Music.. for sale or not?

Muntz

OKLAH.. dah lama takder perbincangan pasal muzik kat sini. So, kat sini aku ader satu soalan, korang rasa adakah muzik itu sesuatu yg dibuat utk dijual, atau ia sepatutnya free?

Muntz

Bagi aku, ia sepatutnya for free... tapi tak dibenarkan utk re-distribute, and for profiteering purposes. Music should be available to all...

nuckletight

well for me if the music should be free then we just can listen to
ghazal or seniman jalanan..

its a fair and square situation..
they made noise.. then we pay lah dier punya electricity..
they need to eat also..
pay their Pimped merc..
buy gucci handbags..

music cant be free maa.. if it is free then what should they eat..
basically it shouldnt be free but we can make it free.. yeah..

nuckletight

even the audio in the games and application are protected with copyright..

mp3

kalo dah recording dlm bentuk cd/kaset tu
mmg harus jual la

even org yg basking kat CM tu pun,ade org kasi duit utk dorg

Muntz

Originally posted by nuckletight at 21-1-2007 08:59 PM
well for me if the music should be free then we just can listen to
ghazal or seniman jalanan..

its a fair and square situation..
they made noise.. then we pay lah dier punya electricity..
t ...

i think if they are sincere in making it, they won't charge for a single cent....

Muntz

Originally posted by mp3 at 22-1-2007 07:35 PM
kalo dah recording dlm bentuk cd/kaset tu
mmg harus jual la

even org yg basking kat CM tu pun,ade org kasi duit utk dorg

to me, donation is OK.... since that we want it for free.

nickelodeon

aku rase muzik perlu dijual.kalo nak bagi free, modal nak buat lagu,record ngan lain2 tu sape yg nak bayar?

redrumdoll

of coz la kene bayar..mane leh free beb.
doktor cek pesakit, pesakit bayar.
posmen anto surat, kerajaan bayar gune duit kita. kita bayar cukai.
cam2 gak la musician.
buat music kita dgr, kita bayar.

get the whole pic??
tak adil kalao x bayar. diorg juga manusia perlu makan dan kehidupan.

azmee

Muzik adalah Intellectual property, just like any tangible asset yg u ada..the owner of that IP has certain rights to them..  Setengah2 idea dalam muzik adalah berdasarkan 'accumulation' of knowledge, years of experience, dan sebagainya.. They have spent a lot of money to produce that creative work.

Ramai orang ingat, just because music is something you can't see, it should be free.. But people dont see all the sweat and hardship composers, and musicians put in to produce a song..they only hear the final product. Some people study at music colleges and spend huge amount money to gain knowledge about music so that they can write songs...just like you go to a accountancy school to do accounting and to practise doing accounting at work.. Creative work ada real tangible value.

redrumdoll

Originally posted by azmee at 6-2-2007 10:36 AM
Muzik adalah Intellectual property, just like any tangible asset yg u ada..the owner of that IP has certain rights to them..  Setengah2 idea dalam muzik adalah berdasarkan 'accumulation' of knowl ...

Presa1200

mayb we bring into a business demand dealing lah kan. ade permintaan maka ada pengusahaan. muzik pun sumber rezki utk org2 yg dlm bidang tersebut. lainlah jual badan tuh mmg haram lah.

sedondon

ingat senang ke buat lagu? recording lagi, sewa studio, barang2 muzik dan alat recording bukannya murah oo, nak upah musican lagik, mana boleh free?

Muntz

Originally posted by azmee at 6-2-2007 10:36 AM
Muzik adalah Intellectual property, just like any tangible asset yg u ada..the owner of that IP has certain rights to them..  Setengah2 idea dalam muzik adalah berdasarkan 'accumulation' of knowl ...

I think we are talking about two things... one being professional, which is, making music your career by selling albums... and two, being creative, which is, you don't need professional training or courses for you to create a music.

Most of us are familliar with the former, since that in our head, no matter what, music should be for sell and should be commercialized like any other products. To me, it's not like that. If you're sincere in making music and want to reach your listeners, you should make it available for free. However, if there's a demand for more music of yours, then you can sell it just like doing any other business which depends on demand and supply.

In our world today, music is oversupplied. Too many people are interested in making music and hoping for their music to be sold, commercialized and gained profit from it. This trend is kind of "disease" because we just want people to pay for what we want them to listen. Instead, we should ask them to pay if they want to listen. So these are two different things.... if you want people to taste your kuih, then let them taste it, but if they want more, they should pay for it. That's what we want. But now, these music tycoons are pushing the listeners to pay first for what they want to listen and give them only a glimpse or a pinch of song that they want to hear, at a very low unconsiderable bitrate. This is a very very bad practice. The way they're promoting the music can kill the music industry itself.

So that's what my point here... it's not about renting a recording studio, electricity bills and stuff. My actual point is the way the industry manipulate the music sales.

azmee

bro..i think you're missing the point.. the point is that there are many people who thinks that music should be free and consumers should not pay for music.. As for low bitrate, it's very subjective, the idea of listening to lower bit rate is to get a sample of what the music is like. If you understand the concept of this, i dont think you would be bothered with the quality of the bitrate.. (even 96 kbps is enough for a sample)... Your opinion that 'If you're sincere in making music and want to reach your listeners, you should make it available for free.' is quite disturbing.. because it shows that composers and musician's hardwork are not appreciated and people who write songs for a living will definitely find that statement disconcerting.. If you think music should be free, try telling other people from other creative industry like painters and writers the same thing about their work and you know what I mean

If you put up a high quality sample of the song for the whole duration of the song at a website, that kills the industry and it kills the purpose of selling the songs. Anyway if you want to pay only for the songs you like, there are local portals that allow that like http://www.bluehyppo.com/portal  

The fact that in some aspects of the music industry  that music is too commercialized is beside the point.. THere are many variables connected to this 'commercialism' and of course the recording labels are to blame.. But you must remember that typically a record label has to fork out at least RM50- RM70 grand just to produce an album and probably another RM50 grand for marketing.. would you blame them?

A novel written by a writer is no different from a song written by a compose a lyrics written by a lyrcists.. their work has value and they are IPs.. Also your point about 'being professional' and attending professional training courses.. please bear in mind that nobody is born to have the ability to produce music instantaneously.. Professional training doesnt neccesarily mean attending music schools and studying theory, it also means practical training and experience and years of hardwork..

Yes sometimes you dont need professional training to be successful commercially.. look at alfred hitchcock who drop out of college and who never studied filmmaking and who was regarded as one of the most creative directors who ever lived.. Directing a film is an art and not a science and it can be a very creative process.. Would you ask him to direct for free? of course not. In the music industry, of course there are a lot of people who didnt have professional training but who are writing songs commercially, but that does not mean they can  be precluded from earning a living from their creative skills.

One of the main factors that kills the music industry are people who think music is free and should download them free from the net.

[ Last edited by  azmee at 10-2-2007 08:29 PM ]

bergantung pada pendapat.

aku suka kalau kreativiti aku dijual.
contoh,kalau aku penat2 buat muzik,aku nak muzik aku dibeli orang sapa2 yang menghargainya.

kalau aku penulis,aku nak buku aku dijual sekurang2nya berbaloi la aku menulis,
instead dapatkan kepuasan aku juga boleh jana modal.

kalau aku beri ceramah and talks,
aku nak duit untuk kepakaran yang aku sumbangkan..
(yang mana aku dapat kepakaran tu dengan menggunakan duit)

lagipun sekrang bukan mcam zaman dulu,
nak berak pun kena ada duit.
penghasilan kreativiti zaman sekarang makin rumit,
mambabitkan banyak pihak,bukan sorang je.
dan bila dah ada rantaian macam ni dlm production,
kurang2 mesti makan duit punya.

so,sale or not to sale,depends.
(kalau aku pilih not to sale,
maybe masa tu aku berniat nak kukuhkan resume aku je.
atau sebagai public test)

[ Last edited by  Mr.Forensics at 10-2-2007 10:28 PM ]

azmee

i agree la.. kreativie bukan sahaja melibatkan muzik tapi apa2 yg original yg datang dari idea kita sendiri.. Jikalau kita membuat pilihan untuk 'distribute' idea kita secara percuma.. itu pilihan kita.. tapi kalau kita membuat pilihan untuk menjual kreativiti kita, itu tidak bermakna kita tak boleh.. If there is a market and there is a demand, there will always be a supply.. Lagi pun our creative work is an asset.. we can give our 'assets' away or we can sell them.

Cuma bagi aku, aku memang tak setuju la kalau ada org berpendapat muzik 'should be free'

Muntz

Originally posted by azmee at 10-2-2007 06:55 PM
bro..i think you're missing the point.. the point is that there are many people who thinks that music should be free and consumers should not pay for music.. As for low bitrate, it's very subject ...

The one who suffered the most from the current practice is the artist itself. Remember Toni Braxton, TLC... they went bankrupt eventhough they sold thousand of copies from their albums. It's all because of manipulation by recording companies. I think u should read an article written by Courney Love herself about selling music. Her article gives us the true colours of what music industry is. You can read it here: http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index1.html

Downloading music illegally is one of the consequences from the bad practice they're doing now. I think most artists really want their fans to listen to their music for free, but since that they need to stuff up the recording company's manager's stomach, they are forced to sell it. Of course, nothing comes for free in this world, but the least you can do is try and buy system. Let the listeners try listening completely to your stuff, then if they want to keep it forever... ask them to buy. As simple as that.

Do you know how much does it takes for an album to debut to #1 in Billboard Top 200 albums chart right now? All it takes is 65k of sales! Enough for you to get that title of "best-selling album" of the week. That's not what happened in the past... the very underrated Erykah Badu "Baduizm" can sell as much as 3 mil copies a year.... but Mary J. Blige "Breakthrough" is considered a BIG success when she managed to sell less 400k from that amount. Why is that so? Because we're limiting our listeners' right to enjoy the songs. DRM, Copy-protected CD, 30sec low bitrate clip... these three things are the "greatest murderer" of our music industry.

sedondon

Tapi utk band yg baru nak naik, salah satu cara utk promosikan band diorang adalah dgn sedia utk perform secara percuma dipublic.exposed kan diri anda walaupun tidak dibayar sesen pun.

sayangidaku

aku vote other or 50-50.
some music patut free(the cheap sounding one)...some maybe kene byr as tanda penghargaan n apresiasi kita pd kreativiti seseorg tu. mcm lukisan gakla kan..