Taurat and Injil during Muhammad's time

sam1528

albatross posted on 23-11-2014 02:16 PM
Strawman. I did not deny that Jesus gave out revelations or prophecies. I deny that Jesus received a "kitab" called "the Injil" that he was supposed to give to his Aramaic speaking people, which is stupid since "Injil" is a loan word from Greek, which means that an Aramaic prophet gave out a kitab in greek to his Aramaic speaking people.

Aiyoo , this is atrocious understanding. The Quran stated of Injeel not Kitab Injeel. Injeel is a revelation. If I know better , this is just damage control by you. You have been caught square now you are giving excuses. I quote (bit part) your post#42

The answer to your question is answered by Truth.8 in post #37: there is no "Injeel" that is brought down to "3eesa" through the angel Gabriel. heck, "3eesa" never even existed. The word Injil is not even an Arabic word, nor is it Hebrew, nor is it Aramaic. The word "injil" is a loan word that Muhammad took from hearing that the Christians talk about having, but he had no clue what it was.

When did I ever mentioned that the Injeel was Kitab Injeel? This is what we call strawman

Do Muslim gave it the name "Injil", or was it Allah? Don't you Muslims believe in this? That Allah gave the name "Injil" to the kitab? So why would Allah give a Greek name to a kitab that was supposedly given to an Aramaic speaking prophet?

The word Injeel comes from the Quran , hence to us muslims it is from Allah. It is the revelation to Prophet Eesa(as). Your bible in Rev1:1 confirm that Jesus received revelation from God. Nobody stated about any kitab. It is you making up issues as you go along because you have been caught square that the NT written in Koine Greek (not Jesus's native language) is a sure sign of a corrupted book.

Why are you making things up as you go along?

So Answer this now, did this "3eesa" receive his revelation from Jibreel? Yes or No?

Prophet Eesa(as) receive his revelation from Allah not from Archangel Jibreel. If you ask whether it was Archangel Jibreel who delivered the revelation , the Quran does not mention it. However Prophet Eesa(as) was strengthen with the Holy Spirit (Quran5:110) which we identify with Arch Angel Jibreel.

Why do you keep repeating this? I did not deny Jesus gave revelations. I denied that he received this "kitab" named "Injil".

Refer to your post#42. In the later part , this is what you wrote (bit part) :

So then he made up this story about "3eesa" having received a book called "Injil". The word "Injil" stems from the greek word "euangel". The Christians held on to books called "euangelion", and this was later made into a loan word into semitic languages, an turned into "Injil" into Arabic. So unless you believed that God revealed a Greek book to "3eesa", then yes, the Muslim version of the "Injil" never existed.

The first part you talked about Injeel and in the second part you talked about a book called Injeel. Nowhere did I ever talk about a BOOK called Injeel. I only reference Injeel being revelation.

Can you get your facts straight?

Friend, did you even read the picture that you posted? Or are you just parroting words from answeringchristianity.com? IT SAYS THERE. THE FIRST DEFINITION. A CONTRACTED FORM OF יְהוֹשֻׁעַ. If you don't know how to read Hebrew, יְהוֹשֻׁעַ is YAHUSHUA. Which means: GOD IS SALVATION. But again, instead of actually reading things by yourself, you decided to follow answeringchristianity's answer. Instead of looking at the definition of the NOUN, you (following Osama Abdullah, writer of answering Christianity) decided to SKIP the definition of the noun and went to the definition that is applicable only when to word is used AS A VERBAL ADJECTIVE. it says there clearly, WHEN NOUN, IT REFERS TO NAME "GOD IS SALVATION".

The explanation is not taken from answering christinity but from a writer Shilbi Zaman but you are referring to answering Islam. Too bad for you , this is because portions of Daniel, Ezra, NehemYah, and YirmiYahu (Jeremiah) are written in Aramaic. I did quote :

This is transliterated to Jeshua by the bible writers - ezra2:2 , 1chro24:11 , 2chron31:15 , neh3:19. It doesn't mean 'God is Salvation'. It means 'he is saved'.

If you really know Hebrew , it is like arabic , the words are build from trilateral roots. Do you know what is the meaning of CONTRACTED FORM? I copy paste the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon  again :


Where does it say when its a noun like a name , it means saviour or 'God is Salvation'? All I see is that it means safe. Show me the evidence of your claim.

No the Quran is NOT RIGHT. THE CHARACTERS DID NOT REMAIN THE SAME. You gave all those alphabets, didn't you read it for yourself? The picture YOU POSTED spelled the name of Jesus as "YODH-SHIN-WAW-AYIN". If the Quran is right, then it would spell it with the Arabic cognates of those letters "YA-SIN-WAW-3AYN", which is the exact way Arab Christians pronounce the way of their Lord, "Yasu3". But Muhammad came up with an entirely different name: spelled "3AYN-YA-SIN-YA" which if applied as the name of Jesus, removed all meaning attached to the name "Yeshua".

The letter "YODH" is important, since it is from the name of God "YHWH". But Muhammad changed it utterly by turning the first letter as "yodh" into "Ayin". What does the "Ayin" stand for in "3eesa"'s name? The name of God? Which God revealed Himself with a name starting with "Ayin"?Then the letter "Shin-Waw-Ayin" is also important as means Salvation. But Muhammad changed it into "Ya-Sin-Ya" which is bereft of what meaning whatsoever, let alone the actual meaning of Salvation. What does "ya-sin-ya" even mean? It doesn't have a meaning.

So no, The Lord Jesus is not "3eesa". The name of Jesus means "God is Salvation", while the name "3eesa" has no meaning whatsoever, and is probably a name Muhammad made up.

LOL , what are you talking about apart from a direct copy from answering Islam? I have already provided you the Aramaic , Arabic and Hebrew characters for the name of Prophet Eesa(as).

Is Jesus mother tongue hebrew or aramaic? Why are you taking the hebrew form and arguing for it to so call 'God is Salvation'?

The question you should be asking why the Yodh or Yad instead of Ayin? The Aramaic is 'eesho' meaning the character should start with ayin or ayn regardless whether its hebrew or arabic as semitic language is a phonetic language. The answer is simple , christians like you are trying to force the hebrew name of Jesus to mean 'God is Salvation' by working backwards. This is disingenuous.

Ok then , arab christians pronounce it being 'yasu'. What makes you think 'yasu' = 'yeshua' per the christian arabs at that time? The arabic bible only appeared ~ CE800-900. How do you know that the arabs at the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) called Prophet Eesa(as) 'yasu' per the arabic bible.

I have already given you the Aramaic version of Jesus which is 'Eesho' and the Arabic of it which is 'Eesa'. The only difference is the last character which is pronounced being 'sin' in Hebrew against 'sheen' in Aramaic which is 'sin' in arabic. If you look carefully , the characters do not change.

You are going round and round arguing about the meaning of a name whereas I go to the basic , it being the characters making up the name. It is clear , the characters did not change but the pronounciation. This is expected of sister languages.

No such thing that Yeshua to mean God is Salvation ...

sam1528

albatross posted on 23-11-2014 02:43 PM
Ok. Simple question. Did Allah say those words to Moses. Yes, or no.

Gee Whizz , can you be that thick?

I repeat what I stated per my post#49 that you manipulated by truncating it and then argue on it :

Of course Allah muttered such to Prophet Moosa(as). However what Allah revealed to Prophet Moosa(as) is not the same as what was in the hands of the Israelites at the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw).

Which part of the said post that you have problems understanding that you need to ask teh above said question again and again.