Contradictions in the bible

Jukebox

Originally posted by WinterNights at 5-1-2004 09:44 AM:
Jukebox,

I believe that many have attempted to explain these 'contradictions' but since quite a few Muslims do not seem to pay heed(I have tried it, way back on page 2 of this thread), naturall ...

WN, didn't you read my signature? And i did offer a truce to SFE so that all attempts to discredit eachotehr's religion to be stopped but he declined. Are you saying that i should just sit and let these idiots attack my religion endlessly?

You think i'm having loads of fun at doing this?

sonny~~

Originally posted by Jukebox at 2004-1-2 10:03 PM:
My replies that did not mention any nicknames would be towards whitepig, otherwise it'll be towards someone else and i'd mention their nicknames or include their questions (like yours). and starting from page 3 i think will be towards whitepig only...that's why i said it's obvious.

yup i can c that ..................................................................................after i gave up readin backward from pg5 back.  like studious student who gonna sit for phd, i read from beginnin to end to get the drift.  sigh

anyway back to business

am intrigue with WHITEPIG's postin on trinity.  but u dont seem to follow it up to MY satisfaction.  its ur thread anyhow.  u can do wot u like  :bg:

peace

[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 5-1-2004 at 03:38 PM ]

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2003-12-14 06:46 AM:
>> McDim and KAveCee are halal and unless you could prove otherwise then shut your trap cause you don't have the slightest idea of what your talkin about. PERIOD!
<<

i have provided ...

eventhough i have doubts about the concept of trinity (of course trinity is a short-nick for plurarism and couldn't be directly found but various verse attest to it) but never the less it is scriptura and can be found in the old/new testament

God is one (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4). The one God has the aspect of three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19).
The Father, the Son, and the Spirit coexist simultaneously (Matt. 3:16-17) from eternity to eternity.
The Father is God (Eph. 1:17; 4:6). The Son is God (Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5). The Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).
The Father is eternal (Isa. 9:6). The Son is eternal (Heb. 1:11-12; 7:3). The Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14).
The Father, Son, and Spirit coinhere and are inseparable (John 14:10-11; 8:29; 14:26; 15:26; Matt. 10:20).
The Three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit&#8212;are one (Isa. 9:6; John 10:30; 2 Cor. 3:17).

The Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit

interestin cut n paste

but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq

btw why no reply to JUKEBOX's comment?  :bg:

peace

The one God has the aspect of three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19).

Originally posted by Jukebox at 2003-12-15 08:59 PM:
your reply &#8211;
Couldn't the verse have been easily written as 'I' and
not 'We'. God needing aNgels to help out with his
creation is absurd.

I believed that I have made you to shut your t ...

your reply &#8211;
eventhough i have doubts about the concept of trinity
(of course trinity is a short-nick for plurarism and
couldn't be directly found but various verse attest to
it) but never the less it is scriptura and can be
found in the old/new testament

Why didn&#8217;t all three churches (Eastern orthodox Greek
Catholic Church, The Roman Catholic Church, and
Protestant Catholic Churches.) agree in unity of the
trinity concept in the 325AD at first? Why Arius
reluctantly signed the doctrine after being forced to
do so? Why are the Unitarian Christians slaughtered
for believing that Jesus was a man and there is only
one true God? The Romans in their pagan religious
believes in the trinity godly figure started by
Nimrod&#8217;s wife &#8211;
all of these were told in the bible, read about it. I
have opened a thread about this.

Hey guys, I got this from some religions of the world site.

"The Qur'an uses words foreign to the Arabic language. These include Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek, Ethiopian, Persian...over 100 in all. This also shows the manner in which Muhammad borrowed stories from merchants as they passed through Mecca.

There is absolutely no doubt among western and Arabic scholars that many variant readings exist for the Qur'an (over 140 for just one sura). Now, that in itself should not be important, except we must remember that Muslim doctrine states that the Qur'an is perfect and that it exists in only one form - that which was handed down to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel or Allah.

"Uthman's standardized version of the Qur'an (the one currently accepted by Islam) has verses missing (over 120 verses from just one sura). This fact is universally recognized. The Qur'an has gone through an "editing" process since the time of the original collection of documents."

"Uthman's standard version is in itself proof of the malleability of the Qur'an...what need is there for a standardized text if no variations exist? Verses have been removed, added, changed...interestingly the Muslim excuse is that Allah may 'change his mind' on certain teachings." As-Suyuti, one of the most renowned commentators of the Qur'an quoted Ibn 'Umar al Khattab' as saying, "Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Qur'an, for how does he know that it is all?  Much of the Qur'an has been lost, thus let him say, 'I have acquired of it what is available.'"(3)

There is no such thing as an 'original' Qur'an...Muhammad spoke the contents of the Qur'an during seizural attacks or when something needed to be done. Sometimes those words would be recorded, sometimes they were not. Often, they were written on leaves or sticks. None of these original writings exist today." There are many traditions that encompass incompatible origins of the Qur'an.  Some traditions believe he dictated the writings of them to "secretaries".   

"The 'heavenly language' of the Qur'an is not only in Muhammad's own tongue, but in the dialect of his own tribe."(4)

"Various archeological digs in Arabia and throughout the Middle East have uncovered [that] Islam is a modern version of the ancient fertility religion of the moon god. Once this is grasped, the rise and history of Islam becomes clear.

The Arab conquests were made possible because the central powers in the Middle East had exhausted themselves in wars against each other. They were not able to fight off wave after wave of Arab armies which subdued entire nations..."(2)

"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc.. These were pagan rites practiced...long before Muhammad was born."(2)

Any comments...Sure got one.

>>interestin cut n paste

but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq

btw why no reply to JUKEBOX's comment
<<<<<<

since when have cari.com appointed adjucators. can i apply to be one?

My wife made me laugh the other day. She said Christians are basically Protestant Jews. The old testament is like the Torah (the first 5 books anyway). If Christ didn't come along preaching forgiveness (the anti eye for an eye campaign) and such there wouldn't be a new testament and we'd still be praying like the Moslems (men and women apart), can't eat pork and missing some skin in the lower regions.

Wait a minute, I am missing some skin in the lower regions. Well that's probably due to the fact that I was born in Adventist Hospital. I didn't even get to keep the darn thing as a souvernir.

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-5 06:39 PM:
>>interestin cut n paste

but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq

btw why no reply to JUKEBOX's comment
<<<<<<

since when have cari.com appointed adjucators. can i apply to be one?

u have a point.  lets start agin

interestin cut n paste as below

but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq  :bg:

peace

Originally posted by whitepig at 2003-12-14 06:46 AM:
>> McDim and KAveCee are halal and unless you could prove otherwise then shut your trap cause you don't have the slightest idea of what your talkin about. PERIOD!
<<

i have provided ...

eventhough i have doubts about the concept of trinity (of course trinity is a short-nick for plurarism and couldn't be directly found but various verse attest to it) but never the less it is scriptura and can be found in the old/new testament

God is one (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4). The one God has the aspect of three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19).
The Father, the Son, and the Spirit coexist simultaneously (Matt. 3:16-17) from eternity to eternity.
The Father is God (Eph. 1:17; 4:6). The Son is God (Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5). The Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).
The Father is eternal (Isa. 9:6). The Son is eternal (Heb. 1:11-12; 7:3). The Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14).
The Father, Son, and Spirit coinhere and are inseparable (John 14:10-11; 8:29; 14:26; 15:26; Matt. 10:20).
The Three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit&#8212;are one (Isa. 9:6; John 10:30; 2 Cor. 3:17).

The Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit

>>but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq  <<

so don't calll Jesus god. simple. i don't call jesus god. i call jesus as yeshua.

thank you.

can i go back to sleep now?

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-6 02:01 PM:
>>but i dont c no jesus bein called god in those verses right?  
can u elaborate.  tq  <<

so don't calll Jesus god. simple. i don't call jesus god. i call jesus as yeshua.

thank ...

inother words ure bein untruthful right?
when u said as such that The one God has the aspect of three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19)., since those verses never indicate or imply jesus is god right?  :re:

>>when u said as such that The one God has the aspect of three梩he Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19)., since those verses never indicate or imply jesus is god right?<<<

yes and no. Jesus is part of godhead since Jesus is the son.

Jesus said ..", Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:56-58). This was hundreds of years after the days of Abraham. 揂nd God spoke to Moses and said to him: 慖 am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD (Hebrew YHWH), I was not known to them挃 Ex(6:2-3). "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." John 1:10.

i am not interested in arguing semantics with you or juke or anyone else. i am only interested in pasting Quran discrepancies and half-baked verses.

I don't care if there are a million errors in the bible. And you similarly won't care the same about the quran. Even if the bible has errors i think it is still more believable than a book which says there are 72 virgins waiting to fellate you in heaven. I mean , if that's true it is really HEAVENLY but how much fellation can one do with a couple of girls let alone 72? Is there viagra in your heaven?

gimme a break.

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-6 07:00 PM:
>>when u said as such that The one God has the aspect of three&#8212;the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19)., since those verses never indicate or imply jesus is god right?<<<

yes and no. Jesus is part of godhead since Jesus is the son.

Jesus said ..", Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:56-58). This was hundreds of years after the days of Abraham. &#8220;And God spoke to Moses and said to him: &#8216;I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD (Hebrew YHWH), I was not known to them&#8217;&#8221; Ex(6:2-3). "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." John 1:10.

when u said jesus is part of godhead, that means hes god right?

how do u put 2 n 2 together that jesus is god when he said i am?

right, god has spoken to moses to declare hes god - i am the lord.  but he never says hes jesus right?  that jesus bein god then god = jesus right?  how come?

n yes the jews call their god yahweh, but i dont c em acceptin their yahweh as 3 godheads the father, the son n the holy spirit right?  

>>when u said jesus is part of godhead, that means hes god right?<<
No.

>>how do u put 2 n 2 together that jesus is god when he said i am?<<
I don't know how to put 2 & 2 together. Even if i write a 500 page essay on this.. it would't be satisfactorily answered.

To each his/her own. Your the master of your own destiny and good luck with the virgins..

Jukebox

Originally posted by casio666 at 2004-1-5 06:07 PM:
Hey guys, I got this from some religions of the world site.

The author must be living in Lala land :re: Originally there were read in 7 Arabian dialects not languages.


Book 004, Number 1787:
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported: I was in the mosque when a man entered and prayed and recited (the Qur'in) in a style to which I objected. Then another man entered (the mosque) and recited in a style different from that of his companion. When we had finished the prayer, we all went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: This man recited in a style to which I objected, and the other entered and recited in a style different from that of his companion. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked them to recite and so they recited, and the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) expressed approval of their affairs (their modes of recitation). and there occurred In my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saw how I was affected (by a wrong idea), he struck my chest, whereupon I broke into sweating and felt as though I were looking at Allah with fear. He (the Holy Prophet) said to me: Ubayy. a message was sent to me to recite the Qur'an in one dialect, and I replied: Make (things) easy for my people. It was conveyed to me for the second time that it should be recited in two dialects. I again replied to him: Make affairs easy for my people. It was again conveyed to me for the third time to recite in seven dialects And (I was further told): You have got a seeking for every reply that I sent you, which you should seek from Me. I said: O Allah! forgive my people, forgive my people, and I have deferred the third one for the day on which the entire creation will turn to me, including even Ibrahim (peace be upon him) (for intercession).

Book 004, Number 1789:
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said: Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.

Jukebox

Originally posted by WinterNights at 2004-1-5 09:33 AM:
-->As I understand, during the Uthmanic reign, the compilation of the Koran was headed by a committee led by Zaid b. Thabith. The result being a 'final' product of the Koran, however this did not suit well with some companions of Muhammad such as Ibn Masood and Ali Ibn Abi Talib. Ibn Masood(Sahih al-Muslim), an apparant leading authority in Koranic text had his own version of the Koran and friction appeared between the caliph and him in regards to the two conflicting texts(refer to Ibn al-Athir, Kamil, Vol III 86-87). You could refer to Kitab al-Masahif by Ibn Abi Dawood for your own reading and conclusions.

Care to suport your claims with evidence and facts, rather than 'As i understand'

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-7 10:05 AM:
>>when u said jesus is part of godhead, that means hes god right?<<
No.

so u dont think jesus is god right?  so wot exactly u mean by godhead?

>>how do u put 2 n 2 together that jesus is god when he said i am?<<
I don't know how to put 2 & 2 together. Even if i write a 500 page essay on this.. it would't be satisfactorily answered.

inother words u dont have faith in wot u believe in

To each his/her own. Your the master of your own destiny and good luck with the virgins..

u can heckle me with virgin, virginity etc but it wouldnt gonna make ur respond the more blessed virgin in originality n wisdom but buzzin impotent  

.. which part of the 72 virgins do you find hard (!) to believe?

sonny~~

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-7 03:46 PM:
.. which part of the 72 virgins do you find hard (!) to believe?

inother words uve no  HARDintelligent response why ure bein untruthful bout jesus bein god right?
inother words uve to resort to hecklin the muslims n islam to keep ur faith erect right?  as expect  

Jukebox

whitepig wrote

i am not interested in arguing semantics with you or juke or anyone else. i am only interested in pasting Quran discrepancies and half-baked verses.

You can't defend the contradictions presented in this forum board, that's why you are acting like SFE...running away from tight spots.

BTW....sonny is not a muslim. He's a christian that does not believe in the trinity mumbo jumbo. This is interesting...i'll hang on for a while with my contradiction posts while i watch sonny and you...there are hundreds more waiting.

>>You can't defend the contradictions presented in this forum board, that's why you are acting like SFE...running away from tight spots.<<

i have already posted verses after verses. what more do you want? a sermon?

Who cares whether sonny is a moslem or a jew or a catholic or a mormon?

As i have said - even if there are 1000 translational errors in the bible - i still find it more credible than books which espouses the view that 72 virgins awaits us in paradise. No dream but it is time to wake up.

If people want to believe in the trinity - who are we to object. if people believe praying to the kaaba will bring them closer to god - who are we to object?

I will continue to eat pork, ogle at nice girls and drink wine. You people are everything we are not. to each his own.