[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Png_Prince

Debmey, u failed to show proof beyond doubt here. I have shown you conflicting hadiths regarding aisya's age. You cant refute that.

Debmey stucked. cheers

Debmey

And I have rebutted your hadiths contradiction claims and you still have no replies to it.

Here's what is clear and you have no answers to.

This is what real evidence look like.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Oreng

Originally posted by <i>Debmey</i> at 6-6-2007 10:53 AM<br />
You are teh stupid one sir, its consumation of a marriage isn't sex, what is?

Look at the hadiths that you posted and other historical facts : They got married (solemnised) when Aishah was 6 but they were not living together. Only when Aishah was 9 years old that Aishah living together in the same house with the Prophet. Consummation here refers to 'living together in the same house'. Nothing explicit about sex.

Png_Prince

Was Ayesha really 6 years old when she married Muhammad?

A few comments about Muhammad抯 marriages are in order. Muhammad married his first wife, Khadijah, several years before his announcement as a prophet of Islam.  Khadijah was a reasonably well-to-do woman of Makkah and was 15 years his senior.  Muhammad was 25 and Khadijah was 40 at the time of their marriage. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death.  Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah.  It is thus important to note here that Muhammad抯 twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man抯 piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires. In 620-621 A.D, he and his devout companions migrated from Makkah to Medina. Then a couple of years later, he married Ayesha, a daughter of his closest companion, Abu Bakr, in the 3rd Hijrah (Islamic calendar--623-24 A.D).  This information coming from diverse historical and Hadith sources is widely agreed upon and therefore can be, a priori, considered authentic.  Based on this information, and a host of other related bits and pieces detailed below, it can be shown that Ayesha could have been at least 16-19 of age at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (pbuh).  The following is the detail of the analysis of these historical and Hadith accounts.

1. Several books of Hadith (Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, Abu Dawood, among others) and Islamic history (Tabari, among others) report that Ayesha was married to the Prophet at 6 but her marriage was not consummated until she was 9.  Although, this information is widely quoted and found in many Hadith and history books, it must be noted that most of this information has come from a single person, Hisham bin Urwah, who is the last narrator of this Hadith Isnaad (chain of narration) on the authority of his father.  Thus, this Hadith is primarily a single Hadith.  Some other narratives mention the same Hadith but their narration has been found weak and unacceptable. In general, a Hadith has more credibility if it is narrated by more people independently from diverse chains of narrators.  In this case, there is basically only one source.

2. Despite the abundance of information available during the 71 years that Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina, it is rather odd that that no one else梟ot even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas---reported Ayesha抯 age from Hisham in Medina.  Furthermore, all the narrators of this Hadith were Iraqis.  Hisham is reported to have moved to Iraq in his later years. An extensive list of biographical sketches of all narrators including these Iraqis is available in some books.

3. Yaqub ibn Shaibah is reported to have said, 搉arratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq".  Malik ibn Anas (d. 795), a student of Hisham in fact discredited all narratives of Hisham that were reported through people of Iraq.
(Tehzibu'l-tehzib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), vol 11, pg 48 - 51).

4. It is reported that Hisham bin Urwah抯 memory suffered in his later years to the extent that some of the traditions reported from Hisham bin Urwah could not be trusted for authenticity.
(Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, by Al-Zahbi , Arabic, a book on the life sketches of the narrators of the Hadith, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301).

5. Even though Ayesha is reported to have been born about eight years before Hijrah (around 614 A.D.), one can find another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a 憏oung girl

Png_Prince

12. A famous Sunni imam, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, reports in His Musnad, that after the death of Khadijah, Khaulah came to the Prophet (pbuh) and advised him to marry again.  She had two propositions for the Prophet:  Either Muhammad could marry a virgin (bikr), or he could go for woman who had already been married (thayyib)". Khaulah named Ayesha for a virgin (bikr). It is common knowledge that the term bikr in the Arabic language refers to a well formed lady and not to a 9 year old, playful, immature lass.  If she were nine, the word used by Khaulah would have been jariyah and not bikr.
(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

13. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad抯 daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah  was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55.  That makes Aysha at least 15-16 years of age.
(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh,1978)

Finally, it must be pointed out that Ayesha抯 age at the time of her marriage has never been an issue.  If it were, his enemies must have picked up on this issue as they did to him on some other issues. Also, the reader must note that none of these Hadith reports concerning Ayesha抯 controversial age of marriage with the Prophet goes back to the Prophet himself.  In other words, it is not the Prophet himself who said Ayesha was 6 or 9.  These reports came from a single individual and the Iraqis reported from him when he grew old and his memory started failing.

Debmey

I think what you have presented is a hoax. There are no verifiable referneces to all of those claims of yours.
None of them are based on primary evidence at all. They are all based on cliams only.

This is what real evidence look like.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

BTW, thanks for keeping up teh thread, I couldn't have done it w/o you sir.

cheers

Png_Prince

Was Ayesha really 6 years old when she married Muhammad?

A few comments about Muhammad抯 marriages are in order. Muhammad married his first wife, Khadijah, several years before his announcement as a prophet of Islam.  Khadijah was a reasonably well-to-do woman of Makkah and was 15 years his senior.  Muhammad was 25 and Khadijah was 40 at the time of their marriage. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death.  Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah.  It is thus important to note here that Muhammad抯 twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man抯 piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires. In 620-621 A.D, he and his devout companions migrated from Makkah to Medina. Then a couple of years later, he married Ayesha, a daughter of his closest companion, Abu Bakr, in the 3rd Hijrah (Islamic calendar--623-24 A.D).  This information coming from diverse historical and Hadith sources is widely agreed upon and therefore can be, a priori, considered authentic.  Based on this information, and a host of other related bits and pieces detailed below, it can be shown that Ayesha could have been at least 16-19 of age at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (pbuh).  The following is the detail of the analysis of these historical and Hadith accounts.

1. Several books of Hadith (Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, Abu Dawood, among others) and Islamic history (Tabari, among others) report that Ayesha was married to the Prophet at 6 but her marriage was not consummated until she was 9.  Although, this information is widely quoted and found in many Hadith and history books, it must be noted that most of this information has come from a single person, Hisham bin Urwah, who is the last narrator of this Hadith Isnaad (chain of narration) on the authority of his father.  Thus, this Hadith is primarily a single Hadith.  Some other narratives mention the same Hadith but their narration has been found weak and unacceptable. In general, a Hadith has more credibility if it is narrated by more people independently from diverse chains of narrators.  In this case, there is basically only one source.

2. Despite the abundance of information available during the 71 years that Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina, it is rather odd that that no one else梟ot even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas---reported Ayesha抯 age from Hisham in Medina.  Furthermore, all the narrators of this Hadith were Iraqis.  Hisham is reported to have moved to Iraq in his later years. An extensive list of biographical sketches of all narrators including these Iraqis is available in some books.

3. Yaqub ibn Shaibah is reported to have said, 搉arratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq".  Malik ibn Anas (d. 795), a student of Hisham in fact discredited all narratives of Hisham that were reported through people of Iraq.
(Tehzibu'l-tehzib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), vol 11, pg 48 - 51).

4. It is reported that Hisham bin Urwah抯 memory suffered in his later years to the extent that some of the traditions reported from Hisham bin Urwah could not be trusted for authenticity.
(Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, by Al-Zahbi , Arabic, a book on the life sketches of the narrators of the Hadith, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301).

5. Even though Ayesha is reported to have been born about eight years before Hijrah (around 614 A.D.), one can find another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a 憏oung girl

Png_Prince

12. A famous Sunni imam, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, reports in His Musnad, that after the death of Khadijah, Khaulah came to the Prophet (pbuh) and advised him to marry again.  She had two propositions for the Prophet:  Either Muhammad could marry a virgin (bikr), or he could go for woman who had already been married (thayyib)". Khaulah named Ayesha for a virgin (bikr). It is common knowledge that the term bikr in the Arabic language refers to a well formed lady and not to a 9 year old, playful, immature lass.  If she were nine, the word used by Khaulah would have been jariyah and not bikr.
(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

13. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad抯 daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah  was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55.  That makes Aysha at least 15-16 years of age.
(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh,1978)

Finally, it must be pointed out that Ayesha抯 age at the time of her marriage has never been an issue.  If it were, his enemies must have picked up on this issue as they did to him on some other issues. Also, the reader must note that none of these Hadith reports concerning Ayesha抯 controversial age of marriage with the Prophet goes back to the Prophet himself.  In other words, it is not the Prophet himself who said Ayesha was 6 or 9.  These reports came from a single individual and the Iraqis reported from him when he grew old and his memory started failing.

Debmey

I think what you have presented is a hoax. There are no verifiable referneces to all of those claims of yours.
None of them are based on primary evidence at all. They are all based on cliams only.

This is what real evidence look like.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

BTW, thanks for keeping up teh thread, I couldn't have done it w/o you sir.

cheers

Png_Prince

Was Ayesha really 6 years old when she married Muhammad?

A few comments about Muhammad抯 marriages are in order. Muhammad married his first wife, Khadijah, several years before his announcement as a prophet of Islam.  Khadijah was a reasonably well-to-do woman of Makkah and was 15 years his senior.  Muhammad was 25 and Khadijah was 40 at the time of their marriage. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death.  Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah.  It is thus important to note here that Muhammad抯 twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man抯 piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires. In 620-621 A.D, he and his devout companions migrated from Makkah to Medina. Then a couple of years later, he married Ayesha, a daughter of his closest companion, Abu Bakr, in the 3rd Hijrah (Islamic calendar--623-24 A.D).  This information coming from diverse historical and Hadith sources is widely agreed upon and therefore can be, a priori, considered authentic.  Based on this information, and a host of other related bits and pieces detailed below, it can be shown that Ayesha could have been at least 16-19 of age at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (pbuh).  The following is the detail of the analysis of these historical and Hadith accounts.

1. Several books of Hadith (Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, Abu Dawood, among others) and Islamic history (Tabari, among others) report that Ayesha was married to the Prophet at 6 but her marriage was not consummated until she was 9.  Although, this information is widely quoted and found in many Hadith and history books, it must be noted that most of this information has come from a single person, Hisham bin Urwah, who is the last narrator of this Hadith Isnaad (chain of narration) on the authority of his father.  Thus, this Hadith is primarily a single Hadith.  Some other narratives mention the same Hadith but their narration has been found weak and unacceptable. In general, a Hadith has more credibility if it is narrated by more people independently from diverse chains of narrators.  In this case, there is basically only one source.

2. Despite the abundance of information available during the 71 years that Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina, it is rather odd that that no one else梟ot even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas---reported Ayesha抯 age from Hisham in Medina.  Furthermore, all the narrators of this Hadith were Iraqis.  Hisham is reported to have moved to Iraq in his later years. An extensive list of biographical sketches of all narrators including these Iraqis is available in some books.

3. Yaqub ibn Shaibah is reported to have said, 搉arratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq".  Malik ibn Anas (d. 795), a student of Hisham in fact discredited all narratives of Hisham that were reported through people of Iraq.
(Tehzibu'l-tehzib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), vol 11, pg 48 - 51).

4. It is reported that Hisham bin Urwah抯 memory suffered in his later years to the extent that some of the traditions reported from Hisham bin Urwah could not be trusted for authenticity.
(Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, by Al-Zahbi , Arabic, a book on the life sketches of the narrators of the Hadith, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301).

5. Even though Ayesha is reported to have been born about eight years before Hijrah (around 614 A.D.), one can find another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a 憏oung girl

Png_Prince

12. A famous Sunni imam, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, reports in His Musnad, that after the death of Khadijah, Khaulah came to the Prophet (pbuh) and advised him to marry again.  She had two propositions for the Prophet:  Either Muhammad could marry a virgin (bikr), or he could go for woman who had already been married (thayyib)". Khaulah named Ayesha for a virgin (bikr). It is common knowledge that the term bikr in the Arabic language refers to a well formed lady and not to a 9 year old, playful, immature lass.  If she were nine, the word used by Khaulah would have been jariyah and not bikr.
(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

13. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad抯 daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah  was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55.  That makes Aysha at least 15-16 years of age.
(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh,1978)

Finally, it must be pointed out that Ayesha抯 age at the time of her marriage has never been an issue.  If it were, his enemies must have picked up on this issue as they did to him on some other issues. Also, the reader must note that none of these Hadith reports concerning Ayesha抯 controversial age of marriage with the Prophet goes back to the Prophet himself.  In other words, it is not the Prophet himself who said Ayesha was 6 or 9.  These reports came from a single individual and the Iraqis reported from him when he grew old and his memory started failing.

Png_Prince

Thanks for constantly pushing up this thread Debmey. People can see how stucked you are here. U couldnt answer me. Btw u r so ashamed to tell ur sect here. Haha, thats so shameful. If u feel so ashamed to tell ur sect, then why dont u quit worship cross ??

are you going to let your 6 years old daughter marry to a man who is older than you?..i am sure none of any parents wanted to let it happen..why?..ask yourself..and give your own answer for that question...if Mohammad is the true prophet..why he should marry your 6 years old daughter (aishah)?.is it because he is a prophet?,.is it because the culture of where he live?.is it because God command him to do so?..nonsense!.poor you if you just let your 6 years old daughter get marry with someone grandfather..why muslim just shut up their mouth with this?.is it because by doubt about him it will cause you to live in hell?.God give us heart to seek Him.God give us brain to dig the truth..why your faith is so blind?..WHY?<img src="images/smilies/sad.gif" smilieid="2" border="0" alt="" /> im new here..i suggest you to log in in this website..www.faithfreedom.org..you'll see the TRUE FACE of Mohammad..thanks.God loves you like He did to me..take care..

[ Last edited by  erls at 6-6-2007 03:10 PM ]

kawasakininja

can u give the sources of that article??huuh

ussopp

even the name of the site is faithfreedom,, so no wonder...

it is not an article..it is from hadith itself..read through of it by yourself..

why dont you log in into it?..and click the debates button..be neutral in this but at the same time try to ask yourself..thanks..

Oreng

Abu Bakar RA allowed his daughter to get married. Why dont you respect his choice ? It is not a criminal offence. It is a subjective issue.

I believe you would be happy if your mother did not get married even at age of 99. For you marriage is a taboo.

BTW the age of Aishah at the time of marriage has been convincingly proven as not 6 yeas old but 16 years old.

sharfox

Why don't you just refer to the previous tread? We've discussed about this and you come in as  newbie to discuss this again? Take your time to read the previous post la. Somehow, I dun think you're that new anyway. New nickname - yes.

Debmey

The hadiths clearly stated aisha's age of marriage and sex intercourse in many verses.
What is there to deny?