MAN vs NATURE

mbhcsf

i just wondering the need to use the word "versus" instead of complimenting?
why has there  been such a strong clashes between Man and Nature if we already have the answer. Why do even we, as man need to even  go against the /defying nature.
Men could adapt or compensate but never defying nature as "nature"  can be viewed as

1) the natural forces - the natural disasters - we could predict  and be prepared but do we as men ever succeeded in preventing them from happening ? well no.
2) the underlying principles
3) the blue print of things


but could we change the "nature" of things?

like if a Caucasian gal born with Cystic fibrosis and this  condition basically denotes death will be of the main outcome later in the second  decade of life, then by undergoing certain medical therapy like gene therapy could be of the main alternative to get it cured? (Really cured 100% cured unsure) could we be defined as defying the nature ? hmm...the success rate still remain obscure though.Th medical complication well not too mentioned still persists. so this is not entirely true that we , man could 100% change the nature of things.

the same arguments goes for language learning, Chomsky had came out with the idea that language learning is innate and there is a so called  "device" in the brain that caters for this language learning ability. Well, if we  could see children with special needs then ypu'd actually say that he is right. Most of them are basically non - verbal or having delayed language  or even had acquired a "deviant" development of language and speech. The "device" termed as LAD has given us,  human,  the ability to generate, interpret and used language in many ways they we could possibly think of. So, it 's back to the nature again as the "blueprint" the prerequisite  for this learning ability to occur.

However, as human is able to learn and adapt that is why we are termed as the special being, we basically try to compensate the disability by enhancing other "pathways" that could fascilitate language learning in those special population but then again the capacity, ability will always dicate by the "nature".


In genetics for example; say our DNA is said to be the blue print of all human, in there lies all the good, the bad and the ugly nature of  a person , then should a baby born with genetic defects or inborn errors of anything be better off prevented from taking their first breath in the face of this earth...well this is what happened in eugenic groups...not too long ago, a century ago i would think? becoz people will argue that if it is already predetermined then , what' s the point?

So to us normal beings, what and why would we be offended by such an arrogant statement >? There must be somthing that Nature wanted to tells us about this people special 'disability" that we as normal person could learn...

so how about a mommy undergoes prenatal testing of Down Syndrome baby at the first trimester circa 8-10 weeks like that, and being told that either  of these two things = baby normal OR baby carrying the geneti defects...and termination of pregnancy being offered ( in certain countries)..will this be considered as the act of "against" the nature??

how about Dolly the sheep? the first cloned of mammal organism...but  then again it was later found that Dolly basically undrwent Premature aging as the genetic composition in the  tissues  was termed as ubstable and already aged - why>> becoz dolly was "created" out of normal / somatic cell's DNA that has been inserted into an ovum ( the DNA of the ovum is discarded actually) and this  source of DNA was already "aged" and thus giving  alot of problem to the Created dolly... see again Nature won...

but how about fertility treatment like ICSI, GIFT, etc ..  are we manipulating the NAture , adapsting, compensating  or complimenting the already available processes that occur naturally ( normally) for our benefits?

hmm... we are totally in a way still and will be depending on nature after all.

what is nature ? principles? God ? sunnatullah..i prefer GOD.

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 19-2-2008 04:04 PM ]

mbhcsf

are those proponents of humanisme  could be viewed as the type of thinkers who think Nature does not play a role at all? any take on this?siapa ambil philosophy boleh citer ker? anyone?

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 19-2-2008 03:58 PM ]

wei_loon5063

my hand versus me... who win?

human is part of nature... who win? we need nature... nature can go on without human

Agul

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 19-2-2008 06:12 PM
my hand versus me... who win?

human is part of nature... who win? we need nature... nature can go on without human

exactly.

mbhcsf

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 19-2-2008 06:12 PM
my hand versus me... who win?

human is part of nature... who win? we need nature... nature can go on without human

From a veiwpoint of an engineer yes this human anatomy could be viewd as having  "robotic" attributes lah jugak kan?
but this example basically presumes that  well a human is a pretty healthy one. Okay. However when dealing with biological entity as the HAND and BRAIN ( Body) you need to be sure that the motor components in the brain i.e the tracts, neurones , basal ganglia are all  well functioning coz IF NOT

the HAND sometimes could win. Hmmmm...? In which situation...

in HUNTINGTON'S CHOREA and PARKINSON or CEREBELLAR DISEASE...mostly involuntary movements will predominates.

wei_loon5063

yes....

we are all belong to each other actually.. we eat, #, drink, pee and in the end our body change property... a we age... so, there is no in or out.. there is no absolute human or absolute nature.. how to fight? how can a stream of river fight each other?

mbhcsf

Wei Loon - how about the naturally occurring phenomena such as the mixture of the  freshwater ( off the river) and the salt water - seawater  (buffer/ interface) at the delta / mouth of any big
rivers /like  the everglades in Flourida..would they fight  each other i mean with different density and all...at  the interface/ buffer zone or rather they assimilate with one another at a certain concentration gradient????



air sungai di muara / kuala sungai  yg airnya tawar adakah akan melawan air laut yg masih di Kuala sungai  atau pun akan just  mix bila tiba pada kepekatan gradient tertentu....?
the equlibrium that  the "NATURE" trying to establish??

wei_loon5063

what is your definition of fight? does turbulance a war between fluid?

mbhcsf

well based on ur post , how do you define "fight" in that context? ...like go against each other ker ???
???turbulence ? hmm a war between fluid..i dunno ...could be, though as opposed to laminar flow ( i based this on haemodynamic = blood flow in the body = yeah there are two types = laminar and turbulence usually occurs at the bifurcation of the arteries and at the vessel wall whereas the laminar flow usually confined at the centre of the blood vessel.)

Wei Loon, may I ask you something, why in fluid dynamic a flutter is considered as very interesting? lagi satuthey have studies on the behaviour of a feather that falls into a fluid and tey would want to see the prsenece of a flutter = why? thank you...

my-alja

ermm....ada org kata, tuhan letak manusia cuma 5 minit drp keseluruhan waktu kewujudan muka bumi nie....

55 minit lagi, semuanya drp zaman ais, dinasour...sampailah ke kita, manusia...

apa bezanya adalah manusia nie berakal....lihat kesan akal pd muka bumi tuhan nie....menakutkan

SONofODIN

Nature can exist without man.
Man cannot exist without nature.
I guess nature is the winner.

Justsha

Nature. Kiamat berlaku semua musnah.