[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Png_Prince

Was Ayesha really 6 years old when she married Muhammad?

A few comments about Muhammad抯 marriages are in order. Muhammad married his first wife, Khadijah, several years before his announcement as a prophet of Islam.  Khadijah was a reasonably well-to-do woman of Makkah and was 15 years his senior.  Muhammad was 25 and Khadijah was 40 at the time of their marriage. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death.  Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah.  It is thus important to note here that Muhammad抯 twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man抯 piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires. In 620-621 A.D, he and his devout companions migrated from Makkah to Medina. Then a couple of years later, he married Ayesha, a daughter of his closest companion, Abu Bakr, in the 3rd Hijrah (Islamic calendar--623-24 A.D).  This information coming from diverse historical and Hadith sources is widely agreed upon and therefore can be, a priori, considered authentic.  Based on this information, and a host of other related bits and pieces detailed below, it can be shown that Ayesha could have been at least 16-19 of age at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (pbuh).  The following is the detail of the analysis of these historical and Hadith accounts.

1. Several books of Hadith (Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, Abu Dawood, among others) and Islamic history (Tabari, among others) report that Ayesha was married to the Prophet at 6 but her marriage was not consummated until she was 9.  Although, this information is widely quoted and found in many Hadith and history books, it must be noted that most of this information has come from a single person, Hisham bin Urwah, who is the last narrator of this Hadith Isnaad (chain of narration) on the authority of his father.  Thus, this Hadith is primarily a single Hadith.  Some other narratives mention the same Hadith but their narration has been found weak and unacceptable. In general, a Hadith has more credibility if it is narrated by more people independently from diverse chains of narrators.  In this case, there is basically only one source.

2. Despite the abundance of information available during the 71 years that Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina, it is rather odd that that no one else梟ot even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas---reported Ayesha抯 age from Hisham in Medina.  Furthermore, all the narrators of this Hadith were Iraqis.  Hisham is reported to have moved to Iraq in his later years. An extensive list of biographical sketches of all narrators including these Iraqis is available in some books.

3. Yaqub ibn Shaibah is reported to have said, 搉arratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq".  Malik ibn Anas (d. 795), a student of Hisham in fact discredited all narratives of Hisham that were reported through people of Iraq.
(Tehzibu'l-tehzib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), vol 11, pg 48 - 51).

4. It is reported that Hisham bin Urwah抯 memory suffered in his later years to the extent that some of the traditions reported from Hisham bin Urwah could not be trusted for authenticity.
(Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, by Al-Zahbi , Arabic, a book on the life sketches of the narrators of the Hadith, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301).

5. Even though Ayesha is reported to have been born about eight years before Hijrah (around 614 A.D.), one can find another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a 憏oung girl

Png_Prince

12. A famous Sunni imam, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, reports in His Musnad, that after the death of Khadijah, Khaulah came to the Prophet (pbuh) and advised him to marry again.  She had two propositions for the Prophet:  Either Muhammad could marry a virgin (bikr), or he could go for woman who had already been married (thayyib)". Khaulah named Ayesha for a virgin (bikr). It is common knowledge that the term bikr in the Arabic language refers to a well formed lady and not to a 9 year old, playful, immature lass.  If she were nine, the word used by Khaulah would have been jariyah and not bikr.
(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

13. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad抯 daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah  was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55.  That makes Aysha at least 15-16 years of age.
(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh,1978)

Finally, it must be pointed out that Ayesha抯 age at the time of her marriage has never been an issue.  If it were, his enemies must have picked up on this issue as they did to him on some other issues. Also, the reader must note that none of these Hadith reports concerning Ayesha抯 controversial age of marriage with the Prophet goes back to the Prophet himself.  In other words, it is not the Prophet himself who said Ayesha was 6 or 9.  These reports came from a single individual and the Iraqis reported from him when he grew old and his memory started failing.

Debmey

Was Ayesha really 6 years old when she married Muhammad?

Yes sir. Absolutely.

(1) `A磇sha Bint Abu Bakr was Prophet Muhammad's third wife. `A磇sha herself narrated, "The Messenger of God married me in Shawwal in the tenth year after of his prophet hood, three years before the Migration as I was six years old. I was nine years old when he consummated the marriage with me.

A few comments about Muhammad抯 marriages are in order. Muhammad married his first wife, Khadijah, several years before his announcement as a prophet of Islam.  Khadijah was a reasonably well-to-do woman of Makkah and was 15 years his senior.  Muhammad was 25 and Khadijah was 40 at the time of their marriage. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death.  Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah.  It is thus important to note here that Muhammad抯 twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man抯 piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires. In 620-621 A.D, he and his devout companions migrated from Makkah to Medina. Then a couple of years later, he married Ayesha, a daughter of his closest companion, Abu Bakr, in the 3rd Hijrah (Islamic calendar--623-24 A.D).  This information coming from diverse historical and Hadith sources is widely agreed upon and therefore can be, a priori, considered authentic.  Based on this information, and a host of other related bits and pieces detailed below, it can be shown that Ayesha could have been at least 16-19 of age at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (pbuh).  The following is the detail of the analysis of these historical and Hadith accounts.

The answer is very very simple. Mohd obviously married khatijah for her wealth. After she died, once he had her wealth, he turned loose and married and rape countless women.
If Mohd was so faithful, why wasn't he consistent even after khatijah died? Why be unfaithful to all his wives?  

1. Several books of Hadith (Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, Abu Dawood, among others) and Islamic history (Tabari, among others) report that Ayesha was married to the Prophet at 6 but her marriage was not consummated until she was 9.  Although, this information is widely quoted and found in many Hadith and history books, it must be noted that most of this information has come from a single person, Hisham bin Urwah, who is the last narrator of this Hadith Isnaad (chain of narration) on the authority of his father.  Thus, this Hadith is primarily a single Hadith.  Some other narratives mention the same Hadith but their narration has been found weak and unacceptable. In general, a Hadith has more credibility if it is narrated by more people independently from diverse chains of narrators.  In this case, there is basically only one source.

Same goes for most hadiths isn't it? Why do you think al Bukhari accept them? You think you are smarter than Bukhari?

2. Despite the abundance of information available during the 71 years that Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina, it is rather odd that that no one else梟ot even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas---reported Ayesha抯 age from Hisham in Medina.  Furthermore, all the narrators of this Hadith were Iraqis.  Hisham is reported to have moved to Iraq in his later years. An extensive list of biographical sketches of all narrators including these Iraqis is available in some books.

Don't you think its even more odd that no other people ever disputed Hisham's narration? If what Hisham said was untrue why didn't his contemporaries oppose or correct him when he wrote it? How did his narration survive the scrutiny of his contemporaries?  

3. Yaqub ibn Shaibah is reported to have said, 搉arratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq".  Malik ibn Anas (d. 795), a student of Hisham in fact discredited all narratives of Hisham that were reported through people of Iraq.
(Tehzibu'l-tehzib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), vol 11, pg 48 - 51).

Really? Link please.
If it wasn't reliable, a whole load of hadiths need to be thrown out from islam. The very fact that bukhari recorded them shows they were indeed authentic.

4. It is reported that Hisham bin Urwah抯 memory suffered in his later years to the extent that some of the traditions reported from Hisham bin Urwah could not be trusted for authenticity.
(Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, by Al-Zahbi , Arabic, a book on the life sketches of the narrators of the Hadith, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301).

Again where is the source? How do we verify your source?
Can it be clearer than this?


(1) `A磇sha Bint Abu Bakr was Prophet Muhammad's third wife. `A磇sha herself narrated, "The Messenger of God married me in Shawwal in the tenth year after of his prophet hood, three years before the Migration as I was six years old. I was nine years old when he consummated the marriage with me.



[quote]

Debmey

5. Even though Ayesha is reported to have been born about eight years before Hijrah (around 614 A.D.), one can find another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a 憏oung girl

Png_Prince

Yes sir. Absolutely.

What makes u so confident about aisya's age ? U havent proved that.

The answer is very very simple. Mohd obviously married khatijah for her wealth. After she died, once he had her wealth, he turned loose and married and rape countless women.
If Mohd was so faithful, why wasn't he consistent even after khatijah died? Why be unfaithful to all his wives?  

Well, ur personal opinion is not my problem. Show me the proof that Prophet Muhammad married khatijah for her wealth ? Can show any evidence ? Is getting married after ur wife died means unfaithful to you ?   Then ur brain suffering from serious damage here. Proof it !!

Same goes for most hadiths isn't it? Why do you think al Bukhari accept them? You think you are smarter than Bukhari?

Bukhari is not God, human can make these simple mistakes. Do you say Bukhari is greater than God ? What makes u believe so much in Bukhari ? Let me quote something here.

2 different reporters make these statement:-

1) Debmey suffered brain damage at 2.20am
2) Debmey suffered brain damage at 2.25am

Now tell me is any of these statements not valid just becoz the time difference ? If got doubt about at which time Debmey got brain damage, which one u will say right ? Which one is authentic ? How much the time factor damage the whole meaning of the sentence ? Hope u could explain.

Don't you think its even more odd that no other people ever disputed Hisham's narration? If what Hisham said was untrue why didn't his contemporaries oppose or correct him when he wrote it? How did his narration survive the scrutiny of his contemporaries?  

The answer is above, if u could answer my question, then thats the answer.

Really? Link please.
If it wasn't reliable, a whole load of hadiths need to be thrown out from islam. The very fact that bukhari recorded them shows they were indeed authentic

Are u blind ? What u see from the red colour highlight ? Thats the reference. If u easily could find Bukhari's hadith, then i wonder why its difficult for you to find these hadiths moreover i have already given you the reference.

Again where is the source? How do we verify your source?
Can it be clearer than this?

I have already given u the reference for you to check. If u could easily get Bukhari's hadith, then i wonder why u couldnt find these.

Debmey

What makes u so confident about aisya's age ? U havent proved that.

I am and I did.
`A磇sha Bint Abu Bakr was Prophet Muhammad's third wife. `A磇sha herself narrated, "The Messenger of God married me in Shawwal in the tenth year after of his prophet hood, three years before the Migration as I was six years old. I was nine years old when he consummated the marriage with me.

QUOTE:
The answer is very very simple. Mohd obviously married khatijah for her wealth. After she died, once he had her wealth, he turned loose and married and rape countless women.
If Mohd was so faithful, why wasn't he consistent even after khatijah died? Why be unfaithful to all his wives?  


Well, ur personal opinion is not my problem. Show me the proof that Prophet Muhammad married khatijah for her wealth ? Can show any evidence ? Is getting married after ur wife died means unfaithful to you ?   Then ur brain suffering from serious damage here. Proof it !!

in that case your personal opinion don't count too mr.bigot.
And you have no replies to those rebuttal questions.

QUOTE:
Same goes for most hadiths isn't it? Why do you think al Bukhari accept them? You think you are smarter than Bukhari?



Bukhari is not God, human can make these simple mistakes. Do you say Bukhari is greater than God ? What makes u believe so much in Bukhari ? Let me quote something here.

Your alledged contradictions obviously don't exist. Otherwise the hadiths would have been rejected long ago. You have not shown me any such movement among muslims.







2 different reporters make these statement:-

1) Debmey suffered brain damage at 2.20am
2) Debmey suffered brain damage at 2.25am

Now tell me is any of these statements not valid just becoz the time difference ? If got doubt about at which time Debmey got brain damage, which one u will say right ? Which one is authentic ? How much the time factor damage the whole meaning of the sentence ? Hope u could explain.
(1) `A磇sha Bint Abu Bakr was Prophet Muhammad's third wife. `A磇sha herself narrated, "The Messenger of God married me in Shawwal in the tenth year after of his prophet hood, three years before the Migration as I was six years old. I was nine years old when he consummated the marriage with me.
  
(2) Ibn Hisham narrated that, "Muhammad (pbuh) married Aisha Bint Abu Bakr when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage with her when they were in Medina when she was nine years old (Sahih Hadiths)".
  
(3) Another Sahih Bukhari Hadith: Hazrat Aisha (RA) narrated, " when Prophet (pbuh) married me I was only six year old at that time. After that we traveled to Medina where I got sick and my hairs were shed due to fever. After I got rid of my sickness my hairs were grown back again. One day while I was playing with my friends in a swing-sets (dolnas) I was called on my mother and when I reached to her she (Mother) held my hand and took me to the door. At that time I was breathing rapidly because I was still tired of swinging with my friends. And I did not understand why I was called here. Then , my mother took me to a room where I saw three helping maids (ansar) who immediately decorated me and handed me over to the Prophet (pbuh), and they left the room. At that time I was only nine- year old. Prophet (pbuh) consummated our marriage that day".

QUOTE:
Don't you think its even more odd that no other people ever disputed Hisham's narration? If what Hisham said was untrue why didn't his contemporaries oppose or correct him when he wrote it? How did his narration survive the scrutiny of his contemporaries?  



The answer is above, if u could answer my question, then thats the answer.

Nope, all the hadiths point to the paedophilia of Mohd.
And you have yet to explain why muslism never removed those alledged contradictions after 1000 years.

QUOTE:

Really? Link please.
If it wasn't reliable, a whole load of hadiths need to be thrown out from islam. The very fact that bukhari recorded them shows they were indeed authentic

Are u blind ? What u see from the red colour highlight ? Thats the reference. If u easily could find Bukhari's hadith, then i wonder why its difficult for you to find these hadiths moreover i have already given you the reference.

Is there a link to a source where we can verify?

QUOTE:
Again where is the source? How do we verify your source?
Can it be clearer than this?



I have already given u the reference for you to check. If u could easily get Bukhari's hadith, then i wonder why u couldnt find these.

give me a link. where is the link?

Png_Prince

Haha, u simply couldnt answer my queries, u just ask for link. My simple question is if u simply can find Bukhari's hadith, then why so difficult to get these hadith as i have already given you the volume number and reference ?

Your personal opinion doesnt count here Debmey. Show proof not bla bla bla.

Debmey

You did make any queries, you made baseless assumptions that can never be verified, not even by you. ahahahahahahaha.....................
Honestly fuzzy, do you realise how foolish you are?

Fuzzman

C'mon Debmey stop the straying and the monstrous cuts & pastes! So how old do you think Aishah was when she was engaged to JUBAIR IBNI MUT'IM her first true suitor? One year old? Three years old?

I perceive you to be the ALL KNOWING in this forum. Let us all hear your answer on this aight?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

What does it matter fuzzy? All we need to know is, mohd had sex with aisha when she was only 9 years ols as recorded in the haidths, no amount of vague and dishonest distractions on yourt part for allah can change that.

peace

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-6-2007 08:59 AM
What does it matter fuzzy? All we need to know is, mohd had sex with aisha when she was only 9 years ols as recorded in the haidths, no amount of vague and dishonest distractions on yourt part fo ...

Dumbney, why u so afraid to talk about Jubair here ? Shivering huh ? U couldnt prove aisya's age and you look so desparate here. Muahahahaa :lol :lol :lol

Debmey

Are you afraid to talk about the hadiths that showed mohd had sex with a 9 year old aisha?
Why shld we be distracted by something irrelevant?

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-6-2007 10:17 AM
Are you afraid to talk about the hadiths that showed mohd had sex with a 9 year old aisha?
Why shld we be distracted by something irrelevant?

What u mean by irrelevant ? Tell me what u know about Jubair ? Then we talk about the relevancy. Ready ?

Debmey

Sex was between mohd and a 9 year old aisha, you tell me what Jubair has to do with it.

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-6-2007 10:48 AM
Sex was between mohd and a 9 year old aisha, you tell me what Jubair has to do with it.

Why u get so paranoid abt sex here. The hadith dont even mentioned sex there. Tell me what u know abt Jubair. You know nothing ?

Debmey

Mohd was all about sex, that why he married so many wives and raped so many captive women.
Islam is all about sex, thats why women needs to bnr wrapped up to be 'protected' like an object and the destiny of muslims is alledgedly prostitutes in heaven supplied by allah.

Its not me fuzzy, its mohd who did and taught all this. Islam is obsessed with sex, that is the whole problem fuzzy! Thats why you are so perverted.

[ Last edited by  Debmey at 26-6-2007 11:18 AM ]

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-6-2007 11:13 AM
Mohd was all about sex, that why he married so many wives and raped so many captive women.
Islam is all about sex, thats why women needs to bnr wrapped up to be 'protected' like an object and the destiny of muslims is alledgedly prostitutes in heaven supplied by allah.

Its not me fuzzy, its mohd who did and taught all this. Islam is obsessed with sex, that is the whole problem fuzzy! Thats why you are so perverted.

Haha, seems like u r venting ur frustration here. Find a wall and bang urself Debmey. After cool down, then can u tell me what u know about Jubair ?

Ur Bible is full of erotic sexual fantasies novels. What u say about that ?   Can u show something similar in Quran ?
U want me to show you the erotic fantasies found in Bible ? Ur pathetic religion teach u sex sex sex and all kind of perverts.
U r so ashamed to even reveal ur sect in Christianity. Now tell me who is ashamed? Me or you ? ;)

Debmey

Me frus? No sir, you are the one who seems frus.
Nothing you tried ever worked. No matter what methods you used or nicks you invented, they all got exposed and mohd is still a filthy paedophile.

cheers

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 26-6-2007 12:35 PM
Me frus? No sir, you are the one who seems frus.
Nothing you tried ever worked. No matter what methods you used or nicks you invented, they all got exposed and mohd is still a filthy paedophile ...

Its funny to say im Fuzzman. Muahahaha. Ur brain suffering from paranoid. U still havent tell me what u know about Jubair. Im waiting. Or u want me to refresh ur mind about sexual fantasies in ur Bible ?

Debmey

Sex was between Mohd and 9 year old aisha, what was Jubair part in all this? Please explain.