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True Christians should reject the New Testament
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Gentlemen, bombarding me with questions will not make me answer any faster.
Posting controversial 'specialists' will only deviate from the main argument.
So give me time to answer all of you as each question you pose is a topic in itself.
Just to answer the question on the apocrypha. Those books are called Apocrypha for a reason. It was consensus on old and new scholars alike (a majority of them of course, not all) that the Apocrypha works were written much later than the accepted works compiled as the Bible - somewhere between 800 to 1200 years, so were excluded from the works that make up the Bible.
As sometimes Apocrypha were included in 'complete' scholarly Bibles, they do carry footnotes on their decided origins and are never the chapters used in Christian Service - except for minor christian sects. |
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nightlord posted on 27-7-2013 08:13 PM 
Gentlemen, bombarding me with questions will not make me answer any faster.
Posting controversial ...
Bible secara dasarnya mempunyai 66 buku atau bab, 39 terkandung di dalam Kitab Perjanjian Lama dan 27 di dalam Kitab Perjanjian Baru. Satu di antara kontroversi yang timbul dan masih hangat diperkatakan hinggalah ke hari ini ialah tentang 7 buku tambahan yang terdapat di dalam Kitab Perjanjian Lama yang dikenali sebagai Apocrypha.
Golongan Kristian Protestan tidak mengiktiraf Apocrypha ini sebagai Kalam Tuhan, berbeza dengan golongan Kristian Katolik yang berpegang bahawa Apocrypha adalah Kalam Tuhan setanding dengan buku-buku Bible yang lain.
Pandangan golongan Katolik ini agak selari dengan pendirian pemimpin-pemimpin dan tokoh-tokoh Kristian di peringkat awal, kerana sejarah menunjukkan, mereka telah mengiktiraf Apocrypha ini sebagai Kalam Tuhan dan pendirian ini telah mereka sebutkan paling kurang sebanyak 352 kali di dalam penulisan-penulisan mereka sebelum ini…….. Satu lagi golongan yang penting di dalam dunia Kristian ialah golongan Kristian Ortodoks. Bible mereka berbeza dengan Bible golongan Katolik dan Protestan.
Bagi mereka buku-buku Bible berjumlah 76 kesemuanya, 49 terdapat di dalam Kitab Perjanjian Lama dan 27 di dalam Kitab Perjanjian Baru. Justeru, kitab yang manakah yang perlu diiktiraf sebagai Bible? Adakah Bible mengandungi 66 buku di samping 7 buku Apocrypha seperti yang dipegangi oleh Roman Katolik? Atau 66 buku di samping 10 buku Apocrypha seperti yang dipegangi oleh Kristian Ortodoks? Atau 66 buku sahaja tanpa Apocrypha seperti yang dipegangi oleh golongan Protestan?
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Very deep topic....i am lost... |
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nightlord posted on 27-7-2013 08:13 PM
Gentlemen, bombarding me with questions will not make me answer any faster.
Posting controversial 'specialists' will only deviate from the main argument.
So give me time to answer all of you as each question you pose is a topic in itself.
Just to answer the question on the apocrypha. Those books are called Apocrypha for a reason. It was consensus on old and new scholars alike (a majority of them of course, not all) that the Apocrypha works were written much later than the accepted works compiled as the Bible - somewhere between 800 to 1200 years, so were excluded from the works that make up the Bible.
As sometimes Apocrypha were included in 'complete' scholarly Bibles, they do carry footnote
I am surprised to see this explanation. So far , the earliest complete bible in existence is the Codex Sinaiticus dated to be about the second half of the 4th century.
The books of the aprocrypha plus Barnabas and Shepherd of Hermas of the NT are in the said Codex.
The said books in the Codex Sinaiticus contradicts your argument that these books were added somewhere between CE8 and CE12.
Back to the issue of this thread. Still waiting for your explanation of the justification that the NT is an inspired text. If claimed yes , that means Christians have placed themselves above your supposed God in biblical Jesus. Why , you may ask? You hold it mandantory to believe in the NT being scripture and the word of the Christian God whereas such was never mandated by biblical Jesus (he didn't even know of the NT) , his disciples nor those after them.
You argued that the OT and NT are textual testaments of biblical moses , biblical Jesus etc. This might not be true. Biblical Moses received the commandments and also revelation from God similar to biblical David and the other prophets. However the mode of transmission at that time was oral. Another twist to the OT is that major part of it was rewritten or redacted by Ezra (the scribe). Therefore we can safely say that what was transmitted by them might not be what have been textually captured , ie. textual corruption as there is no proof of people memorizing the OT.
Last edited by sam1528 on 28-7-2013 11:43 AM
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nightlord posted on 27-7-2013 08:13 PM
Gentlemen, bombarding me with questions will not make me answer any faster.
Posting controversial ...
If that is the case, then you are confirming what Muslims are claiming (or particulary what Muhammad has claimed) - that the Bible have been corrupted by hands of Man and that Jesus was made into a God, which was a blasphemy.
How can you claim that the Bible is Holy or Words of God when you yourself confirm that parts of its contents comes from Apocrypha which was written between 800 to 1200 years AFTER alleged birth of Jesus?
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I think the topic of this thread should be changed to " True muslims should reject the Quran !"
Masab Yousef, son of West Bank Hamas leader Sheik Hassan Yousef, Ali Sina, Sam Solomon, Wafa Sultan and many more have made the right move...... |
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wkk5159 posted on 1-8-2013 04:29 PM
I think the topic of this thread should be changed to " True muslims should reject the Quran !"
Masab Yousef, son of West Bank Hamas leader Sheik Hassan Yousef, Ali Sina, Sam Solomon, Wafa Sultan and many more have made the right move......
Ha ha , there you go. You guys ever wondered why Christianity in decline and Islam in the rise?
It is because christian theology is indefensible. I repeat my critique :
Still waiting for your explanation of the justification that the NT is an inspired text. If claimed yes , that means Christians have placed themselves above your supposed God in biblical Jesus. Why , you may ask? You hold it mandantory to believe in the NT being scripture and the word of the Christian God whereas such was never mandated by biblical Jesus (he didn't even know of the NT) , his disciples nor those after them.
Have a look at the answer by our resident racist christian bigot 'wkk5159' ..... at times he is a free thinker.
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Ha ha , there you go. You guys ever wondered why Christianity in decline and Islam in the rise?
It is because christian theology is indefensible........
Kakaka....Go, go ahead with your schizopherenic delusion my conscience devoided ustazy...... BTW, it is famous ex-muslim cleric Sam Soloman who said that Islam cannot defend itself on its own merit, that's why it needs to resort to constantly prevent others from discussing and criticising Islam with violent threat, punishment and even death. No other religion in 21st century has the tendency for violent except Islam !
http://formermuslimsunited.org/category/sam-solomon/
http://nocompulsion.com/former-m ... he-danger-of-islam/
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wkk5159 posted on 2-8-2013 08:52 AM
Ha ha , there you go. You guys ever wondered why Christianity in decline and Islam in the rise?
It is because christian theology is indefensible........
Kakaka....Go, go ahead with your schizopherenic delusion my conscience devoided ustazy...... BTW, it is famous ex-muslim cleric Sam Soloman who said that Islam cannot defend itself on its own merit, that's why it needs to resort to constantly prevent others from discussing and criticising Islam with violent threat, punishment and even death. No other religion in 21st century has the tendency for violent except Islam !
http://formermuslimsunited.org/category/sam-solomon/
http://nocompulsion.com/former-m ... he-danger-of-islam/
Ha ha , told you guys , Christian theology is indefensible. I repeat my critique :
Still waiting for your explanation of the justification that the NT is an inspired text. If claimed yes , that means Christians have placed themselves above your supposed God in biblical Jesus. Why , you may ask? You hold it mandantory to believe in the NT being scripture and the word of the Christian God whereas such was never mandated by biblical Jesus (he didn't even know of the NT) , his disciples nor those after them.
Have a look at your response (as above). Embarrassing and disappointing to say the least. Ha ha , Sam Solomon again? I thought we've gone thru this before (more than 5 times). I asked you for his credentials but nothing so far. You are just citing a a bullshitter. Can you provide Sam Solomon's credentials? The answer is no. Pssst .... are you currently a christian or free thinker?
I have no respect for people like Sam Solomon or the unknown entity 'Ali Sina'. Talking alone on the podium or writing anonymously is just a sign of intelectual cowardice. These people do not dare to debate. They will get their butts kicked like what I am doing to you.
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sam1528 posted on 2-8-2013 11:07 AM
Ha ha , told you guys , Christian theology is indefensible. I repeat my critique :
Have a look ...
Errancies 
Muhammad’s Flat Earth According to the Quran, Earth is flat. Can the maker of the earth be ignorant about its shape?
Crucifixion in the Quran All four Gospels say that Jesus was crucified. The story of his crucifixion is given in detail in Mark 15. 21-41; Matt. 27.32-44; Luke 23. 26-43 and John 19. 17-27, Despite this the Quran says Jesus was not crucified. Instead,…
Islamic Cosmos The Quran and the Hadith contain references to creation of the world and physical realities that are nothing short of scientific heresies. Despite the efforts of many Muslim apologists who have tried to reinterpret them and find in them some…
Masjid-ul-Aqsa: Muhammad’s Error There is a hadith that reports Muhammad one night, rode on a winged horse that took him from Masjidu’l Haram (the temple of Ka’ba) to Msjidu’l Aqsa (in Jerusalem) and from there to the seventh heaven where he was shown…
Who Taught Allah Math?
Samaritans and Moses or Muhammad’s Blunder? The Quran contains many errors. The following reveals one of them. In the Bible (Exodus 32) there is a story about Israelites worshiping a calf when Moses went to Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments from God. On his…
Predestination and Free Will in Islam Does God choose to guide people or do we have free will? One of the most disconcerting concepts in Quran is predetermination (jabr). According to Islam, to believe in Allah is the sole purpose of a human’s life. “I did…
Seven Layers of Heaven Harun Yahya, had published the following article on his site. After I clarified his error, he removed it. However, there are still other Islamic sites that show this article. The Layers of the Atmosphere One fact about the universe revealed…
Jinns and Shooting Stars Like his Bedouin contemporaries, Muhammad believed in shadowy beings and ghosts. These mythical creatures were known as Jinn. Muhammad spoke extensively about jinns. He told his followers that jinns were made of fire. They stand on each other’s shoulders all…
Last edited by Truth.8 on 2-8-2013 11:21 AM
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Truth.8 posted on 2-8-2013 11:19 AM
Errancies ...
Ha ha , is that all? These issues have been refuted ages ago
(1) Refutation to the so called 'flat earth' - refuting flat earth
(2) Crucifixion in bible - Ok then produce the biblical verse that states biblical actually died on the cross. Being crucified means dying on the cross. I am sure you can do it. A challenge for you
(3) Islamic Cosmos
- Of course water is formed first before the earth. The Big Bang is an explosion with fission and fusion. H20 is fusion between Hydrogen and Oxygen.
Now, a team of physicists says the Big Bang should be modeled as a phase change: the moment when an amorphous, formless universe analogous to liquid water cooled and suddenly crystallized to form four-dimensional space-time, analogous to ice.
- Of course the sun has its own orbit contrary to what Ali Sina says :
Astronomers have calculated that it takes the Sun 226 million years to completely orbit around the center of the Milky Way. In other words, that last time that the Sun was in its current position in space around the Milky Way, dinosaurs ruled the Earth. in fact, this Sun orbit has only happened 20.4 times since the Sun itself formed 4.6 billion years ago.
(4) Masjid Ul Aqsa - This is so easy
(5) Who taught Allah maths? - Ha ha , so simple
You forgot or most likely don't know to share up. Example -
The wife gets (1/8), mother (1/6), father (1/6 + remainder if any), 3 daughters (2/3)
This translates into 24 shares, hence:
wife (3 shares), mother (4 shares), father (4 shares), 3 daughters (16 shares)
However, the shares add up to 27 which is called عَوْل, thus simply share them out using 27 shares:
wife (3/27 = 1/9), mother (4/27), father (4/27), 3 daughters (16/27).
Overall:
(3/27) + (4/27) + (4/27) + (16/27) = 1
(6) Samaritians or Moses or Allah blunder? - Yawn , another simple one
(7) Predestination and free will in Islam - Christianity do not have predestination and free will? If you don't believe in it you are not christian
(8) Seven Layers of 'heaven' -
1. Troposphere 2. Stratosphere 3. Ozonosphere 4. Mesosphere 5. Thermosphere 6. Ionosphere 7. Exosphere.
(9) Jinns and shooting stars - Err in the Quran it mentions 'shihab' meaning fire. Shooting star or meteorite in arabic is 'nyazak'. Where is the mention of shooting star (or meteorite) in the Quran? Trying to bluff huh?
No problems in defending the so called Islamic issues. Your turn to defend my critique of you having faith in the NT. Can you do it? Ha ha , you can't , can you. It is true , christian theology is indefensible.
Last edited by sam1528 on 2-8-2013 12:34 PM
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sam1528 posted on 2-8-2013 12:19 PM
Ha ha , is that all? These issues have been refuted ages ago
(1) Refutation to the so called 'f ...
is your own assumption...thanks for your showing us stupdility
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Truth.8 posted on 2-8-2013 12:53 PM
is your own assumption...thanks for your showing us stupdility
Ha ha , my assumptions?
What are the links for? Do you know the definition of assumptions? Get an education .... for your own good ...
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sam1528 posted on 2-8-2013 01:00 PM
Ha ha , my assumptions?
What are the links for? Do you know the definition of assumptions? Get ...
peoples make fool and call it education but it is assumption
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Truth.8 posted on 3-8-2013 11:54 AM
peoples make fool and call it education but it is assumption
Ha ha , what are you trying to convey? fool ----> education ----> assumption
Can you be a bit more coherent in your post?
Why are you straying from the issue? I made a critique to the NT as follows :
Still waiting for your explanation of the justification that the NT is an inspired text. If claimed yes , that means Christians have placed themselves above your supposed God in biblical Jesus. Why , you may ask? You hold it mandantory to believe in the NT being scripture and the word of the Christian God whereas such was never mandated by biblical Jesus (he didn't even know of the NT) , his disciples nor those after them.
How come you are not responding but trying your best to divert the issue? If I know any better , I think you have no answers. That explains you in trying to divert the issue. Yes?
Last edited by sam1528 on 3-8-2013 12:38 PM
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sam1528 posted on 3-8-2013 12:37 PM
Ha ha , what are you trying to convey? fool ----> education ----> assumption
Can you be a bit m ...
go and firgure out ...
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Truth.8 posted on 3-8-2013 01:54 PM
go and firgure out ...
wei macha..if u wanna refute someone's comment/statement, go & provide at least a prove or maybe some factual evidence to support your side larr..
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Truth.8 posted on 3-8-2013 01:54 PM
go and firgure out ...
Translation : I (truth.8) don't know what I am talking about
I repeat my critique of the NT :
Still waiting for your explanation of the justification that the NT is an inspired text. If claimed yes , that means Christians have placed themselves above your supposed God in biblical Jesus. Why , you may ask? You hold it mandantory to believe in the NT being scripture and the word of the Christian God whereas such was never mandated by biblical Jesus (he didn't even know of the NT) , his disciples nor those after them.
You have no reply. Yes? Well apart from your efforts to change topics aka shifting the goalposts
Am I right to say that christian theology is indefensible? Ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 3-8-2013 10:52 PM
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Post time 27-7-2013 08:13 PM
Author
