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Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-7-14 03:01 PM:
What conflicting philosophy are you talking about? After all both are likely to return to the same source!
Same source? What do you mean? How do you know? |
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by ariyamusafir
before I continue, just want to ask about taoism. Is it that for taoism, we are a soul living in a body? and that when we die, our soul will leave this body and will remaina soul until reincarnation?
Answer the question ... WHAT is the difference which you have claimed earlier?
No other questions will be entertained till you give a proper answer. |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 16-7-2004 09:27:
by ariyamusafir
before I continue, just want to ask about taoism. Is it that for taoism, we are a soul living in a body? and that when we die, our soul will leave this body and will remaina ...
No!!! Because from what I know about taoism, which might be wrong, the question I posed is what they believe (I might be wrong). However, that is not so for Buddhism. Correct me if I am wrong. That is from what I understand about tao. Also, in Buddhism, the buddha teaches us non-attachments, no desire, no craving, no hate, no passion, no lust, to have patience, non-harming, non-taking intoxicating wine (is this permissible in Taoism from what i know, it is ok!), no telling lies, no idle talk and other which is not in the list.
[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 16-7-2004 at 10:05 AM ] |
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by ariyamusafir
No!!! Because from what I know about taoism, which might be wrong, the question I posed is what they believe ( I might be wrong). However, that is not so for Buddhism. Correct me if I am wrong.
:Stp:
Now you are saying there is no difference?
Or that you are not sure whether there is a difference?
before I continue, just want to ask about taoism. Is it that for taoism, we are a soul living in a body? and that when we die, our soul will leave this body and will remaina soul until reincarnation?
Toaism is study of Nature, NOT Metaphysical concept.
Toasist understood that Man is part of Nature and they study Nature to learn how to life with it in harmony. Along the way, some of them discovered that Man is living with other "beings" which they could not see but could feel their effects and the Nature itself is somewhat ... Alive. So they come out with various methods (magical or otherwise) to try and harmonize their lives with Nature and this unforeseen forces. That is where the Metaphysical concept in Toasm born from.
Some of you may say "That's just misconception" and consider Toaism as something out dated. Actually, it is more scientific than one could imagine. Go online and type "Gaia Theory" and you will come out with a scientific concept which is very similar to Taoism. |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 16-7-2004 10:04:
by ariyamusafir
No!!! Because from what I know about taoism, which might be wrong, the question I posed is what they believe ( I might be wrong). However, that is not so for Buddhism. Correc ...
Sorry but I have made some edits in my previous posts. By the way, the buddha's teachings is the four noble truths and the final goal is to attain Nibanna. |
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by ariyamusafir
Sorry but I have made some edits in my previous posts. By the way, the buddha's teachings is the four noble truths and the final goal is to attain Nibanna.
You forgot one thing - The Eightfold Path
Right View
Right Thought
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Contemplation
I don't see where in Toaism (or Confuciousm for that matter) where this concepts and theirs have conflict.
A person who calls himself Buddhist is not someone who reads the Sutra and sits inside the confide of the walls of Monastery, waiting for Nirwana to come. He is someone who lives and explore the word and seeks to see whether what he has learnt and the words he follows all this life is true or false.
ONLY when one sees the Truth and False of his own understanding, will he achieve Nirwana and there is NO better teacher of Dharma than the Nature itself. |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 16-7-2004 10:33:
by ariyamusafir
Sorry but I have made some edits in my previous posts. By the way, the buddha's teachings is the four noble truths and the final goal is to attain Nibanna.
You forgot ...
I know about the eight fold path and I know about that but as I said, I am far from perfect, so please forgive for if there are certain mistakes made. However, if my very little knowledge on taoism is correct, then there is a difference such as the believe in reincarnation and Buddhist believe in rebirth, not reincarnation. Example. |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 16-7-2004 10:33:
by ariyamusafir
Sorry but I have made some edits in my previous posts. By the way, the buddha's teachings is the four noble truths and the final goal is to attain Nibanna.
You forgot ...
Oh sorry sorry, by the way, there is no conflict as time has pass by whereby people mix taoism with Buddhism. By the way, I didn't say there is conflict, only have differences is what I mean. Differences doesn't necessary mean conflict right? |
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by ariyamusafir
Oh sorry sorry, by the way, there is no conflict as time has pass by whereby people mix taoism with Buddhism. By the way, I didn't say there is conflict, only have differences is what I mean. Differences doesn't necessary mean conflict right?
Again ... where is the differences?
If the difference is in your mind, then it has nothing to do with Taoism or Buddhism.
If the differences is in the philosophy, then spit it out and we will iron it out for you.
But if you say there is difference but never say what is the difference, what are you expecting us to do? Believe you blindly?
Like what Admiral said earlier, Toaism have some concept which it couldn't fuillfill, namely, it couldn't explain to its followers what happens to a person after his death and so on. Buddhism came and fil that blank with concept like Rebirth, judgement, Karma etc and each fill the people's needs and question.
Both Toa and Buddhism is like Yin and Yang in the Symbol, both are separate and some concept will not mix BUT both are needed to harmonize each other perfectly.
Like I said before, IF that is not action of God to guide the people, I don't know what is. |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 17-7-2004 08:43:
by ariyamusafir
Oh sorry sorry, by the way, there is no conflict as time has pass by whereby people mix taoism with Buddhism. By the way, I didn't say there is conflict, only have difference ...
As I said, I have little knowledge about Taoism which might also be wrong. What I know is that (which I might be wrong) that Taoism believe in reincarnation according to the definition in the quote below. In Buddhism, there is NO one almighty god which lives forever. All devas, gods and all beings will one day die. Does Taoism believe that too? Doesn't Taoism believe that there is one or more gods that lives forever, governing the affairs of the universe?
The only way to escape from death is not to come again to birth and that is to attain Nibbana. Also, those who die will REBORN, not REincarnate as I have post in the Q & A on Buddhism, about the two different meanings.
Q: Does Buddhism teach reincarnation?
A: Reincarnation is not a teaching of the Buddha. In Buddhism the teaching is of rebirth, not of reincarnation.
Q: What is the difference between reincarnation and rebirth?
A: The reincarnation idea is to believe in a soul or a being, separate from the body. At the death of the physical body, this soul is said to move into another state and then enter a womb to be born again.
Rebirth is different and can be explained in this way. Take away the notion of a soul or a being living inside the body; take away all ideas of self existing either inside or outside the body. Also take away notions of past, present and future; in fact take away all notions of time. Now, without reference to time and self, there can be no before or after, no beginning or ending, no birth or death, no coming or going. Yet there is life! Rebirth is the experience of life in the moment, without birth, without death; it is the experience of life which is neither eternal nor subject to annihilation.
As I have mentioned earlier, The Buddha teaches one to be free from attachment, lust, hate, anger, desire, craving, passion. The main final goal is not to be reborn as a god/deva though that can be achieved, but to attain Nibbana. Is that what Taoism teach? Is that the final goal of Taoism? The buddha thought as that striving should be done by ourselves, the Tathagatas, Buddhas are only teachers.
So, if in Taoism, sorry for not much knowledge about it, believes that human will reincarnate according to the terms mentioned in the quote, thus, there is differences. If not, then I have no more to say as I am not Taoist.
[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 17-7-2004 at 12:35 PM ] |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 16-7-2004 10:33:
by ariyamusafir
Sorry but I have made some edits in my previous posts. By the way, the buddha's teachings is the four noble truths and the final goal is to attain Nibanna.
You forgot ...
The four Noble Truth:
Sorrow
The Cause of Sorrow,
The transcending of sorrow
The Noble Eightfold Path which leads to the Cessation of Sorrow.
I did not forget about the Noble Eightfold Path As you can see it that I mentioned the four noble truth. |
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by ariyamusafir
The four Noble Truth:
Sorrow
The Cause of Sorrow,
The transcending of sorrow
The Noble Eightfold Path which leads to the Cessation of Sorrow.
I did not forget about the Noble Eightfold Path As you can see it that I mentioned the four noble truth.
Sigh ... ;)
You know ... you remind me of a story of two boys ... 
Once a upon a time, in mountain regions of Nepal, there was this two boys who were born in two different families. Both of their families were poverty stricken so the family send them to the monastery to become monks. Both boys accepted their fate and settle into monastery life.
One of the two boys were very different between one another. The younger one were very keen in reading sutras and memorizing it. He attended all the classes and become a favorite to his teachers. He never ask questions which is too hard for the teachers to answer and always refer to some sutra whenever he wanted to find answers.
That boy also dislike the idea of going out into the World where normal people lived. He viewed the World as something dirty and to be avoided and rather live his life in solitude of monastery, thinking that such practise will bring him Enlightnment.
The other boy, the elder one were opposite of this characteristics. He dislike attending the classes and never serious about reading or memorizing anything related to Sutra. He was disliked by the teachers because of what they saw as lazy but the odd thing was, the elders of the monastery likes him.
The elder boy always ask questions which was complicated and sometimes, even the teachers cannot answer, for this, he wasn't like much. The elders in the monastery loves to chat with him, and he spend a great time talking with this elder folks, rather than studying or playing with the other children.
Another thing which made him differ from the younger one is the approach the elder boy has about the World. He LOVES everything about it. He loves to stare at the blue sky, the clouds, the green patches of grass, the beautiful mountains and the freezing but refreshing river that flows from the Himalaya. He loves talking with regular people who come to pay homage to the Buddha and he loves to discover more things in the World outside. But unfortunately, he could not go out for it is strict rule of the monastery.
Years passed, the young boy become more containt in staying inside the monastery and the elder boy more containt in exploring the World. Because of the young one's ability to memorize sutras, he was always asked to go to serve others outside, and such tasks always disliked by him.
The elder boy on the other hand were told to stay put inside the monastery because he didn't know much about Sutras and the teachers feared that he will disgrace the Buddhist teaching by speaking of the wrong message to others.
Years of passed and finally, the two boys become old men. One day, they have sense that Death was coming for them and they decided to have a small talk before dying. Both sat down in the Main Hall one night, accompanied by the statue of Buddha and a small oil lamp. They talk for the first time like friends about a lot of things.
The conversation comes to Enlightment and both couldn't help but to wonder why they couldn't find Enlightnment despite of putting a lot of effects into it. Both argued that their approach were the best approach and both countered each others.
Finally, the elder one gave a surprising proposal. He proposed that either of them knows which is better to seek Enlightment - become monk and hide in the temple OR become a monk but think of worldly things. It is obvious to them that they were both living a life which they have no interest in living - the younger one force to go out and face the world he despised and the elder one become like a prisoner in a cell, with his mind wondering about the World outside.
The elder proposed that in their next lifetime, both will choose their own life in the World - whether as a Monk OR as a commoner who will live like a monk and see WHO among them will reach Enlightnment first. The younger one agreed and told him that before they will reach Enlightnment, they are too meet each other for one last time.
Agreeing to it, they finally departed and went their own ways, even in Death.
Hmph ... don't know WHY, I remember that story everytime I debate with you on something about Buddhism, Ariya. ;) |
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Originally posted by Sephiroth at 19-7-2004 10:20:
by ariyamusafir
The four Noble Truth:
Sorrow
The Cause of Sorrow,
The transcending of sorrow
The Noble Eightfold Path which leads to the Cessation of Sorrow.
I did not forget about ...
I think you misunderstood me again. First of all, that was in reply to your another post that state that I forgotten about Eightfold Noble path.
Another thing is that enlightenment, to attain Nibbana, we have to strive by our own effort and meditate. Sutta are sayings of the buddha, which we can read, and follow so that we may follow the path. However, we must strive via own effort to achive Nibbana. That is what I mean. However, as this board was created with the intention of sharing knowledge, and also, for some such as me, do not have certain text, can share text and knowledge!!!! So, it is usual to post sutta and dhamma text together with Buddhist articles by monks or laymen. Since many of us if not all, icluding me, are still far from perfect, we are not qualified to teach. So, to share knowledge, we get articles to support our comment or our post. If not, how do others know that is about Budhism???
Alright, let us not quarrel over this and post on the related topic. Have a nice day |
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Vijaya This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Wong Onn Yong at 11-7-2004 04:29 PM:
Pure Land Buddhism still available in Thailand, Myanmar and Sri Lanka, right isn't it? Sorry if i'm giving wrong confirm!
Have a nice day!
Pure land school is a chinese mahayana school and Thailland,Sri Lanka are Theravadian. |
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Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 14-7-2004 03:01 PM:
What conflicting philosophy are you talking about? After all both are likely to return to the same source!
Taoism to become immortal 成仙﹐ Buddhism to become enlightened person or Saint. 成聖成佛。 |
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Originally posted by alpha at 31-3-2005 00:45:
Taoism to become immortal 成仙﹐ Buddhism to become enlightened person or Saint. 成聖成佛。
Taoism and Buddhism are different. Devas or deities will one day die too. |
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http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/snapshot02.htm
Differences between theravada and mahayana Buddhism.
No doubt there were no different vehicle during Buddha time, the different schools are human-made at a latter time due to differences in interpretating Buddha teaching, above are the differences.
Note from moderator: Bonus credits given!
[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 31-3-2005 at 01:51 AM ] |
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However, the fundamental core teachings are not different. |
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Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 31-3-2005 01:19 AM:
However, the fundamental core teachings are not different.
Yes.......... |
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Originally posted by alpha at 31-3-2005 01:25:
Yes..........
alpha... have you read the Pen Potraits 93 eminent Disciples of the Buddha on the very top of this board? |
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Post time 16-7-2004 01:16 AM
Author
