The evil that had blinded Muslims

eastrun · Post time 22-3-2007 09:30 PM

6)
OK since you have  requested in several times let me state a few here.

1.
(1) God created the Heaven first or, the Earth first (?)
      Which one was created first? As you will see in the verses below,          Allah at one time says that Earth was created first and another time          He says that the Heaven was created first.
      (Quran-2:29): It is He who hath created for you all things that are          on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven          firmaments (Skies)

eastrun · Post time 22-3-2007 09:31 PM

9)I don't know about that but as far as I know John the bapthist was slained by Herod while Jesus was crucified by the Roman. So your historical facts are misguided by your Islamic teachings which proves that there are flaws in the Quran.

My answer:
In this case I didn't wrong, because I said the Jews slayed the prophets, BUT YOU SAID THE PROPHETS SLAYED the JEWS..You don't read my statements carefully, Malunya...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10)
Does it not strike the readers as somewhat amusing that Muhammad just so happened toreceive a "revelation" to defend against his enemies right around the time thatthe Ansar pledged to defend him with their own lives? It seems quite obvious to those ofus who are not Muslims that the command of Allah to fight the unbelievers right around the time of the second Aqabah is no mere coincidence. It was a deliberate maneuver onMuhammad抯 part to justify his going to Medina and prepare for war against theMeccans now that he had people who were willing to support his cause. The Meccans,therefore, had a very good reason to be afraid of Muhammad and his companions since itwasn抰 for peace that Muhammad fled to Medina, but for war.

Dr. Sobhy also quoted a Muslim scholar, Zarkashi, who said:

Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. (Ibid., p. 270)

My answer:
I don't think so a Muslims would say something that The Holy Quran not mentioned it.I asked you...before you go further, read the Holy Quran first.But you don't listen.Read the Holy Quran first before you make commentary and before you follow other sources.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11)
Please do not make me laugh with your stupid remarks. Splitting the moon was a fairy tail added to one of the chronicles of Islam.
The main problem is that it contradicts the Quran       itself. In various places Muhammad admitted that he could not have or       did not have to perform miracles to prove himself. When asked to perform       miracles his response was:
      Glory be to my Lord; am I       aught but a mortal messenger?? Q.       17: 93
      In another place Muhammad put the following words       in the mouth of Allah:
      And those who disbelieve       say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are       only a warner.Q.       13: 07
      Muhammad insisted that even though other prophets       had miracles, his only miracle is the Quran. So when Muslims claim that       Muhammad performed miracles, they are going against the Quran itself.

My answer:
AHakz..Jesus...in the Holy Bible also suffered the same thing.There is time that the Jews asked him to perform miracles, but he is not able to show to them.But when Allah gave him permission, he is able to show at the other time.Same to Muhammad..when the musyrikin of Mecca asked him to perform miracle, he was not able to, but at the other time with Allah permission he able to perform the miracle.The miracle not because of the will of the prophets but because of the will of Allah.He chose the right time to make the prophets able to show his Signs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12)
So to speak, only GOD knows if Mohammed was chosen as a prophet because only a fool keep telling that he is, which he himslef doesn't know. He only believes what the Arabs had told in a book written by them but the truth is only known to those who wrote the book 1400 years ago. But can you recall them back to confirm the truth? Surely not so this question remains for ever " Was Mohammed truely a prophet chosen by GOD"?

My answer:
Barney changed the topic..Barney changed the topic..after he has failed to proof that the terrorists are Muslims. If you want to raise about the things that already happened, then why don't you ask the same questions to your monks.Were your rishis the truly prophets sent by Allah/God?.My religion is full of tolerancy, therefore we will say yes.All the prophets came from Allah including the Final Messenger...Muhammad S.A.W who brought the truth and re-compile the previous revelations

[ Last edited by eastrun at 22-3-2007 09:39 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 23-3-2007 07:27 AM

Reply #120 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
As I told you, I have no worry if you have what I have long before
this,Explained and surely you understood.No need to be repeated because
after so many times, you should be able to catch up the message.Unless
you are slow...

Copy the Code

No, you your explanation is always that Islam came to rewrite and re confirm and this and that but in the end you say Islam is for mankind and all must adhere to it otherwise it is hellfire. Muslims had been brainwashed to stick to this till doomsday.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
I don't think so...like I have told you before...only Moses and Jesus
(in Christian view) have direct contact with Allah. So, it doesn't a
matter for me because Allah can make many choices to give His
revelations.Only you think that is a problem.

Copy the Code

No, why would Allah need an assistant to bring down his message when he could have spoken directly with Mohammed. This had put Islam in doubt. GOD had spoken to Abraham, Noah and all othe prophets including Moses and Jesus directly but why only send an assistant to Mohammed. Was GOD reluctant to speak to Mohammed or was Mohammed making up all this? Need to think about it uh!?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
You are crazy..You forgot who created you. God is the First and The
Last. He is not created but He is the Creator. The name of God first
uttered by man and first knew by man, but you forgot, who gave you the
will to utter His name and to know Him.Of course Himself.Think!.He
created you and He made you know Him, because He is the Almighty that
should be praised because He has right upon you.

Copy the Code

That is your perception of GOD but not me my boy. You talk so much about the creator and yet you do not know him. You do not know how he would look like, you do not know where he his right now and you do not believe he has the power to take a form of his desire. So how could you know your creator when you do not know such simple facts about him. Did the creator ask you to live in ignorance for the rest of your miserable life? Tell me who has a better knowledge of GOD? Muslims or Hindus?

.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
But you have to think first and make calculation...which religion has
the highest percentage of development. Islam is the fastest growing
religion and the number of followers become 1.2 billions within 1400
years only...overtook the Hindusm which existed thousands years
ago.Like I have told you, of the Eternal God, will be the first.Because
the religion helped by God. So...in next years, Islam will overtakes
Christian.InsyaAllah...only hundred thousands followers different.(the
gap) between Islam and Christian.

Copy the Code

Now can you see why I say Islam is a relgion of the ignorants. You think so? Having the highest numer would not be a certificate to authentication. It only means it has laws that would punish apostates. Ask the Saudi Government to declare openly that apostates would not be persecuted or killed and you'll see millions of Muslims converting to Christianity and other religions. Can your relgious leader take this challange? Would they risk losing millions of Muslims to other faith? Do not boast and blow your own trumpet. It is a disease with Mulslim these days to blow their own trumpet.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Before this you said that humans are so special...so can have direct
contact with God.Then, now, why do you need idols in other to please
and connect with Him?.Muslims have direct contact with Allah when we
are praying.You cannot imagine how calm we have felt when we perform
solat(pray).Meaning that Allah is so near. If you want to feel the
calmness...You are welcome to perform Solah with us and may Allah
guides you.InsyaAllah.

Copy the Code

The problem with you is being half baked human would always think small. This practice of idol worship were meant for those who have no knowledge of consentration. A peasant working in the field for his daily meal would not have the time to sit down and mediate upon GOD. He has a duty to his family which is atmost important then solat. While he works the field he too would think of GOD and at the same time worry on how he is going to protect his family from next draught and hunger. GOD would be more close to these people than those who so do solat. That is the problem with Islam coz it had not thought Muslims the fundamental value of life. The practice of idol worship in temples and home of Hindus is to remind them that GOD is with us all te time so do not worry and carry on with your duties to your families and let GOD take care of the rest. I feel sorry for Mulims as they are ignorant of such matters.

barney50 · Post time 23-3-2007 10:55 AM

continuation:

by eastrun:
Cut and paste...let's see one by one:
the 1st verse:
Ayoo...I really don't understand you la..Is it a problem to think
which was created first?.It is up to Allah la whether He wants to
created the Skies first or the Earth first.The moral of the verses, it
is not contradict...but tells that He is the Creator, not the Created.
Those verses showed He is able to create..not like those idols which
has been created.

Copy the Code

Meaningless explanation. It contradicts because it is not sure in how many days the universe was created.

the 2nd verse:
No.. He created all in one package...That's why He said He created
the heavens AND the Earth AND ALL THINGS BETWEEN THEM In Six days.He
didn't do one by one.When He created the earth and gave the nourishment
(6days) but He is able to create the heavens on THE SAME TIME HE GAVE
THE NOURISHMENT.Do you think He is not able to do two tasks at a time?.

Copy the Code

That is not the question here. He could have created the whole universe even in one day but the Quran said it differently. One verse says six days and another says seven days and even says in eight days. So, not very sure in may many days and so it is a contradiction as far as research is concern. A divine book cannot have such mistakes then it cannot be a divine book.

The maths:
He created the earth: 2days
He nourish the earth : 4days (within the 4 days, He is able to use 2
days to create the heavens too..besides giving the nourishment to the
earth). On the 6th day, when the nourishment was completed, the heavens
were completed too
So, He did the tasks within 6 days.

Copy the Code

Hello! No need to give your own expertise here. We are discussing about what is written in the Quran and lets keep to that fact alone instead of giving your own. The contradiction in the Quran is obvious and you cannot defend by saying something esle. It has to be precious weather it was 6 days, 7 days or 8 days. But it could not and so it is a contradiction.

the 3rd verse:
You don't know the real meaning.. a day of Allah is 1000years
for human, but those who rejected the faith (also human) will feel that
a day of Allah is equal as 50000years on that Day, because they feel so
tough..because Allah judges them with no Mercy and very details.They
want to escape, but they are not able to..so they feel...the time moves
very slow like 50000years.Get it?.

Copy the Code

Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in aday the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years. Does this explains what you have said? You are making a foo of yourself by misquoting the verse. Where does it say those who rejected would think it is 50,000 years? You always try to tewist and turn when your are cornered. You do not want to admit that religious bigots of the time had made a bluder when writing such verse and it is obvious that if it is from GOD there would be no mistake.

the 4th verse:
The muddy spring is referred to the people.They are those who
rejected faith.So Allah put them on the same level of the muddy spring
as a degradation statement.They are on the West side, therefore, they
are on the side which the sun setted. Is it a problem for you?.Like I
said before..:
"Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well
as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord;
but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?"
By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path;
but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the
path),-"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:26)

Copy the Code

Another lame and meaningless excuse. The problem with Muslims of that period is they interpreted the Quran according to their own brain level and it seems the senario is happening now here. When Mohammed saw the Sun going down he reeally though the sun was going down and so made his scribes write soem poietic verse to tell the people that the sun sets over the muddy spring. At that period he did not know that the earth moves around the sun and to us it would seem like the sun is going down. No scientific truth in the Quran but some childish thoughts. You cannot replace hat has been written and by you trying to balance such contradiction owuld only make matters worse for Muslims. What stupid statement is that saying Alah make some stray and some right path. What you Allah is such a bias GOD? Get hold of our self before you become a looni with such statements.

Furthermore, when we watch the sunset, they will look like sunk into
the earth.But does it show the sun really sunk?.No.. and the verse
didn't say that Zulkarnain reached the place WHEN the sun setted.So, it
can be when you watch the place faraway, you will look LIKE the sun
sinks into the place.
And..did Al-QURAN said the resting place is the destruction of the
sun?.Show me..who ask you to follow the Mullah before refer to the
Quran?.Stupid.

Copy the Code

The Atlantic Ocean is not muddy or murky, it is blue-green. It is not aspring, but an ocean. The sun does not go down into an ocean. Mostimportantly, Alexander, Cyrus I of Persia, and Yemeni kings never wentto the Atlantic Ocean, and Sura 18:83-86 says that Zul Qarnain saw orobserved this.

If this was not physically true, but just a metaphorfor something or other, then the Qur抋n failed to communicate that itwas not true, and this was misleading. Furthermore, nobody can say forsure what this would be a metaphor for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
What you showed to me was an assumption.Not a reality...which you
yourself not very sure whether you have shown to me really happened or
not.Furthermore, the hadith you quoted showed that no verses of the
Quran have destroyed.Because the TAHFIZ is there to guard the
scripture.You can test the tahfiz if you dare.

Copy the Code

What thafiz? Those who memorizeed the Quran during Mohammed's time are all dead and gone and it is not 1400 years after their death. What thafiz are you talking about. Those who had memorize it now would only repeat what is written in the book but not what was recited during Mohammed's time. Get that into your head.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
You got me wrong...BEFORE THIS...I have said that the Quran is the
continuation of the previous scriptures, other than that, it RECORRECT,
RE-ADD the previous scriptures..Because Allah sent the new laws period
by period.I have repeated so many times and what can I do...you still
said the Quran is the copy of the previous books..Furthermore..you have
no confidence with your own scriptures, now you want to comment other's
scriptures.Heheheh

Copy the Code

What confidence are you talking about? Being an idiot by adopting every world is confident? So you admit you are one. Not knowing the real truth and believing every word written by bigots is not smartness but foolishness. We know which was GOD's and which was written by man. Unlike who Muslims who cannot differentiate between GOD's and man's writing. Hahahahahahahhhhhhh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
Explained and repeated.The hadith is the explanation PHYSICALLY.If
you just read, you cannot understand perfectly in PHYSICALLY.The laws
in the Quran, how to perform PHYSICALLY, refer to the Prophet.Still
hard to understand that? and...When did I say the Holy Quran is not the
book that full of Wisdom?.

Copy the Code

It is obvious and we know the truth that Muslims have been taken for a ride by the Arabs. If Allah the All Knower could not state what Muslims need to do in life and that only his prophet should tell proves Islam is a fake religion pretending to be a religion from GOD. The GOD we know would not just give you a book without proper explanation as to how a follower should conduct himslef. Otherwise he cannot be GOD. Could he?

eastrun · Post time 23-3-2007 10:12 PM

1)
No, you your explanation is always that Islam came to rewrite and re confirm and this and that but in the end you say Islam is for mankind and all must adhere to it otherwise it is hellfire. Muslims had been brainwashed to stick to this till doomsday.

My answer:
Yes it is for mankind because it recompiled all previous laws into one.Yes I said it RE-CONFIRM, RE-CORRECT and I add RE-ADD the previous scriptures.I didn't say the QuraN RE-WRITE...When did I say that?.So it is for mankind and complete.Just say la that you cannot accept that Quran is better than your incomplete Books which existed thousands years ago before Allah sent down the Quran.Hahahahah

"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
That is your perception of GOD but not me my boy. You talk so much about the creator and yet you do not know him. You do not know how he would look like, you do not know where he his right now and you do not believe he has the power to take a form of his desire. So how could you know your creator when you do not know such simple facts about him. Did the creator ask you to live in ignorance for the rest of your miserable life? Tell me who has a better knowledge of GOD? Muslims or Hindus

My answer:
For this Quran got the answer in one short surah:

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;And there is none like unto Him."(Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1~4)

The Surah explains that whatever you see is not like Allah.Meaning that you see moon or sun or idols, that all are not HIM.He is the Eternal and Absolute.He has no son and not begotten.He is everywhere and and He is near us:

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:186)

He is not created but the Creator...meaning that He is the Most Powerful:

"It is He Who hath produced you from a single person: here is a place of sojourn and a place of departure: We detail Our signs for people who understand."
(Surah Al-An'aam 6:98)

Hahahaha...Of course Islam better than Hindusm because Islam taught the followers to praise the AlMighty God.Where as, Hindusm puts God at the same level of His creations and claimed they created the God.Make God looks useless and weak.HAHAHAHA

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
No, why would Allah need an assistant to bring down his message when he could have spoken directly with Mohammed. This had put Islam in doubt. GOD had spoken to Abraham, Noah and all othe prophets including Moses and Jesus directly but why only send an assistant to Mohammed. Was GOD reluctant to speak to Mohammed or was Mohammed making up all this? Need to think about it uh

My answer:
Only Moses was able to speak and received the revelations from Allah and other prophets received the revelations through Gabriel from Allah. For Example Zakariya:

"While he (Zakariya)was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(Allah) doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."(Surah Al-Imran 3:39)

The verse explained that Allah didn't speak direct to Zakariya, a prophet, but He used Gabriel.Other prophet also Allah gave them through Gabriel.Furthermore Allah explained:

"And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms."(Surah Al-Isra' 17:55)

It is up to Allah to put a prophet higher or lower than other prophets.So, what is problem now?.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Now can you see why I say Islam is a relgion of the ignorants. You think so? Having the highest numer would not be a certificate to authentication. It only means it has laws that would punish apostates. Ask the Saudi Government to declare openly that apostates would not be persecuted or killed and you'll see millions of Muslims converting to Christianity and other religions. Can your relgious leader take this challange? Would they risk losing millions of Muslims to other faith? Do not boast and blow your own trumpet. It is a disease with Mulslim these days to blow their own trumpet

My answer:
Really?. Show me the laws of Killing apostate...surely from the Holy Quran...where Allah instructed you to kill the apostate BLINDLY.The laws not exist therefore the Saudi Government won't make such stupid declaration.Don't blow your own trumpet with something that not exist in my scripture.When people see the false facts you have uttered, InsyaAllah they will move and embrace Islam.Because Islam taught about peace.But before that, of course they have to move first with thier own wills to discover themselves:

"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-anfaal 8:53)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
The problem with you is being half baked human would always think small. This practice of idol worship were meant for those who have no knowledge of consentration. A peasant working in the field for his daily meal would not have the time to sit down and mediate upon GOD. He has a duty to his family which is atmost important then solat. While he works the field he too would think of GOD and at the same time worry on how he is going to protect his family from next draught and hunger. GOD would be more close to these people than those who so do solat. That is the problem with Islam coz it had not thought Muslims the fundamental value of life. The practice of idol worship in temples and home of Hindus is to remind them that GOD is with us all te time so do not worry and carry on with your duties to your families and let GOD take care of the rest. I feel sorry for Mulims as they are ignorant of such matters

My answer:
I didn't say that Allah only came to Muslims when we performs Solat.The Solat is the way to ask help from Allah:

"O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:153)

Allah didn't ask you to perform Solat until you forgot your life responsiblities.He said:

"But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee, the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world: but do thou good, as Allah has been good to thee, and seek not (occasions for) mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief."(Al-Qasas 28:77)

Allah with us anywhere

The idols not able to move therefore how can they be with you all the time?.Furthermore they are the one who need you around in order to protect themselves.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6)
That is not the question here. He could have created the whole universe even in one day but the Quran said it differently. One verse says six days and another says seven days and even says in eight days. So, not very sure in may many days and so it is a contradiction as far as research is concern. A divine book cannot have such mistakes then it cannot be a divine book.

My answer:
Nowhere in the Holy Quran said that He created the heavens and earth in SEVEN or EIGHT days.He said six days:

"He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things)."(Surah Al-Furqan 25:59) and those verses you quoted before.No contradiction on that

[ Last edited by eastrun at 23-3-2007 11:04 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 23-3-2007 10:58 PM

7)
Hello! No need to give your own expertise here. We are discussing about what is written in the Quran and lets keep to that fact alone instead of giving your own. The contradiction in the Quran is obvious and you cannot defend by saying something esle. It has to be precious weather it was 6 days, 7 days or 8 days. But it could not and so it is a contradiction.

My answer:
Read the whole Surah first.Did Allah said He created the earth for two days...and then WAITED UNTIL THE TWO DAYS FINISHED,and he nourished the earth,AND THEN HE WAITED UNTIL THE FOUR DAYS FINISHED and He moved to the skies?.
NO!!. He said He created the earth in two days, nourished for four days and built the skies for TWO DAYS.He DIDN'T WAIT, FOR EACH PROCESS TO FINISH AND MOVED TO OTHERS.HE DIDN'T SAY THAT.He did THEM ALL IN A TIME.

By the way, I don't see the verses you quoted before saying that Allah created the heavens and the earth other than six days.You quoted the verses and now you forgot.HAHAHAHA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8)
Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in aday the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years. Does this explains what you have said? You are making a foo of yourself by misquoting the verse. Where does it say those who rejected would think it is 50,000 years? You always try to tewist and turn when your are cornered. You do not want to admit that religious bigots of the time had made a bluder when writing such verse and it is obvious that if it is from GOD there would be no mistake.

My answer:
I quote the verses below to explain to you that the verse you quoted are for those who rejected the Faith!.From the same surah:

"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall-"
"The Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,-"
"(A Penalty) from Allah, Lord of the Ways of Ascent."
"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:"(Surah Al-Ma'aarij 70:1~4)

From the first verse Allah already talked about the questioner (the kafir) which asked Allah about the punishments that He promised.So the fifty thousand years are for the kafirs because Allah will judge them very details because of their sins and etc,

AND...Read more...all the while, Allah talked about the kafirs..so the verse for sure for the kafirs that asked Him the punishment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9)
Another lame and meaningless excuse. The problem with Muslims of that period is they interpreted the Quran according to their own brain level and it seems the senario is happening now here. When Mohammed saw the Sun going down he reeally though the sun was going down and so made his scribes write soem poietic verse to tell the people that the sun sets over the muddy spring. At that period he did not know that the earth moves around the sun and to us it would seem like the sun is going down. No scientific truth in the Quran but some childish thoughts. You cannot replace hat has been written and by you trying to balance such contradiction owuld only make matters worse for Muslims. What stupid statement is that saying Alah make some stray and some right path. What you Allah is such a bias GOD? Get hold of our self before you become a looni with such statements.

My answer:

I have explained to you that the muddy spring is the PARABLE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT REJECTED FAITH WHICH ZULKARNAIN MET NEAR THE SUN SET.Because Allah said:

"Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:26)

Read the last part of the verse "BUT HE CAUSES NOT TO STRAY,EXCEPT THOSE WHO FORSAKE (THE PATH)...meaning that because you forsake the path, you get to stray.So it is your fault not Allah.

Muhammad said by the Allah permission in Surah Yaasiin (36th):

"It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)."(Surah Yaasiin 36:40)

The verse explained that the earth is round in shape and the Moon and Sun alternating each other around the Earth.So, what you claimed is useless...HAHAHAHA...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10)
The Atlantic Ocean is not muddy or murky, it is blue-green. It is not aspring, but an ocean. The sun does not go down into an ocean. Mostimportantly, Alexander, Cyrus I of Persia, and Yemeni kings never wentto the Atlantic Ocean, and Sura 18:83-86 says that Zul Qarnain saw orobserved this.

If this was not physically true, but just a metaphorfor something or other, then the Qur抋n failed to communicate that itwas not true, and this was misleading. Furthermore, nobody can say forsure what this would be a metaphor for

My answer:
HAHAHA...When did I talk about ocean?.I have explained to you...You went faraway from the topic...which I never said about Zulkarnain went to the Atlantic ocean and etc.HAHAHAHAHA.You mislead yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11)
What thafiz? Those who memorizeed the Quran during Mohammed's time are all dead and gone and it is not 1400 years after their death. What thafiz are you talking about. Those who had memorize it now would only repeat what is written in the book but not what was recited during Mohammed's time. Get that into your head

My answer:

Not all thafizs died during Muhammad period and during that time they become the guardian by Allah permission to guard the Quran from corruption.Every period even after Muhammad died, the tahfizs exist and keep memorizing the scripture,never once in the period the tahfizs died in one shot.Until now the existence of tahfizs never stopped. You can try those thafizs..Please do so...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12)
What confidence are you talking about? Being an idiot by adopting every world is confident? So you admit you are one. Not knowing the real truth and believing every word written by bigots is not smartness but foolishness. We know which was GOD's and which was written by man. Unlike who Muslims who cannot differentiate between GOD's and man's writing. Hahahahahahahhhhhhh

My answer:
It is better than the scriptures that existed thousands years before Quran and yet incomplete.Then, tried to be the scriptures of all mankind.Rubbish!.Muhammad is an 'ummi'.He doesn;t know how to write.Furthermore...like I said before, God didn't write the verses, but He sent to the prophet, and the prophet explained and the disciples noted down.God is not human, therefore He is not writing..Hahahhaha..The idols not able to speak, not able to write and not able to sent anything, therefore will you claimed your scriptures wrote by those idols?.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13)
It is obvious and we know the truth that Muslims have been taken for a ride by the Arabs. If Allah the All Knower could not state what Muslims need to do in life and that only his prophet should tell proves Islam is a fake religion pretending to be a religion from GOD. The GOD we know would not just give you a book without proper explanation as to how a follower should conduct himslef. Otherwise he cannot be GOD. Could he?

My answer:
For example:
"O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful."(Surah Al-Maa'idah 5:6)

Allah told using the Holy Quran on how to perform ablution before we pray.

Then Muhammad showed PHYSICALLY..like how many times to wash each part of the body and etc.So, that it can be seen and it becomes clear to the followers.Understand?.

ALLAH KNOWS BEST!.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 23-3-2007 11:00 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 24-3-2007 06:04 PM

Reply #125 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
Yes it is for mankind because it recompiled all previous laws into
one.Yes I said it RE-CONFIRM, RE-CORRECT and I add RE-ADD the previous
scriptures.I didn't say the QuraN RE-WRITE...When did I say that?.So it
is for mankind and complete.Just say la that you cannot accept that
Quran is better than your incomplete Books which existed thousands
years ago before Allah sent down the Quran.Hahahahah
"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)

Copy the Code

You think that whatever your Quran had said is the solomen truth. Did you analyse why it had been written as such or why it must assimilate the Old Testaments? No, you won't because doing would put you in trouble with your religion bigots. So, it ws fear that compled you to accept any crap dished out by your Quranic verses and misinterpreted by your ullamas. Pathetic man!

Psychopathic Vandalism?
GERD-R. Puin speaks with disdain about the traditional willingness, on thepart of Muslim and Western scholars, to accept the conventional understandingof the Koran. "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,'or'clear,'" he says. "But if you look at it, you will notice that everyfifthsentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims -- andOrientalists -- will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact isthat a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible.This is what has caused the traditionalanxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible -- ifit can't even be understood in Arabic -- then it's not translatable.People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear butobviously is not -- as even speakers of Arabic will tell you -- thereis a contradiction. Something else must be going on."

http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran3.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
For this Quran got the answer in one short surah:

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;Allah, the Eternal,Absolute;He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;And there is none likeunto Him."(Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1~4)

The Surah explains that whatever you see is not like Allah.Meaningthat you see moon or sun or idols, that all are not HIM.He is theEternal and Absolute.He has no son and not begotten.He is everywhereand and He is near us:

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): Ilisten to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let themalso, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they maywalk in the right way."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:186)[/code]

So, the Quran contradicts itself when in the OT it is said man was made in GOD's image. If HE is everywhere than we are HIM. But Muslims of 7th century had no brain to understand this verse but simply made their own conclusion that they were right in their interpretation. And so the trend continued to this very day among Muslims who think translaters of the 7th century were right. Pathetic!

He is not created but the Creator...meaning that He is the Most Powerful:
"It is He Who hath produced you from a single person: here is a
place of sojourn and a place of departure: We detail Our signs for
people who understand."
(Surah Al-An'aam 6:98)
Hahahaha...Of course Islam better than Hindusm because Islam taught
the followers to praise the AlMighty God.Where as, Hindusm puts God at
the same level of His creations and claimed they created the God.Make
God looks useless and weak.HAHAHAHA

Copy the Code

OM Bhur-Bhuvah-Svah Tat savitur varenyam Bhargo devasva dhimahi Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat.

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;
      Who has created the Universe;
      Who is worthy of Worship;
      Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;
      Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;
      May He enlighten our Intellect.

Does that verse above makes equal with GOD. Heh! Learn to read our scriptures nsraed of making assumption of your own. As I have said before and I'll say it now, we have it all and there is no need for another book to teach us. That is the point I wis to drive to Muslims. You religion was created to siut the enviorment and cultural aspects of the Arabs and not any other society outside the desert. Get that inot your think head.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

barney50 · Post time 24-3-2007 06:34 PM

continue from #127

by eastrun:
Only Moses was able to speak and received the revelations from Allah
and other prophets received the revelations through Gabriel from Allah.
For Example Zakariya:
"While he (Zakariya)was standing in prayer in the chamber, the
angels called unto him: "(Allah) doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya,
witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble,
chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."(Surah Al-Imran 3:39)

Copy the Code

The above verse is not direct but told by someone call Al'Imran. Any verse told by so and so is only heresay and not something from the divine. I'm not a fool like to to accept such.

The verse explained that Allah didn't speak direct to Zakariya, a
prophet, but He used Gabriel.Other prophet also Allah gave them through
Gabriel.Furthermore Allah explained:
"And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms."(Surah Al-Isra' 17:55)
It is up to Allah to put a prophet higher or lower than other prophets.So, what is problem now?.

Copy the Code

The problem is loks like Allah too parcticed the cast system. To the higher cast he spoke direct and to the lower cast he send his messange Gabrial. And to my undertanding from the above verse Mohammed was a low cast. Hehhehehe......

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Really?. Show me the laws of Killing apostate...surely from the Holy
Quran...where Allah instructed you to kill the apostate BLINDLY.The
laws not exist therefore the Saudi Government won't make such stupid
declaration.Don't blow your own trumpet with something that not exist
in my scripture.When people see the false facts you have uttered,
InsyaAllah they will move and embrace Islam.Because Islam taught about
peace.But before that, of course they have to move first with thier own
wills to discover themselves:
"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed
on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily
Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-anfaal 8:53)

Copy the Code

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
Bukhari, volume 9, #57
No matter what you say it is there in bold and you cannot go on bluffing non Muslims it does not exist. Why do you Musims love to lie? Is it because Mohammed sanctioned lies? Aren't you afraid that lying is a sin and GOD would punish those who deceive?
Muslims are cunning when question by non muslims you say the Quran does not say so but when it happens you show the syariah and call for death penalty. Cunning are the Musims their prophet was cunning and the Quran too teaches how to attack infidels by hinding in the bush and ambush. Read it as it is in your scripture. HYPOCRATE!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
I didn't say that Allah only came to Muslims when we performs Solat.The Solat is the way to ask help from Allah:
"O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:153)
Allah didn't ask you to perform Solat until you forgot your life responsiblities.He said:
"But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee,
the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world: but do
thou good, as Allah has been good to thee, and seek not (occasions for)
mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief."(Al-Qasas 28:77)
Allah with us anywhere
The idols not able to move therefore how can they be with you all
the time?.Furthermore they are the one who need you around in order to
protect themselves.

Copy the Code

The idols do not move but the power or energy of GOD is tapped onto the Idol. Devotees facing the idol would get the grace of GOD and not the idol. I've been to a Mosque and felt nothing but when I steped into a temple I feel the spiritual grace and presence of GOD. The feel of comfort, peace and grace of GOD is felt. That is the difference between the Mosque and temple.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Nowhere in the Holy Quran said that He created the heavens and earth in SEVEN or EIGHT days.He said six days:
"He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days,
and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most
Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things)."(Surah Al-Furqan 25:59) and those verses you quoted before.No contradiction on that

Copy the Code

I quoted the verse and volumes still you deny. May be there is a different Quran from yours. So, it is true that other Muslims use different Quran which means the Quran is not the same all over the world. And what is the bisiness of Muslims claiming that the Quran is the same all over the world? It is all a lie to delude non Muslims I assume......

eastrun · Post time 24-3-2007 06:53 PM

1)
Psychopathic Vandalism?
GERD-R. Puin speaks with disdain about the traditional willingness, on thepart of Muslim and Western scholars, to accept the conventional understandingof the Koran. "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,'or'clear,'" he says. "But if you look at it, you will notice that everyfifthsentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims -- andOrientalists -- will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact isthat a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible.This is what has caused the traditionalanxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible -- ifit can't even be understood in Arabic -- then it's not translatable.People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear butobviously is not -- as even speakers of Arabic will tell you -- thereis a contradiction. Something else must be going on."

My answer:

This is the word of an orientalist.Who tried to find false in Quran and etc. You see...he said after he read the Quran for five verses, it doesn't make any senses. Of course la..Because in order to understand the Quran, of course you need to read the whole Surah or the Whole Quran. For example, like you read a novel, at first you read the front page, then move to the last page, then move to the middle page, how can you know what the book tries to tell you?.About the contradiction of translation, I propose you to buy a translated Holy Quran, and then compare with the translated Quran which translated by different persons.

The choice of words are different, but the meanings are the same. Go and make comparison. That doesn't make Quran got many versions because it tells one meaning, but different usage of words.

"We have sent down to thee Manifest Signs (ayat); and none reject them but those who are perverse."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:99)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
So, the Quran contradicts itself when in the OT it is said man was made in GOD's image. If HE is everywhere than we are HIM. But Muslims of 7th century had no brain to understand this verse but simply made their own conclusion that they were right in their interpretation. And so the trend continued to this very day among Muslims who think translaters of the 7th century were right. Pathetic!

My answer:

Nowhere in the Bible said that we are God. But those who does good deeds and peacemakers will be called son of God:

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God. "(Matthew 5:9)

Ask the Christians.Does that meant you are on the same level of Jesus which they claimed Son of God?.

They will say no and they will say that it is only a parable for the peacemakers and those do good deeds.

You see...

So, when the Bible say that we are the Image of God, then we are just the image not God Himself.

For example:
You stand in front of a mirror and you will see the image of you in the mirror.Will you say the image is you? or the image is yours?.Of course the image is yours, but NOT you.

He is everywhere, He is near us..and to be everywhere, He doesn't need to be us.He is everywhere by His will and that shows how powerful He is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
OM Bhur-Bhuvah-Svah Tat savitur varenyam Bhargo devasva dhimahi Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat.

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;
      Who has created the Universe;
      Who is worthy of Worship;
      Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;
      Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;
      May He enlighten our Intellect.

Does that verse above makes equal with GOD. Heh! Learn to read our scriptures nsraed of making assumption of your own. As I have said before and I'll say it now, we have it all and there is no need for another book to teach us. That is the point I wis to drive to Muslims. You religion was created to siut the enviorment and cultural aspects of the Arabs and not any other society outside the desert. Get that inot your think head

My answer:
I don't mind when your scriptures have the verses because like I said before that ALLAH sent same messages to the previous prophets too.And I have no problem with the verses but unfortunately the way you praised your God doesn't seem to show that you praise Him as an Almighty God.You say He is the one who created the Universe, worthy to worship and etc, but unfortunately, you also claimed that you created Him!. Doesn't that already put your God on the same level of you?.

The Quran answered (by Allah permission:

"Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal(with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But those ofFaith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteouscould see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongsall power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:165)

If you created Him, then will you say that you yourself

created the Universe, worthy to worship?.Please la..dont' put your God on that level.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alhamdulillah, day by day your questions become lesser it shows that my scripture is flawless and got everything and proved as the latest scripture.

"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;Most Gracious, Most Merciful;Master of the Day of Judgment.Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.Show us the straight way,The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."(Surah Al-Fatihah 1:1~7). AMIN!!!

[ Last edited by eastrun at 24-3-2007 06:57 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 24-3-2007 07:19 PM

1)
The above verse is not direct but told by someone call Al'Imran. Any verse told by so and so is only heresay and not something from the divine. I'm not a fool like to to accept such.

My answer:

The 'Al-Imran is the name of a family that has been blessed by Allah because the family members were Jesus, Mary, Al'Imran (the father of Mary) and etc. The surah dedicated to the family. Because Allah said, they are the chosen ones:

"Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-"(Surah Al-Imran 3:33).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
The problem is loks like Allah too parcticed the cast system. To the higher cast he spoke direct and to the lower cast he send his messange Gabrial. And to my undertanding from the above verse Mohammed was a low cast. Hehhehehe......

My answer:
Looks like only...but He didn't. Same like the poors and the riches. Why they are riches and there are poors?.Allah said:

"Allah has bestowed His gifts of sustenance more freely on some of you than on others: those more favoured are not going to throw back their gifts to those whom their right hands possess, so as to be equal in that respect. Will they then deny the favours of Allah."(Surah An-Nahl 16:71)

So, it is up to Allah la. But, the prophets all the same:

"Their salutation on the Day they meet Him will be "Peace!"; and He has prepared for them a generous Reward."(Surah al-Ahzab 33:44)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
Bukhari, volume 9, #57
No matter what you say it is there in bold and you cannot go on bluffing non Muslims it does not exist. Why do you Musims love to lie? Is it because Mohammed sanctioned lies? Aren't you afraid that lying is a sin and GOD would punish those who deceive?
Muslims are cunning when question by non muslims you say the Quran does not say so but when it happens you show the syariah and call for death penalty. Cunning are the Musims their prophet was cunning and the Quran too teaches how to attack infidels by hinding in the bush and ambush. Read it as it is in your scripture. HYPOCRATE!

My answer:

Don't dolak dalih,show me a verse from the Holy Quran....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
The idols do not move but the power or energy of GOD is tapped onto the Idol. Devotees facing the idol would get the grace of GOD and not the idol. I've been to a Mosque and felt nothing but when I steped into a temple I feel the spiritual grace and presence of GOD. The feel of comfort, peace and grace of GOD is felt. That is the difference between the Mosque and temple.

My answer:

What for you stepped into the mosque,  your intention to go there is NOT to worship Him?.Of course you won't feel anything.Allah said:

"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)

For the idols. I repeat:

"Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal(with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:165)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
I quoted the verse and volumes still you deny. May be there is a different Quran from yours. So, it is true that other Muslims use different Quran which means the Quran is not the same all over the world. And what is the bisiness of Muslims claiming that the Quran is the same all over the world? It is all a lie to delude non Muslims I assume......

My answer:

You quoted LEASE SEE THE UNDERLINED WORDS.

(Quran-7:54): Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens          and earth in Six Days (Quran-10:3): Verily your Lord is Allah, who          created the heavens and earth in Six Days (Quran- 11:7): He it is Who          created the heavens and earth in Six Days Quran-25:59: He Who created          the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

(Quran-41:9): Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two          Days ?
      (Quran- 41:10): He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high          above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all          things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS匸/b]
      (Quran-41:12): So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments          in Two days and

lemon8 · Post time 25-3-2007 10:44 AM

wah i tot CI is worst bod, here oledi can declare a crusade lol

barney50 · Post time 25-3-2007 10:46 AM

Reply #129 eastrun's post

by eastrun::
This is the word of an orientalist.Who tried to find false in Quran
and etc. You see...he said after he read the Quran for five verses, it
doesn't make any senses. Of course la..Because in order to understand
the Quran, of course you need to read the whole Surah or the Whole
Quran. For example, like you read a novel, at first you read the front
page, then move to the last page, then move to the middle page, how can
you know what the book tries to tell you?.About the contradiction of
translation, I propose you to buy a translated Holy Quran, and then
compare with the translated Quran which translated by different persons.
The choice of words are different, but the meanings are the same. Go
and make comparison. That doesn't make Quran got many versions because
it tells one meaning, but different usage of words.

Copy the Code

It is not only Orientalist who says so but even Arab Muslim scholars. read the whole commentary lah. Yo blame opterhs opf reading only partialy but here you too act the same way. To many version with different interpretation lah. I have read and I know what I'm talking about.

Such work has not come without cost, however: Taha Hussein, like Nasr Abu Zaid,was declared an apostate in Egypt; Ali Dashti died mysteriously just after the1979 Iranian revolution; and Fazlur Rahman was forced to leave Pakistan in the1960s. Muslims interested in challenging orthodox doctrine must treadcarefully. "I would like to get the Koran out of this prison," Abu Zaid hassaid of the prevailing Islamic hostility to reinterpreting the Koran for themodern age, "so that once more it becomes productive for the essence of ourculture and the arts, which are being strangled in our society." Despite hismany enemies in Egypt, Abu Zaid may well be making progress toward this goal:there are indications that his work is being widely, if quietly, read withinterest in the Arab world. Abu Zaid says, for example, that his The Conceptof the Text (1990) -- the book largely responsible for his exile fromEgypt -- has gone through at least eight underground printings in Cairo andBeirut.

http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran3.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Nowhere in the Bible said that we are God. But those who does good deeds and peacemakers will be called son of God:
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God. "(Matthew 5:9)
Ask the Christians.Does that meant you are on the same level of Jesus which they claimed Son of God?.
They will say no and they will say that it is only a parable for the peacemakers and those do good deeds.
You see...
So, when the Bible say that we are the Image of God, then we are just the image not God Himself.
For example:
You stand in front of a mirror and you will see the image of you in
the mirror.Will you say the image is you? or the image is yours?.Of
course the image is yours, but NOT you.
He is everywhere, He is near us..and to be everywhere, He doesn't
need to be us.He is everywhere by His will and that shows how powerful
He is.

Copy the Code

You talk about Christians who had been brainwashed like Muslims to believe what they waht to believe. Otherwise why did the crusaders killed the pagans and Jews during their truimp to establish a Christian kingdom like what Muslims are dreaming of? You can either take it literally or metaphor. It is up to you and no one is forcing you to accept ny way of thinking. If GOD is in my than I'm GOD and that is my philosophy. You can live by yours.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
I don't mind when your scriptures have the verses because like I
said before that ALLAH sent same messages to the previous prophets
too.And I have no problem with the verses but unfortunately the way you
praised your God doesn't seem to show that you praise Him as an
Almighty God.You say He is the one who created the Universe, worthy to
worship and etc, but unfortunately, you also claimed that you created
Him!. Doesn't that already put your God on the same level of you?.
The Quran answered (by Allah permission:
"Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal(with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But
those ofFaith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the
unrighteouscould see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah
belongsall power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:165)
If you created Him, then will you say that you yourself created the Universe, worthy to worship?.Please la..dont' put your God on that level.

Copy the Code

The proplem with you is you lack the knowledge in perceiving religion and idiology. I said GOD exist because of man and if there is no man who is to mentioned GOD. So, literally its man who created GOD and not the otherway around. Don't worry about GOD creating the world and so forth. The most immediate and clear fact is that it''s man who created GOD why and how is another matter. I still maintain that without man who is to call GOD amd who would praise GOD. Let me show a simple example without your parents you'd not be here becuase they created you. You being their son did not fall form the sky but was created by both your mother and father and so they call you son. But if your parents did not what to have you then you'd not be here. It's the same with GOD. It's man who created GOD and it's man who praises GOD. In the present world MAN is greater then GOD. Greater in the sense MAN can do what he wishes to do while GOD who he created is just an observer. GOD does not dictate what man has to do but it's will of man and he does what he wants. Like the PM when he thinks he wants to raise the price of oil he does even though the peole do not like it. Does GOD who, you say is All Mighty would come down to intervene and say you cannot do that as it will burden the people more? No, hE would not because itis not HIS duty. Many a thing you would not understand because yo do not think broad but only confined to your relgioun and its myth. But as I said you can live in your dreams and no one would distract you from your dream.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alhamdulillah, day by day your questions become lesser it shows that my
scripture is flawless and got everything and proved as the latest
scripture.
"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Praise
be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;Most Gracious,
Most Merciful;Master of the Day of Judgment.Thee do we worship, and
Thine aid we seek.Show us the straight way,The way of those on whom
Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and
who go not astray."(Surah Al-Fatihah 1:1~7). AMIN!!!

Copy the Code

No day by day I'm proofing to you that there are flaws and you are blind to it because of your faith. It's more to faith than what is written in the Quran. You have been told to accept what ahs beed told without doubt otherwise your'll be thrown into hellfire. The Quran is a lead and hadith is a warning. Poisen in one hand and sword in the other. Drink it or you'll be slaughtered. That is what Islam is all about. There is no room for rational debate but threat of hellfire. Well, I'll leave you to your dreams as that is what you wish to dwell on.

barney50 · Post time 25-3-2007 11:13 AM

Reply #130 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
The 'Al-Imran is the name of a family that has been blessed by Allah
because the family members were Jesus, Mary, Al'Imran (the father of
Mary) and etc. The surah dedicated to the family. Because Allah said,
they are the chosen ones:
"Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-"(Surah Al-Imran 3:33).

Copy the Code

Whatever that verse is not directf rom GOD. You can say what you want but the verses of Quran are from the mouth of person or persons who say I heard Mohammed say this. It is how the verses in the Quran was recorded. No one an vouch if it was from GOD. You just accept becuase it says so and you as a Musims have to believe that verse as from GOD. Simple as that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Looks like only...but He didn't. Same like the poors and the riches. Why they are riches and there are poors?.Allah said:
"Allah has bestowed His gifts of sustenance more freely on some of
you than on others: those more favoured are not going to throw back
their gifts to those whom their right hands possess, so as to be equal
in that respect. Will they then deny the favours of Allah."(Surah
An-Nahl 16:71)
So, it is up to Allah la. But, the prophets all the same:
"Their salutation on the Day they meet Him will be "Peace!"; and He has prepared for them a generous Reward."(Surah al-Ahzab 33:44)

Copy the Code

That is the question here. Why more on others none on some? Does you Quran have an answer for that? No, no, no, your Quran is running away from the reality of life. There is no excuse such as that to just say they would be rewared more in the hereafter. An excuse form Muslims clergy becuase they do not have the answer. Simple as that my dear fellow.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
Don't dolak dalih,show me a verse from the Holy Quran....

Copy the Code

What dolak dalih? What is the syariag cour dealing with now? The Quran or the hadith. You Muslims claim someof the punishment are not mentioned in the Quran and so have to refer to the hadith and what does the hadith say the punishment for apostates, its death. You peole are the most cunning of the lot here. When question about the Quran you point to the hadith but when question about the hadith you point to the Quran. Head you win tail I lose. Cunning Arabs made it so that Muslims have no way of escaping but doomed to be ignorant.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
What for you stepped into the mosque, your intention to go there is
NOT to worship Him?.Of course you won't feel anything.Allah said:
"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed
on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily
Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)

Copy the Code

Again a verse told by someone and not direct from GOD. No value to me lah. I said what I felt and that is the truth. Does that change the situation? No, and you cannot make be beleive so with such verses.

For the idols. I repeat:
"Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah,
as equal(with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But
those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the
unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to
Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:165)

Copy the Code

Others means what? Can you define? All I can see is others mean the devil. But we do not say we worship devil like the black church in Europe where there are people who still worship the devil. But here we say we love GOD and pray to GOD and the idols we have in our temples represents GOD. So, what others beside GOD are you talking about?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[code]by eastrun:

You quoted LEASE SEE THE UNDERLINED WORDS.

(Quran-7:54): Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens          and earth in Six Days (Quran-10:3): Verily your Lord is Allah, who          created the heavens and earth in Six Days (Quran- 11:7): He it is Who          created the heavens and earth in Six Days Quran-25:59: He Who created          the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

(Quran-41:9): Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two          Days ?

      (Quran- 41:10): He set on the (earth) Mountains standing
firm high          above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and
measured therein all          things to give them nourishment in due
proportion, in FOUR DAYS

lemon8 · Post time 25-3-2007 11:30 AM

i didnt know god need a rest lol

barney50 · Post time 25-3-2007 12:02 PM

lemon8,

Yes he did according to the OT. Why, didn't you know about it? Then why did Mohammed claim Quran is the continuation of the OT? May be you too are another ignorant Muslim here. Better memorize your Quran before you come here otherwise you are shaming Islam.

WLIO · Post time 25-3-2007 12:07 PM

Originally posted by lemon8 at 25-3-2007 11:30 AM
i didnt know god need a rest lol

their god lazy kot

kharrrrr kharrrr kharrrrr

lemon8 · Post time 25-3-2007 12:12 PM

thx barney, i think i need to start reading dead mans logs again lol

imo every religion has flaws because its written/translated by humans who tend to add their side of the story to make ppl believe, no believers no supporters no nation no cause, except for china

as time goes by, those soo called scriptures will be obsolete, just like pagans were forgotten (not completely), so tell me in your opinion which is the one true version of god...

i know theres god and theres satan, but how many? a god with two faces? lol

lemon8 · Post time 25-3-2007 12:19 PM

and no one really could prove god exist, just prophets who are humans like us, telling so-so and humans tend to lie for self motives, dont u agree? u should if ur a true human

im not surprise if god is an alien lol

barney50 · Post time 25-3-2007 04:50 PM

Reply to lemon8's post

Reply #135 barney50's post
thx barney, i think i need to start reading dead mans logs again lol
imo every religion has flaws because its written/translated by humans who tend to add their side of the story to make ppl believe, no believers no supporters no nation no cause, except for china
as time goes by, those soo called scriptures will be obsolete, just like pagans were forgotten (not completely), so tell me in your opinion which is the one true version of god...

Copy the Code

Weather GOD exist or not is the question here. The question is weather one follows the right path. As I have said in all my post all paths leads to one GOD we call by many names.

i know theres god and theres satan, but how many? a god with two faces? lol
and no one really could prove god exist, just prophets who are humans like us, telling so-so and humans tend to lie for self motives, dont u agree? u should if ur a true human
im not surprise if god is an alien lol

Copy the Code

Yes, I agree with you but at the same time I did say GOD exist because of man. So its man who created GOD and not the other way round. Religions were created to bring an order into society so that people would live a civilize life. Barbarians had no religion and so would do anything for survival but when religion was establish the same barbarians learn to live a orderly life. Respect and love was the main theme of religions and breaking that would earn the warth of GOD the creator. So man began to fear the unkown. Learn to respect and love and so religion developed. It is just like telling your baby boy that if he does not go to sleeep boogy man would eat him up. Fear of the unknow made man into what he is today.

eastrun · Post time 25-3-2007 05:30 PM

1)
It is not only Orientalist who says so but even Arab Muslim scholars. read the whole commentary lah. Yo blame opterhs opf reading only partialy but here you too act the same way. To many version with different interpretation lah. I have read and I know what I'm talking about.

My answer:

It just an article.Which a human like us also can create AND say Quran like this and that, If I want, I also can say your scriptures like this, your rishis like this, your faith like this...and etc.I also can manipulate the facts to make it suit with my own desire. But I won't because my scripture never asked me to do such thing and for sure, yours also never told you to do like that.You never read my scripture, but you quote small part of the scripture, then you claimed you have read the whole scripture. Took one verse, and then twist it. That's normal for an old man called Barney. Which like to follow other sources rather that following the Holy Quran 1st..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
You talk about Christians who had been brainwashed like Muslims to believe what they waht to believe. Otherwise why did the crusaders killed the pagans and Jews during their truimp to establish a Christian kingdom like what Muslims are dreaming of? You can either take it literally or metaphor. It is up to you and no one is forcing you to accept ny way of thinking. If GOD is in my than I'm GOD and that is my philosophy. You can live by yours.

My answer:

Yes I am talking about them, but I am NOT insulting them.I quoted the verse and I explained with the explanation from my Christian friends.Logically, if God is in you, and you are God, for sure you can do many supernatural miracles, you don't have to eat, don't have to pee, and don't have to sleep. But the reality is, you need all that.My friend, how can God act like that?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
The proplem with you is you lack the knowledge in perceiving religion and idiology. I said GOD exist because of man and if there is no man who is to mentioned GOD. So, literally its man who created GOD and not the otherway around. Don't worry about GOD creating the world and so forth. The most immediate and clear fact is that it''s man who created GOD why and how is another matter. I still maintain that without man who is to call GOD amd who would praise GOD. Let me show a simple example without your parents you'd not be here becuase they created you. You being their son did not fall form the sky but was created by both your mother and father and so they call you son. But if your parents did not what to have you then you'd not be here. It's the same with GOD. It's man who created GOD and it's man who praises GOD. In the present world MAN is greater then GOD. Greater in the sense MAN can do what he wishes to do while GOD who he created is just an observer. GOD does not dictate what man has to do but it's will of man and he does what he wants. Like the PM when he thinks he wants to raise the price of oil he does even though the peole do not like it. Does GOD who, you say is All Mighty would come down to intervene and say you cannot do that as it will burden the people more? No, hE would not because itis not HIS duty. Many a thing you would not understand because yo do not think broad but only confined to your relgioun and its myth. But as I said you can live in your dreams and no one would distract you from your dream.

My answer:
Just now, you said, God is in you, you are God and now you say that you created God. A confusion fiction.Your example about my parents is not acceptable. Because, my parents didn't created me.But Allah created me in my mother's womb by His will by combined my father's sperm and my mother's ovum:

"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)."(Surah Al-Hajj 22:5)

and

"He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise."(Surah Al-Imran 3:6)

God created you and He made you to praise Him because He is worthy to be praised:

"Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise."(Surah Al-Ju'muah 62:1)

Explained!.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
No day by day I'm proofing to you that there are flaws and you are blind to it because of your faith. It's more to faith than what is written in the Quran. You have been told to accept what ahs beed told without doubt otherwise your'll be thrown into hellfire. The Quran is a lead and hadith is a warning. Poisen in one hand and sword in the other. Drink it or you'll be slaughtered. That is what Islam is all about. There is no room for rational debate but threat of hellfire. Well, I'll leave you to your dreams as that is what you wish to dwell on

My answer:

That shows whatever you have claimed about Islam...all are wrong and weighless and the Quran got the answer. The Quran is the leader, and the Hadith is the PHYSICAL explanation of the Quran. For those who followed the Hadith first, before the Quran for sure will not understand. The Islam is simple. And Alhamdulillah you are speechless with so many stupid things you have raised before.Proving that Islam has no problem, but the people that hates the religion got the problem.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
Whatever that verse is not directf rom GOD. You can say what you want but the verses of Quran are from the mouth of person or persons who say I heard Mohammed say this. It is how the verses in the Quran was recorded. No one an vouch if it was from GOD. You just accept becuase it says so and you as a Musims have to believe that verse as from GOD. Simple as that.

My answer:
I am sorry...because in the Holy Quran, no verse start with I heard Muhammad said this...and that...Hahahaha. The verses in the Holy Quran start with word SAY!!!.Meaning that, Allah instructed Muhammad to utter His words. For example:

"Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,"(Surah An-Naas 114:1)

"Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn"(Surah Al-Falaq 113:1)

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;"(Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1)

It is from Allah

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6)
That is the question here. Why more on others none on some? Does you Quran have an answer for that? No, no, no, your Quran is running away from the reality of life. There is no excuse such as that to just say they would be rewared more in the hereafter. An excuse form Muslims clergy becuase they do not have the answer. Simple as that my dear fellow.

My answer:

The verses I have quoted before explained why Allah did that. That's the reality of life. Yes, the one who suffers in the world will be rewarded in the Hereafter. To show how justful Allah.But those who lives in prosper, and then does good deed, of course la, they will be rewarded too. Is it a problem?.Simple...it is better from mixed up heavens and hells in ONE which no LONG LASTING prosperity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------