Measure Of A Man

hamizao

Is there a  measure of a man (or woman)?

Is it the worldly things he possesse/collect, the companions he keep or those he keep for rainy days.......or the values he live by ............or the faith and trust others hold of him? Or is it ALL those things and many, many more?

What would be your measure?

seribulan

tringat pula play Shakespeare...Measure for Measure...baru diskas ari tu...

The Vulnerability and The Confidence...

Mansairaku

mansairaku:

... by the quality, and not quantity - of people who loved me as I am ..

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 6-11-2007 12:03 AM
  
Is there a  measure of a man (or woman)?

Is it the worldly things he possesse/collect, the companions he keep or those he keep for rainy days.......or the values he live by ............or the faith and trust others hold of him? Or is it ALL those things and many, many more?

What would be your measure?

I don't know if such a thing exist.

Worldly possession, companion, happy family, values, trust, faith and other thing is at the best is only outside validation.

Who's the judge? Who's the one doing the measuring? Should we take it, agree with the 'measurement' of certain person? Does爄t爉atter爄f even the whole country or 99% of the earth population have certain expectation?

It's always external validation, approval. People always seek approval from others. They need other people that their existence is of any value. Their self worth are always dictated by other person. They scream for love from others, if they can't get it, they force it.

Society爉ay爀xpect燾ertain爐hing燼nd爄f爕ou燼gree爓ith爐hem爐hen爄t爄s爐rue爁or爕ou.營f爕ou don't agree with these things, it is true for you too.

I don't know if I'm answering the question. Anyway, shoot.

hamizao

So, you're a teacher perhaps? Perhaps you wish to share some of the essence of the discussion?

hamizao

There may not be a right or a wrong answer here, Agul. I suppose you measure a person by your own standard(s) ....what matters to you most i.e. makes you most at ease would be sitting on top of the list.

I hope to open a discussion into how you would value a friend or foe .....just simply anyone.

I once had a friend (god bless her soul) who told me that what attached herself to me as compared to other perhaps more accomplished and successful friends (in their own way) is the fact I always maintain the confidentiality of what I know of her life. That is, she had never heard a pin drop which could have been caused by me alone.....unlike others.

Sure, this amounts to external validation . I think it is also important since we live in a community ..................not alone where there is nobody else to measure you. Otherwise you just live by your own desire never affected by or affecting anyone else.

However, because your own happiness ultimately depend on your own true feelings about yourself, you would tend to measure yourself too by the standard(s) you impose on yourself. Some people can be quite hard on themselves, some are more laidback. Some just let others underwrite them....................... . To me the latter just do not have a blueprint of their lives.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 7-11-2007 02:54 PM ]

my-alja

integrity of a man

SONofODIN

How we value a person is very subjective. It all depends on how we set up our standard of valuation.

seribulan

Not related, am afraid...was a general Shakespeare discussion here.

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 7-11-2007 02:52 PM
There may not be a right or a wrong answer here, Agul. I suppose you measure a person by your own standard(s) ....what matters to you most i.e. makes you most at ease would be sitting on top of t ...

All thing that we do, whether altruistic or selfish on the surface boils to one thing and one person only. Ourself/ourselves.

You do good thing, because 'you' want to feel good... But that's for another topic. When I have the time.
People do good thing or bad thing for their own reason. Not because of us.

I try to avoid being judgemental. Of course we constantly evaluate people. But nowadays I try not get worked up on people's action or lack of action. Sensitivity or insensitivity. It's not my job to evaluate other people, whether he'she is good, or bad.
It's just IS. It's not good, it's not bad. They are what they are. In essence what they do, what they say is not the real them.
It's not the flesh, it's the spirit.

saying that, I must admit that I have my criterion, but this is only for me. I would feel/think if it's good for me to be with him/her or if it's better for me to be with other people.Simple as that. I don't want to dwell on them.

Mansairaku

Originally posted by Agul at 7-11-2007 12:02 PM
.....It's always external validation, approval. People always seek approval from others. They need other people that their existence is of any value. Their self worth are always dictated by other person. They scream for love from others, if they can't get it, they force it.....

Beg to differ on the above points, mod Agul ...
Since it is impossible for us to measure ourselves, it only makes sense to do the benchmarking by external factors.  i.e. by accomplishments, by IQ/EQ, by attributes (integrity, mcm my-alja) etc ... What I understood from Hami's question, Hami was refering to the " different types of measuring-tapes " we use to measure, and was not questioning the actual magnitude of our self-worth?  The "measuring tape" is the same for myself and when measuring others - they might be plain, boring people, earning meagre wages for the rest of their lives, but if they've got some truly good men/women loving them for who they are ... then they score pretty high in my views ..

but different people have their own measuring tapes, haven't they?  
and I believe Hami was asking "what kind of measuring tape do you have?"  
(unless if me pun dah tersalah faham Hami's question?   )

[ Last edited by  Mansairaku at 8-11-2007 09:54 PM ]

hamizao

Carry on Mansairaku............

One thing , Agul ........... in life and work, we are always evaluating people. The proper  way to do that, I believe, is to base it strictly on observed and known factors. You become judgemental when you make conclusions based on unknown factors.

Shoot if you disagree with me!

You do good thing, because 'you' want to feel good...

I beg to differ ..............you should do things because you think it is the right thing to do.......OK another thread.

dutchy

what is the measure...it depends on the kind of benchmark that we set for ourselves..often we are critical of a person (s) when they do not conform to our way of thinking..ie..if they are not religious enough...not dressy enuff

it's mostly our crued perseption that defines what is the measure of a men/women

am still trying to figure out the measure of me as a woman in this 21st century   

dutchy

  Some just let others underwrite them....................... . To me the latter just do not have a blueprint of their lives.

Don't be to harsh in ur judgement on them Hami
some people hasn't found their true footing in lives..thus they are more then
willing to let others dictate their lives by others standard...

maybe in this way they are able to stimulate themselves or their stance on lives by replicating what they deem to be good...who to tell what is good or not eh?

ajinomotonosuga

one man's meat is another man's poison. so how to measure?

i think it is self validation or self evident.

if u failed to make any human happy, but u urself are happy, this is the beginning of a measurement of some kind i.e. emotional

but this person must understand the notion of 'failure' (read knowledgeable)

we live in a time constraint life affairs, so when would the measurement be? during living or after death?

Self is always right(reality), others merely mirror of it. So others are FEEDBACK, in bw is communication.

So self measurement is self examination, as what Socrates said, an unexamined life is an unworthiness life.

One must judge oneself, nobody else. Other people efforts merely 'leading' one to start probing or examining one's life.

Agul

Originally posted by Mansairaku at 7-11-2007 11:00 PM

Beg to differ on the above points, mod Agul ...
Since it is impossible for us to measure ourselves, it only makes sense to do the benchmarking by external factors.  i.e. by accomplishments, by IQ/EQ, by attributes (integrity, mcm my-alja) etc ... What I understood from Hami's question, Hami was refering to the " different types of measuring-tapes " we use to measure, and was not questioning the actual magnitude of our self-worth?  The "measuring tape" is the same for myself and when measuring others - they might be plain, boring people, earning meagre wages for the rest of their lives, but if they've got some truly good men/women loving them for who they are ... then they score pretty high in my views ..

but different people have their own measuring tapes, haven't they?
and I believe Hami was asking "what kind of measuring tape do you have?"
(unless if me pun dah tersalah faham Hami's question?   )

Mansairaku...

Maybe I am not really answering the question...

But first of all I want to clarify that at this moment, I am trying to avoid being judgemental toward others and even myself. This is kind of燾onfusing,燼nd營'm爏till爈earning,爌ractising燽ut營爓ill爇eep爋n燼nd爏ee爓hat燾ome爋f爄t.燤aybe until something more interesting comes along and it's more fun to play with that thing.

I爑sed爐o爐hink爐oo爉uch燼bout爌eoples爉otives,爐heir燼ction,爓hat爐hey爉ean,爅udging爐hem燽y爉y爋wn爏tandard,

Agul

We always evaluate, analyse thing and situations.

I am already talented enough in this evaluating others thingies. I don't have to practise.

So I went a different route, of suspending judgement, letting go of unnecessary judgement. Don't get me wrong, I don't treat all people the same. Some get better treatment, others just so and so...

Well, I can say, wow this guy/gal really act like  a jerk. I don't really like him/her. He/she may have his/her own reason. Fine. I don't have to hate, get worked up or think much about them. Let them be. Bless them.

I just don't evaluate more than necessary, which is quite hard, for such a talented and experinced judger of peoples...

It's like driving, you don't need to remind yourself to step on the clutch, look at the number on the gear stick?( what do we call that thing?), move it, disengage the clutch, etc2....

It's already automatic. You do it all unconciously.

Again, I say this is a selfish thing. It's not about them. My judgement on them is not really important. They may not even care about that. It's about me, and what I want to feel. It's a nice kind of selfish thing.

A level above normal selfishness and selfelessnes. Where selfishness and selflessness blends and become one and the same.

And I will start another thread on why we do things...

Agul

Others in our life reflect a facet of us that we have a problem to see.

Their action, reaction, what they do, what they say, really, really reflects our view on life.

And I really like to use too much commas...

hamizao

Perhaps it would be easier then to evaluate oneself first and then use the same yardstick on others........?? Not too sure whether we can do this though!

How have I done as measuring up to the values I have set, perhaps? This is without doubt an exploration or exercise in self-questing. To do this I shall have to delve and explore into the elements of character and personal values to measure myself as a woman, as a wife, as a mother , as a friend and so on............Generally , a lot would depend on my sense of right and wrong and personal values acquired throughout a lifetime .......most of which would have been acquired from my formative years through my parents and those close to me. For example, growing up with the voice of my dad, the disciplinarian; the voice of my mum, agent of last resort; my crazy brother who was always waiting to empty my piggy bank; no TV ; only the radio as the sole material distraction to obscure what really mattered most. Above all growing up being able to enjoy simple things as climb trees, play rounders, hop scotch, read Enid Blyton etc. So, looking back I do reckon that people may have different perception of right and wrong ....hence the fallibility in trying to put everyone in the same mould.

By Agul:

So I went a different route, of suspending judgement, letting go of unnecessary judgement..............

Agree, in fact all judgements are unnecessary....just as some hurt need not be forgiven.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 11-11-2007 03:29 PM ]

hamizao

Integrity ............... examples are like strength and firmness of character; honesty; or trustworthiness. Yup, I like that too and the level of integrity do vary between people.