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Originally posted by bob at 3-8-2006 09:38 PM
ini nak gelak ni..
fh3, interest and percentage are two very very different thing. even if there is a % sign at the back of a number it is meant as a mathematical calculation, not interest...
i forgive you..
thats very kind of you to forgive me..
but bobby those percentages like 7.6%pa IS THE RIBA they charge on your loan.
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err fh3 just don't get it.. the diff between interest n percentage.. heh heh let him be... |
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Originally posted by LostSoul at 4-8-2006 10:35 AM
err fh3 just don't get it.. the diff between interest n percentage.. heh heh let him be...
Come on lah don't act like a wise guy.. if it is not riba/ interest rate/profit rate, then tell me what is this 4.5%p.a for 1st year , 5.75%p.a for 2nd year and 7.6%p.a thereafter?.. given by RHB islamic banking.
Package 4 - with FMC (For Completed Property Only)*
1st Year 4.50% p.a.
2nd Year 5.75% p.a.
Thereafter 7.60% p.a.
Up to maximum of 30 years or 65 years old (whichever is earlier)
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 4-8-2006 08:36 PM
Come on lah don't act like a wise guy.. if it is not riba/ interest rate/profit rate, then tell me what is this 4.5%p.a for 1st year , 5.75%p.a for 2nd year and 7.6%p.a thereafter?.. given by ...
FH3...
What a pity and desperate person you are in order to discredit Islam but sorry to say, you are just showing your inability to do differentiation. It reminds me of your best alliances (Mr Bush and Blair) to go to war in IRAQ by providing false information/intelligence to suit their AGENDA.
Since you have difficulty to answer my 4 simple questions, from now on, I will put the following in each of future my post.
Originally posted by anta at 2-8-2006
Anta question Q1.
1. What is your religion?
FH3 answer:
what relevant does my religion have on the subject we are debating on?
Anta Question Q2:
2. Can you confirm the following statements that
a) You(FH3) are not a muslim and you require details explanations about USURY/RIBA/INTEREST?
b) You(FH3) are equating Islamic bankings with Conventional bankings? and all banks are similar!
c) You(FH3) really hate Islam and muslims?
FH3 answer:
2a) yeap. i want to know why riba is still used in islamic banking.
2b) my view is that islamic banking runs on interest but the banks are cheating the public with thier gimmick that their banking is interest-free.
2c) I hate any dogma that discriminate those who don't follow thier version of religion and I hate those who discriminate others based on religion.
...
It seems to me you do not know how businesses work! You can't even differentiate and you are confuse on the following terms:
What is riba/interest?
What is profit?
What is rate?
What is interest rate?
What is profit rate?
What is %? (as what Bob and LostSoul highlighted)
More info:
Over the last ten years, the subject of Islamic finance has attracted growing interest among academics, students and professionals around the globe. The Islamic Investment Study, conducted by Professor Frank E. Vogel at the Law School and Professor Samuel Hayes, III, at the Business School culminated in the 1998 publication of Vogel and Hayes' Islamic Law and Finance: Religion, Risk, and Return. This landmark study, which has been well received by scholars and students alike, underscores Harvard's leadership role in the field.
http://ifptest.law.harvard.edu/i ... fff23a9c41e0d2c7763
[ Last edited by anta at 4-8-2006 11:01 PM ] |
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Originally posted by anta at 4-8-2006 10:56 PM
FH3...
What a pity and desperate person you are in order to discredit Islam but sorry to say, you are just showing your inability to do differentiation. It reminds me of your best alliance ...
LOL
The one who is desperate to erect the fallen islamic banking is you.
You can't disprove my accusation that your islamic banking calculation involves interest.
You cannot run away from the basic. Fancy arabic words or different english words cannot hide the fact that interest imposed on the loan.
8. How to calculate the monthly instalment for AITAB Financing?
Total Amount Payable = Financing Amount + ( Financing Amount x Profit Rate x Period [in years] )
Note: "Financing Amount" is equivalent to amount borrowed
Monthly Instalment = Total Amount Payable / Period [in years] x 12
Illustration:
Total Amount Payable = (RM50,000) + (RM50,000 x 5.00% x 5 years) = RM 62,500
Monthly Instalment = RM 62,500 /( 5 x 12) = RM 1,041.67
Different usage of terms such as: Interest Rate = Profit Rate
More details in : http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=174&pg=469&ac=389
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 4-8-2006 11:41 PM
LOL
The one who is desperate to erect the fallen islamic banking is you.
You can't disprove my accusation that your islamic banking calculation involves interest.
You cannot run away ...
FH3..
Why I have to run away.
By the way, you do not have to be scared and afraid with the advancement of Islamic finance.
An estimate of Islamic Finance industry is in excess of USD1.2 trillion with a growth rate of 15% pa ( http://www.euromoneyconferences.com/downloads/APBCWorkshopB.pdf).
See the word 'growth rate', % and pa (per annum).
Once again, it seems to me you do not know how businesses work! You can't even differentiate and you are very confuse on the following terms:
What is riba/interest?
What is profit?
What is rate?
What is interest rate?
What is profit rate?
What is %? (as what Bob and LostSoul highlighted)
Read the words carefully and know the meaning of 'Different usage of terms'. As I wrote in the earlier post, in order to explain to the 慶onventional banking familiar person |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 4-8-2006 11:41 PM
LOL
The one who is desperate to erect the fallen islamic banking is you.
You can't disprove my accusation that your islamic banking calculation involves interest.
You cannot run away ...
FH3, profit sharing ngan interest tuh tak sama lah. Baca nih.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking |
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but to me as a public consumer-- there is no difference.
if the economy comes crashing down - and islamic banking says "dude, you don't have to pay `profit-share` for this year..until conditions get better -- then i think Islamic Banking is really for the people. |
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profit sharing tu hanya gimmick digunakan oleh org2 yg reka islamic banking system. Tapi hakikatnya profit sharing tu tergantung kepada interest tetap yg bank kenakan atas principal loan.
islamic banking dlm wikipedia dah lama dah baca.
and from the looks of it this(Qardul Hassan is the only islamic banking..
Qardul Hassan (Benevolent Loan)
This is a loan extended on a goodwill basis, and the debtor is only required to repay the amount borrowed. However, the debtor may, at his or her discretion, pay an extra amount beyond the principal amount of the loan (without promising it) as a token of appreciation to the creditor. In the case that the debtor does not pay an extra amount to the creditor, this transaction is a true interest-free loan. Some Muslims consider this to be the only type of loan that does not violate the prohibition on riba, since it is the one type of loan that truly does not compensate the creditor for the time value of money [/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isl ... 8Benevolent_Loan.29
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Originally posted by anta at 5-8-2006 12:04 AM
By the way, you do not have to be scared and afraid with the advancement of Islamic finance.
If the deal is good, say islamic banking only takes riba much less that conventional banking then i will go for islamic banking. but reality is islamic banking is not much different from conventional fixed interest rate.. or even the variable interest rate. you stii pay high riba.
fuuyooo so terror lah you.
don't behave as if you don't know what percentage i was refering to okay.
I have clearly stated that i was refering to profit rate %pa is same as the interest rate %pa.. as shown by RHB islamic banking.
[quote]Originally posted by anta at 5-8-2006 12:04 AM
Read the words carefully and know the meaning of 'Different usage of terms'. As I wrote in the earlier post, in order to explain to the 慶onventional banking familiar person |
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bob This user has been deleted
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aaikk.. tak habis lagi. why not for those who wants islamic banking use islamic banking and the same otherwise. to each his own choice. sambil kita bertekak, bank dok buat duit jugak. |
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FH3...
FH3...
Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 7-8-2006 07:02 PM
Not scared at all but really wonder how did the few muslims manage to fool other muslims that there is no interest in islamic banking when its clearly based on interest.
If the deal is good, say ...
Very pity of you FaithHealer3. You are making accusation after accusation.
You tak payah la susah-susah fikir, what I can say at this point of time, don抰 be like 慿atak dalam tempurung |
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Originally posted by anta at 7-8-2006 11:42 PM
Very pity of you FaithHealer3. You are making accusation after accusation.
You tak payah la susah-susah fikir, what I can say at this point of time, don抰 be like 慿atak dalam ...
anta,
so far you have fail to show that islamic banking does not impose interest. What you have done is that
a) you have show me non-muslims are using islamic banking.
b) you have shown non-muslim are interested to use islamic banking
c) you given fancy arabic terms for banking.
d) you have denied that islamic banking uses interest.. but
e) you have shown me that islamic banking is using interest. by your only example in post#28
The only islamic banking calculation that YOU GAVE shows intererst is imposed on the principal to gain easy profit.. thats riba. and you have avoided this issue like a plague and keep on bragging that non-muslim are interested in islamic banking. The issue is not who likes it or uses it but the issue is whethere isterest is used or not? ..and according to your own information YES THERE IS INTEREST INVOLVE IN ISLAMIC BANKING.
8. How to calculate the monthly instalment for AITAB Financing?
Total Amount Payable = Financing Amount + ( Financing Amount x Profit Rate x Period [in years] )
Note: "Financing Amount" is equivalent to amount borrowed
Monthly Instalment = Total Amount Payable / Period [in years] x 12
Illustration:
Total Amount Payable = (RM50,000) + (RM50,000 x 5.00% x 5 years) = RM 62,500
Monthly Instalment = RM 62,500 /( 5 x 12) = RM 1,041.67
5. What are the differences between AITAB Car Financing and Conventional Hire Purchase Loan?
*Different usage of terms such as:
Conventional :Islamic
Loan : Financing
Interest Rate : Profit Rate
Hiring Charges : Mark-up
Late Payment Interest :Late Payment Charges
More details in : http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=174&pg=469&ac=389
Clearly in the example gave by YOU, the Riba/Interest = Amount payable - Financing Amount
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Originally posted by RedChaSiew at 6-8-2006 09:54 AM
but to me as a public consumer-- there is no difference.
if the economy comes crashing down - and islamic banking says "dude, you don't have to pay `profit-share` for this year..until condi ...
hahaha in your dreams redchasiew... all in all, banks are still banks. the must make profit regardless of the current economic weather...
and it's for ppl who wanna choose islamic banking. for those who do not want, there are thousands of conventional banking products, go and get some. nobody force anybody to get islamic banking products... and you know why islamic banking survived and grows, because lotsa ppl know its benefits and became its customers. otherwise, suerly islamic banking has "bungkus" long time ago... |
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my moslem friend told me that Riba is Haram in Islam... can anyone tell me if it's true? if true, then why is it haram..? she also doesn't know why is it haram when I asked her...:stp: |
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Originally posted by sherlyn at 8-8-2006 10:53 AM
my moslem friend told me that Riba is Haram in Islam... can anyone tell me if it's true? if true, then why is it haram..? she also doesn't know why is it haram when I asked her...:stp:
Yeap its true. Riba is haram to muslim to take or give.. but muslims stil practice giving and taking Riba. They just "close one eye".
Riba is an arabic word for Usury or Interest. Riba is any additional amount imposed on the principal given to someone.
Say, i will borrow to you RM100 but on condition that you must return back RM110. the extra RM10 is riba. Its riba even if agree to the condition.
JAWABAN
Sesungguhnya bunga yang diambil oleh penabung di bank adalah
riba yang diharamkan, karena riba adalah semua tambahan yang
disyaratkan atas pokok harta. Artinya, apa yang diambil
seseorang tanpa melalui usaha perdagangan dan tanpa
berpayah-payah sebagai tambahan atas pokok hartanya, maka
yang demikian itu termasuk riba. Dalam hal ini Allah
berfirman:
"Hai orang-orang yang beriman, bertakwalah kepada
Allah dan tinggalkan sisa riba (yang belum dipungut)
jika kamu orang-orang yang beriman. Maka jika kamu
tidak mengerjakan (meninggalkan sisa riba) maka
ketahuilah, bahwa Allah dan Rasul-Nya akan
memerangimu. Dan jika kamu bertobat (dari pengambilan
riba), maka bagimu pokok hartamu; kamu tidak
menganiaya dan tidak (pula) dianiaya."
(Antara lain Baqarah: 278-279)
http://media.isnet.org/islam/Qardhawi/Kontemporer/BungaBank.html
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it is riba packaged as 'profit share'.... if it is haram - just call it another name and it becomes un-haram. simple.
does Tabung Haji own shares in Genting Highlands or Resort World? yes? |
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Sherlyn...
Originally posted by sherlyn at 8-8-2006 10:53 AM
my moslem friend told me that Riba is Haram in Islam... can anyone tell me if it's true? if true, then why is it haram..? she also doesn't know why is it haram when I asked her...:stp:
Yes, it is true. Riba is Haram (prohibited) in Islam.
Why is it haram?
The question on why riba is prohibited/haram is often raised by some who wonder how something that is now so prevalent in the world's economy can be prohibited.
For some, the answer to your question can be as simple as "because God said so in the Quran", but for others, an analysis of why it is prohibited needs to be done.
What is riba anyway?
First, we have to define what riba is. Prohibited riba in Islam falls in two categories (both termed Riba, the Arabic term for Usury).
- Riba Al Nasee' (Usury of Deferrance)
Extending the period for a loan by charging more than the principal value.
- Riba Al Fadhl (Usury of Increase)
Lending money for it to be returned with an added portion.
Interest today falls under both definitions.
Why is riba prohibited?
Apart from the clear Quranic injunction on the prohibition of riba, there are other issues with riba which cause it to be prohibited.
It is considered a form of injustice, and exploitation. Moreover, conventional economy today is debt-based, and only does risk transfer. Islamic economy in contrast is asset-based, and does risk sharing. It is all about fairness to all parties.
Dr. Mahmoud Amin El-Gamal of Rice University has wrote several papers that explain this issue in detail.
- An Economic Explication of the Prohibition of Riba in Classical Islamic Jurisprudence (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~elgamal/files/riba.pdf)
- "Interest" and the Paradox of Contemporary Islamic Law and Finance (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~elgamal/files/interest.pdf)
For a list of verses in the Quran concerning the prohibition of usury, you can find the English translation here (http://quran.al-islam.com/Search ... g=eng&Option=1)
You can also read an article on Islamic Halal Finance site on Interest.
http://www.islamic-banks-mortgag ... erest-in-Islam.html
Source: http://muslim-investor.com/princ ... bited-in-islam.html
[ Last edited by anta at 8-8-2006 09:31 PM ] |
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Sherlyn...
Originally posted by sherlyn at 8-8-2006 10:53 AM
my moslem friend told me that Riba is Haram in Islam... can anyone tell me if it's true? if true, then why is it haram..? she also doesn't know why is it haram when I asked her...:stp:
Contd... Why Riba is Haram in Islam
Prohibition of Interest
Payment of predetermined interest is clearly forbidden in Islam and Muslim scholars have provided various reasons for this. On a theoretical basis, most major contemporary western theories attempting to explain this phenomenon have been examined and refuted, including Bohem-bowarks' Time-Preference and Abstinence theories, Samuelson's treatment of interest as "rent for the use of money," Patinkins's handling of interest as "a form of income from property," Bain's views of interest as "payment for services of invested money," and Keynes' Liquidity Preference Theory.
Philosophically, interest is prohibited due to the perceived exploitation of one class of people by another.
In the case of consumption loans which are generally made to people who neither have the luxury of savings to meet urgent personal needs nor have access to any other means of acquiring financing, the prohibition of interest is mainly for humane purposes. In the case of loans for productive purposes, it is not deemed fitting for lenders of capital funds to be assured of receiving a rate of return while users of such funds--the entrepreneurs--have no assurance of direction and magnitude of returns. It is socially unjust to guarantee a predetermined return for any one party when the existence of entrepreneurial profit is uncertain.
Interest is also viewed as a transfer wealth from the poor to the rich, thus increasing the inequality in distribution of wealth, which is contrary to the Islamic social interest which stands for co-operation and brotherhood. Moreover, it is thought that interest creates an idle class of people who receive their income from accumulated wealth, thus depriving the society of their labour, skills, and enterprises.
Source: http://www1.sim.edu.sg/sim/pub/m ... ms=entrepreneur#top |
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Sherlyn...
Originally posted by sherlyn at 8-8-2006 10:53 AM
my moslem friend told me that Riba is Haram in Islam... can anyone tell me if it's true? if true, then why is it haram..? she also doesn't know why is it haram when I asked her...:stp:
Contd...Why Riba is haram?
The Islamic approach emanates from a foundation set of ethical principles. So discussion of Islamic finance in connection with global financial practices introduces an ethical dimension .. |
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Author
Post time 4-8-2006 10:35 AM
