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18# hamizao
Yes, some religious beliefs are simply a matter of faith independent of evidence. To some, faith is more of a matter of feeling and emotions rather than a matter of reason and evidence. As such, it has to be a matter of personal (free) decision and commitment.
Ha! that is interesting. Leap of faith is a matter of personal choice and commitment. Abraham offer to sacrifice his son by slaughtering (Ismail or Issac...depending which book you believe.. ) by the command of All Mighty God.This is a matter of Leap of faith when he bloody well knew that killing a person is immoral...what say you
As Muslim we believe in god by the clear signs around us ...there are many like the orderly cosmos and things around us created by Him, even the regulated temperature of a healthy person is unexplained to us..or by reading the revelations ordained by Him to the unlearned Prophet. As a child I accept his existence as what being told by the teacher and parent then by reading the Holy Quran. However, as I grew up this feeble knowledge began to disturb me but through the study of physical evidences ( rational or empirical) it strengthen my believe of his existence. My first class in quantum physics proofs that sub atomic can only be understood by assuming it to be matter and energy....closed the arguement and all doubts. |
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20# joe1983
If I may add something basic from Quran 2:30 - 39, which extoll the creation of Adam being sent to Earth as viceroy to spread the rule of law (Islamic) He was given more tuition in preparation but was still more inferior to the angels in terms of wisdom and obedience. Sure he was tested in Heaven, did wrong and was forgiven and then sent to Earth. I do not take it as banishment to hard labour, though! |
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Adam was given the choice " to eat or not to eat". He is free to make a choice between good and bad. He choosed to listen to the whispering devil and eat the forbidden fruit and thus banished to earth.....imagine if he has made the right choice.....we would not be lumbered by this agony of earthly existence...think about it. I don't remember of any suffering before my existence and I don't even remember where I was because time and space are irrelevant... |
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2.30. Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: 揑 will create a vicegerent on earth. |
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75.36. Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?
40.11. They will say: 揙ur Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)? |
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19.93. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant. |
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25# joe1983
I would appreciate if you can give some commentaries on the verses you posted.....that would be lovely for all of us ...BTW I have read translation of Quran by Pickthall, AJ Arberry and Yusoff Ali.. |
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23# thamrong
20.117. Then We said: "O Adam! verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife: so let him not get you both out of the Garden, so that thou art landed in misery.
7.19. "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
20. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."
21. And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
20.120. But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?" |
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20.115. We had already, beforehand, taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot: and We found on his part no firm resolve. |
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7.27. O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith. |
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30# joe1983
Mr. Joe yg dikasihi...saya telah bagi kad merah...kalau memahami, alhamdulillah...ini bod idea...harap maklum... |
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31# seribulan
mr joe suruh tamrog baca tafser koran tu..tamrog tanya soalan mantik...soalan mantik ni jawapan dh ada dlm Koran.
cuma kena rajin selak tafsernyer..sebab dlm agama mana-mana pun,God ni bukan persoalan idea..jawapan dia direct melainkan agama tom cruise le.. |
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31# seribulan
mr joe suruh tamrog baca tafser koran tu..tamrog tanya soalan mantik...soalan mantik ni jawapan dh ada dlm Koran.
cuma kena rajin selak tafsernyer..sebab dlm agama mana-mana pun,Go ...
penyapu Post at 6-8-2009 10:54 AM 
mr. joe post dua, tiga, empat tafsir koran kat beberapa thread...bukan ini sahaja...ini bod untuk percambahan idea...berpada-pada kalau nak letak pon...masuk kandang kambing mengembek...masuk kandang lembu menguak...
at least u have the decency to explain things...tak le main letak ajerr... |
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32# penyapu
Due respect to you my dear friend. Materials offered by ourfriend are TRANSLATION of verses not TAFSIRAN...got your fact right...Tafsiranand commentaries what I am waiting for not 'cutand paste' materials.
Kalau sekadar translation, as I said before, I have read many translationincluding AJ Barberry, Nicholson, Marmeduke Pickthall and Yusof Ali. We areliving and conscious being bless with mind or brain mate.
Saying that I am looking the issue in terms of physical and material dimensionof God in not fair.....like telling other I am a secular. God forbids that. Godbeyond everything...omnipotent, omniscience and all knowing.... |
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Cardinal to the Islamic believes and central to the creed is that there is ONE God. The Muslim name for God is Allah. A generic name in Arabic speaking world (both Muslim and Christian) for “the (al) God (Illah)”. The term is related to Elohim (אללה) the Hebrew word for God. Muslims believe that God is the all-powerful Creator of a perfect, ordered universe. He is transcendent and not a part of his creation, and is most often referred to in terms and with names that emphasize his majesty and superiority. |
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Post Last Edit by hamizao at 13-8-2009 23:26
21# thamrong
Ha! that is interesting. Leap of faith is a matter of personal choice and commitment. Abraham offer to sacrifice his son by slaughtering (Ismail or Issac...depending which book you believe..) by the command of All Mighty God.This is a matter of Leap of faith when he bloody well knew that killing a person is immoral...what say you
As I recall, the 10 Commandments were first given to Moses. In ancient Mesopotamia from where Abraham hailed (Ur), the practice of sacrificial rites was a way to appease the gods then. During a battle with the Israelites the king of Moab gave his firstborn son and heir as a whole burnt offering (olah, as used of the Temple sacrifice).Even Cathagenians and Phoenicians practised human sacrifice (1st born) to their gods.
So I would not read too much into the morality aspect of it, Thamrong. Just take it as a way for God to say that there is no need to kill human for Him........!
To me leap of faith is a personal choice much would depends on one's nurture/experience. Faith is believing in something that you cannot absolutely be certain of. It is usually based on some convincing evidence.
When you tell a secret to a friend, you have faith that he would not let you down. Getting married is an act of faith. Driving your car every morning to work thinking that it shall take you there without any hitch is also an act of faith. ....just some simple examples.... |
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Post Last Edit by jooe1983 at 3-9-2009 08:52
27# thamrong
Sayyid Qutb - (In the Shade of the Qur'an)
Man抯 Weakness
In this act of grace, God considers man抯 weakness, the great burden he shoulders
and the trust he has been bearing alone when the heavens, the earth and the mountains refused, fearing that they could not cope with its requirements. Yet man is not only weak; he suffers from pressures created by his desires and inclinations, lack of knowledge, short life span as also barriers of time and place. All this makes him lacking in proper knowledge, unable to see what is beyond barriers or to look far ahead:
We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to bear it and were afraid to receive it. Yet man took it up. He has always been prone to be wicked, foolish. (Verse 72)
The heavens, the earth and the mountains, great and magnificent beings as they are, are chosen for discussion by the Qur抂/font]ān. Compared to these, man who lives in or beside them appears small and insignificant. These creatures, however, know their Lord without having o make an effort. They follow His law by their very nature and the system applicable to them, without need for an intermediary, reflection or choice. They run their respective courses without fail, fulfilling their tasks by virtue of their nature and constitution. The sun moves in its orbit in absolute accuracy, sending its rays and thus fulfilling the role God has assigned to it. It unconsciously holds its satellite planets and other celestial bodies in a set measure of gravity, thus fulfilling its role in the universe. The earth also runs its cycle, yielding its plants and feeding its population, burying the dead and sending up its water in springs, all in accordance with God抯 law, and without having to make a choice. The moon, stars, planets, the wind, the clouds, air and water, mountains and valleys |
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Post Last Edit by thamrong at 12-9-2009 10:17
37# jooe1983
Is this your analysis of just cooked up cut and paste? Let have some original thinking...otherwise all those education meant for nothing and wasted mate. cheers. |
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I walked out of the 'Ceramah Agama after performing my evening solat at, if my memory is still in a perfect working order, Mesjid India Jalan Datuk Klana Klang about 10 years ago. I took my decision f ...
thamrong Post at 17-7-2009 15:58
the shadow in the water
is gone when i threw a pebble
the sorrow became laughter
when i plucked out a mirror from the rubble
u give me freedom
but i found only boredom
u give me power
still i am a loner
where are u when i need u most
i was pricked by the thorn while smelling ur rose
brute is not the way to do it i suppose
u make nature the place for man not to boast
i know i have to purify my heart
and u love it when i found the way is so hard
only this way u will become closest of all my parts
and u are the one who decide if i have won the fight
- children of Rumi |
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37# jooe1983
First few para .....contradictions abound. The rest require finer commentary. Would appreciate it if you could oblige......... |
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Category: Belia & Informasi
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Author
Post time 26-7-2009 11:41 PM
Post time 3-8-2009 09:33 PM
