Science Perspective: World's Creation According to Bible

Debmey

make sure you read the quran and hadiths too.

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 06:20 AM:
make sure you read the quran and hadiths too.

of course... dont worry...

i shall not only refer to KJV as usual, but to NIV, TNIV, WEB and other version of bible, that i forgot their name.. most of these are Septuagint.

Debmey

Septuagint? Septuagint is Greek OT. Can you understand classic Greek?

don't blow a false horn abt yourself. Just restrict yourself to the NIV. In fact i doubt you will even read the entire NIV Bible. Especially so since you don't even read the quran & hadiths cos you don't understand it anyway.

peace

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 06:30 AM:
Septuagint? Septuagint is Greek OT. Can you understand classic Greek?

don't blow a false horn abt yourself. Just restrict yourself to the NIV. In fact i doubt you will even read the entire NIV  ...

come on debmey..
im not blowing my own trumpet here...

what i refered is

that i forgot their name.. most of these are Septuagint.

you see.. what i meant is other version, not those NIV, KJV, TNIV, WEB, etc...

how if i can produce you some example from septuagint.... oh... ter-open rahsia lak... tak per...

i do hope you do finished reading all your bibles... every version!

greekgod

oh forgotten.... excuse me....

i only have the ability to read a little in greek....
very little, that mean, i can still read!

not like you.. cannot read even your very own holy book...
what an unfortunate of yourself...

Debmey

i do hope yu read every version of the Quran too. But i don't think yu would cos yu can't eveb finish one version.

Go read your quran first, then talk abt reading the Bible OK?

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 06:43 AM:
i do hope yu read every version of the Quran too. But i don't think yu would cos yu can't eveb finish one version.

Go read your quran first, then talk abt reading the Bible OK?

i think, you had misunderstood here....

we only have one version of quran.. dont justify quran like bible, which has so many versions...

transliteration, yes i agree.. there are many, but all of the transliterated copy are made from original quran...

so... only state.. one quran... and your signature probably you can change to

"which transliteration of quran do you read?"

then, other muslim scholars will laugh on you...

Debmey

Just like I am laughing at you. There is only one version of the Bible, the Textus Receptus while the many versions you Muslims claim like NIV, KJV, Septuagint etc are all translations.

Now you are finally getting the point after I apply the logic to your quran.

However, it is true that there are at least 7 versions of the Quran in existence and all claim to be the original. The most common versions are the Warsh and Hafs versions.

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 07:02 AM:
Just like I am laughing at you. There is only one version of the Bible, the Textus Receptus while the many versions you Muslims claim like NIV, KJV, Septuagint etc are all translations.

Now you  ...

hahah... orang ajaran sesat mana la kasik kat ko quran tu yer...

for your information debmey...

we still have few handwriting quran, written about 1300 years ago, still preserved in good conditions. not only you can find in saudi arabia, but also in cairo, constantinople, and some other arab countries...

but, very BIG BUT... bible you have now.. whatsoever name, cannot be compared into any single original version, which left in its original language.

so, how could you people call it a translation, while translation, mean an act to made a duplication - in arts, or transliteration (making the original text into another language) - from its original source. but, where's the source for bible?!

Debmey

no you don't. The oldest qurans are all written in arabic scripts that exists at least 200 years after Mohd died. Most of them are also not fully published for exampmination even by muslims schorlars, unlike the tens of thousands of Bible manuscripots that are openly displayed and published for examination.

You must be cooking up dreams my fren.

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 07:22 AM:
no you don't. The oldest qurans are all written in arabic scripts that exists at least 200 years after Mohd died. Most of them are also not fully published for exampmination even by muslims schorla ...

yes.. im cooking dream for you....

i thought the fact u just work otherwise...

the first quran was written is less than 10 years after Muhammad passed away. and the compilation of quran completed during the reigns of 4 close-friends to the prophet.

unlike bible, you are condeming history! everybody knows that bible was took years away, and after 300+ years, then compilation of bible been made, (synod of nicea).

if history could be a benchmark... bible cannot survived for 300 years in its original text...

and please, dont make history of your own, to claim that quran was written 200 years later (after the death of muhammad)...

that is very very funny to me...

EVERYBODY.. we have new historian here... and to present you, Debmey, the historian... where the history comes from his own mind, not through reading.... applause for him!

greekgod

again.. i wondering...

Which first - beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

greekgod

OK..

Here's the summary of my post for this thread. this will help you understand the creation of the world accoring to bible easily..

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

[ Last edited by greekgod on 26-1-2005 at 07:55 AM ]

Debmey

The truth is, the oldest Bible manuscript dates back 2300 years and it matches the Bible of today. The oldest NT manuscript dates back to the 1st century.

Contrast that with the Quran. The oldest Quran in existence, the Tashkent quran was written in Arabic script with vowels. This script exists at least 200 years after Mohd died.
Besides, parallel independnet history shows no sign of the Quran till the 9th or tenth century.
How can there be no quran dating back to the 7th century like Muslims claim when there are so many ancient manucripts of all sorts in existence today that dates back way before Islam was invented?

So how can

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-1-2005 08:40 AM:
The truth is, the oldest Bible manuscript dates back 2300 years and it matches the Bible of today. The oldest NT manuscript dates back to the 1st century.

Contrast that with the Quran. The oldes ...

i think you are still not clear...

ok.. let me start again..

bible, was not know as single book, until 170 AD, when four book collected into one.

bible, only compiled (with some are throwed out) in 325 AD - Council of Nicea.

you see.. before 325 there are too many books christian had favored, and if and only if Synod of Nicea is correct, then prior christian has misled for more than 300 years.

there's have no hard evidence, that can prove bible's existence prior 140 AD

but quran only take 5 years (or so) to be collected, and less than 20 years to compiled into single book.

i hope you do learn history, before you can speak about it... because the history you had given, to tell you... was never exist in any history book... please, dont put lie here debmey!!!

Debmey

bible, was not know as single book, until 170 AD, when four book collected into one.

bible, only compiled (with some are throwed out) in 325 AD - Council of Nicea.

Not true. The Bible was already canonised by the end of the first century.
Council of Nicea was merely an official endorsement of what was widely accepted.

you see.. before 325 there are too many books christian had favored, and if and only if Synod of Nicea is correct, then prior christian has misled for more than 300 years.

There were many non canonical books in circulation at that time, but mainstream Christianity had no problems with what was divine. Thats why they had a council to formalise the canon.

there's have no hard evidence, that can prove bible's existence prior 140 AD

Contrary to what yu were fed with, there are lots of evidence of the NT existence even in the 1st century. Sermon records from the 1st century alone is sufficient to collate almost the entire NT. ie. if there is no NT with you, by examining the sermon records, you can collate almost the entire NT save a few passages. These sermon manucsripts are still in existence today.
As for the OT, the oldest manuscript dates back 2300 years, so how can you say that no prove bible's existence prior 140 AD. Muslism are obviously lying to you abt this.

but quran only take 5 years (or so) to be collected, and less than 20 years to compiled into single book.

So where is the first copy? Why is the oldest Quran written with vowels dots when such script exists only a few centuries after Mo died?
Further more, there is absolutely no parallel historical records of the Quran. You shld try looking up Patricia Crone's research, she is very schorlarly on this matter.

greekgod

hums... moses came before jesus, and pentateuch which form part of OT should exist earlier.

you probably want to read something about the quran manuscript at

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

Debmey

Note that what Sanaa has are only fragments. A fraction of what the present day Quran has.
Whether it dates back to the 1st century is still in doubt.
What is factual is that the entire manuscript was not published in full for examination even by Muslims schorlars. Why don't they show all they have to support the ioncoruptibility claim of Muslims?

Aren't Muslims trying to hide something?

greekgod

debmey..

when will you post that big bang theory was wrong, and bible was correct..

i cant wait to send another post for you regarding the great flood!

Debmey

since you say that the Bible is wrong because it contradicts the BBT, the real question i need to ask you is, will you stand by the BBT? If you can't, I give yu the option to try get some scientist to help you. I'm always ready.