[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Debmey

NO NEED? NO NEED?? That's news from a person like you who so openly professes a life free from prejudices and lies? A person who professes a crusade to bring forth the truth to Christian epiphanies and death to Islam and Moslems. Know what dude? Your bring hypocrisy to a new level dawg! Yeah you heard me right the first time!

I never preach death to muslims sir. you need to wake up.

First of all true Islam is NOT about being a Sunni or Shia. It's about being focal to Quran and nothing else. In the pre-Armageddon armies of Islam to come, Quran WILL BE the driving force. THE motivation that drowns out secterian divides. You mark my word on this bubba.

But you do beleive in the hadiths right?

The reason that Aishah's age is in disregard is the fact that sectarian inequalities has let the age debacle to this issue. Then there is the issue of female prominence in society not given true mention as women back then were NOT supposed to be role players nor meddle meddle in politics of men. There have been many evidences from Islamic literature that speaks of different ages for the marriage to the prophet of Islam. The truth of the matter lies in the overwhelming possibility that Aishah was betrothed and not married to the Prophet Mohammad at the age of nine. I will only elaborate more if only you'll be willing to talk on the subject of Jubayr ibn Mut'im. So what's your answer gonna be?

Which means you have no answers to the records of mo having sex with aisha when she was only 9 years old lah.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 22-1-2007 12:53 PM:
But you do beleive in the hadiths right?

I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they want. I believe that all the hadith transmitters have a right to record and keep good no matter what the work they do. I believe that the hadiths are representing the common concensus of the Moslems in that time of history. I believe that in any common concensus, there are bound to be grey and blind areas not covered or overlooked. I believe that mention of women in the hadiths are limited by social prejudices. I believe that the hadiths in some manners compliment the way of life of the prophet of Islam and helps in putting to rest some correlative events in the Quranic transmissions.

Originally posted by Debmey at 22-1-2007 12:53 PM:
Which means you have no answers to the records of mo having sex with aisha when she was only 9 years old lah.

Which also means you dare not talk about Jubayr ibn Mut'im ,the first suitor of Aishah for fear that the events that follow the timeline of the betrothal will destroy your paedo charge.

There are many Islamic literary records that put to loggerheads what Bukhari says and the historical timelines that support a more mature age of Aishah when married to the prophet of Islam. You DARE NOT dwell in them for if you do, it would only serve to run down the paedo charge floated by you.

DARE YOU TALK ABOUT JUBAYR IBN MUT'IM?  I dare you to!

ARI FUZZMAN

barney50

FUZZMAN,

If you believe hadith Bukhari is wrong in reporting the facts than why are the Muslims still quoting from such hadith. I thought Muslism believe the hadith becuase Bukhari rejected all the false hadith and only accepted the authentic verses comparing them with those who have similar sayings. And now you come to tell us that Bukhari has wronged? My! My! My! In that case you should go public and say that the hadith is all bull# and only the Quran is the word of GOD. Can you please do that?

Debmey

I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they want. I believe that all the hadith transmitters have a right to record and keep good no matter what the work they do. I believe that the hadiths are representing the common concensus of the Moslems in that time of history. I believe that in any common concensus, there are bound to be grey and blind areas not covered or overlooked. I believe that mention of women in the hadiths are limited by social prejudices. I believe that the hadiths in some manners compliment the way of life of the prophet of Islam and helps in putting to rest some correlative events in the Quranic transmissions.

So you do believe in the hadiths then. Good.

Which also means you dare not talk about Jubayr ibn Mut'im ,the first suitor of Aishah for fear that the events that follow the timeline of the betrothal will destroy your paedo charge.

There are many Islamic literary records that put to loggerheads what Bukhari says and the historical timelines that support a more mature age of Aishah when married to the prophet of Islam. You DARE NOT dwell in them for if you do, it would only serve to run down the paedo charge floated by you.

DARE YOU TALK ABOUT JUBAYR IBN MUT'IM?  I dare you to!

Firstly, there is nothing to support your time line theory to dispute aisha's age. It simple taps on wild assumptions that are absolutely baseless.

Besides, anyone who have studied philosophy would have understood Ocaam's razor principle where one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything. Direct records of Aisha's age and Mo's paedophilia from multiple sources corroborate. Taken logically and from a decent philisophical viewpoint, you have no case Fuzzy but to accept that Mo was indeed a paedohile.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by barney50 at 22-1-2007 10:28 PM
FUZZMAN,
If you believe hadith Bukhari is wrong in reporting the facts than why are the Muslims still quoting from such hadith. I thought Muslism believe the hadith becuase Bukhari rejected all the false hadith and only accepted the authentic verses comparing them with those who have similar sayings. And now you come to tell us that Bukhari has wronged? My! My! My! In that case you should go public and say that the hadith is all bull# and only the Quran is the word of GOD. Can you please do that?

Did you read my answer in post #1370? Authenticated verses means common concensus verses drrived from the sayings of the prophet of Islam and his companions. Know what that means? Let me give you another comparison. The Gospels that Debmey hold dear to are factually "ahadiths" but in a different format. So tell me, do all Gospels correlate the same words and messages? The message from God of the Bible is spread out into many narratives, collected and compiled seperately. That is why we have third person narratives for the Gospels. Gospels are NEVER directly the word of Jesus himself. The ahadiths are different in that they are common concensus collectibles that appease and corelate to all tribes and in finality compiled into complete collections by the numerous transmitters. But the ahadiths were never the word of God but a continous narrative of the doings, sayings and actions of the prophet of Islam and the early Moslems that went along with Prophet Mohammad.

Now Barney, don't you go putting words into my mouth. Where did I say Bukhari has wronged? All I did say that there are bound to be grey and blind areas not covered or overlooked in the zest for common concensus. Instead of going public with anything, I think you people should go public with the issue of Jubayr ibn Mut'im who I feel holds the key to the true age of Aishah. On the other hand, I feel that won't be happening anywhere soon. The issue of Jubayr will probably be overlooked and swept under the nearest possible rug in sight.

Dare you talk about Jubayr as the very first suitor to Aishah. I know for a fact that Debmey has refused to even speak on that piece of evidence to bury the paedo charge on the prophet of Islam.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

The hadiths al bukhari are authenticated even more than whatever you have shown us fuzzy and they all said the same thing. Mo had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years old.

And like i said, nothing in your post actually contradicted the hadiths. You simply made wild abd baseless assumptions to bolster your point.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 22-1-2007 11:55 PM:
Firstly, there is nothing to support your time line theory to dispute aisha's age. It simple taps on wild assumptions that are absolutely baseless.

"Wild assumptions that are absolutely baseless" you say? You are truly the epitom of ignorance. Eat this Debmey and tell me tales of "wild and baseless". Read on -
According to almost all the historians, Asma bint Abu Bakr, the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. Asma is reported to die in the 73 AH, when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of Migration to Medina (1 AH). If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at that time, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at the same time. Thus, Aisha - if she got married in 1 AH or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Show me wild and baseless for the above in Red Debmey. Do it.

Originally posted by Debmey at 22-1-2007 11:55 PM:
Besides, anyone who have studied philosophy would have understood Ocaam's razor principle where one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything. Direct records of Aisha's age and Mo's paedophilia from multiple sources corroborate. Taken logically and from a decent philisophical viewpoint, you have no case Fuzzy but to accept that Mo was indeed a paedohile.

I do not think that you bother with philosophy because people who do indulge in it are people who quest and thirst for the truth. That's a fact. You on the other hand run from facts. You cannot apply Ocaam's razor principle here because we need to increase neccessarily to expand what little Bukhari had to say on the Aishah age issue. You have to agree that you have put up very meagre evidences to prop up your paedo charge on the Prophet of Islam aight?  If you cannot do this simple task, it means you lose your paedo charge for good. You sure you wanna go down that road to pitiful failure?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

According to most historians? Who? Based on what? Please show us.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 23-1-2007 01:12 AM
According to most historians? Who? Based on what? Please show us.

First and foremost while holding vigil to your last forage into clever grammar, I do not think I have the time to entertain your diversions here dawg. If you need to know who the historians were I suggest you do a web search yourself. Any normal IQ-ed person will readily know that any historical details coming from a past era had to have authentication, verification and consistency in storyline and record, for that piece of history to run its course to this day. Instead you should channel that energy towards openly running down the record of Jubayr ibn Mut'im. How about it Debmey, would you change course to be back on track?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Oh! Which means you dunno lah.
where is your case?

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Arabs were a primitive lot with little rules to abide. Yet they had some code of ethics that they honored scrupulously. For example, although they fought all the year round, they abstained from hostilities during certain holy months of the year. They also considered Mecca to be a holy city and did not make war against it. A adopted son抯 wife was deemed to be a daughter in law and they would not marry her. Also it was customary that close friends made a pact of brotherhood and considered each other as true brothers. The Prophet disregarded all of these rules anytime they stood between him and his interests or whims.
Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old. But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like.

Sahih Bukhari V.7, B62, N. 37
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza?" He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter). "

Hamza and Abu Bakr both were the foster brothers of Muhammad. But Ayesha must have been too pretty for the Prophet to abide by the codes of ethics and custom.
In the following Hadith he confided to Ahesha that he had dreamed of her before soliciting her from her father.

Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' "
Whether Muhammad had actually such dream or he just said it to please Ayesha is not the point. What matters here is that it indicates that Ayesaha was a baby being 揷arried

Fuzzman

LOL Tell me something that I don't already know? About about telling me something about Jubayr ibn Mut'im? Do you think Jubayr was a fabrication to help increase the true age of Aishah?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

I know Muhamad had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years old as recorded in the hadiths so many times over.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-1-2007 12:02 PM
I know Muhamad had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years old as recorded in the hadiths so many times over.

I would dearly like to beleive as you do too and finally put to rest this issue. But as long as Jubayr ibn Mut'im exists as the first suitor and coupled with your refusal to elaborate more on Jubayr, will only lead to the possiblity that the age factor of Aishah has elements of suspect. C'mon Debmey, let's get over Jubayr so that you can finally claim your really long wait for victory, that is still a long ways off. If you don't, which you surely won't, will lead us Moslems to assume that you fear Jubayr will be the subject of your downfall. So what's it gonna be? You better raise your white flag instead of dragging your smelly red herring all over the place, if you feel you're not up to it.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You didn't name or show me those alledged experts and how they came to that conclusion, so how can we believe you?
Who exactly are those experts you took opinion from?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-1-2007 12:34 AM
You didn't name or show me those alledged experts and how they came to that conclusion, so how can we believe you?
Who exactly are those experts you took opinion from?

You mean to say that Asma is not ten years older than Aishah? Can you change that fact? Show me how? That piece of fact is history just as the ahadiths record a part of history at that time. Are you saying that Jubayr ibn Mut'im is a fabrication too? Yes or No?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Where are you experts and what is their wild opinion based on? Where are the evidences?

Here, evidences that Mohamed was a paedophile.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-1-2007 01:19 AM:
Where are you experts and what is their wild opinion based on? Where are the evidences?

I am happy to note that you have now added a new twist to aid your efforts in winning for you now ask for experts and expert evidences. Your smokescreening tactics they grow by the day. Congratulations Debmey because a growing smokescreen tactical bank means you have no clear straight forward counter-measures. This can be seen in your blatant refusal ito engage the issue of Jubayr.

I am not like you and unlike you I have nothing to hide. We now carry on the issue of the evidences and their origins of the historians.

Number One: Aishah's age.
According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

Number Two:  Aishah aged 15 at the battle of `Uhud.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal.

i.e. "Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hinderance in their movement]."

As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to particpate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic.

i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

Number Three: Asma older than Aisha by 10 years.
According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

The relevant references required are provided below:

According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:

i.e. Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

According to Ibn Kathir:

i.e. "she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

Number Four: For Asma's age at Her Death in 73 AH.
According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:

i.e. "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)

Number Five: Aishah accepts Islam during the first year of Islam.
According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before `umar ibn al-Khattab  (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.
According to Ibn Hisham, Ayesha (ra) was the 20th or the 21st person to enter into the folds of Islam. (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh) While `umar ibn al-khattab was preceded by forty individuals (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

Number Six: Aishah the BIKR.
According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah  (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
The complete reference for this reporting of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.

Number Seven: Aishah was five years younger than Fatimah.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.
Ibn Hajar's original statement, its translation and reference below:

i.e. Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra). (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

Number Eight: Aishah and Jubayr.
Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am  refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
As reported by: Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Urdu, Pg 38, Anjuman Uswa e hasanah

There you have it. You quest and thirst for evidences and historians. So now play your side of the bargain and start asking me about Jubayr ibn Mut'im.

ARI FUZZMAN

Oreng

I read. But i guess debmey still want to be a peeping tom.

Debmey

Number One: Aishah's age.According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

General accepted tradition? By your own imgaination? Where is it written that Aisha was born 8 years before hijrah? None.

Number Two:  Aishah aged 15 at the battle of `Uhud.A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal.i.e. "Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hinderance in their movement]."As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to particpate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic.i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

Really? and when was this battle of uhud? You did not even state it much less show its specified date from records.You think you can cook up wild theories w/o evidence?

Number Three: Asma older than Aisha by 10 years.According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.The relevant references required are provided below:According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:i.e. Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)According to Ibn Kathir:i.e. "she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

Well, you said according to this person and that person. Who the hell are they and can you show me a link where their works are displayed and verifiable?

Number Four: For Asma's age at Her Death in 73 AH.According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:i.e. "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)

Can you link me to a URL where this can be verified? and why shld you accept this bio at all even if it does record it that way?

Number Five: Aishah accepts Islam during the first year of Islam.According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before `umar ibn al-Khattab  (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.According to Ibn Hisham, Ayesha (ra) was the 20th or the 21st person to enter into the folds of Islam. (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh) While `umar ibn al-khattab was preceded by forty individuals (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

Link please, show us the links to Al Riyadh.

Number Six: Aishah the BIKR.According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah  (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".The complete reference for this reporting of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.

Again where is teh link and why shld we accept this record when Al Bukhari contradicts it?

Number Seven: Aishah was five years younger than Fatimah.According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.Ibn Hajar's original statement, its translation and reference below:i.e. Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra). (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

You are always quoting tertiary sources. where are teh primaruy source3s me fren? Where?

Number Eight: Aishah and Jubayr.Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am  refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.As reported by: Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Urdu, Pg 38, Anjuman Uswa e hasanahThere you have it. You quest and thirst for evidences and historians. So now play your side of the bargain and start asking me about Jubayr ibn Mut'im.

Do you know how easy it is for me to refuke your arguments?Where is the link and which verse of Al Tabari's record of this?I can go all the way with you fuzzy and examine the entire timeline based on primary sources if you can produce it.

Here's primary sourcing :


Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Fuzzman

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64.

(Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh)

(Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65

Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

What do the above teach or show you?

ARI FUZZMAN