RESPECT.....

hamizao

Originally posted by Agul at 12-6-2008 03:10 PM
Acceptance. Well, eventhough i'm not married yet, am I allowed to say that marriage for most partners are usually full of concoction of things you do to get approval or love, and control.

Most ...

I cannot say for others, but to me, the institution of marriage is as per God ordained. So, there are sets of rules to ensure a degree of understanding and henceforth discipline in the conduct of those concerned

Just as living in a community would mean living within certain boundaries, so is marriage. People do want to "belong" and that is why acceptance can be a very important issue. In the old days, it would mean survival for the tribe. However, there is a difference between doing things just to gain approval AND doing things that people approve of. Getting/giving love, respect or approval is a confirmation/endorsement/reinforcement for being on the right track. This is important for partners in marriage since no two people think exactly alike. How would they live in harmony without receiving/giving feelers or signals regarding the effect their actions have on the other? A wise/sensitive party would of course take immediate steps to rectify any shortcoming.

Most never accept their partner as they are.

That is what mutual respect is about.................it is about accepting each other as they are......giving them their space. So,  if most people do not accept their partners as they are, then there must be many miserable people out there! I feel that by accepting and understanding, then only would people be able to adjust themselves.

Hmmm...entah korang paham ke tak ngomel den tu!

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 11-7-2008 11:21 PM

Just as living in a community would mean living within certain boundaries, so is marriage. People do want to "belong" and that is why acceptance can be a very important issue. In the old days, it would mean survival for the tribe. However, there is a difference between doing things just to gain approval AND doing things that people approve of. Getting/giving love, respect or approval is a confirmation/endorsement/reinforcement for being on the right track. This is important for partners in marriage since no two people think exactly alike. How would they live in harmony without receiving/giving feelers or signals regarding the effect their actions have on the other? A wise/sensitive party would of course take immediate steps to rectify any shortcoming.

Yeah hami,  Iagree.

The way I use the word want is like this.

It's not wrong to give/have/receive approval, love, respect or admiration. By all means, get and give all the approval you can.
The only problemis when people "wants" approval. Wants here means lack. You want something, that mean you don't currently have that very thing.

For example if your name is Yerin, you don't want to be Yerin. You're already her. A millionaire don't want to be a millionaire. He or she is already a millionaire, he/she may want to be a multimiliionaire, or billionaire but he/she will not crave or want to be one, because he already is one. Someone who want to sleep is still awake, if he/she is asleep, he/she won't want to anymore. He/she's already in deep slumber.

So wanting equals lack, or  don't have. Isn't it interesting to see that "those who have certain things, are given more of that thing.". "Those who don't have any, more will be taken away from him".

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 18-5-2008 12:37 AM
Ah, Agul. IMO feelings are never wrong .......it's the input that gives rise to the perception of the truth that is often flawed. Change the input then surely the feeling would change also....... ...

I think what you refer here is actually intuition.

Currently I'm of the opinion that feelings usually lie (someone said that feelings only lie,     I'm still not sure if that is true for all time, I need more practise and awareness first before forming my conclusion).

Intuition, on the other hand is only right all the time (how to get to this state?). If we can seperate our own feelings from intuition, we can be right more of the time.

hamizao

The only problemis when people "wants" approval. Wants here means lack. You want something, that mean you don't currently have that very thing.

"Lack" is relative to one's need for satisfaction. Just like a big eater and a small eater. So it ranges from "don't have" to "not enough" The small eater would view the big eater as "tamak", The big eater would view the small eater as "little people". So, how do we rationalise it?

hamizao

I suppose you may call it as intuition. Generally, it is our reaction to the perception we form the info/input we get. Say, someone talks to you in a rude manner. Your initial reaction perhaps, would be to feel taken aback for a moment. Then when the mind sets in, you may be able to rationalise why he is rude and then decide whether to feel angry, pitiful or vengeful etc. Such feelings I think are as the result of that intuition to self preserve. It is subject to what the mind perceives. Perception is subject to knowledge or understanding and your value system. Therefore if you want to change your feeling, you need to change your knowledge and value system. That's why I say feelings are never wrong. If it is or lies, then there is something amiss with your knowledge and value system.

Am I making sense?

Agul

eel

Originally posted by hamizao at 13-7-2008 01:10 AM
I suppose you may call it as intuition. Generally, it is our reaction to the perception we form the info/input we get. Say, someone talks to you in a rude manner. Your initial reaction perhaps, would be to feel taken aback for a moment. Then when the mind sets in, you may be able to rationalise why he is rude and then decide whether to feel angry, pitiful or vengeful etc. Such feelings I think are as the result of that intuition to self preserve. It is subject to what the mind perceives. Perception is subject to knowledge or understanding and your value system. Therefore if you want to change your feeling, you need to change your knowledge and value system. That's why I say feelings are never wrong. If it is or lies, then there is something amiss with your knowledge and value system.

Am I making sense?

Regarding your example, my take is this...

Someone said something. We feel  grief,牋fear or anger. We think that the person make us feel this feeling. However the person only exercise his vocal chords, or type something on the internet.Our feeling is our own reaction to what happens. Who's feeling it is? It is our feeling,爏o we can change.

That's why different people have diferent reaction to the same thing. Who's correct? Two person feels differently so one should correct, the other must be wrong. Or maybe it is personal truth? Rigt for you and rigt for them? But that would be too complex, confusing燼nd mind boggling...

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 13-7-2008 12:34 AM

"Lack" is relative to one's need for satisfaction. Just like a big eater and a small eater. So it ranges from "don't have" to "not enough" The small eater would view the big eater as "tamak", The big eater would view the small eater as "little people". So, how do we rationalise it?

I can only reply with this...


The Rolling Stones "Satisfaction"

Mind you, I'm a modern rock kind of guy and not into classic rock at all.

hamizao

Agree that Truth is constant but then it depends on how it is communicated. Remember the " Pass On " game we used to play like passing on a message and see what the last person in the group finally receive? It shows how Truth may be distorted by how it is being communicated. I can only feel what my mind tells me of things. So, for that my feelings are True to my mind....it always is. That is what I am trying to say here. Whether or not my mind had gotten the Truth and perceives it the way the Truth is in it's original state, in the first place, is not the responsibility of the feeling. So usually, if there appears to be an error in a second person's reaction, the first person ought to firstly look back to see if he had passed on his message clearly in the first place. COMMUNICATION BREAKDOWN is usually the culprit. Never the feeling...................

Intuition, is usually based on the unknown...i.e beyond our basic  senses.

Am open to anyone's views of course.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 13-7-2008 01:16 PM ]

Agul

So we have the absolute truth, which never changes.

And relative truth, which change.

hamizao

Hmmmm.....I  figure Truth IS Truth. That's it. Nokhtah.
However i am game with Ultimate Truth.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 13-7-2008 02:54 PM ]

Agul

For me Truth is Absolute Truth.

when I use the word Truth it actually refer to Absolute truth. However most people refer to relative truth when they talk about truth.

IMHO Truth cannot be explained, only alluded to...

Relative truth, on the other hand, is still in the realm of linguistic

hamizao

The truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. That surely is everyone's truth.

Relative truth? Is it like an "if" statement in maths?

redsinner

i like the fundamental Truth principle here...
but mind you, people want to hear what they want to hear.
we as the presenter/speaker have to tailor ourselves to our advantage instead of giving out the honest and plainfully Truth of the most Truthful things that ignite the idea.

justmy 2 cents because i've learnt that truth is not as genuine as it used to be

Agul

Truth that doesn't depend on the observer.

I think this truth is beyond rationalisation, beyond thinking and man made language. It can only be experienced.

Relative truth could be that, and much more. Everything that needs an observer, that two or more observer can see differently is, for me, relative truth.
And this frighteningly includes almost everything in our awareness.

hamizao

Must be careful in case it amounts to twisting, kan........?.

hamizao

I think this truth is beyond rationalisation, beyond thinking and man made language. It can only be experienced.

For example...?

Agul

example of what? Truth or half-truths?

hamizao

Truth, Agul dear. What experience would you recognise as the truth then.

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 27-7-2008 07:09 PM
Truth, Agul dear. What experience would you recognise as the truth then.

I am sorry. I can't. I don't have the ability to explain truth, only allude to, based on my limited understanding (intellect can only explain so much).
For the moment, this is my understanding (not knowing) of it. It may be faulty or not.


1. No one can be taught about Truth, they can be guided, but they have to realize Truth by himself/herself.

2. Someone can give us the direction, the way, and  we may take it.

3. Truth can be proven all the time.  We爉ust prove out for ourselves.

4. There is only one Absolute Truth

5. Truth  is changeless.

6. Before we attain to the one Absolute Truth we may use the apparency of relative truth.

7. Truth is not in the realm of understanding (intellectual), it is in the realm of knowing (beyond inteelectual).

This is some of my view on truth, there are more but I think this is enough.
If you ask me more question on this, I don't know if I can really explain it to you anynore. It's not that i don't want to but it's beyond my abilities. In fact, even now I'm not sure of the validity of those point that  I made above. I'm  trying to take it for checking.  

I somehow feel them to be true. I can't tell if I know them to be true though.

If you ask for specific example, I don't know.

bestest_mom

respect means accept others for wht they are and treat them the way we want to be treated.  agree to disagree without belittle that person.