Instant Death to Apostates in the Bible's Old and New Testaments

Mgsrulz

everyone keeps b!tching about Islam not allowing apostates to live,must be killed,bla bla bla...
and that the bible preaches "religious freedom"

question:
True or False?

In the Old Testament:

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Paul:

Let us look at Romans 1:20-32 (from the New Testament) "20.   For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21.  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22.  Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23.  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24.  Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25.  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26.  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.  Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28.  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29.  They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30.  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31.  they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32.  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Also psychics must be put to death.  Let us look at Leviticus 20:27 "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.  They should pelt them to death with stones.  Their own blood is upon them."

what happened to the "love"? :lol

link

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.


2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Written by my dad.

....

        Religion is not a matter of taste like fashion, sport, music or food. Religion is from our our hearts and not from a sword pointed at our necks. Everbody must be allowed to freely adopt any religion of his or her choice and to change to another religion or even renounce religion altogether if he or she so desires.

        Before I became a Muslim I had 4 previous religions. I was born into a Chinese family and my parents practiced a mixture of Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism. During primary school I went to a Christian school and I accepted Christianity. However during secondary school I was an atheist. Then in Lower Six I found Theravada Buddhism.

         A lot of friends and family members assume that I later became Muslim because I married my Malay wife who was Muslim.To tell the truth I wanted to convert my wife into a Theravada Buddhist and marry her in another country
which allows mixed marriages of different religions.

              So I told her she should read Buddhist scriptures and on my part, to be fair, I will read the Quran. Well the Quran was a document which I have never encountered before in my life and it moved my heart. I was convinced that no man could have written it. For the first time in my life I fell in love with a Book and that was how I came to believe in One God, the creator
of the Universe.

          The description of the inhabitants of Hell and Heaven, the Law of Karma, how our deeds would be weighted as found in Buddhist scriptures are also found in the Quran. Thus it was very easy to be a Muslim. No Buddhist monk nor lay
teacher came to my doorstep to threaten me with the death penalty.

         The world religions of Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism as they stand today do not kill apostates. If they were to do so, then tell me how will I be a Muslim today? I would have been killed by pastors, priests and monks way before I even have a chance to discover the beautiful religion of Islam.

            Recently I went to a seminar about Islam and Human Rights held in a hotel in Petaling Jaya. I expressed the opinion from the floor that there is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. I explained from the stories found in the Quran that only evil people use force especially when they are unable to
reason and use logic. The moderator was kind enough to allow me to speak at length as I was the only Chinese present that day. In fact I was invited to attend another seminar on apostasy!

           I argued from the floor that Quran 10:99 was a very powerful verse that points in the direction of total freedom. Quote:

"And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers?"


         It will be easy for God to make everyone a believer yet God did not make it so because He has given mankind Freewill. It is clear from this verse that God does not want us to use force when it comes to religion as religion is from our hearts.

             During lunch break I continued discussion with several students. I asked whether they had read finish the Quran in a language that they understand.


            The answer was No. Have they read the Hadiths? Again the answer was No. What is the punishment for apostates? They reluctantly said "Death Penalty". So I asked them how they can arrive at such a conclusion without checking the facts themselves. I told them that there are many scholars of Islam who are of the minority view that there is no punishment for apostasy. I told them that there are many Muslims like myself who are in total disagreement with using force and that the Death Penalty for apostates cannot be from God who is All Merciful and All Compassionate.

         I told the students that my Malay wife recently became a Muslim after she went for the Hajj with me. Imagine their shock! In the absence of  distractions like the internet, phone, TV, newspapers and work she managed to finish reading the Quran in English. Then she read the Quran in Malay and
during the stay at Mecca, she must have read the Quran at least three times.


       I consider my wife became a Muslim after understanding the message from God as contained in the Quran. Prior to that she was just like the students repeating from what she heard from others or from what she was taught. Never from what she had read and understood herself.

               Muslims have to verify things themselves and not take things for  for granted. Take my brother-in-law for an example. Many years ago certain scholars have written in the media that there are 6,666 verses in the Quran and he is in agreement with what was written. I challenged my brother-in-law and it only took less than 10 minutes sitting down with a calculator and a
Quran to find that it was not so.

           I would like to seriously suggest to Muslims and non-Muslims alike to read and understand for themselves the beautiful message in the Quran before
forming a premature viewpoint as to what the punishment for apostasy is. On my part I have done my own research and I am of the viewpoint that there is no punishment for apostasy in Islam.

           For any organization that disagrees with me, kindly allow me to speak in any public forum that you so wish to organize. Speaking from the floor and taking more than 5 minutes would be deemed rude and not polite. Half an hour
would be fine and thank you in advance.

         Kindly let me share a story found in the Quran. The Quran reveals that when Pharaoh's sorcerers lost in their encounter with Prophet Moses, the sorcerers fell down prostrate and submitted to the Lord of the Worlds.
Observe what Pharaoh said:

       Said Pharaoh: "Believe you in Him before I give you permission? Surely this is a trick which ye have planned in the city to drive out its people: but soon shall ye know (the consequences). "Be sure I will cut off your hands
and your feet on opposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the cross." (Quran 7:123-124)

       When the sorcerers were on Pharaoh's side, they were not molested. The sorcerers' magic was no match against God's signs as delivered by Moses. Thus the sorcerers repented and submitted to God and became believers. When
they did that in front of Pharaoh, they became victims of terrible
aggression from a revengeful Pharaoh.

         To kill the apostate would mean playing the role of God. How are we to know if by circumstances and for some reasons an apostate decides to become a believer again many years down the road if we have already killed him?
Surely, all world religions are in agreement that life is sacred.

       How am I am going to "dakwah" to the Chinese people what Islam is if I were to tell them that if they decided to become Muslim there is no turning back. That I have to kill them if they become apostates? This Death Penalty for
apostasy as promulgated by certain parties is a great disservice to Islam. There will be less people willing to accept Islam as their religion as it would be seen as an evil religion.

           God has given mankind the faculty of conscience, thought and reason and all Malaysians must not fear to speak out their minds and to give their opinions even if it is against certain scholars or politicians or people in power. We should only fear God.

Originally posted by bubba at 24-9-2006 11:48 PM
The description of the inhabitants of Hell and Heaven, the Law of Karma, how our deeds would be weighted as found in Buddhist scriptures are also found in the Quran.

The Law of Karma is found in the Quran? Interesting. How come Muslims here kept denying Karma?

it depends on which karma you're talking about. If it is about reincarnation: you do bad,e.g. you reincarnate as animals.Thats not in islam. My dad was refering to a general concept of cause and effect, "how our deeds would be weighted".

There's another verse on apostate:
18:29 Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers
We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!

10:99 If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

sLapshock

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While it may be insufficient, I am limited by time constrains, so it'll have to do.

Be warned that, by attempting to answer these questions it is necessarily to work from within the Christian worldview. How else to understand these violent acts, if not from this side of the fence? Therefore, if after saying all I will on this subject, you simply say "Bah, we all know the Bible is false and etc etc...", then I would know I have wasted my time explaining.

All Scriptures NIV.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deut 13:6-9
If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.
Firstly, the book of Deuteronomy is basically a corporate contract between God and Man, in that it lays out all the "rules", what we call the Law.

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In that sense, God is telling Israel, this are the rules, live by them and I will bless you, if not I will judge you.

Specifically to Deut 13, God is warning against Idolatory, and the worshipping of other false gods. In the context of the group-mind culture of that time period, one must recognise that such deviations as individuals deciding to worship other gods can have a huge impact upon the social structure of the region. Therefore it is necessary to protect the people from those who would worship false gods.

In any case, God pronouncing judgement is hardly news, as far as the OT is concerned. There is no contradictions, merely discomfort of people who feel that violence is incompatable with a Holy God. But in fact it is; If you obey God, you'll be fine. If not, you'll be judge. Sounds like a Just God to me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deut 17:2-7
If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
On Deut 17: First I note that you have not quoted the whole passage that is relevant, only the part which suited your purpose. This is either bad quoting, or intention to cheat the audience. I hope you are not merely asking these questions for fun, or for the sake of "exposing" Christianity.

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Again, we see here preemptive judgement against Israel, again on the topic of worshipping other gods. This time we see several conditions, which you have decided to leave out in your quote:

1. The offense must be investigated.

2. There must be testimony of the crime by at least 2 or 3 witnesses.

3. No one is to be touched on the testimony of only 1 witness.

4. The witnesses who accuse are responsible for the stoning.

The above that mentions the social context remains valid, so there's really nothing much more to add.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Chron 15:10-15
They assembled at Jerusalem in the third month of the fifteenth year of Asa's reign. At that time they sacrificed to the LORD seven hundred head of cattle and seven thousand sheep and goats from the plunder they had brought back. They entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul. All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. They took an oath to the LORD with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns. All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side.
Again, quoted out of context by you. The judgement here is specific for that particular instance, not universal as implied by what you quoted.


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On Romans: Instead of highlighting what you did (in red), you should highlight the part before it, i.e., "Although they know God's righteous decree....". There you have it. They knowingly did what they knew was forbiddened, and what they knew was punishable by death. I don't exactly understand your objection with this?

On Leviticus: Again a corporate contract. Witches and mediums claim other sources of power apart from God, therefore is as dangerous as those who worship other gods, and the same reasoning applies.

Quote:
What happened to the "LOVE"? ....
Your concept of "love" is not the same as the Biblical concept of "love".

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In both the NT and the OT, "love" is not so much as an emotional expression as it is a practical understanding between 2 parties to look out for each others' interest. God's love operates on a patron-client relationship. By pronouncing judgement on those who would do destructive acts like worshipping other gods, God is in fact protecting the rest.

You may like to stick to your own understanding of "love" and try to apply it to the ancient times, and then say "That's not love!", and then conclude that God is, in fact, not loving. That is, of course your right. But just because you are entitled to do so does not make it good exegesis.

so what? are the christians killing their apostates today? or even a 100 years ago? muslims are killing their apostates today!!!

Originally posted by ALFLOSS at 25-9-2006 12:57 PM
so what? are the christians killing their apostates today? or even a 100 years ago? muslims are killing their apostates today!!!

Is that mean u dont care what is written in OT and NT ? You dont do what your GOD command u to do ?

13Friday

Dear Bubba,
I don't have the time to read such a long piece because nobody cares.
But I care as the Lord Jesus cares, and since you have spoken I want to show you another way.

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
national religion and the ways done (bias) at great public expense is considered a compulsion, as the freedom of religions is self defeated- dominant religion Islam is compulsion gradually and surely

5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.


2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
what kind of reward is this? What kind of promise?  Would they be with Jesus's promise?
Written by my dad.

....

Religion is not a matter of taste like fashion, sport, music or food. Religion is from our our hearts and not from a sword pointed at our necks. Everbody must be allowed to freely adopt any religion of his or her choice and to change to another religion or even renounce religion altogether if he or she so desires.
your testimony shows otherwise as you changed several times, and what say you - deceptions as other Muslims do.  So what do you say about Lina Joy?

Before I became a Muslim I had 4 previous religions. I was born into a Chinese family and my parents practiced a mixture of Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism. During primary school I went to a Christian school and I accepted Christianity. However during secondary school I was an atheist. Then in Lower Six I found Theravada Buddhism.
Did you read the Bible in a Christian school?

A lot of friends and family members assume that I later became Muslim because I married my Malay wife who was Muslim.To tell the truth I wanted to convert my wife into a Theravada Buddhist and marry her in another country
which allows mixed marriages of different religions.
why then you instead converted to Islam? You wavered a lot.

So I told her she should read Buddhist scriptures and on my part, to be fair, I will read the Quran. Well the Quran was a document which I have never encountered before in my life and it moved my heart. I was convinced that no man could have written it. For the first time in my life I fell in love with a Book and that was how I came to believe in One God, the creator
of the Universe.
You read the English version of Koran always denied by Islamists.  It was a hot topic (corrupted version) in CARI since 2002

The description of the inhabitants of Hell and Heaven, the Law of Karma, how our deeds would be weighted as found in Buddhist scriptures are also found in the Quran. Thus it was very easy to be a Muslim. No Buddhist monk nor lay
teacher came to my doorstep to threaten me with the death penalty.
Law of Karma is there in Koran because Mohammed copied from all other existing religious books then.  I had posted that in CARI, and will do again if you miss that

The world religions of Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism as they stand today do not kill apostates. If they were to do so, then tell me how will I be a Muslim today? I would have been killed by pastors, priests and monks way before I even have a chance to discover the beautiful religion of Islam.
Do you understand how the true God in Christ operate?  God wants our heart and our spirit originally from the Creator God.
Recently I went to a seminar about Islam and Human Rights held in a hotel in Petaling Jaya. I expressed the opinion from the floor that there is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. I explained from the stories found in the Quran that only evil people use force especially when they are unable to
reason and use logic. The moderator was kind enough to allow me to speak at length as I was the only Chinese present that day. In fact I was invited to attend another seminar on apostasy!

You think you can get that kind of treatment if you to to a place dominated by Muslims? I was in a university where I was hacked and the moderators did not stop that.


I argued from the floor that Quran 10:99 was a very powerful verse that points in the direction of total freedom. Quote:
"And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers?"

This is a deception from the true Islam.

It will be easy for God to make everyone a believer yet God did not make it so because He has given mankind Freewill. It is clear from this verse that God does not want us to use force when it comes to religion as religion is from our hearts.
true in part as far as Islam is concerned but still a deception.  Even the simple thing like zakat is bias and abused in all ways

During lunch break I continued discussion with several students. I asked whether they had read finish the Quran in a language that they understand.
that is the root of all problems as there are so many diverse cults within Islam

The answer was No. Have they read the Hadiths? Again the answer was No. What is the punishment for apostates? They reluctantly said "Death Penalty". So I asked them how they can arrive at such a conclusion without checking the facts themselves. I told them that there are many scholars of Islam who are of the minority view that there is no punishment for apostasy. I told them that there are many Muslims like myself who are in total disagreement with using force and that the Death Penalty for apostates cannot be from God who is All Merciful and All Compassionate.
minority views are not accepted by Muslims as dominance force is the in-thing.  In Sabah the Muslims small minority in 1963 is now a majority by illegal means


I told the students that my Malay wife recently became a Muslim after she went for the Hajj with me. Imagine their shock! In the absence of distractions like the internet, phone, TV, newspapers and work she managed to finish reading the Quran in English. Then she read the Quran in Malay and
during the stay at Mecca, she must have read the Quran at least three times.
Malay=Muslim (check the Fed Con), and you are under another deception, and so don't deceive us any more. Muslim converts always do that like Keenkid in CARI.   Even the use of 'BIN' can deceive the ummah of Islam.


I consider my wife became a Muslim after understanding the message from God as contained in the Quran. Prior to that she was just like the students repeating from what she heard from others or from what she was taught. Never from what she had read and understood herself.
you are equally confused like all Muslims.  You are only a show man. You know we brought down the DG of the Islamic knowledge dakwah Institute in KL when he came to Sabah in a religions dialogue forum.  He was Caucasian and converted on marriage

Muslims have to verify things themselves and not take things for for granted. Take my brother-in-law for an example. Many years ago certain scholars have written in the media that there are 6,666 verses in the Quran and he is in agreement with what was written. I challenged my brother-in-law and it only took less than 10 minutes sitting down with a calculator and a
Quran to find that it was not so.
You did not tell us how many verses in Koran

I would like to seriously suggest to Muslims and non-Muslims alike to read and understand for themselves the beautiful message in the Quran before
forming a premature viewpoint as to what the punishment for apostasy is. On my part I have done my own research and I am of the viewpoint that there is no punishment for apostasy in Islam.
Don't deceive us to read the Koran as we need to digest the Bible to be a mature Christian

to be continued ....

13Friday

For any organization that disagrees with me, kindly allow me to speak in any public forum that you so wish to organize. Speaking from the floor and taking more than 5 minutes would be deemed rude and not polite. Half an hour
would be fine and thank you in advance.
You will have plenty to talk to people but your version would be rejected in reality

Kindly let me share a story found in the Quran. The Quran reveals that when Pharaoh's sorcerers lost in their encounter with Prophet Moses, the sorcerers fell down prostrate and submitted to the Lord of the Worlds.
Observe what Pharaoh said:
Said Pharaoh: "Believe you in Him before I give you permission? Surely this is a trick which ye have planned in the city to drive out its people: but soon shall ye know (the consequences). "Be sure I will cut off your hands
and your feet on opposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the cross." (Quran 7:123-124)

When the sorcerers were on Pharaoh's side, they were not molested. The sorcerers' magic was no match against God's signs as delivered by Moses. Thus the sorcerers repented and submitted to God and became believers. When
they did that in front of Pharaoh, they became victims of terrible
aggression from a revengeful Pharaoh.
tell me the moral of this story.  Why revengeful Pharaoh?

To kill the apostate would mean playing the role of God. How are we to know if by circumstances and for some reasons an apostate decides to become a believer again many years down the road if we have already killed him?
Surely, all world religions are in agreement that life is sacred.

Islamists are the holiest of all as they shout so much- to fight for Allah

How am I am going to "dakwah" to the Chinese people what Islam is if I were to tell them that if they decided to become Muslim there is no turning back. That I have to kill them if they become apostates? This Death Penalty for
apostasy as promulgated by certain parties is a great disservice to Islam. There will be less people willing to accept Islam as their religion as it would be seen as an evil religion.

One earth and one God and definitely not the Allah of Islam

God has given mankind the faculty of conscience, thought and reason and all Malaysians must not fear to speak out their minds and to give their opinions even if it is against certain scholars or politicians or people in power. We should only fear God.

what do you do to stay in shape?  they will go after you and your family for outspokenness.  Islam operate best in deception but now with the Internet it is exposed as fake

In a nutshell, you are still immature person even as a Muslim.

13Friday

please share my views.

barney50

[code] responded by SilentKiller:Is that mean u dont care what is written in OT and NT ? You dont do what your GOD command u to do ?{/code]

Muslims Always have and excuse that OT has it but do not realize that Christians or Jews do not call for fatwa to kill apostates of Christianity nor Judaism. But the simple truth is that Muslim Mullas call for fatwa to kill apostates of Islam. Mersiless morons who think they are GOD. In fact the truth is that Mohammed assimilated the OT and applied the laws of Talmud inot Islam that is all. No Gabriel or Allah [the so called Islamic GOD] had ever spoken or given any message. It is a  scam and the Arabs fell for it. Period.

Mgsrulz

Originally posted by barney50 at 25-9-2006 08:45 PM

Muslims Always have and excuse that OT has it but do not realize that Christians or Jews do not call for fatwa to kill apostates of Christianity nor Judaism.

isnt it weird that the HOLY BOOK says it must be done,yet the followers dont do it? ;)
whats the use of a holy book,then if you dont follow it? :lol
might as well not have one

Originally posted by barney50 at 25-9-2006 08:45 PM

But the simple truth is that Muslim Mullas call for fatwa to kill apostates of Islam. Mersiless morons who think they are GOD. In fact the truth is that Mohammed assimilated the OT and applied the laws of Talmud inot Islam that is all. No Gabriel or Allah [the so called Islamic GOD] had ever spoken or given any message. It is a  scam and the Arabs fell for it. Period.

i missed this in the other thread,but anyway...ask you again
how could he tiru something,whilst he was an illiterate.
NOT ONLY that,but the Quran has SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE way AHEAD of it's time (i can show you the verses of relativity of time,if you'd like-it's in the Quran.

this is amazing stuff,coming from an illiterate ;)

iit's obvious that the Quran came from someone greater than the Prophet

13Friday

that is the Koran after some people translated all religion books for Mphammad into Arabic.

i212

that is the Koran after some people translated all religion books for Mphammad into Arabic.
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kahkahakhakahkhakhkahahkah....... Pointless

i212

In fact the truth is that Mohammed assimilated the OT and applied the laws of Talmud inot Islam that is all. No Gabriel or Allah [the so called Islamic GOD] had ever spoken or given any message
----------------------
Hmmm........

Originally posted by barney50 at 25-9-2006 08:45 PM
responded by SilentKiller:Is that mean u dont care what is written in OT and NT ? You dont do what your GOD command u to do ?{/code]

Muslims Always have and excuse that OT has it but do not rea ...

In every reply u give here, u r proving how ignorant and DUMB you are!

SquiZZ

Originally posted by Mgsrulz at 26-9-2006 07:16 AM

isnt it weird that the HOLY BOOK says it must be done,yet the followers dont do it? ;)
whats the use of a holy book,then if you dont follow it? :lol
might as well not have one

The followers are also taught this "You who are without sin cast the first stone." So if you feel like cracking open a woman's head with stones just because she murtad or commit adultery be my guess.

LostSoul

13friday, please read carefully. the testimony was written by his dad, not bubba. so, please sharpen your comprehension skill before making nonsensical remarks.

bubba, thank you for sharing your dad's testimony. it makes me realize that many of us, even myself, took Islam as it is without trying to learn more. thank you.

13Friday

Originally posted by LostSoul at 26-9-2006 11:16 AM
13friday, please read carefully. the testimony was written by his dad, not bubba. so, please sharpen your comprehension skill before making nonsensical remarks.

bubba, thank you for sharing your ...

this is how muslims operate in proxies.



deception.

is bubba a Muslim too?

LostSoul

yeah yeah yeah... whenever ppl said something true about islam, you said deception. but whatever you said is deemed to be the truth. duhhhh

you better ask bubba. with a father like his, i'm sure he'll know the true path for himself. no need you to coax him.. :bgrin: