The evil that had blinded Muslims

barney50 · Post time 25-4-2007 01:49 PM

Reply #279 eastrun's post

My answer:
It applied on those who kill people in purpose,Barney.You are
crazy.Allah didn't said that the law applied upon those who defend
themselves.Try to read in The Holy Quran about this.

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No, that is what you implied. Well, if you say so then those who defend themsleves against Mohammed's troops are innocent victims but still killed by his troops. How would your Allah judge such murderers?
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My answer:
It is not typo error, but it is cut and paste error, Barney.Sorry, you went to the wrong sources.Once again, go to www.islamonline.net
for better understanding about Islam.And read the Holy Quran.All these
while you are lying...so it is a normal phenomena when you do
that.Everybody knows that.

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So, what you are saying is this site [http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/] is a fake? Are the verses a fake? Need your smart brain's valuation.
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My answer:
I want to ask you...why you always judge Islam using the article?.Why
don't you open the Holy Quran and study what is Islam?.Are you saying
that reading the article, which yourself doesn't know the originality
is a research?.

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That article is from the Saudi's site and it proves the point where as you calim is a utter lie. In a Islamic country non Muslims must adhere to Islamic laws and would be tried for crimes according to syariah laws. You are misleading non Muslims to believe in your lies. You are a liar other wise show me your proof what the Saudi Government has legislated for non Muslims.

I said, that the laws applied upon Muslims only, therefore, this
article is fake.Because the practice has nothing to do with the Islamic
teaching.How many should I tell you...don't judge the book by its cover.

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If what the practice of the Saudi Government is not according to Islamic teaching then I dare you to write to the Saudi Governmentof of your disatifaction and their act against the true teachings of Islam. Come on show me you mean what you say as a Muslim. Otherwise you are a liar.!
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My answer:
People of The Book meaning that people that received the scriptures
from Allah.Since you are one of them,then you are called People of The
Book.The reason why in the Holy Quran , the People of the Book is Jews
and Christians, it is because those two races are two of the latest
races received the scriptures from God.But for the verse above, it
applied to all races that received revelations from Allah:
"Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you:
That we worship none but God; that we associate no
partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and
patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness
that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will)"(Surah Al-Imran 3:64)

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So, you believe the above verse is from GOD? If so why did not GOD give instruction in their torah about Islam or Mohammed's coming? Something GOD forgot to relate to the Jews?
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My answer:
Yes, in Gita it stated that,but what you have said is EVERYTIME GOD
WANTS to remind the peoples he will re-incarnate.See the word
EVERYTIME.After the period of your Rishis, He also sent other
prophets,but He incarnated NOT.So, the word EVERYTIME is not suitable.

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It is not suitable for you because you are a Muslim while it is believed and accepted by us as Hindus.
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My answer:
Fate also will of Allah.Meaning that Allah has power determine anything
He wants.Fate is part of Allah's will. What the Muslims said is not
wrong.

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No, fate is based on your karma and GOD plays no part in it. Muslims put all the blame on Allah because it is the easiest way to escape the blame that would fall on them.
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My answer:
The founder of the Microsoft Word is a Jew,since he created the
software, so only he knows about that.Furthermore, this thing has been
distributed before the 11th September.No doubt the Jews has planning
this long time before.Bare in mind...Q33NY is the plane that crashed
the tower.And a section of the Jews know that.

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How do you know that he was a Jew? Did he tell you in person that he is a Jew? I think either he is an anti Jew [Muslim] or a traitor among the Jews.

[ Last edited by barney50 at 25-4-2007 01:52 PM ]

Png_Prince · Post time 25-4-2007 02:59 PM

Uncle Barney, before u say others stupid or idiot, can u see ur stupidity in front of ur own eyes here :-

http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=275572&extra=page%3D1

The verse quoted by my4life was 24:40 and you showed ur stupidity there by saying this

See how the above two same suras differ in interpretation. Infact the above posted by you have no relevency to the one below. Tell me what is happening in the Islamic world? Are they creating new Quran to accomadate the new centuries? Why are Muslim scholars on bluffology mode these days? It is very obvious the claim of any scientific miracles in the Quran had been debunked long time ago and using it here only makes Muslims look so desperate for confirmation of their religion.

Hello uncle, it was verse 24:40 la not 20:40. What a dumb u r.. yet wanna call others stupid and idiot, no wonder u r worshipping elephant and snake so got animal mentality. This example shows that u really dont read Quran before as u claimed. Ur stupidity exposed in front of ur own eyes

[ Last edited by Png_Prince at 25-4-2007 03:00 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 25-4-2007 05:15 PM

responded by Png_Prince:Hello uncle, it was verse 24:40 la not 20:40. What a dumb u r.. yet
wanna call others stupid and idiot, no wonder u r worshipping elephant
and snake so got animal mentality. This example shows that u really
dont read Quran before as u claimed. Ur stupidity exposed in front of
ur own eyes.

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Yes, it was my mistake and I do not deny it. But there is no miracle about it because the verse
sura24:40:Or [the state of a disbeliever] is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmedwith a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds,darkness, one above another, if a man stretches out his hand,he can hardly see it! And he for whom All鈎 has not appointed light, for him there is no light.
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is describing the state of disbelievers and nohing to do with scientif discovery of undersea. Comon sense would tell that the deep ocean is dark as no light would penetrate the deepth of the sea. But saying dark clouds in sea is no science. You don't find dark clouds but waves of strong current. I may have mis quoted the surah but not as stupid as yu to believe it to be the miracle of science. So, in the end its Muslims like you who would fall for such gimmics of the Quran.[color]

[ Last edited by barney50 at 25-4-2007 05:18 PM ]

Png_Prince · Post time 25-4-2007 05:22 PM

We didnt ask stupids like you to believe. You have done a mistake, and it shows the level of stupidity in urself. No wonder for snake and monkey worshipper like you.

barney50 · Post time 25-4-2007 08:48 PM

Reply #2834 pan_prince's post

We didnt ask stupids like you to believe.
You have done a mistake, and it shows the level of stupidity in urself.
No wonder for snake and monkey worshipper like you.

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Neither do we ask morons like to believe what we believe. Your prophet himself was not perfect and made grevious mistakes while mine is negligible. Snake and monkeys are creations of GOD and should be respected and to proof our respect for GOD we respect these creatures. What about you? Isn't a shame that a religion claiming to be the true religion of GOD has no respect for such animals?[color]

eastrun · Post time 25-4-2007 08:57 PM

1)
So, if he chooses an imperfect human to convey his message then the message to cannot be perfect. No wonder there are flaws in the Quran.

My answer:
The prophets are imperfect, but the message not.Because the message came from Allah, the ALMIGHTY GOD which is perfect.Furthermore, Allah has promised that He will guard the message:

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."(Surah Al-Hijr 15:9)

Do your scriptures have such promised?..
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2)
I said the Manu smirti has flaws and so is the talmud and hadith. These are written by man and not word of GOD.

My answer:
Unfortunately, it is different because Al-Quran and Hadith is not kept in ONE Book.Your Manu Smirti is kept in the scripture.So, when you have mixed all in one, how could you able to differentiate, which is written by human and which is not?.Sorry ya...the Manu Smirti and hadith is two different things
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3)
Did I claim so? But its Muslims who claim that the Quran is for all ages and if so then you should have what is to be dicovered centuries later. No such had been mentioned in teh Quran so it cannot be for all ages but inly suitable for the particular century it was produced.

My answer:
What for Quran prophesies such things?.It is not important at all. Because airplane, television, and etc has nothing to do with the religion and nothing to do with the mission.The Quran mostly prophesied what will be happened during the Judgement Day. Because what will be happened in today have been prophesied in the previous books, so the Quran, continue the prophecies in explaining more details what will happen in the Judgement Day.

"For every message is a limit of time, and soon shall ye know it."(Surah Al-An'aam 6:67)

But. the scientific findings in the Holy Quran shows that the book also suitable for the present period.Such as:

"By the Firmament which returns (in its round),"(Surah At-Thaariq 86:11)

-This explains the function of the atmosphere, which protect us from UV rays

"And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!"(Surah Al-Anbiya' 21:32)

-This explains that the heavens are protector for us such as fro, UV rays, small meteors and etc.

And many more...all for ONE MISSION..that is may we know that Allah created All this and He is the one who sent the scripture.
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4)
If they think then they would not be still following Hinduism, would they? If you come to think of it there are millions of Musims who carry the Musims name but do not practice Islam and these Muslims are known a rationalist. The only fear to declare their discontent is the arrest by the religious authorities to be brainwashed again with warning of death penalty. Otherwise millions of them woud be leaving Islam if given the chance.Wrong perception of Muslims. God of Islam is not GOD of Jews or Christians. It was Mohammed who claimed as such but rejected by Jews and Christians to this very day.

My answer:
See...who are you to judge people's faith?.How do you know that they wanted to leave the religion?.Or, you just make assumption for that?.Like I said before, maybe in front other people, those persons act like the most evil group of human ever.But nobody knows what they do behind that.I told you many time, don't judge the book by its cover.And...about Murtad, Muhammad never killed or asked the followers to kill the Murtad blindly.Furthermore, the Holy Quran never instructed to kill them BLINDLY, unless they insult the religion.

It is not a problem when they don't agree that Allah in Islam is as same as Allah in the Bible.As long as it refers to the ONE GOD, then initially the God is the same, the different is the WAY He worshiped and the way he called.But whatever it is, Christians do used Allah as the Almighty's name.
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5)
Hello! You think only you are reading the Quran and none others? We too read in order to know what is islam all about and to learn the errors created by it. Whatever I quote is refered from this source. http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

My answer:
Hello,
I said read the holy Quran FIRST before you refer to other sources.You are not reading the Quran.You cannot say when you read a verse, it means you read the whole scripture.I said...read the whole Quran.By that, you will know what Islam is all about.So, read the whole scripture 1st.
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6)
Your explanation is weightless. The why did Mohammed send a note to the neighbouring tribes to submit or fcae death? Why did the savage Muslims invaded Iraq, Persia, Iran and India? If not so ordered by your Allah do you think they would have invaded? Use your GOD given brain to think instead of using something else.

My answer:
What the Muslims did (if it is true) has nothing to do with Islamic teaching.I really don't understand you when you keep judging the religion based on the behavior of the followers.Islam is the religion of peace.Never taught the followers to kill people blindly.It applied to those who insulted the religion only.
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[ Last edited by eastrun at 25-4-2007 09:38 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 25-4-2007 09:34 PM

7)
No, that is what you implied. Well, if you say so then those who defend themsleves against Mohammed's troops are innocent victims but still killed by his troops. How would your Allah judge such murderers?

My answer:
Muhammad killed the enemies when Allah gave him permission to do so when the enemies were over the limit insulting and fighting the religion.It was done in the cause of Allah.

This permission is in the Quran.

Same like Moses, where he killed a Jews because the Jews didn't follow the Sabbath Day.He killed the people in the cause of Allah,because the followers has 'langgar' the law.Therfore it is acceptable killing.

The law above applied to those who are killing in purpose.They killed the people not because of the religion, but because of they want to kill.
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8)
So, what you are saying is this site[http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/] is  a fake? Are the verses a fake? Need your smart brain's valuation.

My answer:
Can be. . The websites that you can believe are www.jakim.gov.my,www.islamonline.net, www.quran.al-islam.com  ,websites created by Muslims and the teachings of the religion are in there.

But the best choice is, buy a copy of the Holy Quran and read it yourself.
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9)
That article is from the Saudi's site and it proves the point where as you calim is a utter lie.  In a Islamic country non Muslims must adhere to Islamic laws and would be tried for crimes according to syariah laws. You are misleading non Muslims to believe in your lies. You are a liar other wise show me your proof what the Saudi Government has legislated for non Muslims.

My answer:
I know the viewers are much cleverer.They know that the religion cannot be judged by the behavior of the followers.If the Saudi Arabia really do such thing,certainly it has nothing to do with the religion teaching because the religion said..."NO FORCE".I am not lying.Don't judge the book by its cover.
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10)
So, you believe the above verse is from GOD? If so why did not GOD give instruction in their torah about Islam or Mohammed's coming? Something GOD forgot to relate to the Jews?It is not suitable for you because you are a Muslim while it is believed and accepted by us as Hindus.No, fate is based on your karma and GOD plays no part in it. Muslims put all the blame on Allah because it is the easiest way to escape the blame that would fall on them.

My answer:
Yes the verse is from God.

About the prophecies on Muhammad in the Old Testament.You can see in Deutronomy 18.It reads...which God said to Moses:

"I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him" (Deutronomy 18:18)

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto mywords which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."(Deutronomy 18:19)

See the word their brethren.The brethren of the Jews of course the Arab.Because Abraham got two bloodlines.One he established with Sarah and the other one with Hagar.So, the Jews came from the bloodline with him and Sarah.Where as, Muhammad came from the bloodline with him and Hagar.So, the brethren of the Jews is the bloodline with him and Hagar.

See the word  and "I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him"

Proofs from Quran.See the word SAY...which Allah put His words in Muhammad's mouth and instructed him to say that in His name.

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH (GOD) MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;"
(Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1)
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11)
How do you know that he was a Jew? Did he tell you in person that he is a Jew? I think either he is an anti Jew [Muslim] or a traitor among the Jews.

My answer:
Anti-Jew, I don't think so.But if a traitor, I can agree so.Because not ALL JEWS are bad.

[ Last edited by  eastrun at 25-4-2007 09:45 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 25-4-2007 09:51 PM

Reply #286 eastrun's post

My answer:
The prophets are imperfect, but the message not.Because the message
came from Allah, the ALMIGHTY GOD which is perfect.Furthermore, Allah
has promised that He will guard the message:
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."(Surah Al-Hijr 15:9)
Do your scriptures have such promised?..

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How could Allah give his message to an imperfect man? Surely the imperfect man to mistranslate the perfect message. Until and unless Allah too impart imperfect messages. Guard in what way when many of the other texts were rejected by Uthman?

If it is really from GOD we do not need assurance. GOD need not tell the Sages that HIS messages are authentic and guarded by HIM. Until and unless it is not authentic then he msut make it like authentic and so must give an assurance. It is funny that Allah has to assure of its authenticity and assure that it would be guarded by him. It was not delivered in a tablet form but by mouth through Gabriel as told by Mohammed so how could it be guarded? Such ridicules assumption.
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My answer:
Unfortunately, it is different because Al-Quran and Hadith is not kept
in ONE Book.Your Manu Smirti is kept in the scripture.So, when you have
mixed all in one, how could you able to differentiate, which is written
by human and which is not?.Sorry ya...the Manu Smirti and hadith is two
different things

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It is not in one book like Quran or hadith. The Vedas are seperate while the smiritis are seperate. Like the Torah and talmud. Anyway the question is is the Quran in original form? With information of discovering Quranic texts found by archelogist at the Yemen dig it now remains a question if the Quran used by Muslims today is the authentic or not.
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My answer:
What for Quran prophesies such things?.It is not important at all.
Because airplane, television, and etc has nothing to do with the
religion and nothing to do with the mission.The Quran mostly prophesied
what will be happened during the Judgement Day. Because what will be
happened in today have been prophesied in the previous books, so the
Quran, continue the prophecies in explaining more details what will
happen in the Judgement Day.
"For every message is a limit of time, and soon shall ye know it."(Surah Al-An'aam 6:67)
But. the scientific findings in the Holy Quran shows that the book also suitable for the present period.Such as:
"By the Firmament which returns (in its round),"(Surah At-Thaariq 86:11)
-This explains the function of the atmosphere, which protect us from UV rays
"And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they
turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!"(Surah
Al-Anbiya' 21:32)
-This explains that the heavens are protector for us such as fro, UV rays, small meteors and etc.
And many more...all for ONE MISSION..that is may we know that Allah created All this and He is the one who sent the scripture.

Copy the Code

I do not want to go further and take space but just a simple question. Do Musims know that there is a hole in the Ozon layer? How could the heavens be protected by Allah when there is a hole in the Ozone layer?
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My answer:
See...who are you to judge people's faith?.How do you know that they
wanted to leave the religion?.Or, you just make assumption for
that?.Like I said before, maybe in front other people, those persons
act like the most evil group of human ever.But nobody knows what they
do behind that.I told you many time, don't judge the book by its
cover.And...about Murtad, Muhammad never killed or asked the followers
to kill the Murtad blindly.Furthermore, the Holy Quran never instructed
to kill them BLINDLY, unless they insult the religion.

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Killing an apostate is sanctioned in the Quran and you or any Muslim cannot deny it. That is the crucial question beingasked asked by non Muslims for ages when Muslims invaded the surrounding nations in Arabia? So who was Mohammed to judge the faith of the pagans? Get the point?

It is not a problem when they don't agree that Allah in Islam is as
same as Allah in the Bible.As long as it refers to the ONE GOD, then
initially the God is the same, the different is the WAY He worshiped
and the way he called.But whatever it is, Christians do used Allah as
the Almighty's name.

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Please ask the Christians here to confirm that. And also ask the Jews to confirm that. You or Muslims cannot confirm that because that is your word against theirs.
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My answer:
Hello,
I said read the holy Quran FIRST before you refer to other sources.You
are not reading the Quran.You cannot say when you read a verse, it
means you read the whole scripture.I said...read the whole Quran.By
that, you will know what Islam is all about.So, read the whole
scripture 1st.

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Makes no difference because the verses itself makes no sense so I guess the whole book would be as such. All I need is to refer whenever the Muslims claim sucn and such.
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My answer:
What the Muslims did (if it is true) has nothing to do with Islamic
teaching.I really don't understand you when you keep judging the
religion based on the behavior of the followers.Islam is the religion
of peace.Never taught the followers to kill people blindly.It applied
to those who insulted the religion only.

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So, the behaviour of your prophet did not reflect the message of Allah? Is that what you are saying? My GOD! I don't believe you can say that about your prophet.

barney50 · Post time 25-4-2007 10:13 PM

Reply #287 eastrun's post

My answer:
Muhammad killed the enemies when Allah gave him permission to do so
when the enemies were over the limit insulting and fighting the
religion.It was done in the cause of Allah.
This permission is in the Quran.
Same like Moses, where he killed a Jews because the Jews didn't
follow the Sabbath Day.He killed the people in the cause of
Allah,because the followers has 'langgar' the law.Therfore it is
acceptable killing.
The law above applied to those who are killing in purpose.They
killed the people not because of the religion, but because of they want
to kill.

Copy the Code

But that was not the case when he waged war against those who refuse to submit. First you say the Quran says no compulsion in Islam but here Mohammed demanded that the pagans forsake their religion and submit to Islam and failing which he waged war against them. Is it not contradicting?
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My answer:
Can be. . The websites that you can believe are www.jakim.gov.my,www.islamonline.net, www.quran.al-islam.com ,websites created by Muslims and the teachings of the religion are in there.
But the best choice is, buy a copy of the Holy Quran and read it yourself.

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WOW! So, the other websites from Muslims in America or Europe is al fake and only websites from Malay Muslim sites are authentic? May be even the Arabic website are fake too? You must be a jokerlah.
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My answer:
I know the viewers are much cleverer.They know that the religion
cannot be judged by the behavior of the followers.If the Saudi Arabia
really do such thing,certainly it has nothing to do with the religion
teaching because the religion said..."NO FORCE".I am not lying.Don't
judge the book by its cover.

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So, now the Arabs are liars. They do not know what the Quran says? Is that what you mean? Please do not make me laugh.....
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My answer:
Yes the verse is from God.
About the prophecies on Muhammad in the Old Testament.You can see in Deutronomy 18.It reads...which God said to Moses:
"I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him" (Deutronomy 18:18)
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto mywords which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."(Deutronomy 18:19)

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My dear fellow, this verse was not meant for Mohammed but Jesus Christ. Mohammed was conning the Arabs and Jews about this because he knew the Jews did not believe in Jesus ans so allowed the Romans to crucify him. You expect me to believe it too uh!?

See the word their brethren.The brethren of the Jews of course the
Arab.Because Abraham got two bloodlines.One he established with Sarah
and the other one with Hagar.So, the Jews came from the bloodline with
him and Sarah.Where as, Muhammad came from the bloodline with him and
Hagar.So, the brethren of the Jews is the bloodline with him and Hagar.
See the word and "I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him"
Proofs from Quran.See the word SAY...which Allah put His words in Muhammad's mouth and instructed him to say that in His name.
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH (GOD) MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL
"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;"
(Surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1)

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Fat chance. The Jews are no bretheren to the Arabs, not before not now. Abraham's bloodline ends with Sarah alone and Hagar who was Sarah's maid was cast away inot the desert. It was Mohammed who created the relationship becuase he need the help of Jews to confirm his prophethood but when he failed the Jews became his enemy number one.
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My answer:
Anti-Jew, I don't think so.But if a traitor, I can agree so.Because not ALL JEWS are bad.

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So, that word document was to create an amuzment among the net sufers. Not a scientific discovery.

Png_Prince · Post time 26-4-2007 09:37 AM

Originally posted by barney50 at 25-4-2007 08:48 PM
Reply #2834 pan_prince's post

We didnt ask stupids like you to believe.
You have done a mistake, and it shows the level of stupidity in urself.
No wonder for snake and monkey worshipper lik ...

Same answer for you. We dont need morons like you to believe what we believe. U made the mistake u dont even care to apologise for ur mistake. Still talk BIG. Monkey and Snake still animals, its not wor worshipping. Shut ur up mouth u moron!!!
Your stupidity exposed in front of ur own eyes!!!

tickmeoff · Post time 26-4-2007 09:46 AM

everyone is capable of evil. I am too. it's human nature, nothing to do with religion. We only use religion as a rationalisation for doing evil things.

eastrun · Post time 26-4-2007 06:49 PM

1)
How could Allah give his message to an imperfect man? Surely the imperfect man to mistranslate the perfect message. Until and unless Allah too impart imperfect messages. Guard in what way when many of the other texts were rejected by Uthman?

If it is really from GOD we do not need assurance. GOD need not tell the Sages that HIS messages are authentic and guarded by HIM. Until and unless it is not authentic then he msut make it like authentic and so must give an assurance. It is funny that Allah has to assure of its authenticity and assure that it would be guarded by him. It was not delivered in a tablet form but by mouth through Gabriel as told by Mohammed so how could it be guarded? Such ridicules assumption.

My answer:
It is up to Him la.Like I said before.The prophets are human, therefore, Allah gave them reminder to prevent them from commit wrongdoings.The reminder is immediate.Such as:

"It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah.s": on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly.Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?"
(Surah Al-Imran 3:79~80)

The prophets were not translating the verses that given by ALLAH, but they recite the verses that given by Allah, with guidance from Allah.Allah said to Muhammad:

"And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him"
(Surah Al-Kahfi 18:27)

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all."(Surah Al-An'aam 6:115)

And until now...you failed to proof to me that Quran has been distorted.The Quran is perfect until now.So, the promised has been fulfilled.

"It is) the promise of Allah. Never does Allah depart from His promise: but most men understand not."(Surah Ar-Rum 30:6)
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2)
It is not in one book like Quran or hadith. The Vedas are seperate while the smiritis are seperate. Like the Torah and talmud. Anyway the question is is the Quran in original form? With information of discovering Quranic texts found by archelogist at the Yemen dig it now remains a question if the Quran used by Muslims today is the authentic or not.

My answer:
Yes..it is in its orginal form.If Quran has been distorted, God must sent another prophet to re-correct the distorted parts.But nobody came after Muhammad, therefore no doubt that the book is its original form and the final scripture.
And like I said before, even the book is fragile in hard copy, but it stays preserved in the chest of the Thafizs..which memorize each words of the scripture.Allah has made them to guard the Quran from distortion, by His permission
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3)
I do not want to go further and take space but just a simple question. Do Musims know that there is a hole in the Ozon layer? How could the heavens be protected by Allah when there is a hole in the Ozone layer?

My answer:
Yes...but the layer does give protection to human such as UV rays, small meteors, or make the meteors move slower before they reach the earth, so the impact will become lesser.Isn't that protection by the atmosphere?.

http://www.ozonelayer.noaa.gov/science/basics.htm

The hole existed because of human.So, don't blame the layer.If the human suffer it is because:

"Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned, that ((Allah)) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil)."(Surah Ar-Rum 30:41)
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4)
Killing an apostate is sanctioned in the Quran and you or any Muslim cannot deny it. That is the crucial question beingasked asked by non Muslims for ages when Muslims invaded the surrounding nations in Arabia? So who was Mohammed to judge the faith of the pagans? Get the point?

My answer:
No!.Quran not instructed that to be done BLINDLY.The instruction being effective when the murtad over the limit.Muhammad never judged the faith of the Pagans.Allah does:

"Ah! ye are those who love them, but they love you not,- though ye believe in the whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say, "We believe": But when they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say: "Perish in you rage; Allah knoweth well all the secrets of the heart."(Surah Al-Imran 3:119)

Allah told Muhammad, so Muhammad acted according to what Allah has told him.
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5)
Please ask the Christians here to confirm that. And also ask the Jews to confirm that. You or Muslims cannot confirm that because that is your word against theirs.

My answer:
You should ask them why they put word Allah in the Holy Bible, since you raised this issue.But for me, name of the God, doesn't make any different because the same God is worshiped. I really wonder when you are really worry when the Muslim called the God as ALLAH.
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eastrun · Post time 26-4-2007 07:10 PM

6)
Makes no difference because the verses itself makes no sense so I guess the whole book would be as such. All I need is to refer whenever the Muslims claim sucn and such.So, the behaviour of your prophet did not reflect the message of Allah? Is that what you are saying? My GOD! I don't believe you can say that about your prophet

My answer:
You just have to read.Even you don't believe it, you have to read in order to know what Islam has taught.I didn't asked you to embrace Islam after reading Holy Quran.Th reason here you don't really know what is Islam.So read the book and go to www.islamonline.net

The true behavior of Muhammad is stated in the Holy Quran and he did all Allah said to him.I didn't say about the behavior of the prophet, but I SAID THE BEHAVIOR OF THE FOLLOWERS.You are twisting my words.My goodness..this is what happened when you are not reading the Holy Quran.
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7)
But that was not the case when he waged war against those who refuse to submit. First you say the Quran says no compulsion in Islam but here Mohammed demanded that the pagans forsake their religion and submit to Islam and failing which he waged war against them. Is it not contradicting?WOW! So, the other websites from Muslims in America or Europe is al fake and only websites from Malay Muslim sites are authentic? May be even the Arabic website are fake too? You must be a jokerlah.

My answer:
How many times do I have to tell you that Allah abrogate the verses according to the situation?

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:106)

No compulsion in Islam, but when the Pagans acted over the limit, the Muslims reacted in order to protect the religion.The Pagans are demanded, but they are not forced.For those who rejected the demand and respect the religion, will be free, but for those who rejected the demand and insulting the religion, that section we have to fight.

Just open the www.islamonline.net

The website is not Malay website.And the website can give you better understanding about Islam.The website is active and your question will be answered by the scholars which can give better explanation
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8)
So, now the Arabs are liars. They do not know what the Quran says? Is that what you mean? Please do not make me laugh.....

My answer:
See what TICKMEOFF has said in her post below.He got my answer.See thread number 291.
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9)
My dear fellow, this verse was not meant for Mohammed but Jesus Christ. Mohammed was conning the Arabs and Jews about this because he knew the Jews did not believe in Jesus ans so allowed the Romans to crucify him. You expect me to believe it too uh!? at chance. The Jews are no bretheren to the Arabs, not before not now. Abraham's bloodline ends with Sarah alone and Hagar who was Sarah's maid was cast away inot the desert. It was Mohammed who created the relationship becuase he need the help of Jews to confirm his prophethood but when he failed the Jews became his enemy number one.

My answer:
Read the verse more.It says that the prophet will die forever.But Jesus is believed that he is alive till the JUdgement day by the Christians.No doubt it is for Muhammad.Because Allah said to Muhammad, that Muhammad will die:

"Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception."(Surah Al-Imran 3:185)

Even Hagar is his maid, but Ismail is his son.So, the bloodline of Abraham started there.So, they Ismail bloodline is the brethren of the Jews and Muhammad is in the bloodline.

ms_pearl · Post time 7-6-2007 08:16 PM

i don't wanna hear those craps that said evil that blinded muslims.. i never think i'm blind enough to see what's the truth and my parents had given me enough knowledge about islam and when i've grown up,when i am skeptical about islam,i asked about islamic teachings to people who are way too knowledgeable than me about islam and i get the answers.. Alhamdulilah.

barney50 · Post time 8-6-2007 02:02 PM

ms_pearl,

You do not want to hear? But why? Does it hurt when truth is told baout Islam? May be you need to study what has been writen in the Quran and hadith over and over again in order to realize the truth about your religion. Then tell me if make sense.

The evil that had blinded Muslims

Allah after all is a pagan GOD whodesires in the spoils of war of mere mortals and to proof my pointplease read this surah [The Spoils of War) The Eighth Surah of theQur'aan.

1. They ask you (O Muhammad )about the spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for All鈎 and theMessenger." So fear All鈎 and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey All鈎 and His Messenger (Muhammad ), if you are believers.

GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point.

12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. Iwill cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, sostrike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers andtoes."

13. This is because they defied and disobeyed All鈎 and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys All鈎 and His Messenger, then verily, All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

14. This is the torment, so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.

GOD who is ever loving and merciful even to sinners had been portraied as a tyrant and ruthless GOD by Muslims. The Quran has contradiction and this is one of the verse to proof my point. Why would Allah want them to listen to him when he had already given the freewill to man. Is man not free to make his choice?

23. Had All鈎 known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen, and even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away, averse (to the truth).

If this is ordained to good and bad people then why pray to Allah? Now this is where the law of KARMA takes effect. You may be good in this life but because of your past life's evil action you pay the price with sufferings such as sickness, lost of loved ones through tragedy, lostof earnings and many such that one needed to experience.

25. And fear the Fitnah (afflictionand trial, etc.) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may afflict all the good and the bad people),and know that All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

Did Allah mean to say the atheist do not know what is right and wrong nor the non Muslims are all doing the wrong thing in life? Are all non Muslims killing innocent people and robbing them of their lively hood? I wonder if these are truely word of GOD!

29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear All鈎, He will grant you Furq鈔 a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong), or (Makhraj, i.e.making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and All鈎 is the Owner of the Great Bounty.

Yes, those sucide bombers had obeyed Allah and his messanger Mohammed. As such they must have known killing innocent people is the right way? So, did they get forgiven for their sins by kiling innocent people? Funny way for Mulims to honor their Allah.

[ Last edited by barney50 at 9-6-2007 06:00 AM ]

mnm77 · Post time 8-6-2007 06:36 PM

Poor you barney50, you did not even understand the verse correctly. I twill take many pages to explain the meaning of that verses.

Have you ever studied Tafseer In Katheer, with proper teacher to understand fully the meaning of that verses? I bet not. That's why you just take the translation and even from the translation you've gone wrong.

Poor. But since you will always said that you are right in the undersatnding of those verses, no point to explain to you. It will be just as explaning something to who would not prepare to listen and understand.

Poor.

eastrun · Post time 10-6-2007 11:41 AM

Unfortunately, I have answered these in the first page of this thread..I really wonder why Barney still want to repeat same issues....obviously he is 'kering' with ideas to blame Islam.....Pity him...

sixret · Post time 10-6-2007 01:07 PM

have you read ALL the verses in Quran,their translation and tafsir and hadith.

I did not believe this person really want to find the whole truth based on evidence about Islam.he just wanted to bash islam incessantly. i think there are no point to explain the correct interpretation of each verses as he would prefer to make his eyes blind than to make his heart opens.

many other forumners have given you all the explanations for each of your questions but clearly it seems to me you create this topic not to learn the right explanation of each verses but to let people know your opinion based on whatever sources you dig though all your opinions are totally incorrect.sorry guy,you have interpreted it wrongly.

by the way, i am asking myself whether i want create a topic :" Hindu is not a religion but a fairy-tale

ne God has too many different stories to make the complete sense and full of myth.

nah,i dont want to create a senseless sensation.moreover i dont want tring to hurt others by posting the topic that MAYBE I do not have a complete understanding thoug I've learned ever so many about Hindu and the first choice of religions I can safely say big no.the more I learned,the more I believed I was reading books about fairy-tale.
no wonder Gautama Buddha felt hugely unsatisfied with it.

p/s: i repeatedly asking myself, there are too many topic created here to condemn Islam intentionally.

barney50 · Post time 10-6-2007 03:36 PM

sixret,

That is your opinion and I have nothng to say about it. But many questions asked but someof you fail to give a logical answer. If I come here to bash Isalm I would be using all knid of words to condemn but I merely point out the flaws and deception in Islam. To you Islam is the only religion you have been groomed and trained to believe without question but do not expect us to do the same. We have been trainded to ask question and rationalize all scrptures. As far as I can see Islam only cotains violence and hatred. It comands the followers to hate Jews and pagans. It calls for force conversion and rob the pagans of their properities. Hadiths are full of such nonsense and Muslims accept such carps as word of GOD. Say what you want but I do not see Hinduism, Buddhism or Christianity creating chaos in the present world.

Look around you, do you see Hindu terrorism in any other countries or for that matter Buddhist or Christian terrorist blowing up trains, busses, market place and even the mosque? These are all doing of Muslim terrorist in the name of Islam and Allah. They think by doing so would get them a ticket to paradise. They call it fighting for the cause of Allah. If that you call GOD, then I do not have respect or fear for such GOD dudd.

loona · Post time 10-6-2007 04:59 PM

Originally posted by barney50 at 10-6-2007 03:36 PM
sixret,

That is your opinion and I have nothng to say about it. But many questions asked but someof you fail to give a logical answer. If I come here to bash Isalm I would be using all knid of ...

Your obeservation is very sharp and your statement is valid. Your are good, I have no reason not to agree with you...
I dont want to follow their understanding and teaching of islam, I dont want to submit to the God they submit if God ask to kill and bomb innocent people.
I believe almost majority of muslims also wont follow the order if God ask to kill innocent people on the train, on the street, in the market..etc.