Concept Of Reincarnation - Let's Debate :)

Obersliutenant

if noone can remember what exactly the form they once was .... then how was the theory of reincarnation proven?

Sephiroth

by i212   

If that is true, then everyone should be climbing trees everywhere. I have seen only a certain people have such interest. Explain that.
Curiosity.

Curiosity MY FOOT. Might as well say the devils tells the people to climb trees. ;)

Why human need to reincarnated before have some ability?  

Stupid ... they don't reincarnate to have any abilities ... what do you think this is, a video game?

The skills they use in pervious life - like the fondness to music, arts, culture etc is carried forward to this life where they CONTINUE where they have left of in the pervious life. Reincarnation is about continuety.



by Obersliutenant   

Anyways , if the concept of reincarnation is true why cant we remember what we are in the past?Can you remember what you were in the past Seph?  

Stupid ... how many times do I have to say that Reincarnation is not about remembering the past but reshaping the future? You do not need to remember your past. Only those who are in path of Enlightnment (like Buddha) can remember his past and even that is because he is not effected by it (the memory).

There is no need to remember, you just have to work for the future.

Sephiroth

by nightlord   

I dont believe in reincarnation because it suggests that there is a merit system in improving the soul or consciousness, yet talks about individual incarnation into some other animal form.

Oh Christian's great wisdom. ;)
They have NO problem believing that some system where some god commited suicide for THEIR sin and therefore they are saved and going to some heaven, BUT they got problem believing a natural system of recycling exists within the Planet which "recycles" human souls as well as animals. ;)

Physical life (cellular) has nothing to do with consciousnes (ability to think and know what is wrong or right).

If you tell me that there is a reincarnation of consciousness (here i read soul) than i might believe that the universe may allow an event like that given special circumstances.

But if you say that physically in a given cellular form, god will punish or reward based on assigning different cellular attributes is a load of crap.

There is something you guys should think about though.

You're wrong here ... Physical life (cellular) has EVERYTHING to do with Consciousness. A bird is a bird - you can train a parrot to speak a few words but you cannot teach it to have conversation. Same way, you can teach apes to use sign-language but you cannot teach it to read books.

So, consciousness depends on individual make over (physical aspect) and you are conscious as human ONLY because you are born human. Thus, you have chance to reborn as human again (similar consciousness). However, what happens if a human lived like animals - indulge in sex, over-eating, materialistic minded and such? Then his consciousness will take the most suitable form in the next birth where portion of his unused consciousness (like intelligent) will not be used.


Bacteria can pass on learning.......

Yeah, a bacteria if confronted ,for example antibiotics, can learn how to pass on resistance to the antibiotics to the next generation. And no it is not that the surviving bacteria was immune in the first place.

So maybe on a physical level, we may be able to pass on "instinctive knowledge" like
babies ability to learn languages in a true cellular way.

That may account for Seph's childrens experiences of past lives - maybe their brain constitution allowed them to "remember" cellular "memories".

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 3-11-2006 07:59 AM
by i212   

If that is true, then everyone should be climbing trees everywhere. I have seen only a certain people have such interest. Explain that.
Curiosity.

Curiosity MY FOOT. Might as we ...

well well, i can see where this debate is going... wow...  calling people Stupid sepiroth, trigger happy prancy.In fact , i asked nicely anyway.. but if you consider a question as an insult thats your choice...but wait, thats incredibly stupid....

[ Last edited by  Obersliutenant at 3-11-2006 09:19 AM ]

if you don't remember your past , there is no guilt, there is no regret, there is no remorse.

what seph say is illogical,

God will always make us reflect the sins or evil that we did in this world,
to correct ourself, to improve ourself. you cannot become a better person if there is no guilt.

and what seph implying is against the teaching he is propagating.

lets slap him hard and just say, oh, dont be mad, let bygones be bygones!

barney50

1. responded by Obersliutenant :Anyways , if the concept of reincarnation is true why cant we remember what we are in the past?Can you remember what you were in the past Seph?
   
2. 
   
3. f noone can remember what exactly the form they once was .... then how was the theory of reincarnation proven?

Copy the Code

You are not suppose to remember the past. That is the secret of life my friend. By rememebring the past it would would cost alot of complication. One reason is if you remember who your family members or that your wife or children thna you might want to reestablish relationship which would distrub the peace of that family who would see you in a different features, say like you are now born deformed. Would your past family believe that you were their son of say father to your previous children? Another disturbing thing would be like if you had enemies in your past life and that you remember them in the present life surely you would want to trace them to take revenge. All these considered GOD made sure you do not remember yor past life. Now can you understand why it is kept a secret that it should be hidden from your memory? Reincarnation is the truth and no one can deny that fact. May be your scriptures which you believe are from GOD is not really from GOD coz if it was so than it too would explain the concept of life and reincarnation which our scriptures spoke of.

Even the bible has the concept but Christians refuse to believe it. Otherwise why woould Jesus say Jhon the baptist was the reincarnation of prophet Elija. Think of that my friend.

Obersliutenant

thanks barney , i'll add some thought to that ... Just a side note so i can research and rationalise on it later .

[ Last edited by  Obersliutenant at 3-11-2006 11:57 AM ]

Sephiroth

by Obersliutenant   

well well, i can see where this debate is going... wow...  calling people Stupid sepiroth, trigger happy prancy.In fact , i asked nicely anyway.. but if you consider a question as an insult thats your choice...but wait, thats incredibly stupid....

You know what incredibly stupid ... it's when some jokers say people climb trees because they are curious on what is on top OR when some devils tell them to do so. That's stupid.

Curiosity DO NOT give you skills to climb trees, it's only give you skills to drop on the ground and break every bones on your body.;)

Debmey

no no no.. we may have different belief systems and we shld respect that, please don't anyone call each other stupid shall we? I believe everyone is smart here although not everyone is honest.

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2-11-2006 08:48 AM
by i212   

So... if the concept is true... I think we dont have any low-level people already since human being have live thousand or million years.

Define low level people please. :stp:

...

the best Nature has to offer? Where's God?
Cro magnon, neatherthals? wait wait waaait a minute! Seph wasnt this the theory of Charles Darwin?

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 3-11-2006 12:48 PM
by Obersliutenant   

well well, i can see where this debate is going... wow...  calling people Stupid sepiroth, trigger happy prancy.In fact , i asked nicely anyway.. but if you consider a ques ...

WHat??? cant you just say 'Im Sorry'?  it makes a whole load of sense..
no need la segala panjat pokok segala

but yeah...i'll climb the tree anyway just to make you happy ...

i212

by Seph
Curiosity DO NOT give you skills to climb trees,

Seph... do you know how to read and think?
I not saying Curiosity giving skills.

I say CURIOSITY become a starting point to someone.
- When they curios what contain beneath tree,  they will dig the soil.
- When they curios what offer them at top,  they will try to find way to go up, and people call it CLIMB. Do any children can CLIMB before they learn how to do it?


Same as wright brothers or people in their era,
They curios how the feeling when flying like a bird, so they try to invent something that can make them fly.
They can not fly themself. And the ability to invent comes through several testing. They not just know how to build plane on the spot.
People nowadays know how to build a plane because there already guide how to do it. no reincarnation involved.


About the bacteria,
Genetic bring along some information to their successor. I am not biologist but I know the some concept cause I learn in my school time.(not reincarnation.. heheheh)

[ Last edited by  i212 at 3-11-2006 05:04 PM ]

benign

silly babies... again.. they are everywhere.

i have a question? If reincarnation exist, what is the highest form of reincarnation? Man? God)s. Can Seph reincarnate to be one of them God(s)..

barney50

1. responded by benign:silly babies... again.. they are everywhere.
   
2. 
   
3. i have a question? If reincarnation exist, what is the highest form of reincarnation? Man? God)s. Can Seph reincarnate to be one of them God(s)..

Copy the Code

The highest form of incarnation is a Rishi/Spiritual Guru which after that you'll not have a rebirth. Because these people do not have materialistic desire nor live in bondage of samsara[life of householder with unending problems]. They only duty is to GOD and teaching the scriptures to students of Gurukulam[spiritual school].

benign

so in what form does this Spiritual Guru is? Human?

barney50

bengin,

Trying to be sarcastic? Ofcourse in human form but with more intelligent than you or any of your ullamas/muftis who preach hatred and plan on destroying non Muslims.

benign

nope not trying to be sarcastic.. Just questioning your statement.

How do you know that this HUMAN you called RISHI has more intelligence than me and you? And why theres no RISHI in the form of a horse or koala bear? How do you know there is none?

again, im not trying to provoke. In fact i do believe that im stil within the original topic. thank you.l

barney50

1. responded by benign:nope not trying to be sarcastic.. Just questioning your statement.
   
2. 
   
3. How do you know that this HUMAN you called RISHI has more intelligence than me and you? And why theres no RISHI in the form of a horse or koala bear? How do you know there is none?
   
4. 
   
5. again, im not trying to provoke. In fact i do believe that im stil within the original topic. thank you.l

Copy the Code

Coz they look at the world from their inner eyes while you although having two eyes are still considered a blind man as far as spritulism and GOD is concern. Have you not followed what I have said earlier? You are given a final chance to realize the truth and when you fail to do so you go back to the lower form. Man is the final destiny of life to realize the TRUTH and from here you either reach the end or back to the drawing board. So, each life your soul takes a form to fulfill its destiny till it reaches the final stage and that is human form. And if even in this final stage you still make the same mistake of having worldly desires and indulge in sin than your soul returns again and again till it realizes the purpose of it cycle. But what good it would make when you have not been thought about the truth and destiny of life. You religion teaches just the opposite. KILL!KILL!KILL! and promise of paradise in an instance. So no need to worry about ours and you should live the life your religions teaches you.

benign

DESTINY? TRUTH? Explain.

How do you know that HUMAN FORM is the highest form of your REINCARNATION?

So let say you reach the end.. then?

barney50

1. responded by benign:DESTINY? TRUTH? Explain.
   
2. 
   
3. How do you know that HUMAN FORM is the highest form of your REINCARNATION?
   
4. 
   
5. So let say you reach the end.. then?

Copy the Code

Destiny is what mankind has to fulfill and TRUTH is GOD.

Can an animal recite prayers or praise GOD? That is why manikind is the final stage to realize GOD but only a few are able to fulfill their fianl destiny. Most remain have animal and half man. You surmise what it means.