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Genesis 2:17 : Questions for Truth.8 and Debmey
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wahh....
this topic become more interesting...
there is another version of story we got here
- Debmey's version
- Nick Perelman's version
erkk i wonder what is Truth.8 version :bgrin:
Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 28-11-2006 05:42 AM
1. Because he planned to give it to them when they will be ready.
i've read the whole chapter (gen 1-3) but i didn't see any verse that support your statement..
anyway, could u show me the verse...
if there is no verse...how could u know what is God's planned ?
2. You also could ask why God created people with free will. Ops I forgot that according to KOran people have not free will.
there's no such thing as "free will" for man...
man only can choose whatever he/she want ...
but the consequences is still there..
so,u have to understood the meaning of "free will" and "free choice"....
please don't get confused with those words :nerd:
3. Adam did die. As far as I know. Once he eat fruit he became a mortal creature.
then, how would u explain this:
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
from this verse, doesn't it shows that Adam/Eve still can die ?
[ Last edited by karengkang at 28-11-2006 04:53 PM ] |
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so far, there is 2 version we got here
1- why your God create "fruit of good and evil" at the first place ?
Debmey's version - God did not create fruit of good and evil but 'tree of knowledge of good and evil'.This is to tell them to seek knowledge only from Him.
Perelman's version - Because he planned to give it to them when they will be ready.
2- why must God the most powerful,the most wise, the most in everything ...
create and put something important/sacred/danger that can be reach by any of His creation ?
Debmey's version - So show him that there are boundaries in life for man and there are choices and responsibility.
Perelman's version - You also could ask why God created people with free will.
"...for when you eat of it you will surely die."
3- can God lie ?
Debmey's version - God never lied. Adam and Eve ate from teh tree and died spiritually.
Perelman's version - 3. Adam did die. As far as I know. Once he eat fruit he became a mortal creature.
i still wonder...
what is Truth.8 version :lol
[ Last edited by karengkang at 28-11-2006 04:57 PM ] |
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can anybody tell me what is "died spiritually" exactly means ? |
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Originally posted by karengkang at 28-11-2006 04:35 PM
i've read the whole chapter (gen 1-3) but i didn't see any verse that support your statement..
anyway, could u show me the verse...
if there is no verse...how could u know what is God's planned ?
Beside written Torah there is also tradition that passed from father to son since Adam.
there's no such thing as "free will" for man...
man only can choose whatever he/she want ...
but the consequences is still there..
so,u have to understood the meaning of "free will" and "free choice"....
please don't get confused with those words
There is borth free will and free choice. If you dont believe in it, its your problem.
then, how would u explain this:
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
from this verse, doesn't it shows that Adam/Eve still can die ?
If they were not eating from tree of knowledge before the time, God would give them both and they were living forever. Since they eat from tree of knowledge without permition, God sends them away hense He commits his promise and they die.
I am glad that you are studying Torah and asking question.
cheers. |
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Hello Nick...
before we continue our discussion..
i would like to know whether u are Jewish or Christian ?
Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 28-11-2006 07:06 PM
Beside written Torah there is also tradition that passed from father to son since Adam.
- what kind of "tradition" are u talking about ?
- where is that source from ?
There is borth free will and free choice. If you dont believe in it, its your problem.
please give me an example of "free will" in human's life (if it really exist)
If they were not eating from tree of knowledge before the time, God would give them both and they were living forever. Since they eat from tree of knowledge without permition, God sends them away hense He commits his promise and they die.
for now, i will take this as one's assumption...
until u can provide me a valid statement from valid source...
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Mr.Rie This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by karengkang at 28-11-2006 04:49 PM
so far, there is 2 version we got here
1- why your God create "fruit of good and evil" at the first place ?
Debmey's version - God did not create fruit of good and evil but 'tree of ...
what a BIG confusion among the christians:gado: n yet try to condemn others
how pathetic
:lebai: |
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 28-11-2006 07:06 PM
I am glad that you are studying Torah and asking question.
thanks Nick...
i want to ask one more thing ...
according your faith and understanding, is God has the "same shape" like us ?
i mean like walk, talk and such
anyway, thanks again for your response |
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i can see that Truth.8 don't have balls to answer my question
Goat's people konon |
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I already did.
I can see that karenkang have no replies to by answers and counter questions.
cheers |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 28-11-2006 10:29 PM
I already did.
I can see that karenkang have no replies to by answers and counter questions.
cheers
i will...
but not for now..
i have to hear what other Christian want to say about that..
p/s: still waiting for Truth stucked 8 :bgrin: |
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Debmey...
by the way, can u elaborate the meaning of "died spiritually" ? |
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Originally posted by karengkang at 28-11-2006 08:49 PM
Hello Nick...
before we continue our discussion..
i would like to know whether u are Jewish or Christian ?
I am jewish
- what kind of "tradition" are u talking about ?
- where is that source from ?
Tradition is teaching that is passed from father to son. Adam passed teachings to Seth, Seth to Enocj, Enoch to Noach, Noach to Shem, Shem to Abraham, Abraham to Isaac, Isaac to Jacob, Jacob to his sons, they passed it to Amram, Amram to Moses, Moses passed tradition to people of Israel.
please give me an example of "free will" in human's life (if it really exist)
Everyone has many inclinations and incentives, ability to chose between them is a free will.
for now, i will take this as one's assumption...
until u can provide me a valid statement from valid source...
It's not assumption but explanation that you asked for. This explanation is based on tradition that traces from Adam.
All the best |
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Originally posted by karengkang at 28-11-2006 09:02 PM
thanks Nick...
i want to ask one more thing ...
according your faith and understanding, is God has the "same shape" like us ?
i mean like walk, talk and such
anyway, thanks ag ...
God has not shape. |
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Originally posted by karengkang at 28-11-2006 10:42 PM
Debmey...
by the way, can u elaborate the meaning of "died spiritually" ?
no more immortality and seperation from God. What else? |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 28-11-2006 11:05 PM
no more immortality and seperation from God. What else?
so, are u saying that before Adam and Eve ate that "fruit" ..
both of them are immortal ?
how would u explain this ?
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." |
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 28-11-2006 11:00 PM
Tradition is teaching that is passed from father to son. Adam passed teachings to Seth, Seth to Enocj, Enoch to Noach, Noach to Shem, Shem to Abraham, Abraham to Isaac, Isaac to ...
if that so..
why Jewish explanation are different from Christianity explanation ?
both of u using the same book (Torah)...
**this question also applied to Debmey and Truth.8**
Everyone has many inclinations and incentives, ability to chose between them is a free will.
it's still sounds like "free choice" to me ...
example:
1- there are many religion in this world...one can choose what he/she think it's the best for them ..
2- there are many transportation can get u to somewhere u want...but it's u who decide which one will u use
and so on..and so on...
It's not assumption but explanation that you asked for. This explanation is based on tradition that traces from Adam.
i see...
so Adam told Seth...Seth told Enocj...Enocj told Noach...bla bla bla.....up until Moses...
but somehow, there must be "someone" who told Adam about that...
that "someone" is God...
are u agree with me ?
and if God did told Adam about His planned...
i assumed there must be written somewhere in any books...
especially Torah..
tradition can be wrong..
but the word of God cannot..
that's my point actually...
so can u quote any verse from Torah to made your statement valid about this "God's planned"
[ Last edited by karengkang at 29-11-2006 05:33 PM ] |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 28-11-2006 11:05 PM
no more immortality and seperation from God. What else?
i would like to ask u the same question ..
according to your understanding ..
do God has shape like us ?
i mean like walk, talk and such
[ Last edited by karengkang at 30-11-2006 01:49 PM ] |
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Originally posted by karengkang at 29-11-2006 05:31 PM
if that so..
why Jewish explanation are different from Christianity explanation ?
both of u using the same book (Torah)...
They dont have tradition that we got from prophets, so they invented their own explanations.
it's still sounds like "free choice" to me ...
Thats matter of semantics.
and if God did told Adam about His planned...
i assumed there must be written somewhere in any books...
especially Torah..
If u write everything in Torah then it would be 50 books not one. Torah contains main issues. Details are explained by tradition.
best wishes,
Nick |
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 29-11-2006 08:50 PM
They dont have tradition that we got from prophets, so they invented their own explanations.
okay...
now, lets assume that u have the right source..
Prophet Jesus (pbuh) also a Jewish isn't he ?
"someone" must told him about that
are u agree or not ?
and Christians have more book then Jewish...
the Bible includes Torah,Psalm and Injeel...
none of the books told them about "God's planned" u mentioned before
how come they (Christian) don't get that information.. ?
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deepjunior This user has been deleted
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Author
Post time 28-11-2006 07:06 PM
