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Believe in Jesus Christ,.. you dont need to be a christian.(Stay as Moslem)
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Originally posted by nightlord at 2-9-2006 11:47 PM
The problem is that muslims claim that the characteristics of Allah is infinite and that man can only understand 99 "names" of him.
In other words, muslims would not know Allah even if ...
god and human with a giant divide is natural.....
if there is nothing different between god and man, you can call a man as god and a god as man.. and you will confuse to death |
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davidchemic This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Einard at 31-8-2006 12:31 PM
Jesus
Who Do You Say That He Is?
Nearly 2,000 years ago, Jesus asked the question, "What do you think of Christ? Whose Son is He?" (Matthew 22:42). A person's answer to that questio ...
Einard, why don't you believe in Muhammad too? Believe in Muhammad,... you don't have to be a Muslim. |
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Originally posted by davidchemic at 3-9-2006 10:39 AM
Einard, why don't you believe in Muhammad too? Believe in Muhammad,... you don't have to be a Muslim.
Why should I? Hes not coming on Judgement Day. He said, Isa Almasih will come. |
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Why would God suddenly become three gods when, in the OT, it is proclaimed, again and again, that "the Lord our God is ONE Lord"? The Israelites did not believe in a trinity, nor do the Jews. God is ONE, not three, so why do you worship three instead of one?
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Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 2-9-2006 11:14 PM
Tommy: The point is that I do. It is only a Christian that would say that someone else doesn't understand "christian"!
Tommy: Now, that's really cute.. you have no comm ... "Jesus said that he kept the commandments of HIS FATHER and that was the reason that the Father abides in him"
Well, which commandments of His Father that Jesus abides Tommy? Did you know that Jesus he didnt follow the commandments in Torah? If you studied and attended at least "sunday school for kids" you should know. So tell me which commandments? Do you know which commandments He meant?
"if a man says that he knows him and keeps not his commandments, he is a liar and the truth is not in him"! Now you wouldn't want me to take your word on such matters over that of Jesus would you? He said to "know them by their fruits"!
Which commandments my friend? dont mixed up.. it was not the one in Torah. I expect you are expert in this, so no need verses right? My muslim friends ask me, the Bible did said dont eat pig, but why you eat? why dont you follow it? This is the basic problem with those who dont understand Christian and Bible. For them A is A and B is B. That is Torah. Convenant with blood!. Those who keeps all of the commandments but fail one, will fail all, no one will survive, God have mercy? Dont tell me you have followed all the "Laws" without fail even once. "Niat saja pun, you already sinned against God."
"Know them by their fruits"? oh yeah I have witness the Moslem fruits.. they yell "Allahu Akbar" and cuts someone's head!.
[ Last edited by Einard at 3-9-2006 06:53 PM ] |
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Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 3-9-2006 11:27 AM
Why would God suddenly become three gods when, in the OT, it is proclaimed, again and again, that "the Lord our God is ONE Lord"? The Israelites did not believe in a trinity, nor do the J ...
Good, now you learn. Why in OT one God, Why NT 3 Gods? How do you ready history books? From chapter 1 to finish right? People in OT also like you the moslem, they say "The One", "Almighty", "Merciful", "Alfa and Omega" and so on and so fort, they dont know who is "God". In fact, God dont want them to have "king", God is thier King, but people of the book insist to have King. People in OT know God through a voice... do I need to repeat? you know that right. people in OT know nothing about God , they r taught just like Muhammad.. believe Allah.. full stop!. They were reminded over and over again, but they never follow God's messages through his "prophets". How many prophets? too many and yet they failed. NT is the new agreement with God and will not send another prophet, no one will listen. He himself have to come. No prophet but followers. You know that, I shouldnt repeat. 3 Gods? Jesus explains his relationship with Father, The Almighty, Merficul, Alfa and Omega, and so on, with Him and the Holy Spirit which will continue His work here on earth. He is Almighty right? why cant He do that? God want to be with His creation. Thats the basic chonology.. |
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Einard: ............ Jesus explains his relationship with Father,
Tommy : Yes he does. He NEVER claims to be god. He claims to get all his power from god. He claims he is the messenger from god. He claims he is not all powerful, not all knowing. He prays to god. He admits he has a god.
Its the Christians who once again cannot understand scripture.
If the trinity doctrine or belief existed before the council of nicene, then why did Constantine have to threaten the council to accept, or pain of banishment or worse, that the father and son were coequal and coeternal?
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Well, in going through verse by verse I am always amazed at how insultingly anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish the New Testament actually is. What is odd is that the Gospel's are loaded with plenty of outrageous things Jesus said and did that would have gotten him stoned outright, the issue of crucifxion is senseless and the stories baseless of any fact.
The problem in general is always reading these texts with a seriousness they were written as is, concerning some historical event, that is just not the case. As for Jesus being God, I could go a long way around the mountain with that one. In summary some believed Jesus was God, some believed he was an immortal Aeon and God like, some believed he was just a man and still others that he never really existed at all in physical sense.
What Einard cannot and will not grasp in addition to the above is that there never was one single belief of Christianity there were many. Many types groups and sects of all sorts of Christians and Gnostic Christians, they all believed their highly variant and often contradictory claims and beliefs were the real truth. People like Einard actually think they can base their personal beliefs in something other than their imagination. It's been done. It's still the infinite variant pethora of nonsense it always was. Tell us a few facts concerning Jesus Einard and why you believe them and where you get the premise for them. Aren't you supposed to testify of your faith so that others might attempt to grasp your beliefs as some sort of truth? Which type of "Christian" are you?
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Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 4-9-2006 09:53 AM
Tommy : Yes he does. He NEVER claims to be god. He claims to get all his power from god. He claims he is the messenger from god. He claims he is not all powerful, not all knowing. He prays to ...
Bible is the only book had undergone so many studied, analysis, test and so on. And the Trinity doctine was the outcome.. nothing to do with politics. Not like Quran, it fails all test. Jesus never said He was God? History confirmed that He was crucified because of his teaching, which Islam deny.. as usual, If his teaching was equal to the people of the book, Theres not need for them to kill him, they just ignore, like what they did on other prophets. He was kill because He said that He is equal to God. I and Father are one, No one will come to Father except through Me, If you seen me, you already seen God, and many more.. How can you say the christians dont know their scriptures? it just like me saying you dont understand what Quran said, right? which in fact you do understand your Quran more than me. Its the work of God in me who enable me to understand His words, that was the third personality of God, Holy Spirit. Early Christian beliefs, yes, Jesus is the Lord, God, The Christ, Saviour. This is the message .. God with us. Emmanuel. Yeah you dont believe, because for you God is so REMOTE, out of this world, we cant understand it... we were separated from God... you need someone like Muhammad to tell you what next. My God is alive..in me?.. yeah you'll never understand christian. I pray for you and your family. |
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It's interesting that not all Christians accept the Trinity as valid. There's nothing in the Bible explicitly stating the doctrine, and since it violates reason, some reject the idea.
Denise: Yes, back in 2001 Barna Research did a survey in America regarding the Holy Spirit as being a living "entity" and 61% of those surveyed said they did not believe it to be. [url]http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=6[/url]
It is very interesting to look at some of the polls regarding what Christians accept as valid and what their "denominations" specify that they don't agree with!
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Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 4-9-2006 04:23 PM
It's interesting that not all Christians accept the Trinity as valid. There's nothing in the Bible explicitly stating the doctrine, and since it violates reason, some reject the idea.
Denise: ...
Thats correct tommy, in fact alot of people in the west are not christian, there were no christian country in the world!, except for Vatican City, self proclaim. I felt so sad when Moslem said they were attacked by Christian country when it was the Americans and British attack Afganistan. They are not.. if you go to any churches in the west, you'll see only old folks inside. 10 to 20 percent of the population. The rest? you tell me. They r christian in names but they never a christian, err like you I presume. Its only a poll, it doesnt reflex the teaching of christian.
[ Last edited by Einard at 4-9-2006 04:41 PM ] |
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Bible is the only book had undergone so many studied, analysis, test and so on. And the Trinity doctine was the outcome.. nothing to do with politics.
Tommy: Apparently you have no idea what history is? I already explained where the notion of the three being one originated from.
Not like Quran, it fails all test. Jesus never said He was God? History confirmed that He was crucified because of his teaching, which Islam deny.. as usual, If his teaching was equal to the people of the book, Theres not need for them to kill him, they just ignore, like what they did on other prophets.
Tommy: According to the Bible, Jesus was creating quite a scene.
He was kill because He said that He is equal to God. I and Father are one,
Tommy: Here is where Christian ignorance and logic rears its ugly head. My wife and I are one. Are we the same person? Yes or no?
No one will come to Father except through Me,
Tommy : Yes, Jesus explained this very carefully. You must ACCEPT Jesus as the savior in order to get to god.
If you seen me, you already seen God,
Tommy: Yes, Jesus explained this very carefully. Refering to his actions and message. In fact, John makes it clear NO ONE has seen god. So again, you pick and choose what verse you want to believe, ignore the context and delete anything contrary.
and many more.. How can you say the christians dont know their scriptures Its the work of God in me who enable me to understand His words,
Tommy: Its not the work of god. Its all the sites you run to. Its really is silly when you say god is in you. Can you show evidence of this? Of course not. You put 10 Christians in a room, give them an indepth Bible quiz....you'll get different answers. Give the non-believer a computer, he'll get the answers faster and correct all the time. Why is that?
that was the third personality of God, Holy Spirit. Early Christian beliefs, yes, Jesus is the Lord, God, The Christ, Saviour. This is the message .. God with us. Emmanuel.
Tommy: LMAO! And you show EXACTLY what I mean. Jesus is NOT Emmanuel. Which again, shows YOU do not know scripture.
14Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
The chapter refers to a child which will be a sign for King Ahaz. It states this! It gives times and places. It gives names! Yet why do you call Jesus Immanuel! Easy! Matthew thought it was about Jesus!
23"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel"
Guess what? Jesus is NEVER called that. He is named Jesus. This is another example of hundreds of midrash. Which shows the gospel stories were created by scanning the Tanach and grabbing scripture.
God in you, in which it helps you understand scirpture? You just showed otherwise. Isa 7:14 is nto a future prophecy. It does not state this. It clearly states the context. As usual, Christians ignore the context. They have to.
Jesus never stated he was god. Yet he states that he has one. Yet all you do is ignore this.
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the book was written in English....
we muslim do translate Isa (malay) to Jesus (English),
the name translation are made as to ease our new believer who just joinning islam,
we believe almost nearly doomsday....
Isa will return (NOT IN CRUCIFIX)....will guide our muslim from apostate,
or betraying our muslim belief...
well i guess....Isa (or jesus) was a muslim afterall ?
and forumer tommy already stated dat jesus its not God...but a muslim leader during almost doomsday. |
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Post time 2-9-2006 11:58 PM
Post time 3-9-2006 10:39 AM
Author
