cerita pasal kerja n pengalaman as/with org undang2 [keh keh keh]

fairy_hobbit · Post time 29-1-2007 04:41 PM

best ke jadi lawyer?

stressed? rasa nak mencarut? takut jawab telefon? benci masuk ofis? pushy clients? client lambat bayar bills?
wat about in house counsel? relax? takut jawab telefon gak? too much agreement to vet? mixed-up with loads of corporate secretarial work? suka call n push external lawyers? too many deadlines?

what about those in AG's? Apa khabar DPPs? FCs? Para magistrates? SARs? TPs? geram dgn polis? kena maki dgn hakim? benci tgk lawyer? :@
or lecturers? anak murid biadap? murid2 err.. bengap?

what about our co-secs..... company secretaries.. byk sgt board committees meeting? :geram: directors mengada2? department lain asyik byk tanya bila decision nak siap?

and apa2 saja career lain (enforcement officers, police, custom, etc)

hehehehe... macam2 jenis kerja pun mesti ada ups n downs kan.. anyway..
cerita jer la pengalaman korang sendiri or org2 yg korang kenal sepanjang bekerja/belajar benda2 yg bersangkut paut dgn law ni ni kalau ada yg tension ke, syok ker. also pengalaman korang deal dgn org2 yg career diorang ada sangkut paut dgn law.. like lawyer korang tipu ker.. magistrate kerek ker... lecturer garang tahap gaban ker...

... dating dgn lawyer cun ker...

or bole jugak kalau ada yg nak tanya bidang kerja diorang ni apa? how to become one, kelulusan apa, where to apply, syarat2 etc.... kalau aku reti aku jawab.. kalau aku tak reti/malas/tak dapek curi2 pakai internet ... org lain jawab. :tq:

fairy_hobbit · Post time 29-1-2007 05:35 PM

In case if you are wondering why ramai lawyers yg cabut n quit practice... this article is accurate to reflect whats happening in malaysia..... except that not all young lawyers dpt blackberry kat malaysia (henpon murah pun tak bagi).. :@ n gaji lawyer kat mesia on average is much much lesser than starting salary kat SG tu!!! (RM4000? duhhhh.... jgn harap)

n i think legal firm kat SG lagi jaga kebajikan young lawyers..

Law firms move to keep young legal eagles

Thursday, 25 January 2007, 08:41am

By Ben Nadarajan (NST SG)

AT THE recent opening of the new legal year, Attorney-General Chao Hick Tin drew attention to the problem of Singapore's vanishing young lawyers.

He referred to the number who drop out of practice each year, and said it might be an 'early sign of an ailing profession'.

Law Society data bear out his concern. The number of young lawyers - with under seven years' experience - has shrunk by over a third in the last five years.

There were only 1,004 young lawyers in practice last year, down from 1,537 in 2001.
This should be seen against the steady flow of 240 graduates from the National University of Singapore each year, plus more who qualify overseas.

The young lawyers' category is the only one bleeding, causing the overall industry shortage and raising worries for the future.

Singapore has a total of 3,476 lawyers handling over 350,000 cases a year.

The issue of young lawyers quitting practice is not new. What is of concern now is the sheer number missing from action.

Those who quit usually leave in their third or fourth year of practice, opting to become in-house counsel in big companies or to work in foreign law firms.

Continue.......

Some quit law completely, including those who never intended to make it a career and viewed their training and experience as stepping stones to other less stressful, more lucrative jobs.

Those who have quit say pay and career path issues are a factor.

The shortage of young lawyers has seen starting pay rise, with big firms said to be paying between $4,000 and $5,000 for new hires.

: :siok: (byk tuuuu....!)

But many young lawyers say that more money may not compensate for the stress that hits them from three fronts - the courts, their clients and their bosses. :@

Litigation lawyers - those who go to court - say the pace of work has become frantic, given the swiftness with which cases move through the efficient legal system.

Some young lawyers have been put off by being at the receiving end of stinging criticism from the Bench, especially when they appear unprepared for their cases.

Law Society president Philip Jeyaretnam said lawyers have held dialogues with the Supreme Court and Subordinate Courts about the atmosphere in courtrooms.

They also asked judges to be more accommodating towards lawyers' schedules, to help counsel avoid back-to-back trials.

Chief Justice Chan Sek Keong has recognised the need for a better atmosphere in courtrooms.

Soon after becoming Chief Justice last year, he told young lawyers they 'should not feel stressed and should have no fear of being stressed' when they appear before him or other judges.

Lawyers who quit say that difficult clients have become a push factor too.

With the advance in technology, clients now expect lawyers to be at their beck and call and reply to e-mails immediately. Many big firms give their lawyers Blackberries, a tacit sign that they are on call 24/7, leading to cynics dubbing the wireless multimedia handheld device their 'ball-and-chain'.

Courts and clients aside, young lawyers complain about long hours and fulfilling an 'unwritten expectation' that they must slog for long hours to prove their worth.

The problem is said to be worst for those in small- or medium-sized firms, which take in only a handful of fresh graduates each year.

Each young lawyer may have to do grunt work like research and filing for up to five senior lawyers, all of whom expect their assignments to take priority.

'Every partner says his work is more important and to do it first,' said a 25-year-old in a mid-sized firm. 'But other partners also set tight deadlines, so we end up working seven days a week.'

A 27-year-old who has worked three years in a big firm said: 'Even when the partners tell us not to stay back, we want to impress them, so we end up working extra hard and staying late.'

Mr Jeyaretnam, a Senior Counsel who has been practising for 20 years, said that staff development was something many firms overlooked previously, but things are changing now.

Firms realise it benefits them if their young lawyers stay on.

He said firms should help their lawyers develop not only professionally, but personally as well.

Some firms have moved to ease the stress.

At Drew & Napier, a firm with 100 young lawyers among its total of 220, there are monthly events such as cooking classes, yoga lessons and car rallies.

Harry Elias Partnership funds monthly social gatherings for its young lawyers to go wakeboarding, play golf and attend wine-tasting events.

Miss Tan Ailin, a lawyer with the firm who has been in practice for three years, said being able to bond with her colleagues makes the long hours and stress easier to bear.

Most law firms also have mentorship schemes in place.

At Rodyk & Davidson, which has 40 young lawyers out of a total of 100, partner Christopher Chong said the firm monitors junior lawyers' workloads to guard against burnout.

It also allows young lawyers to handle their own cases when they are ready, so that they do not feel they only provide back-up to their seniors.

At Drew & Napier, Senior Counsel Jimmy Yim said providing proper guidance is the key to lowering anxiety levels and encouraging young lawyers to stay.

'We must guide them through a gradual process where they learn the basics well before moving on to handle their own cases,' he said.

To find out more about the reasons why young people are quitting the profession, the Young Lawyers' Committee of the Law Society will survey junior lawyers this year.

Committee chief Laura Liew, 27, feels that while new lawyers can sometimes be impatient for the glamorous work, bearing some pain at the beginning of a career in law may not be a bad thing entirely.

Noting that some young lawyers are anxious to 'build castles without first building the foundations', she said: 'Doing very basic legal work provides solid grounding.'

[ Last edited by fairy_hobbit at 29-1-2007 05:36 PM ]

chipmunk · Post time 29-1-2007 06:15 PM

budak tgh blajar law leh join tak:bgrin:

fairy_hobbit · Post time 29-1-2007 06:20 PM

join jer... hehehe.... citer pasal diri sendiri ker, org lain ker...
tp kalau ngumpat lecturer lebih2 nanti tak berkat... otak jammed masa exam/mooting tak jamin haaa...

chipmunk · Post time 29-1-2007 06:37 PM

ok nie citer bebudak baru nak grad law nie, last sem huhu kat uitm nie dah di'train nak jadi loyer so kelas mmg dr 8am smp 6pm kekadang melalut sampai 9 malam...siap kene punch kad lg mcm gov officer, kalo tak punch abislah kene mjawab ngan cos tutor hehe...
tapi ape pun last sem byk mgajar kitorang tau sket2 nature keje loyer, stress, nak mgamuk, frust menonggeng lebih2 lagi bler klas kene ganti hujung mgu waaaa...bencinya we lost our life......patutla ada suara2 sumbang kat sini leh kata 'takmo jd loyer' keje lain lg best...'takmo jd loyer convey, benciii byk doc' 'takmo jd dpp, tensen...takda life ngan family, tak dpt dating huhu...
lect?ada yg memahami ada yg tak....lain kali leh cter.....

rurouni_khairul · Post time 31-1-2007 02:43 PM

Ko nie mesti junior aku? Aku UiTM LL.B batch 2005 (Hons) batch 2006, skrg tgh sibuk buat chambering..

Ko chambering kat ner?

[ Last edited by rurouni_khairul at 31-1-2007 02:45 PM ]

chipmunk · Post time 31-1-2007 07:15 PM

a'ah junior ko..baru part 2 hons...aku tak taulah nak chambie ke tak, rase mcm tak kot, ada plan lain? ko wat chambie kat ner ruroni

rurouni_khairul · Post time 31-1-2007 07:38 PM

Originally posted by chipmunk at 31-1-2007 07:15 PM
a'ah junior ko..baru part 2 hons...aku tak taulah nak chambie ke tak, rase mcm tak kot, ada plan lain? ko wat chambie kat ner ruroni

Haha..Selamat berjaya..ade jumpa Mr. rajesh tak? Kem salam kat die k..

Aku chambie kat Ampang, firm name Bustaman...firm nie buat IP dgn civil semata..Criminal jgn tanye, buta kayu aku...

Ade tak coursemate ko name die Sharmin...pompuan dari Kelantan..Putih2 kecik2 ajer orangnya...

fairy_hobbit · Post time 31-1-2007 09:40 PM

muda2nya korang ni

rejesh jugak jadi pojaan.... :tq:

laislabonita · Post time 1-2-2007 01:41 AM

oh, aku blajar accounting pun kena tau pasal law gak, pening den, huhu...

tapi kalau expert, mmg besh gak, dapat manipulasi keadaan dan kes...

laislabonita · Post time 1-2-2007 01:45 AM

daripada pengalaman aku belajar pasal law (utk yg bukan amik major law la), bagi aku law ni berbelit2 gak and tak jelas... wpun dinyatakan menurut akta or seksyen sekian2, tapi mmg akan ada kes yg tak match dgn mana2 akta atau seksyen, tu yg leh manipulate pelbagai... agaknye sbb tulah org cakap lawyer ni suka putar belit kut...

rurouni_khairul · Post time 1-2-2007 03:04 AM

Originally posted by fairy_hobbit at 31-1-2007 09:40 PM
muda2nya korang ni rejesh jugak jadi pojaan.... :tq:

Eh! ko nie pun UiTM jugak ker? batch biler ek?

Originally posted by laislabonita at 1-2-2007 01:45 AM
daripada pengalaman aku belajar pasal law (utk yg bukan amik major law la), bagi aku law ni berbelit2 gak and tak jelas... wpun dinyatakan menurut akta or seksyen sekian2, tapi mmg akan ada kes y ...

Sebenarnya kalau ko blajo Jurisprudence lagi ko pening

...punca nape law nie berbelit-belut ialah kerana (kalau mengikut pahaman Realisme laa kalau aku silap tolong betulkan aku...) Undang-undang yang termaktub di dalam Akta atau kes-kes perundangan yang lama sebenarnya bukanlah undang-undang dalam erti kata sebenar tapi ia hanya akan jadik undang-undang pada parti-parti yang terlibat dan eksklufinya pade mereka sahaja dan bukan pada orang lain.

Katakan A dan B masuk perbicaraan dalam dispute tentang kontrak. Katakan Akta yang digunakan ialah Akta Kontrak 1950 (Akta 136) dan kes yang digunakan ialah KP KUNCHI RAMAN V GOH BROTHERS SDN BHD, CIVIL SUIT NO 234 OF 1972, OCJ PENANG, 29 MARCH 1977, GUNN CHIT TUAN J. Semua ini bukanlah undang-undang kepada si A dan si B kerana Realisme punya dalil ialah ape yang diputuskan oleh hakim dalam kes ini merujuk kepada otoriti-otoriti di atas adalah undang-undang yang terhad kepada si A dan B sahaja, tapi tidak pada orang lain. Ape yang telah diputuskan pade mase-mase sebelum nie hanya merupakan undang-undang pade kes-kes yang lepas bukan pade kes yang present.

Kat sinilah datangnya perdebatan untuk meyakinkan si hakim agar membuat keputusan yang memihak samada kepada si A atau B. Tuh yang jadik pening tuh sampai nak muntah

[ Last edited by rurouni_khairul at 1-2-2007 03:10 AM ]

chipmunk · Post time 2-2-2007 09:49 AM

Originally posted by rurouni_khairul at 31-1-2007 07:38 PM

Haha..Selamat berjaya..ade jumpa Mr. rajesh tak? Kem salam kat die k..

Aku chambie kat Ampang, firm name Bustaman...firm nie buat IP dgn civil semata..Criminal jgn tanye, buta kayu ...

haha rajes mmg best...nie tgh megular sbb xder kelas dier hehe...shahmin!my classmate

chipmunk · Post time 2-2-2007 10:23 AM

Originally posted by rurouni_khairul at 1-2-2007 03:04 AM

Eh! ko nie pun UiTM jugak ker? batch biler ek?

Sebenarnya kalau ko blajo Jurisprudence lagi ko pening ...punca nape law nie berbelit-belut ialah kerana (kalau mengikut pahaman Reali ...

hehe..juris my fevret subjek, leh ajak berpikir, kekadang leh manipulate byk, sbb aku kalo 'black letter law' nie kureng sket huhu....

philipinoe2 · Post time 2-2-2007 11:49 AM

PEGUAMBELA DAN PEGUAMCARA (Part 1)

post ini khas utk adik2 yg br lps grad course law, or maybe jugak bergune utk adik2 yg br berciter2 nk amek course law...

utk yg interested into law..

tanye diri sndiri knape korg minat law, nk amek course law...sbb parent ke, sbb korg mmg suke berdebat ke, sbb korg nmpk loyer mcm kerjaye yg best ke, sbb awek/bf korg amek kos law ke, korg nk gaji lumayan ke sbb korg pikir jd loyer gaji mahal, ke sbb ape?..

1st & foremost, paling penting ni: korg kene bebetul minat ngan law..law bermakne korg kene bace bnyk mende, kes law, law books, papers, journal, thesis etc..sbb tu org blaja law di panggil "reading law"..law ade bnyk branches, dr yg core mcm contract, tort, constitutional, company, land, famili sampai la kpd yg minor mcm shipping, cyber, IP, building contract, corporate etc...dlm law ade bnyk istilah/maxims yg salunyer diambil dr common law, ade general law dan juga proviso/exception...

2nd, kene tahan pressure...normalla mane2 kos pon, msti ade assignment, presentation, paperwork, quiz, analysis etc...tahan pressure tu maksudnye kekadang law lecturer ni ade yg jenis2 suke maki student, maklumla time derang ngaja student law la derang leh maki2, dah student tu jd loyer/someone xkn derang brani nk maki lagi kan...

..pressure jugak sbb dlm quiz/exam, kiter kene hapal/ingt bnyk mende, kes law la, Acts la, kalu jenis open book test xper jugak, kalu yg jenis x leh bwk ape2 Act, mmg sengsare la nk ingat sumer mnde...tp pressure ni bagus sbenanyer, sbb tu adelah trening sblm masuk alam pekerjaan, kalu jd loyer, presure is a must!

3rd, analytical thinking...tp aku lebih suke menggunekan perkataan cunning thinking aka keji/hina/bijak menggunekan pluang...analytical tu maknenye kene cepat pick up, think fast, sbb a good loyer slagi dier buleh putar belit, slagi tula dier akan putar belit, even ade pepatah menyatakan, "a very good lawyer can convince the world that the earth is a square" (ni sbenanyer aku reke, utk menyedapkan citer ni

)..analytical thinking penting sbb dlm law nie, mmg full of surprise...korg expect A, so korg dah prepare B,C dan D, tp all of sudden rope2nyer datang M, kalu korg xde analytical thinking susah la...cunning thinking plak, walaupon kiter malu nk admit, tp the truth is, mmg jd loyer ni kene keji...topic psl keji akan aku citer lebih lanjut di episod akan datang...:pmuka:..tp bkn aku nk kate kalu korg jujur/siqoh/fatonah korg x patut amek law, cume korg dah kurang 1 feature yg normally ade pade loyer..

yg laen2 tu basic la, korg kene confident, kene hardworking, kene blalalalala...

so, katekan korg ade sume ciri2 di atas, ape yg patut korg stress/emphasize dlm law/subject law ni..

x silap aku, sumer ipt dlm mesia nie ade core/main subject, then ade minor/specialize subject utk dipilih...kt mesia nie ade 4 ipta offer law (setau aku), ipts bnyk gak...tp ade certain subject tu maybe core kt ipt X tp cume minor kat ipt Z vice versa, so aku ckp ni in general je..

subject yg penting, yg bebetul korg kene expert kalu korg nk practice lps grad: tort, contract, company, land, family, equity/trust, consti (x brape gune sgt), procedure utk civil/criminal (paling penting), criminal (kalu korg bebetul nk pursuit jd criminal loyer), conveyancing (kalu korg nk jd conveyancing loyer), mooting/PP (penting utk advocacy in court)...

papehal pon, enjoy reading law (kalu korg choose course law)...

to be continued.....

[ Last edited by philipinoe2 at 12-2-2007 08:29 PM ]

fairy_hobbit · Post time 2-2-2007 12:10 PM

siqoh tu apa?

philipinoe2 · Post time 2-2-2007 12:23 PM

entah, aku maen tulis je....

rurouni_khairul · Post time 2-2-2007 05:59 PM

Originally posted by chipmunk at 2-2-2007 09:49 AM

haha rajes mmg best...nie tgh megular sbb xder kelas dier hehe...shahmin!my classmate

Hehehe..ngular aje keja ko...Kem salam kat Shahmin tuh eh..cakap kat die KA kem salamz..

Originally posted by chipmunk at 2-2-2007 10:23 AM

hehe..juris my fevret subjek, leh ajak berpikir, kekadang leh manipulate byk, sbb aku kalo 'black letter law' nie kureng sket huhu....

Juris dulu dapat A- ajer..tapi memang best bab-bab menggoreng nie...