rasa kamu masuk aliran sains pun.
Now sperm is not contained in part of semen? Earlier you claimed sperm is part of semen. You are blur already. I suggest you take a step back and breathe in and out for 20x. Simple isn't it. If a male does not produce sperm ... no kids. This simple also you have problems understanding?
After more than 20 posts finally you plucked up enough courage to admit that sperm <> semen.
My question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen emanates from the testes as now you argue that 'location of sperm = location of semen'?
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 04:00 PM
What Mr Sam question? Sperm = Semen ? Did you ever read any earlier post by Wkk and my recent post ...
Even more amazing is Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 56:35-37:
Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said,<In Paradise, the believer will be given such and such strength for women.>
Anas said, "I asked, 'O Allah's Messenger! Will one be able to do that? He said,
<He will be given the strength OF A HUNDRED (MEN)>At-Tirmidhi also recorded it and said, "Sahih Gharib." Abu Al-Qasim At-Tabarani recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah was asked, "O Allah's Messenger! Will we have sexual intercourse with our wives in Paradise?" He said,
<The man will be able to have sexual intercourse WITH A HUNDRED VIRGINS IN ONE DAY.>
Al-Hafiz Abu 'Abdullah Al-Maqisi said, "In my view, the Hadith meets the criteria of the Sahih, and Allah knows best." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Abridged, Volume 9, Surat Al-Jathiyah to the end of Surat Al-Munafiqun, pp. 429-430; bold and capital emphasis ours)
In light of the preceding examples, we find the explanation given by the Learner to be without merit. Both the Quran and Islamic traditions are quite explicit in describing the sexual body parts of women, often in quite graphic details. Therefore, based on the Learner's own criteria, the Quran cannot be categorized as decent literature due to its graphic depiction of a woman's sexual organ, or the claim that Allah breathed into a woman's sexual organ causing her to conceive, or of its statement that maidens in paradise will have firm round breasts. In the report of the conception of Jesus the language of the Quran is just plain vulgar and out of place. Regarding the description of the maidensof paradise there is another aspect still. It is not a neutral statement of factual information (as the statement "these maidens will be perfect in every regard" would have been) but the description is designed to awake sexual desire in the listeners, and the longing to make it to this place where those maidens are waiting for the faithful. As such the Quran is using a direct appeal to the sexual desires of men to convince them to believe in and fight for the cause of Islam. This is very similar to the tricks in modern day commercials where the advertizing companies use images of naked women to sell cars or any other products. Finishing this detour, we conclude that the Learner's explanation seems to be more of an attempt to save the Quran from a gross scientific error than a correct interpretation of the text in question.
In light of the preceding considerations, we find that the interpretation of S. 86:5-7 proposed by Dr. Badawi, Dr. Naik and the Learner is more of a private interpretation that seeks to make science the standard by which the Quran is understood and judged. In so doing, these individuals must ignore the authentic interpretation of their Prophet and his companions in order to avoid the gross scientific errors contained within both the Quran and Hadith. Hence, it is no longer the Quran that is God's Criterion to distinguish between truth and error. Rather, it is science that now judges and critiques God's alleged "revelation".
Note- In all fairness, the Learner does affirm that the Quran is not a scientific textbook and that the verses in question must be understood in light of its historical context. The Learner does claim that these verses had significance to those who first heard the Quran in the seventh century. Hence, in order to understand the meaning of the Quran we must first seek to know what these verses meant to those who first heard them, as opposed to applying modern scientific knowledge upon the correct interpretation of the Quran. Yet, once this is done we discover that the early Muslim understanding of S. 86:5-7 is completely incompatible with modern scientific understanding.
Last edited by prototaip on 30-1-2013 04:03 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 30-1-2013 03:47 PM
Haha.....i'ii get my anger management recalibrate but frankly speaking sometime i just couldn't re ...
Now he want to accuse me that sperm is part of semen when I actually quote his #144 post which states sperm is part of semen.He suddenly shift his own word to me.Now no wonder lah muslim dont have any morality despite of having morality from islam.
Maybe islam is not a religion at all.A religion that allows his followers to lie cannot be called religion right?
Hahahaha.......maybe sam1528 try to edit his own #144 post now by removing sperm is part of semen sentence.
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 04:13 PM
Dey tambi sperm is part of semen is your own statement.Since when I said sperm is part of semen.I ...
Wow , looks like this debate is causing you to lose you short term memory. You quote me on my post #144? My post#144 is quoting you in your post#133 , bit part :
Semen is not sperm.But semen contains sperm.If semen does not contain sperm, it cannot be called semen at all!!!That is so simple to understand this scientific concept, tambi!!!
Do you know what you are talking about?
Dey tambi sperm is part of semen is your own statement.Since when I said sperm is part of semen.I quote your #144 post la tambi.Dah lupa ke apa yg kamu tulis?
Your #144 post stated:
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If semen is not sperm , why you die die argue about sperm in Quran86:5? Address the correct entity then. It being semen and it is in the seminal vesicles prior to ejaculation. Why bring testes into the picture unless you (mis)understand that semen emanates from the testes. This is horrible understanding on your part. The 'gushing liquid' is semen and semen is not sperm whereas sperm is part of semen. Therefore drawing a line between the coccyx and ribs , it passes thru the seminal vesicles. We can say it is between the backbone and ribs if you die die argue that sulb means backbone. I can argue either way and I still win.
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Now what????You want to accuse me to say that sperm is part of semen comes from my post???Wowwww.....snake is detected here.A muslim snake.Call firemen!!!!!!Call firemen!!!!!
Bertenang adik, kalau nak reply cuba ingat balik ye apa yg kamu sendiri tulis.Abang tak kata pun sperm is part of semen.Abang cuma quote post #144 kamu yg tulis sperm is part of semen.Kenapa kamu tiba2 tuduh abang tulis sperm is part of semen,adik?Tahu tak apa hukuman menipu dalam Islam,adik?
Ha ha , you keep on shooting yourself in your foot. Why do you have this self destruct tendency? Is it because you no longer can argue on facts that you are just plain desperate?
Ha ha , kesian tengok ko ni. Asyik kena penampar aje. Dah kata
- muslim bagi fakta
- kapiak hanya auta
My question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen emanates from the testes as now you argue that 'location of sperm = location of semen'?
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
Ps ... I can go on and on. I am on vacation till next week. Ha ha ..... you picked the wrong timing to argue ....
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prototaip posted on 30-1-2013 04:20 PM
Now he want to accuse me that sperm is part of semen when I actually quote his #144 post which sta ...
Err .... no need to edit :
Now he want to accuse me that sperm is part of semen when I actually quote his #144 post which states sperm is part of semen.He suddenly shift his own word to me.Now no wonder lah muslim dont have any morality despite of having morality from islam.
Maybe islam is not a religion at all.A religion that allows his followers to lie cannot be called religion right?
Hahahaha.......maybe sam1528 try to edit his own #144 post now by removing sperm is part of semen sentence.
Just refer to your post#133
Ha ha , I don't believe this. This is just too simple for me to slap you left and right. You are losing short term memory. Have I been too brutal on you that you are purging in your pants along with your grey matter?
My question : What is the basis of your (mis)understanding that semen emanates from the testes as now you argue that 'location of sperm = location of semen'?
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
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sam1528 posted on 30-1-2013 04:31 PM
Wow , looks like this debate is causing you to lose you short term memory. You quote me on my post ...
Yang kamu tu terdesak sangat nak menipu ni kenapa? Kamu sendiri yg kata sperm is part of semen tiba2 kamu kata abang yang tulis sperm is part of semen.Mari abang save post no #144 kamu tu.Nampak tulisan bergaris warna merah dekat tulisan kamu tu?Kamu ni memang takde masa depan ke nak mengulang2 benda yg sama?Abang dah ada kerja,pangkat tinggi lagi.Abang takde masalah buang masa kat sini.Ehem.....sedap betul duduk atas kerusi empuk dalam bilik aircond ni sambil layan internet.
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Post on 30-1-2013 03:23 PM|View author' postsprototaip posted on 30-1-2013 01:48 PM 
Semen is not sperm.But semen contains sperm.If semen does not contain sperm, it cannot be called s ...
Your post hilited by me in red
Semen is not sperm.But semen contains sperm.If semen does not contain sperm, it cannot be called semen at all!!!That is so simple to understand this scientific concept, tambi!!!
---------------------------------------
By iffo:
You will not be able to get away with it by playing typical muslim games.
We are talking about 'gushing fluid' which is semen, which include sperm.
There is no such thing as semen with out sperms. I hope buddy is old enough to know this personally .
So like I said you lost here, and please defend the next error.
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Koran tries to describe gushing fluid, which creates human. That means sperm and can also means semen which consist of sperm.
Or are you just try to say that there is other liquid that contains sperm other than semen????
Please tell me what liquid other than semen which can contain sperm????You can win Nobel Prize woooooo iof you really think there is other gushing fluid can contain sperm.
If semen is not sperm , why you die die argue about sperm in Quran86:5? Address the correct entity then. It being semen and it is in the seminal vesicles prior to ejaculation. Why bring testes into the picture unless you (mis)understand that semen emanates from the testes. This is horrible understanding on your part. The 'gushing liquid' is semen and semen is not sperm whereas sperm is part of semen. Therefore drawing a line between the coccyx and ribs , it passes thru the seminal vesicles. We can say it is between the backbone and ribs if you die die argue that sulb means backbone. I can argue either way and I still win.
You know you have lost and now you are trying to play with words like what you tried to do with the passage of Al Razi and Socrates. This stunt will not work with me.
Why are you blabbering about other liquid apart from semen which contain sperm? You are not drunk are you? Only drunkards will argue in this manner.
TQ , after more than 10 posts , you finally plucked enough courage to answer my question. If semen is not sperm , why blabber about sperm and testes. The said verse states of semen not sperm. Ha ha, caught you again.
Do you want a debate on the existence of god from the logical and scientific standpoint? Oops , you will be too scared to respond.
Last edited by sam1528 on 30-1-2013 03:36 PM
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Last edited by prototaip on 30-1-2013 05:47 PM
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Post time 30-1-2013 03:00 PM
Author
