Diskless Workstation/Terminal server

Saya bercadang nak buka cybercafe... Ada kwn² saya mencadangkan ttg diskless workstation...apa sebenarnya benda nih dan bagaimana caranya

oobi

laaa....awat tak tanya kawan yang cadangkan tu? boleh dapat direct and on the spot answer. nak cite, panjang pulak karang. check kat SINI.




[ Last edited by  oobi at 2-11-2006 11:55 AM ]

ascari

cuba google LTSP -linux terminal server project

ascari

http://www.2x.com/thinclientserver/

ascari

Windows 2003 Terminal Server, Remote Desktop, thin clients and all that

Citrix, Terminal Server, Tarantellla, Web Enabled, Thin Client, Diskless Workstation, Dumb Terminal, Smart Terminal, Client Server, or related Remote Desktop, VNC, GotoMyPC, Screen Scraping, blah, blah, blah. No wonder people get confused. Lots of similar or related things, no end of licensing confusion, no end of general confusion.

Let's try to cut through some of it. First, let's move back and look at the original Unix style multi-user model: dumb terminals, green screens (even if they were orange or white), the character based environment that all Windows folk loathe and disparage. How did that work? The application ran on the Unix server, and only sent characters back to the terminal, and the terminal only sent keystrokes to the Unix box. This is the hateful environment of Unix, disliked not just for its esoteric character based commands, but also for the centralized control, the lack of empowerment for the user, and for the priesthood of the central server administrators. Funny, but the priesthood is back, along with centralized control, lack of empowerment, and all that. All that's different is GUI vs. character based.

ascari

And that's not even fair either, because Unix has had GUI remote access for some time: X Windows. Again, the real application runs on the CPU of the server, and the client (the X Terminal) just sends key and mouse events and then displays the screens that the centralized server app sends back. The X Terminal can be a stand alone device not a whole lot smarter than a dumb terminal, or it can be a piece of software running on a PC or other computer. Whatever it is, we're still in the same "mainframe" mindset: the app runs on the server.
Client Server

At some point, someone realized that it might make sense to have the client do some of the grunt work. Maybe it's as simple as just caching some graphics, but more likely it means hiding an unfriendly server app from the user. This can make things easier all around: put raw power in the server application, but don't concern yourself with user friendliness. If you need a list of A/R totals, just have the server dump that information: no formatting, no prettiness, no grand totals, no headers, etc. Put some smarts in the client to do the pretty-it-up stuff. The server side might be little more than a database that takes SQL queries and spits back results, but the GUI-fied client running on a PC (or whatever - could be running on a Solaris SparcStation) hides all that.

Now, the important question: is that a "fat" client or a "thin" client? And the answer is: who knows? It depends on who is looking at what and what they think is important about each side of the system. Who does most of the heavy lifting? See Fat vs. Thin: Ten Common Myths about Client / Server

There's also a very special kind of client, designed for old character based apps. This GUI-fies the old Unix app, adding menus and mouse capability etc. It may involve a new app added to the server that helps it talk to the old app, or it might do "screen scraping" - figuring out what's going on by reading characters from the screen. Or it might do both.
Windows, the single user OS that isn't really

Enough about Unix, at least for now. Enter Windows. Windows apps were originally very "fat client". If they used a server at all, it was for file and print services: the data might be stored at the server, but the app ran at the local PC. That's as "fat client" as you can get: the server's involvement is very small. Important, of course, but it's not doing much real work. There are still lots of "multi-user" Windows apps that work that way. But eventually people realized that the server could run the app just like it did on Unix (except with more interruptions from crashes, of course) and a thin (or thinner) client would run at the PC.

In this situation, the Windows server is acting just like the Unix server did: the central app runs on the server, clients on PC's send commands to it and process the results. In fact, this is so much like Unix that some app vendors let you choose your server OS: they have Windows versions, Unix versions, Commodore 64 versions .. well, maybe not that, but the idea that the server part of the app could run on Windows or various flavors of Unix is still popular with bigger and more important apps. There's a Windows client, but the server can be whatever you want.

ascari

Remote Desktop, VNC, etc

These types of products have nothing to do with what we are talking about, except in the sense that they are thin clients for the biggest app of all: the OS desktop. They all have different features and capabilities: they make take total control, they may "share" with the machine's real user (great for training), but the important point is that they are running the machine's desktop. On a Windows machine, that's as far as you go, though of course with a Unix box there could be multiple possibilities. But let's not complicate that.

However, Remote Desktop is extremely similar to the Windows Terminal Server client we'll be talking about next. So similar that you may find the clients talked about in the same context, and at least on some platforms, you might use the same client software to access either Remote Desktop or a Windows Terminal Server. Even if there is different software, you might me able to use the Terminal Server Client to access Remote Desktop. I only mention all that so you know that is why some discussions of one or the other may be confusing.
Terminal Server, Citrix, Tarantella

Now we come to the more interesting stuff. The idea behind all all of this is to let the Windows machine run more than one copy of an application. Why not? Why limit yourself to one desktop? Why not have a copy that the client off at the other PC can individually control? Think of the benefits: one application to keep patched and current. One big muscular server to run this stuff, much weaker machines for the clients. Control the environment they see: maybe they only get one specific app rather than a whole desktop! Or if they do get more general purpose use, we can lock them down much more easily to specific settings that they absolutely cannot mess with no matter how much they may know about their PC. Centralized control, money saved, security improved, wow, this is great!

Well, except that it really wasn't so great, at least so not when it first came out. Nothing wrong with the base idea, heck, that had been proven and tested on Unix for many years. And nothing really wrong with the server software or the PC clients that let all this magic happen - oh, there may have been bugs here and there, but those get cleared up. No, the real problem was the Windows applications.
Design Basics

The problem was that the Windows apps were seldom designed to be multi-user. They were written to run by themselves on their own machines, and they tended to not like keeping separate configurations etc. for multiple users. The multi-user software on the server could do a few things to fool the apps, but a poorly written app would still screw you up royally. So the early promise of this fell very flat: I saw many a business embrace this idea and toss it out a year or so later.

That was some time ago though. Nowadays, most Windows apps (the important ones, anyway) have been rewritten to be multi-user friendly. You can run Terminal Server (or Citrix, Tarantella, and who knows what else) and access apps with much weaker clients. The clients may not have to run on Windows PC's either: Macs, Linux, maybe even your mobile telephone or PDA can have clients to access the apps. All you need is licenses - both licenses for the multi-user access software AND licenses to run the apps multiple times. That can all be very confusing, see http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?id=154 and http://www.microsoft.com/windows ... censing/ts2003.mspx for some help with that.

By the way: Microsoft makes you buy licenses for products like Word etc. for each computer (terminal, whatever) that will connect and use the product. No "floating" licenses; see Licensing Microsoft Office in a Windows Terminal Server Environment

This can get really confusing: see How to install Microsoft Office on Terminal Server
Let's get really complicated

OK, time for a test. Here's the situation: we have a Unix server that runs a Cobol application. It uses what it calls a "thin client" app that you install on Windows machines. You also have remote offices and they tell you that the best way to handle that is to install Terminal Server. Their thin client, installed on the big Windows 2003 Terminal Server, will access the Unix box. So - remote clients access the Terminal Server to run the thin client which actually talks to the server app on the Unix box. Need a picture?

[ Windows Machine Running Terminal Server Client]  <--->

[ Windows 2003 Terminal Server running application's Thin Client ] <--->

[ Unix box running application server component ]


Do you see that a thin client is running another thin client? OK, two questions? Do they need the Terminal Server? If I do use the Terminal Server, does that mean ALL my Windows PC's have to use it?

If you've read and understood all of this, you know the answers. First, no, they don't absolutely need the Terminal Server. Their concern probably is speed because your remote machines aren't running at local network speeds. It's possible that their application doesn't like waiting for things too long and will misbehave if you don't use this method, but more likely it's just that performance will suffer. Still, app vendors are always looking for excuses when their software bombs, so if they say they want Terminal Server, you probably should do it their way. But that doesn't mean that your local PC's need to access the app that way. Assuming they have the horsepower and appropriate OS to run the app's thin client, they can bypass the Terminal Server and go straight to the Unix box. However, you may have other reasons to send them the circuitous route: you may have older, weaker machines that can't handle the app's not-so-very-thin client, but could run the Terminal Server Client. Or maybe you've just had it with Microsoft's never ending problems and you want to run Linux or Mac PC's - they can run the app's Windows Client by way of Terminal Server. Carried to the extreme, you might need only ONE Windows machine to care for. That's a comforting thought, isn't it?

See also http://www.brienposey.com/kb/usi ... _for_net_mgmt_1.asp

ascari

Diskless systems
on Windows 2003


Special motherboard

USING a new software add-on to Windows 2003, Bitstop was able to successfully boot and run Windows 2000 professional and applications from a diskless workstation. The machines are joined to Windows2003 active directory domain on the server. It also ran MS Office and a bevy of other game software like "Command and Conquer: Generals."

Manuel Wong of Redwood Ventures lent us the special motherboard from ASROCK that made this possible and, trust me, it's all very cost-effective. The P4i45D motherboard comes with a built-in LAN card. This NIC (network interface card) contains PXE-boot ROM. This is the hardware component needed to run the diskless scenario. I hear that a newer model is now out, this is the P4i45G. This model is like the P4i45D but comes with the VGA built-in. This results in further price savings.

A lot of benefits can be had with diskless workstations. Firstly, the avoidance of a hard disk means an initial lower investment for my clients. Secondly, since there is no hard disk in the system, I can advise my clients that a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) system is now optional. Thirdly, since each workstation in the system uses NO hard disk, we can save on anti-virus licensing cost, as well. Hopefully, the savings from such a system can be used to invest in original Microsoft licenses.

Since the machines are joined in an active directory environment, the system enjoys additional benefits of user and computer group policies that could be used to lock down the system. They can save their work in user home directories on the server. This prevents most user-misconfiguration errors and are a joy to most system administrators I know.

Gerard (my staff) and I were invited to Cebu Waterfront hotel in Lahug to demonstrate our "POC" (proof of concept) of the diskless workstations (the showers at Waterfront were too low for me, but it was just right for Gerard).

The first question that the attendees asked was about speed. Won't it be slow? What would it be like when all workstations accessed the server at the same time? What applications can run in such a system?

This is not a terminal server client. The solution enables users to do computing using the processors of each machine, unlike a terminal client server solution, where all computation is done by one huge server.

ascari

How many workstations?

A Windows 2003 server in our POC configuration can host at most 25 workstations. We are taking advantage of the fact that the new Windows 2003 is now 165 percent faster when compared to Windows 2000 in file and print services. In the Waterfront event, the server had four pieces of 5400 rpm Maxtor drives with Promise Raid controllers supplied to us by Tina of PCTrends to eliminate any disk I/O bottlenecks. It speeded up things a lot.

As a proof of the speed, we set up eight workstations that all booted up remotely from a Windows 2003 server in an active directory environment. The machines ran Windows Media Player version 9. They all accessed and played a 60-Mb "avi" file from the Windows 2003 server. All machines played without buffering or jitter whatsoever on the 10/100 LAN. The audience couldn't believe that the machines didn't have hard disks in them. Some even came up and took a look at the insides of the machines just to make sure.

Boot up time is also no problem, as the POC can be made to boot up the workstations in multicast mode. This means that a single stream of data is received by all the workstations to boot up into Windows 2000 professional. The boot up images are all read-only. This means that whatever changes users made to the system would not be saved, and you get the same profile when you restart the workstations.

In the event, I saw some of Cebu's biggest and most respected distributors, like Lenton Beltran of Lenton Marketing, Wilson Tan of Thinking Tools, and Wilbert of CBX. Wilbert is incidentally the cousin of my Summa Cum Laude classmate in UP Diliman, Ernie Tiu.

We are currently working out details of a training seminar with Manuel Wong of Redwood to spread the benefits of a Windows 2003 server in a diskless environment. I would also like to take the opportunity to thank Manuel for the support in terms of hardware, and their hospitality during my stay in Cebu.

mcmana nih ada tak tokey cc kat sini pernah buat benda nih....

esbestos

Salam,

Saya nk tnya ni..ade sesape bleh britau x..brape harga sebiji Terminal ek? x kira la brand HP ke WYSE ke..janji terminal ngn keyboard skali..bajet nk ganti 8 biji terminal yg dah lame sgt ni..asyik rosak je..

Thanks 4 reply..

u setup pc with windows pre-installed enviroment or knoppix linux..jadik gak diskless workstation... but for most go with windows terminal server better.. linux i tak tahu never try those... takde sesapa yang boleh tolong ajarkan buat diskless workstation in linux?

what about thin client or netPC? diskless jugak kan?

itu bukan ker for machine lama yang berhubung via serial port tu ke?

esbestos

Originally posted by Minah_Flunxy at 2-11-2006 12:54 PM
itu bukan ker for machine lama yang berhubung via serial port tu ke?

aah..mmg da lame sgt pun..guna system ni dari taun 92 kot..dari serial kat terminal tu sambung kn ke RJ trus ke wall..

ascari

Windows XP livecd boleh tak??

Originally posted by ascari at 2-11-2006 05:59 PM
Windows XP livecd boleh tak??

yerrp, leh jugak jadikan diskless workstation... ada lagi satu BART CD, yang tu pun best gaks kalau nak run without HDD.

ascari

Introduction
Linutop is a Linux-based diskless computer. It offers a completely silent, low-power operation in an extremely small package.

Its main purpose is to surf the Internet.
http://www.linutop.com/

Specifications:
- AMD Geode
- 512 Mb ROM
- 256 Mb RAM
- 4x USB 2.0 ports
- audio in & out
- 100baseT Ethernet
- VGA output
- Size: 9.3 x 2.7 x 15 cm
- Weight: 280 gr
Expandability:
- USB2 , Wifi connection, Flat pannel,

Softwares:
- AbiWord Word Processor
- Evince PDF reader
- Firefox Web browser
- Gaim instant messenger
- Totem media player

ascari

Product Group:         Suntang Technology

Product Description
VDSA(the Virtual Disk System Architecture) is the top technology researched and developed by Shenzhen SunTang Technology and has got a patent right. Supported by VDSA Server, thin clients (diskless terminals) can run the operating system and application software directly without a local hard disk. With VDSA technology, the whole local network works like a single computer. Working with the independent computing of single computer and the distributed computing of network makes rational sharing of hardware and software resource. VDSA technology also has solved the problem of information-island of computer network at present. So far, the system adapting the VDSA technology has able to run with operating systems such as Microsoft Windows 9. X, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Linux and their application software.

The technology architecture of VDSA is constituted with:

VDSA-Operating System: Supports thin clients to run the operating system on virtual image of VDSA server.

VDSA-Application: Supports thin clients to run the application software on virtual image of VDSA server.

VDSA-Data Bank: Provides data storage room for client individual users.

From network architecture, VDSA contains several elements as below:

Server: Network virtual disk servo system(data process and files control), server chief-control system(login management, virtual disk manage, long-distance manage, user operating environmental manage system)

Network: The support and management of protocol like IPX, TCP/IP, PXE, EFI etc.

Client: OS image manage system

To be simple, the network structured with the VDSA technology has many advantages as:
The whole network works like a single computer;
No need to manage to clients;
No need to install operating system on clients;
No need hard disk on clients;
No junk files will be created on clients;
Clients can be protected from all known and unknown virus;
Only need to manage/ maintain the server, all clients can run the upgraded software on the network;

The network structured with VDSA technology has a much lower TCO(Total Cost of Ownership), a much higher performance capability and lower price rate meets national conditions/requirements and international technology development trend. Moreover, in a sense, where there are personal computers, there should be system like this. Thus, the VDSA technology and its products have a large application range. Some solutions with operability in China at present are: Education solution (e-classroom, e-reading room, and campus network), net cafe solution (internet surfing and game), office automation solution (e-government, ERP, financial and taxation system), financial and commercial terminals solution (security terminal, commercial POS), etc..
Trademark:         Suntang
Model:         N.S.Magic

http://www.made-in-china.com/sho ... ive-Technology.html

ascari

RichTech&#174; Diskless XP is a network disk operation system (OS) taking Windows 2000/2003 Server as the server system and Windows XP/2000 as the client system to carry out the application running under the NC environment via the PXE network boot mode without any hard disk (HD) installed on the client machine.

http://www.richtech.net.cn/english/product-ncxp.asp

ascari

SANTRONIX DISKLESS PC Solution

DISKLESS PC Card

    * Intel 8865 chipset LAN inbuilt
    * Fully complies with the IEEE 802.3, IEEE 802.3u and IEEE 802.3x industrial standards
    * Supports 32-bit, 33MHz PCI Local Bus Master Version 2.2/2.1.
    * Supports 10/100Mbps Auto-Negotiation, Full/Half- Duplex.
    * Supports RDP 5 & 5.2 Protocols
    * Plug-and-Play installation

Information:

    * A server-based computing solution.
    * Does not run applications locally.
    * No hard disk required on each NODE
    * Run latest software with blazing speed even on 486 system.
    * Supoprts Black & White (Mono) Monitors also with 640x480 or 800x600 Resolution

Business Benefits

    * Requires less IT staff / time.
    * Remote setup and administration.
    * Centralized data management.
    * Data uniformity / security.
    * Application deployment overnight and centralized.
    * Uses a fraction of a electricity of a pc.

Advantages:

    * 100% Compatible with Windows XP Home and Professional Editions
    * Also supports Full Screen MS-DOS on Terminals
    * Low total cost of ownership
    * Easy administration
      1. Applications and data are centrally managed.
      2. Nodes are centrally managed.
      3. Easy to deploy applications.
      4. Easy to trouble shoot problems.
    * High reliability / long life.
    * Low power consumption.
    * High security and control over users.
    * Access to windows applications.
      1. Thousands of off the shelf applications.
    * Ability to run multiple sessions.
    * Very flexible.

Server configuration

    * Server configuration basically depends on number of nodes connected to a server
    * Typically Pentium III , 933 MHz with 512MB RAM will support up to 10 clients.
    * Recommended : Pentium IV ,310GHz with 2GB RAM will support 60 clients running simultaneously.

Client configuration

    * Minimum requirements for node : Pentium I with 32MB RAM and 2MB video RAM on display card.

Hardware supported on the nodes:

    * Floppy disk drive
    * CD ROM
    * Serial / Parallel / USB Printers
    * Local hard disk drive
    * Sound
    * Thermal printers

Non - Supported hardware

    * CD writer
    * Scanner
    * Web camera

Supported OS

    * Windows 2000 Server / 2003 Server
    * Windows XP
    * MAC OS X
    * LINUX

Supported Softwares: All Windows compatible softwares.

Non - Supported OS

    * DOS
    * Windows 95 / 98

Non - Supported softwares

    * Few DOS based applications and Tally 4.5