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Secularism, freedom and democracy just can't coexist with Islam.
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In Islam the words "righteousness" and "virtue" do not mean the same as defined in dictionaries. They mean belief in Allah and obedience to his prophet. Unlike other religions, Islam is not a religion of individual salvation but of the state domination. Secularism in Islamic countries does not work. Turkey became a secular country in 1912 but now the fundamentalists are fighting hard to regain the power and convert that country once again into an Islamic state. Reza shah in Iran imposed secularism and tried to modernize that country. 50 years later the fundamentalists came back with revenge and reversed the cloak 1400 years. Muhammad Ali Jinah aspired a secular Pakistan but that country is now caught in the claws of the fundamentalists digging deeper and deeper in ignorance.
Back to Malaysia, lately UMNO and PAS are competing with each other to champion the gradual rule of syariah law in this dooming country.
Islam cannot survive without power. Unlike the rest of civilized world, the separation of the state and religion in Islam does not work. If Islamic countries desire secularism, freedom and democracy, they have to get rid of Islam altogether. They have to decide between democracy and Islam. Just as you cannot house the sheep and the wolves in the same fold, you cannot have democracy and Islam in the same country.
Last edited by wkk5159 on 28-10-2014 10:35 AM
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by wkk5159
Unlike other religions, Islam is not a religion of individual salvation but of the state domination. Secularism in Islamic countries does not work. Turkey became a secular country in 1912 but now the fundamentalists are fighting hard to regain the power and convert that country once again into an Islamic state.
Correction - Islam is a political ideology. That is why Islam cannot co-exist with other political system.
Most common misconception humans have about Islam is that Islam is a religion. It is not. It is a political ideology in disguise of religion.
If you see most religion such as Hinduism and Buddhism, you could not find a status ladder which the followers must follow. Even in Christianity, that ladder collapsed after the People split the religion off the political stance and made religion self-sufficient (which means it has no power of authority over the People).
But in Islam, there are a hierarchy which the followers must follow. The normal people are the lowest in the status, Iman is the next in the level, controlling the masses, Mufti are the once control the Imans and finally the Religious council (in Malaysia, that should be JAIS) will control the Muftis. The top ranking religious people will have the same power as that of ministers and royalties and in some cases, actually enjoy authority powers over the common people.
In short, Islam is a political ideology similar to Plutocracy - where the top elites are untouchables, able to execute a large amount of political and judistrial powers while being deattached from the normal people. Everyone will look at them and strive to be like them, including blindly follow a religion in hope of being promoted toward a higher status in social order.
This is why Islam cannot work with Secularism when other religions (including Christianity) can work side-by-side with Secularism. |
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You are judging the wrong ISLAM.
Know REAL ISLAM, and you'll find it is the opposite.
Oh yes... it is too much task to do... just go to sleep again. |
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kid posted on 28-10-2014 01:50 PM 
You are judging the wrong ISLAM.
Know REAL ISLAM, and you'll find it is the opposite.
Then proves me wrong but i doubt you will be able to. You just can't defend something which is indefensible, proves are all around us. I've known muslims personally all my life, of all degree of devoutness and i concluded my synopsis base on facts, nothing but facts.
You are a typical example of Golden phrase; " Good muslims are bad people but bad muslims are good people. "
Ponder upon it.
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wkk5159 posted on 28-10-2014 02:10 PM
Then proves me wrong but i doubt you will be able to. You just can't defend something which is ind ...
Contrary to your statement, many of your so called 'facts' have been debunked in this forum based on real facts.
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wkk5159 posted on 28-10-2014 02:10 PM
Then proves me wrong but i doubt you will be able to. You just can't defend something which is ind ...
You made a statement that democracyand bla bla bla can't coexist with Islam (real Islam what I meant).
Then prove your point. The burden is yours, not my burden to disprove your statement.
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kid posted on 28-10-2014 08:33 PM
You made a statement that democracyand bla bla bla can't coexist with Islam (real Islam what I mea ...
Do i have to further prove my point here ? Are you living in the comtemporary age with assess to the unaltered informations ? Apparently you don't. You just basking in your own sentimental feel good feeling about Islam without sensible and unbiased research into the true face of Islam.
Unlike me, i was brought up without any religion indoctrination and that's why i can neutrally compare any religion without any preconception. Can you do that ? No, obviously you can't, you haven't even thoroughly investigate your own Islam, let alone any other religions and philosophies.
Your personal view on Islam may sound liberal in the eyes of some secularist but you will definitely be labelled a CULT in the eyes of majority of muslims, be it Sunni or Shia. Imprisonment and even death penalty awaiting you if full islamic syariah law rule the country you live in....
There are too many evidences that Islam can't coexist with democracy and freedom, below are just some facts for you to ponder upon;
1. Why father of Turkey reformation, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk had to hang some mullahs in order to carry out his reformation ? He abolished traditional islamic school, abolished Syariah law and uphold secular constitution, he discourage women wearing hijab and veil and many many more. He is lauded by modern society as a progressive muslim(bad muslim) but criticised by rest of Islamic world as anti-Islam and destroying Islam. http://www.allaboutturkey.com/reform.htm
2. Why all, i mean all most wanted terrorists by FBI are muslims ??? Don't tell me that they don't follow true Islamic teaching and that kind of craps again, can it be possibly logic that > 90% of muslims are wrong and only minority of muslim advocate peace and love(bet you can't find this terms in Quran and Hadith), if it truly so, then Islam is truly a failed religion in which it fail to curb terrorism among muslims and only a paltry number of muslims appreciate liberalism and freedom. http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists
3. Why Islamic countries contribute virtually nothing to modern science advancement ? From the car you drive to the airplane you fly in to the smartphone you use and to the very computer are looking at right now are all made by the brains and hands of non-muslims and kafir. Therefore, it is a undeniable fact that being a muslim will ultimately retard your cerebral capacity and potential.
The list goes on and on......
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mashimaru83 posted on 28-10-2014 07:49 PM
Contrary to your statement, many of your so called 'facts' have been debunked in this forum based ...
Get lose nippon wannabe, you have been debunked long long time ago.....
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wkk5159 posted on 29-10-2014 09:52 AM
Get lose nippon wannabe, you have been debunked long long time ago.....
You are entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day opinion is just an opinion. Try harder next time.
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mashimaru83 posted on 29-10-2014 10:28 AM
You are entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day opinion is just an opinion. Try harder ...
This forest gump is trying very hard....no doubt
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wkk5159 posted on 29-10-2014 10:33 AM
This forest gump is trying very hard....no doubt
Is 'name calling' the best you can do? I was expecting better than that from a professional like you. Again, try harder next time.
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Author |
Post time 29-10-2014 11:22 PM
From the mobile phone
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Debunk and harder are the only two terminologies a nippon wannabe muslim can master...:lol |
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wkk5159 posted on 29-10-2014 11:22 PM
Debunk and harder are the only two terminologies a nippon wannabe muslim can master...:lol
Is 'name calling' the best you can do? I was expecting better than that from a professional like you. Again, try harder next time.
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Author |
Post time 30-10-2014 09:22 AM
From the mobile phone
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Forest Gump is recycling his rancid reply.... |
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wkk5159 posted on 30-10-2014 09:22 AM
Forest Gump is recycling his rancid reply....
Well, someone is repeating name calling then...
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Author |
Post time 30-10-2014 09:59 AM
From the mobile phone
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Forest Gump is aping the non muslim now...:lol |
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Wkwk
Apparently you misjudged me.
I've came from traditional religious backgorund, but I studied all religion, even atheism.
I came to conclusion that traditional Islam based on the view which I no longer follow.
Maybe I have similarity like Kemal Ataturk, but there are many different views too.
Anyhow my fellow Muslim might think I went ashtray, and non-Muslim think I'm talking nonsense.
I want to follow the best, do the righteous, spread the good works, be peaceful, share the wealth the best I can, and to my knowledge this is real Islam, anybody will agree but problem is it is also most misunderstood even by Muslim themselves. |
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kid posted on 30-10-2014 09:44 PM
Wkwk
Apparently you misjudged me.
That's why i said you have been sentimental all this while about the religion of yours since birth and the version of Islam that you believe in is not Islam but general humanity. All intelligent ex-muslims have made the right choice of leaving this irrational vile religion, it's time to make the right move.
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In short I made a move leaving traditional Islam to the REAL Islam. I dont leave Islam by the way.
I invite you to learn the real Islam, if you wish. I can give some web links for you to see, but only if you want.
I'm not being pushy, nor I said I'm right, as I believe faith or personal and couldn't be pushed or dictated. If you dont agree then it is your right. This is Real Islam, "For you your religion, for me mine".
ALL people I knew who follow REAL Islam has been studied Islam by THEMSELVES, some were not born Muslim, some Muslim from birth, but NONE of them came to REAL ISLAM by just blind faith, they embraced Real Islam by using their critical thinking, rational judgment, they are the people who avoid following the crowd and just accept whatever fed to them. They are peaceful people.
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kid posted on 1-11-2014 11:30 AM
In short I made a move leaving traditional Islam to the REAL Islam. I dont leave Islam by the way.
...
Leaving the traditional Islam meaning that you have deviated from the true teaching of Islam. Subconciously you are deeply ashamed of Islam and you try to invent an alternative version of Islam which is not Islam at all. Eitherway, i'm liberal minded and you can pm me the link you mentioned but i've a feeling this could be just like the same link a cari forumer used to send me.
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Post time 28-10-2014 10:34 AM
变色卡
