ONLY "NOT SO SMART" PEOPLE INVEST IN MUTUAL FUNDS

sany48

Originally posted by Eus at 26-9-2005 08:46 AM



To those pakcik and makcik, they actually were buying "hope". Serupa la macam orang jual dan beli insurance etc... buying and selling "hope".

But beside that, most of t ...

ASB is undeniably the most flexible and safest investment vehicle for the non-savvy investor, BUT unfortunately, we can't invest our EPF money in it...

Too bad....

Originally posted by sany48 at 26-9-2005 11:09 AM


ASB is undeniably the most flexible and safest investment vehicle for the non-savvy investor, BUT unfortunately, we can't invest our EPF money in it...

Too bad....

Yes.. too bad. That's why in my opinion, to make my EPF money work harder for me, since I can't put them in ASB, the next better thing to do than collecting a mere 4.75% per annum is to diversify them in UT. Then, when someone come along the way and say that it is a stupid move, I would love to give that a bit of a challenge..... ;)

sany48

Originally posted by batu kikir at 26-9-2005 10:37 AM


When we talk about investment, do you confine your investment definition to a narrow scope like buy/sell shares, money market instruments, unit trusts etceteras.

Ooooppppsss.............shal ...

Hi,

Investment in shares are only part of it.. no doubt about it.....

We do a lot investment elsewhere..on our spouse... our children..our cars...so.. it is ok to invest somewhere else...but have you ever invested for yourself... you mind..yout thought..need some sort of investment too.. for example.. you read Quran.. read motivational books.. I suggest you get yourself a book entitle THE MAGIC OF THINKING BIG ..a good book to read...for individual.. corporate peoplel

When we discuss about investment here.. we are using our money in EPF..cash.. to invest so that we would eb able to get higher return.....That is about it. butttttttttt if we do not like to accept ittttttt.. also cannnnnn... just remmeber one thing..just because you do not feel like wanna do it.. you can't influence other to do so... that is my point...



Regards.
Sany

batu kikir

Originally posted by Eus at 26-9-2005 10:44 AM



I confined my discussion here to the "stupidity" of those who do investment in UT using EPF money, which I believe the main issue in this topic opened by yourself. Correct me if I'm ...

Hi Eus,

My intention is to caution people in investing in UT  and not to be carried away by the gimmicks and antics of the UT agent which they themselves are not well equipped in the world of investment. And this apply to any money that you own, EPF inclusive.

UT agent is similar to salesperson no matter what. As a commission earned sales people.....their products are all about good things e.g. good return, save investment bla..bla.

But my question,

CAN YOU ALL UT AGENT GUARANTEE THIS??

[ Last edited by batu kikir at 26-9-2005 11:37 AM ]

sany48

Originally posted by Eus at 26-9-2005 10:44 AM



I confined my discussion here to the "stupidity" of those who do investment in UT using EPF money, which I believe the main issue in this topic opened by yourself. Correct me if I'm ...

I think to use that kinda approach will give us nowhere.. it is because we are pointing a finger to some..the investor.. the agent.. stuff like that....

So I would suggest..let us open for discussion.. anythin openly.. without condenming someone..anyone....let's share what ever we wanna share.. so If you respect my writing.. I will have to respect you writing.... whether my writing or your writing is good or bad..... that is for everyone to decide.. I guess that should be healthier thing to do..

As a matter of fact.. we all are discussing in a free web. in a free country... we do we have to set a limit..




Sany

[ Last edited by sany48 at 28-9-2005 01:53 PM ]

zamz00

Originally posted by Eus at 26-9-2005 08:46 AM



To those pakcik and makcik, they actually were buying "hope". Serupa la macam orang jual dan beli insurance etc... buying and selling "hope".

But beside that, most of t ...

actually kekadang kesian gak tgk pakcik2 makcik2 yg kekadang tak tau pun pasal konsep unit trust ni...tapi masuk jugak sbb agent kata every year dpt return 20%
banding dgn epf..
agent pun bukannya tau sangat pasal market..aku dah byk jugak jumpa agen unit trust ni...diorang pun main dgr2 je cam gosip la jugak..

even fund manager pun susah nak forecast market..ni kan pulak agent..
so aku rasa kalau nak masuk unit trust nak depend on agent tu cam payah sikitlaa..
kena buat research sendiri...
skrg ni sume unit trust ada homepage sendiri and ada daily report pun on
economic review and analysis..
rajin2la sikit membaca before masuk market..

batu kikir

Originally posted by Eus at 26-9-2005 11:15 AM





Yes.. too bad. That's why in my opinion, to make my EPF money work harder for me, since I can't put them in ASB, the next better thing to do than collecting a mere 4.75% per annum is to d ...

Yes you can make your EPF money work hard for you....who doesn't.
But a matter of facts, many UT investors using EPF money are crying foul nowadays, have you check this fact. Read all this resources with clear mind not sentiments.
If you think you are a smart investor (by buying UT) ..... think again.
BTW have you read the book by Robert (sorry I have forgotten this Japanese American name in full)? If not....why not invest a little bit in buying his books.

batu kikir

Originally posted by zamz00 at 26-9-2005 11:36 AM



actually kekadang kesian gak tgk pakcik2 makcik2 yg kekadang tak tau pun pasal konsep unit trust ni...tapi masuk jugak sbb agent kata every year dpt return 20%
banding dgn epf..

..

Ramai yang invest UT pakai EPF dah kantoi skang. Tak caya rajin2 baca suratkhabar.
Sekurang2 nya EPF ade jugak dividend, duit pokok tak susut satu sen pun.
Kawan saya masuk UT pakai EPF, rugi 5 ribu (duit pokok) dalam masa lima tahun.

Yang kenyang UT agent gak.

bb_nessa

Originally posted by sany48 at 26-9-2005 11:07 AM



Well done!!!!!!!!! You have the vision yourself.....what kinda product do you sell?

just small product that can earn enuf money to spend it for just daily eating, maybe,... not much...

shahgti

Originally posted by sany48 at 26-9-2005 11:05 AM



Good for you.. do not know.. or do not know.. you can get 2-in1 things.. being an investor and an agent about the same time...being an agent for me..again.. it is more than getting commission ...

your choice sany. good thing about this forum is ppl here will not simply accept things & will continue question & propose alternatives if they have. the discussions we having in this forum will be an eye opener for some ppl if not all. it is good to have a UT agents in this forum to answer all the inputs & feedback given. whatever move we make in investment, it will depend on our own risk profile. but at any point of time we should not apply our own profile to others (i refer to UT agent who are using pushing techniques). Good to have you here to converse further.

Originally posted by batu kikir at 26-9-2005 11:46 AM


Yes you can make your EPF money work hard for you....who doesn't.
But a matter of facts, many UT investors using EPF money are crying foul nowadays, have you check this fact. Read all this res ...

It a fact that a lot of accidents were caused by careless drivers, but that doesn't make all drivers careless.

Likewise, not all those invest in UT are "not so smart" just because your friend make a 5K loss. He definately is.

It is still a fact that there are a lot of people are making more than EPF returns in UT.

BTW, his name is Robert Kiyosaki (sp?). I've read his book twice. Which of his quote are you refering to?


;)

[ Last edited by Eus at 27-9-2005 09:31 AM ]

Originally posted by shahgti at 26-9-2005 07:04 PM



your choice sany. good thing about this forum is ppl here will not simply accept things & will continue question & propose alternatives if they have. the discussions we having in this ...

Agreed. Not every writting is swallowed blindly.

Everyone invest their own money within their capacity to handle the risk, and their ability to balance its rewards. While some will feel content to a small returns of certain saving vehicle, others may want to take a bolder route even if that route means the possibility to accept a certain level of loss.

"You said that you would teach me if I worked for you. Well, I've worked for you. I've worked hard. I've given up my baseball games to work for you. And you don't keep your word. You haven't taught me anything. You are a crook like everyone in town thinks you are. You're greedy. You want all the money and don't take care of your employees. You make me wait and don't show me any respect. I'm only a little boy, and I deserve to be treated better."

Rich dad rocked back in his swivel chair, hands up to his chin, somewhat staring at me. It was like he was studying me.

"Not bad," he said. "In less than a month, you sound like most of my employees."

"What?" I asked. Not understanding what he was saying, I continued with my grievance. "I thought you were going to keep your end of the bargain and teach me. Instead you want to torture me? That's cruel. That's really cruel."

"I am teaching you," rich dad said quietly.

"What have you taught me? Nothing!" I said angrily. "You haven't even talked to me once since I agreed to work for peanuts. Ten cents an hour. Hah! I should notify the government about you. We have child labor laws, you know. My dad works for the government, you know."

"Wow!" said rich dad. "Now you sound just like most of the people who used to work for me. People I've either fired or they've quit."

~ Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad

[ Last edited by Eus at 27-9-2005 11:06 AM ]

sany48

Originally posted by batu kikir at 26-9-2005 11:25 AM


Hi Eus,

My intention is to caution people in investing in UT  and not to be carried away by the gimmicks and antics of the UT agent which they themselves are not well equipped in the world  ...

Hi,

You were asking about the guaranteed good return in investment in UT right? Well.. I think..No one as agents can't guaratee to you.. the return.. if they say so.. you have got the wrong info... even the Fund Manager will never guarantee you the return..

Even let say Dana Al Hikmah in SBB provide returns 19.08% last year....we still say.. "Past performance is not the indication of the future" All the analysis is base on the previous data and also the current situation.. for example. because the fuel price hike.. some of the funds are badly hurt...no doubt about it..

And yes.. investing in UT is a risk.. if you are not a risk taker.. just not invest in it.. maintain your money in EPF.. and enjoy getting dividends as much as 4.75% per year.. in UT we say High risk high return.. for this case.. Low risk..low return..that is your choice...life is all about choice..

Also I like to tell you thatI have never plan to get clients thru forum. If I were to have kinda intention, I would never post the forum.. .But I like to share my knowledge.. exchange ideas.. see how people feel...think about UT... that is all. and I learn to get people respon. enquiries..rejections.. so that I whenever I meet my real clients.. it would help me quite a bit...

.

Sany

[ Last edited by sany48 at 27-9-2005 01:54 PM ]

sany48

EUS wrote:

It a fact that a lot of accidents were caused by careless drivers, but that doesn't make all drivers careless.
Likewise, not all those invest in UT are "not so smart" just because your friend make a 5K loss. He definately is.
It is still a fact that there are a lot of people are making more than EPF returns in UT.

Well.. if people are comfortable with EPF return.. then just do nothing.

Let me explain my point here.....

Let say you have RM100,000 in EPF now...which is divided into 3 different acc

  Acc 1 (60%) = 60,000.00
  Acc 2 (30%) = 30,000.00
  Acc 3 (10%) = 10,000.00

According to the EPF scheme, in order to invest in UT, your can only take out some of the money only from Acc 1
which is 60,000.00, (minimum 55,000.00)

Out of 60,000.00, min to be retained in EPF is 50,000.00, so

                 60,000.00
               - 50,000.00
               ----------------
                 10,000.00

With the balance of 10,000.00, you are entitled to take out only 20% at a time (At every 3 months). So,
                10,000.00 x 0.2 = 2,000.00

Now, you are are taking 2,000 of 100,000 (0.2%) to invest in UT. The other 98,000.00 still belong to EPF. In other words, you are taking a small portion of your core money to be invested in UT.

So Mr EUS, of course if you compare in quantity.. definitely EPF will give more profit as compared to UT

    98,000.00 x 0.0475 = 4,655.00
    2,000.00   x 0.1908  = 381.60

Why the government introduce the Scheme anyway? Does the Government blindly approve the scheme? Why MTUC has never rejected the scheme like they have done for Annuity scheme?

Well. it is because Government realise that your money in EPF can only give you like 5% per year due to EPF limitation. TThis is a force saving money..so EPF cannot take a risk to invest in a risk companies. When there is no risk.. again, the return will be less. Thus, those people who like to get more return, they are allowed to take some portion of the money and invest in UT which give return min 8-12% peryear...Anyway, there is no compulsory.. those who prefer to invest can apply for these scheme..

Also government realises that most of the Malays.. are lacking of experiences in managing their money. So the Goverment has let the private sector to help these people make more money..hoping that at 55, the Malays will get extra money on top what they are getting from EPF..

Plus, I would say 80% of the Malays has no cash in hand..so using partial money from EPF is another way of doing it..

But I have never undermined people saving capability though. A client of mine, just a clerk..invested RM5000.00 in cash..whereas a couple whom work in a bank..only manage to invest RM500.00 cash due too many commitments...like the old saying says.. "Besar periuk. besar la keraknya".. but I like to change it to  "Besar periuk. besar la simpanannya" ..I think the latter is more relevant...


I hope that explains quite a bit about the scenario...I am just sharing..


Sany

[ Last edited by sany48 at 28-9-2005 12:05 AM ]

Andak

Investment is about risk... Its depends on what kind of risk u are willing to take... UT performance is related to performances of the KLSE.... so, if u invest when the market is at all time high and u check your fotfolio when the market is at all time low, what do u expect??  Do your homework, check your fotfolio periodically.... but one thing for sure, UT is for long term.. u must have the capabalities to hold on, otherwise just stay out of UT.. it is not your kind of investment...

MACD

Originally posted by Eus at 24-9-2005 09:01 PM



You can't do that with your EPF money.

EPF just give a mere 4+ % per annum interest. Invest those money smartly in Mutual Fund may give you more in the long run. By "invest smartly&qu ...

Oh yes of course. I forgot that some if not most people in this forum have many years of contribution to EPF. And they have more than RM50K in their EPF account, if I get the figure correctly, which allow them to invest the extras in mutual funds.

My scenario is probably relevant to those who have less than five years of EPF contribution like me.

sany48

There are a few tips before you like to consider investing in any unit trust:

a. The expected return is always from a medium to long term investment (3-5 years). There is a case where a client
     already insisted for return after one month of investment even though I have mentioned about ROI vs. time invested
b. Get yourself the best unit trust consultants (UTC) or so called financial consultants among the best by checking
     is/her sales, promotions, achievements, etc.
c. If you are not ready for any risk, please do not invest. Just save wherever place you are comfortable with. Jangan
    nanti salahkan lantai sebab tak pandai hip hop!

Kilokahn

Kiyosaki is a fraud:

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

shahgti

Originally posted by Kilokahn at 27-9-2005 03:46 PM
Kiyosaki is a fraud:

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

memang ler. ramai yg tahu kiyosaki ni penyampaiannya fiction sket tapi kalau kita tapis2 & positive thinking ada gak betulnya. contohnya Kiyosaki kata, poor & middle class people spent their life utk beli LIABILITY, manakala rich people spent their life utk beli ASSET. takkan yg ni pun tak betul. memang ler penyampaian cerita Kiyosaki secara gaya penyedap cerita (gaya menulis novel fiction), tapi senang difahami oleh orang kebanyakan, general public. sebab tu ramai yg beli walaupun mrk bukan ahli AMWAY. malah buku Rich Dad Poor Dad sekarang masih laris di kedai2 buku di Malaysia. sebenarnya byk buku2 finance yg too technical sukar diterima oleh golongan kebanyakan melainkan orang2 yg dah ada asas finance. buku Kiyosaki ambil secara general jer & disampaikan secara novel picisan tapi yg penting mesej dia sampai. contohnya Kiyosaki sebut financial knowledge mesti diajar kpd anak2 pada peringkat awal lagi sebelum mrk besar & sebelum mrk melaku major financial mistake. Mesej & contoh2 yg disertakan dlm bukunya senang orang biasa nak paham. janji mesej sampai, dan pembaca dpt kesedaran bahawa financial planning adalah penting. think positive. wallahualam.

Andak

Anybody can write a book but does he 'walk the talk?'